Really struggling

[[Co...]]

Ok, so I'm down to 1.125mgs of clonazepam a day, once was on 24mgs a day, tapered 20 in 11 months was held for a while started tapering again in early 2023. 

 

This 5 year process is really getting old and I'm wanting relief. Having severe panic attacks all the time, just using the bus or in line at the grocery store. Even sitting in my NA meetings.

 

Chest always feels like I have someone standing on me and squeezing my heart at the same time. And I'm constantly thinking or worrying what's wrong with me. I'm having anxiety about having anxiety.

 

I really don't know how ppl do this all the way to 0. 

 

I haven't decreased in 2 months and I'm not leveling out (Although I never really do) if anything I'm feeling worse then when i dropped last, so bad I went to the hospital on the weekend thinking I messed up my lungs or something from vaping. After a chest xray and a hypoxia test the doc clued into how anxious i was (Although now when I get very anxious my heart rate plummets) and gave me a .5 MG Ativan. I didn't even really wanna take it but it gave me a few hours in 5 years of feeling somewhat normal again.  

 

I miss it so much. I've been clean off all illicit drugs and alcohol now just over 18 month's,  got my grey keytag last Sunday but holy hell do I want to drink or score some pills or something and not feel this anymore.  I'm just so tired of years in withdrawal of some level.

 

I just dunno how I'm gonna do the last 1.125mgs let alone stay at 1.125mgs without going insane or just wanting to quit life.

 

I need help. But my psychologist, dr and sponsor all want to help but I'm just always feeling terrible, I don't wanna go up, not even to 1.25mgs or 1.5mgs it takes me months to do those landmarks. I feel like I've screwed up my brain so much I'll never feel normal again without benzos. I mean 24mgs a day for a few years and on benzos pretty much my entire adult life. Can one ruin their gaba receptors so bad they'll never heal?

Edited April 12 by [Co...]

[[St...]]

I'm really sorry you are feeling like this and I wish you all the strength to keep fighting. You can do it! You have come so far already!

If I may, I want to ask you about the thing with your lungs.. Because I'm having those exact worries right now.

I'm feeling these weird pinching/stabbing pains around my chest and I'm afraid it's because I've been vaping and smoking too much.

Did you experience the same thing? What were your symptoms?

[[kn...]]

I’m tapering Diazepam(started at 60mg almost three years ago.) I have the same chest pressure you’ve mentioned. After a visit to the cardiologist for an oxygen check and heart eval they determined that I was fine. I’ve taken benzos for thirty years. The evidence on long term neurological damage is inconclusive. I just read two studies that said ‘no long term damage could be determined. ‘
I had a lengthy neurological exam and 2 brain scans that verified I was fine. You’ve taken  quite a load for a long time. I only took 4. Stick with your support folks. They sound great. You are a very brave man. Sorry, no magical advice. 

[[Br...]]

@[Co...] I'm so sorry you're struggling like this.  You've been pushing forward for a long time.  Looking back at some of your posts it looks like you've been through a lot over the past few years including quitting alcohol and a previous benzo withdrawal.  It's bound to take time for your CNS to stabilize. There are probably several factors in why your symptoms are so difficult.  But none of them mean that you won't recover.  It will take time and the best self care you can manage.

You may know about kindling, which is the body & brain's memory of previous withdrawals and is thought to lead to more severe withdrawal symptoms in subsequent withdrawals.  I think it's very likely this is a big factor for you. It may have helped you to taper more slowly but we know that even with slow tapering people can experience difficult symptoms.   As an individual gets down to lower doses near the end of the taper things can get rougher - you know this firsthand unfortunately.  We see a wide range of healing timelines here on BB.  Some of us have a rougher path with symptoms. Again, none of this means you won't heal.  

This is a very hard road.  We can feel incredibly discouraged and our benzo brains throw negative messages at us constantly on top of our symptoms.  I know we repeat this over and over but reading Success Stories is so important in helping sustain your hope.  I clung to them like a life raft when I was in the thick of awful symptoms.

[[Da...]]

8 hours ago, [[C...] said:

Ok, so I'm down to 1.125mgs of clonazepam a day, once was on 24mgs a day, tapered 20 in 11 months was held for a while started tapering again in early 2023. 

This 5 year process is really getting old and I'm wanting relief. Having severe panic attacks all the time, just using the bus or in line at the grocery store. Even sitting in my NA meetings.

Chest always feels like I have someone standing on me and squeezing my heart at the same time. And I'm constantly thinking or worrying what's wrong with me. I'm having anxiety about having anxiety.

I really don't know how ppl do this all the way to 0. 

I haven't decreased in 2 months and I'm not leveling out (Although I never really do) if anything I'm feeling worse then when i dropped last, so bad I went to the hospital on the weekend thinking I messed up my lungs or something from vaping. After a chest xray and a hypoxia test the doc clued into how anxious i was (Although now when I get very anxious my heart rate plummets) and gave me a .5 MG Ativan. I didn't even really wanna take it but it gave me a few hours in 5 years of feeling somewhat normal again.  

I miss it so much. I've been clean off all illicit drugs and alcohol now just over 18 month's,  got my grey keytag last Sunday but holy hell do I want to drink or score some pills or something and not feel this anymore.  I'm just so tired of years in withdrawal of some level.

I just dunno how I'm gonna do the last 1.125mgs let alone stay at 1.125mgs without going insane or just wanting to quit life.

I need help. But my psychologist, dr and sponsor all want to help but I'm just always feeling terrible, I don't wanna go up, not even to 1.25mgs or 1.5mgs it takes me months to do those landmarks. I feel like I've screwed up my brain so much I'll never feel normal again without benzos. I mean 24mgs a day for a few years and on benzos pretty much my entire adult life. Can one ruin their gaba receptors so bad they'll never heal?

Congratulations on being clean from alcohol and illicit drugs.  Have you considered that some of what you are feeling may be due to protracted withdrawals from that is well.  Congratulations on your taper so far.  Just to give you some perspective on how well you are actually doing...I am tapering from 2mg Clonazepam, after 20 years, and you just say on a bus gave me a panic attack.  I cannot leave the house or interact with people at all.  For me, I think you are doing great just being out and able to communicate with your sponsor, therapist, etc....I can't even talk on the phone.  I think you should give yourself a nice pat on the back for this - no matter how trivial it may seem.  Thinking of you.

[[mo...]]

2 hours ago, [[k...] said:

I’m tapering Diazepam(started at 60mg almost three years ago.) I have the same chest pressure you’ve mentioned. After a visit to the cardiologist for an oxygen check and heart eval they determined that I was fine. I’ve taken benzos for thirty years. The evidence on long term neurological damage is inconclusive. I just read two studies that said ‘no long term damage could be determined. ‘
I had a lengthy neurological exam and 2 brain scans that verified I was fine. You’ve taken  quite a load for a long time. I only took 4. Stick with your support folks. They sound great. You are a very brave man. Sorry, no magical advice. 

You say you started 60mg diazepam almost 3 years ago, yet have taken benzos for 30 years.  I have been prescribed benzos for 27 years.  It started with xanax in 1997 when I was experiencing panic attacks. The xanax caused depression for me - yet they convinced me that the depression was always there and that there was something wrong with ME  -  such as chemical imbalance...ugh.  Anyway, they tried over 25 different psych meds on me for the horrible depression. Meanwhile, in 2013, a doctor switched me from xanax to clonazepam. I was on 4mg until 2017.  An MD told me I had treatment-resistant depression and should consider ECT. I started tapering and learning more. I never accepted ECT. It has been off and on with the taper because of life stressors and family tragedies. Anyway, I am only down to 2.6mg. I recently found an nurse practitioner to help me and am using compounded liquid form of clonazepam, but now she wants me to cross over to diazepam. I am completely stressed out about switching. I am also on 10mg lexapro.  I do not want to cross over.  Is that why you are on diazepam?  Cross over?  If so, how did that go?  I just want to continue to reduce and taper off clonazepam.  I tried on valium last night with a the clonazepam PM dose basically cut in 1/2.  I think just the thought of it freaked me out.  No sleeep - although I had a stressful day yesterday.  I still have a lot of family responsibility and stressors in my life.  I just do not want to "try" another drug.  I have not heard from anyone having a good experience crossing over to diazepam from clonazepam.  Just checking with you.  I think I am going to tell the nurse practitioner no.  I do not want to do it.  I am feeling pressured, just like all the pscyh docs who pretty much forced me to try so many different drugs.  I am done with trying new drugs.  I just want off already.  I am not the problem. The drugs were the problem all these years - stolen from me - is how I feel.  I have no health insurance so no scans, or ER visits anymore for me.  No help other than this nurse practitioner who I am paying cash.  I cannot play around.  I am so upset really.

[[kn...]]

I crossed over from 4mgs of clonazepam and 1 mg of lorazepam to the equivalent 60mgs of diazepam in Sept of ‘21. I’ve had all of the typical symptoms described here on site, but only got into serious trouble at the lower doses when I cut from 2.5 to 2 much too soon. I had to up dose to four before I stabilized. My OCD/ impulse control problems continually press me to just want to get it done. It’s tempting, but so far I’ve held steady while microdosing just 5%. I’ve been good with that and hoping to go to 10% next. I also take an SNRI (Venlafaxine).  Not planning on touching that till the diazepam’s finished. Diazepam is cheap and the pills are larger and easy to cut or shave. Hold on. You seem like you have the determination to make it through this. 

[[ma...]]

@[Co...] i also think i have damaged my brain and never will experience to get better . 

[[Co...]]

9 hours ago, [[S...] said:

I'm really sorry you are feeling like this and I wish you all the strength to keep fighting. You can do it! You have come so far already!

If I may, I want to ask you about the thing with your lungs.. Because I'm having those exact worries right now.

I'm feeling these weird pinching/stabbing pains around my chest and I'm afraid it's because I've been vaping and smoking too much.

Did you experience the same thing? What were your symptoms?

For me it's alot of chest tightness,  amd sometimes like a burning feeling,  and of course the shortness of breath along with that dread feeling that spreads to the stomach and throat. But it's messed up, my symptoms have been changing and or kinda morphing, I used to be find with the withdrawal and stillness able to do daily tasks or take a bus get groceries etc, now all the sudden it's like I gave severe agoraphobia. I leave my room and I'm in terror. And along with that comes the strangulation fear or everything because I'm already in anxiety mode. I've never faced anxiety this bad even before I got on benzos in 2005 or whatever. It's interesting though,  this morning (was up most the night) after my last dose at around 8-9pm last night I was super calm and ok. I'm almost wondering if now I'm having a paradoxical effect and the clonazepam is making my anxiety worse. I may try to see how long I can go without them to test that theory 

[[Co...]]

7 hours ago, [[D...] said:

Congratulations on being clean from alcohol and illicit drugs.  Have you considered that some of what you are feeling may be due to protracted withdrawals from that is well.  Congratulations on your taper so far.  Just to give you some perspective on how well you are actually doing...I am tapering from 2mg Clonazepam, after 20 years, and you just say on a bus gave me a panic attack.  I cannot leave the house or interact with people at all.  For me, I think you are doing great just being out and able to communicate with your sponsor, therapist, etc....I can't even talk on the phone.  I think you should give yourself a nice pat on the back for this - no matter how trivial it may seem.  Thinking of 

 Thank you, it's hard to pat myself on the back though when I feel so terrible, i know I've come very far but it just feels like the finish line is still so far away.  I'm almost considering a cold turkey off the 1.125mgs but I dunno,  I wanna see if the clonazepam is doing paradoxical effect now. Cuz I felt fins this morning 12 hours past my last dose, I wake up, take my dose then start to feel bad

Edited April 12 by [Co...]

[[Co...]]

6 hours ago, [[m...] said:

You say you started 60mg diazepam almost 3 years ago, yet have taken benzos for 30 years.  I have been prescribed benzos for 27 years.  It started with xanax in 1997 when I was experiencing panic attacks. The xanax caused depression for me - yet they convinced me that the depression was always there and that there was something wrong with ME  -  such as chemical imbalance...ugh.  Anyway, they tried over 25 different psych meds on me for the horrible depression. Meanwhile, in 2013, a doctor switched me from xanax to clonazepam. I was on 4mg until 2017.  An MD told me I had treatment-resistant depression and should consider ECT. I started tapering and learning more. I never accepted ECT. It has been off and on with the taper because of life stressors and family tragedies. Anyway, I am only down to 2.6mg. I recently found an nurse practitioner to help me and am using compounded liquid form of clonazepam, but now she wants me to cross over to diazepam. I am completely stressed out about switching. I am also on 10mg lexapro.  I do not want to cross over.  Is that why you are on diazepam?  Cross over?  If so, how did that go?  I just want to continue to reduce and taper off clonazepam.  I tried on valium last night with a the clonazepam PM dose basically cut in 1/2.  I think just the thought of it freaked me out.  No sleeep - although I had a stressful day yesterday.  I still have a lot of family responsibility and stressors in my life.  I just do not want to "try" another drug.  I have not heard from anyone having a good experience crossing over to diazepam from clonazepam.  Just checking with you.  I think I am going to tell the nurse practitioner no.  I do not want to do it.  I am feeling pressured, just like all the pscyh docs who pretty much forced me to try so many different drugs.  I am done with trying new drugs.  I just want off already.  I am not the problem. The drugs were the problem all these years - stolen from me - is how I feel.  I have no health insurance so no scans, or ER visits anymore for me.  No help other than this nurse practitioner who I am paying cash.  I cannot play around.  I am so upset really.

No I started at a small dose of Ativan in 2005, I got up to 5mgs of clonazepam in 2007 quit cold turkey,  got back on in 2009 or 10, in 2015 I was up to 18mgs a day then to 24mgs a day of clonazepam,  can see my netcare script in my profile,  which on low end conversion is 200mgs or more of diazepam a day, high end over 440mgs a day equivalent,  I think around the ⅔s mark is right, either way it was a lawsuit amount to be put on. Unfortunately though once I found that out the statue of limitations was gone, at least then I coukda gotten some blood money fo this suffering. 

 

And yeah I've gad all sorts of tests done for all sorts of issues, throat pain, breathing, x rays, a CT scan and so on. It's tough when you think there's so much going on and all the tests basically tell you and anyone else your a hypochondriac or something,  I'm just lucky I live in Canada where Healthcare is free. I dunno how ppl do this in the US and go through all the nightmare testing and whatnot because of all the issues benzos cause.

 

It really is a living nightmare 

[[Co...]]

8 hours ago, [[B...] said:

@[Co...] I'm so sorry you're struggling like this.  You've been pushing forward for a long time.  Looking back at some of your posts it looks like you've been through a lot over the past few years including quitting alcohol and a previous benzo withdrawal.  It's bound to take time for your CNS to stabilize. There are probably several factors in why your symptoms are so difficult.  But none of them mean that you won't recover.  It will take time and the best self care you can manage.

You may know about kindling, which is the body & brain's memory of previous withdrawals and is thought to lead to more severe withdrawal symptoms in subsequent withdrawals.  I think it's very likely this is a big factor for you. It may have helped you to taper more slowly but we know that even with slow tapering people can experience difficult symptoms.   As an individual gets down to lower doses near the end of the taper things can get rougher - you know this firsthand unfortunately.  We see a wide range of healing timelines here on BB.  Some of us have a rougher path with symptoms. Again, none of this means you won't heal.  

This is a very hard road.  We can feel incredibly discouraged and our benzo brains throw negative messages at us constantly on top of our symptoms.  I know we repeat this over and over but reading Success Stories is so important in helping sustain your hope.  I clung to them like a life raft when I was in the thick of awful symptoms.

Thanks for the kind words, sometimes it feels like I'm trapped in a world of my own no one understands,  unfortunately that's far far from true, millions going through this is insane to think about. And I'd say a good 90% got on the pills innocent for medical reasons.  Yeah I had problems with other drugs and alcohol,  and I fully went into that world knowing bow bad it could go, but this, this was a "cure" for my anxiety I've had since a child. And had no idea how insane this world of benzos could get.  It's why I cold turkey'd  in 2007 to go to rehab,  I dint understand by day 3 why I was shaking like a leaf and my day 9 was in the worst hell of my life (until now).

 

Yeah I'm aware of kindling. And I'm pretty sure I've kindled myself a few times, going back on benzos, the alcohol and cross tolerance and then not knowing but getting on baclofen and it's whole gaba B interactions. I just don't get why now this last 3 weeks it's gotten so bad. I dropped from 1.25mgs to 1.125mgs I think in late January. Had my normal couple weeks of feeling off, got through it, then wham this last 2.5-3 weeks I'm getting so triggered by stuff that didn't bother me before at all. Even when I would cut down my dose I could still chair NA meetings or do speaker meetings st a local rehab or detox and share my story,  now just talking to my roommate in my house I rent in I'm filled with absolute dread. I mean I has some stressors lately,  but now they've been cleared up and news was actually alot better then I thought it'd be. So if anything o should be in deflation mode, but I'm so wired, it feels like I've cut down half my dose or something. It's awful to have ones heart pounding (even if it's slow) all the time. I think I've gone into just an all out fear mode and waiting for next shoes to drop or something. I'm not really sure. The more I try to make sense of it the more worse my anxiety gets.

 

I'd like to pay and go to Russia and have them put me in a coma to detox 🫤

 

I dunno now that Canadian winter is ending maybe illntry ti just go for gentle walks or something. As much as isolation keeps me calmest righr now, I know if I isolate to long ill decline and could end up giving into use of alcohol or something. I'm to terrified to double dose my clonazepam.  Such a strange situation,  I'm absolutely terrified of those pills, so much so I'm scared AF to take any extra yet I'm tethered to them like a diver and an air line.

 

I do read the success stories, they do give me hope. But at the same time it still feels almost like a pearl I'll never find. Or a dream I once had that was so good I wsnt to dream it again but every sleep instead I get nightmares.

 

I don't wanna go up on my dose. The dr at the hospital on the weekend offered me a small script of Ativan to help me until I see my prescribing dr, he said that's in your court I don't wanna mess with your stuff  and I can tell your not here to score pills, I declined, as much as I wanted to take the script and fill it asap, I just know that will make the situation worse. Same with increasing my dose. I fear even going back to just 1.25mgs. I fear if I do ill continue to kindle and just make it harder and harder....

 

Anyway sorry I sound whiney now. I'll keep you all updated.  And see how this goes over the next few weeks. 

 

I am curious about getting a testosterone shot, I got one just before my anxiety got bad af, I'm wondering now if my T levels are normal and that made my anxiety Jumpstart.  It's a well documented side effect. Guess we'll see in a couple weeks if it starts to subside as the T shot starts to wear off 

[[Br...]]

4 minutes ago, [[C...] said:

sometimes it feels like I'm trapped in a world of my own no one understands

It's a very lonely path and our symptoms can make us feel even more alienated.  I often felt like a weird robot while I was in withdrawal and it was so awkward talking to people I'd known for years. It got better.  Our bodies know how to heal but they need time.  I believe being among others who understand and relate to what you're going through will make a big difference for you.

6 minutes ago, [[C...] said:

I mean I has some stressors lately,  but now they've been cleared up and news was actually alot better then I thought it'd be.

You may know on a rational level that the news is better but it may take your CNS time to get the memo & settle down from the stressors.  Stressors of all kinds can set us back temporarily.

8 minutes ago, [[C...] said:

now that Canadian winter is ending maybe illntry ti just go for gentle walks or something.

I'm convinced moderate exercise in nature helps smooth out our CNS's ragged edges.  If nothing else it helps discharge all that nasty anxious energy.

9 minutes ago, [[C...] said:

I do read the success stories, they do give me hope. But at the same time it still feels almost like a pearl I'll never find.

Most of us have felt this way.  It's what our benzo brain constantly tells us.  But it's a lie.  Healing is real, it's just that it can take time.

I think you're wise to stay away from your doctor's offer of Ativan.  In my opinion adding a short acting benzo into your world has no upside.

You don't sound whiney - You sound like a person whose world has been rattled by benzo withdrawal.

Over the next few weeks it may help you to take it an hour at a time.  Just putting one foot in front of the other is enough sometimes.

[[Co...]]

5 hours ago, [[B...] said:

It's a very lonely path and our symptoms can make us feel even more alienated.  I often felt like a weird robot while I was in withdrawal and it was so awkward talking to people I'd known for years. It got better.  Our bodies know how to heal but they need time.  I believe being among others who understand and relate to what you're going through will make a big difference for you.

You may know on a rational level that the news is better but it may take your CNS time to get the memo & settle down from the stressors.  Stressors of all kinds can set us back temporarily.

I'm convinced moderate exercise in nature helps smooth out our CNS's ragged edges.  If nothing else it helps discharge all that nasty anxious energy.

Most of us have felt this way.  It's what our benzo brain constantly tells us.  But it's a lie.  Healing is real, it's just that it can take time.

I think you're wise to stay away from your doctor's offer of Ativan.  In my opinion adding a short acting benzo into your world has no upside.

You don't sound whiney - You sound like a person whose world has been rattled by benzo withdrawal.

Over the next few weeks it may help you to take it an hour at a time.  Just putting one foot in front of the other is enough sometimes.

Yeah , in my NA meeting tonight by one of my fellow members who's a nurse said I was already muddy'n the waters thinking about Post acute withdrawal and whatnot. That I gotta stay present. 

She hasn't dealt with alot of benzo stuff but the advice is good. I let alot out in my meeting tonight and I feel a bit calmer. Hopefully it lasts. 

She was curious about the testosterone shot. Cuz alot if these symptoms started a fewd days after I got it. If my T levels are where they should be but I got a shot it could ramp up agitation anxiety and anger, and I've been feeling extremely angry lately as well. Alot of self pity, as well ss self criticism. Kinda in a poor me attitude as well, not afraid to admit it, my emotions have been all over the place. And I've been trying to keep them level. 

I think a big part on reflection is needing release of some sort. But I've usually just been feeling to crappy to do anything.

 

Have alot to digest but all I know is tonight I feel calmer, definitely not like calm calm, but calm enough I'll take it as long as I can.

 

 

 

 

[[Re...]]

@[Co...] Five years is a long time. You have fought your way out of this. Keep fighting. You can live free of benzos and any substances. I know people who were taking 12-1500 mg of Valium a day plus other street drugs and alcohol and they are happy and free and have been sober for many years. You can do it -- you are almost there.

Chemical anxiety is its own beast. Benzos can also cause rebound anxiety. It seems you think this is a "you" problem but from what I am reading here in your post and what I know about this process it seems like it could just be chemical anxiety. Hormones affect the brain so you might be on to something with the testosterone. Unfortunately, science does not know the definitive answers to any of this so nobody can say for sure.

Glad you are getting support in NA. I find that the addiction programs understand the gravity of the collateral damage these drugs cause but many people don't have the severity of the withdrawal symptoms many of us have who take these pills as prescribed. Plus, often, rehabs put addicts on other psych drugs which is like trading one dependence for another. As many of us here know those other psych drugs can be equally as harmful if not more than street drugs and they can complicate benzo withdrawal.

At least you have good social support. I can imagine there must be NA members who had an easier time getting off of drugs and they cannot relate. I have met those people from the rooms going through this as someone who has no history of substance use or abuse and they looked at me like I had three heads. We would have all likely been better off taking heroin or cocaine, maybe the collateral damage would have been less and we would have been back to our lives at three weeks off.

Weirdly, I think of Steve-O a lot. He seems to have done every drug in the book and he lives a full life now sober. So if you ever wonder if your GABA receptors can repair, he is a poster child for healing. Someone once said that he was so messed up that his hallucinations were probably worried about him. He took so many benzos and other substances with it and he was abusing his body with all sorts of stunts at the same time putting body parts where they didn't belong. And he lives his life now sober and he is able-bodied.

Anyway, keep on keeping on buddy. You will get there. Here is a success story you might want to check out if you haven't already.

I look forward to your success story.

 

 

Edited April 13 by [Re...]

[[Co...]]

3 hours ago, [[R...] said:

@[Co...] Five years is a long time. You have fought your way out of this. Keep fighting. You can live free of benzos and any substances. I know people who were taking 12-1500 mg of Valium a day plus other street drugs and alcohol and they are happy and free and have been sober for many years. You can do it -- you are almost there.

Chemical anxiety is its own beast. Benzos can also cause rebound anxiety. It seems you think this is a "you" problem but from what I am reading here in your post and what I know about this process it seems like it could just be chemical anxiety. Hormones affect the brain so you might be on to something with the testosterone. Unfortunately, science does not know the definitive answers to any of this so nobody can say for sure.

Glad you are getting support in NA. I find that the addiction programs understand the gravity of the collateral damage these drugs cause but many people don't have the severity of the withdrawal symptoms many of us have who take these pills as prescribed. Plus, often, rehabs put addicts on other psych drugs which is like trading one dependence for another. As many of us here know those other psych drugs can be equally as harmful if not more than street drugs and they can complicate benzo withdrawal.

At least you have good social support. I can imagine there must be NA members who had an easier time getting off of drugs and they cannot relate. I have met those people from the rooms going through this as someone who has no history of substance use or abuse and they looked at me like I had three heads. We would have all likely been better off taking heroin or cocaine, maybe the collateral damage would have been less and we would have been back to our lives at three weeks off.

Weirdly, I think of Steve-O a lot. He seems to have done every drug in the book and he lives a full life now sober. So if you ever wonder if your GABA receptors can repair, he is a poster child for healing. Someone once said that he was so messed up that his hallucinations were probably worried about him. He took so many benzos and other substances with it and he was abusing his body with all sorts of stunts at the same time putting body parts where they didn't belong. And he lives his life now sober and he is able-bodied.

Anyway, keep on keeping on buddy. You will get there. Here is a success story you might want to check out if you haven't already.

I look forward to your success story.

Yeah Steve o is a good comparison actually,  I was completely messed up on everything I could get my hands on, but mainly opioids and benzos.

 

I'm curious to about melatonin I've been using it alot for sleep but I just read today it works on gaba as well, the gaba-I or gaba-1 channels or something I'd gave to re read it. But haven't taken it in a couple days now and think I'm gonna steer clear.

 

Trying to limit the meds I'm on or put on to manage my withdrawal symptoms,  why the psychiatrist at the hospital on the weekend gave me a script for trazadone and buspars but I tossed it. Already on beta blockers and gabapentin to help the symptoms, but even having gabapentin on board makes me wonder.

 

Thanks for the kind words. It has been a long haul,  but I'm determined to get off benzos, I don't think I could do a cold turkey withdrawal again like I did  in 2007, that was hell for 30 days straight then a good 2-3 months post acute. And I seem alot more sensitive now. Plus there's no detox around me in my province that'd hold me for 30 days or more.

I am considering it though for when  I get to my 0 dose day. I got off them in 2012 as well doing a rapid taper off 2mgs at a detox but lasted a week before crippling anxiety got me back on them. 

 

Sigh... been free and clear a couple times but always went back to benzos. But I don't care if I have to tie myself to a tree or something when I get off this time. Plus I have a much better support system in place. But that's still a bit of a ways off. I think anyways. I may jump at some point I just dunno when or at what dose. But I just don't want the last 1.125mgs to last another 5 years.

 

 

Edited April 13 by [Co...]

[[Re...]]

14 hours ago, [[C...] said:

Yeah Steve o is a good comparison actually,  I was completely messed up on everything I could get my hands on, but mainly opioids and benzos.

I'm curious to about melatonin I've been using it alot for sleep but I just read today it works on gaba as well, the gaba-I or gaba-1 channels or something I'd gave to re read it. But haven't taken it in a couple days now and think I'm gonna steer clear.

Trying to limit the meds I'm on or put on to manage my withdrawal symptoms,  why the psychiatrist at the hospital on the weekend gave me a script for trazadone and buspars but I tossed it. Already on beta blockers and gabapentin to help the symptoms, but even having gabapentin on board makes me wonder.

Thanks for the kind words. It has been a long haul,  but I'm determined to get off benzos, I don't think I could do a cold turkey withdrawal again like I did  in 2007, that was hell for 30 days straight then a good 2-3 months post acute. And I seem alot more sensitive now. Plus there's no detox around me in my province that'd hold me for 30 days or more.

I am considering it though for when  I get to my 0 dose day. I got off them in 2012 as well doing a rapid taper off 2mgs at a detox but lasted a week before crippling anxiety got me back on them. 

Sigh... been free and clear a couple times but always went back to benzos. But I don't care if I have to tie myself to a tree or something when I get off this time. Plus I have a much better support system in place. But that's still a bit of a ways off. I think anyways. I may jump at some point I just dunno when or at what dose. But I just don't want the last 1.125mgs to last another 5 years.

You may want to talk to Dan Landauer. He’s Philosophical Fishing on social media. He’s got an addiction background and he’s been free for years now and he’s a really sweet, sweet guy.

I have dealt with akathisia. I am still dealing with it, although on a much smaller scale. Melatonin is a hormone. I was given melatonin to sleep during this time, and when I stopped taking the neuroleptic agent antipsychotic that was contributing to the benzo we symptoms, the symptoms got worse after I took the melatonin. I thought I would have to taper it, but ended up forgetting my dose one night and just stopped taking it from there. I personally think the more that a person stays away from psych meds and hormones the better off they are. I personally think that is the most direct way to healing. So you are right to be holding up a magnifying glass to other psych meds in my opinion. 

Edited April 13 by [Re...]

[[Kr...]]

Edited April 13 by [Kr...]

[[Co...]]

6 hours ago, [[R...] said:

You may want to talk to Dan Landauer. He’s Philosophical Fishing on social media. He’s got an addiction background and he’s been free for years now and he’s a really sweet, sweet guy. 
 

I have dealt with akathisia. I am still dealing with it, although on a much smaller scale. Melatonin is a hormone. I was given melatonin to sleep during this time, and when I stopped taking the neuroleptic agent antipsychotic that was contributing to the benzo we symptoms, the symptoms got worse after I took the melatonin. I thought I would have to taper it, but ended up forgetting my dose one night and just stopped taking it from there. I personally think the more that a person stays away from psych meds and hormones the better off they are. I personally think that is the most direct way to healing. So you are right to be holding up a magnifying glass to other psych meds in my opinion. 

Yeah, I've now been 2 days without melatonin and I feel alot calmer today,  my heart isn't pounding in my chest even with slow beats and even though I didn't get to sleep till around 7am I slept for a good 9 hours straight,  even though my alarm so much so when I woke and saw it was almost 4pm I crapped my pants lol. Now though my cycle is gonna be so messed up, but that at least I can deal with. The extreme agitation and akathisia as you mentioned not being present today is nice, I dug some more into melatonin and although good for occasional use, apparently using more then a couple nights in a row can cause alot of different side effects in normalized brains. So gaba injured one's I'm assuming probably wouldn't fare well. 

 

Now if I could only get the tinnitus to stop 🤦.

 

We'll see how the next few days go but am feeling better today.  

 

I'm also gonna be talking with my GP and get some blood work done, my thyroid may be off kilter, I had to get it irradiated in 2009 due to Graves disease,  so I take synthroid daily but if my dose is to high it can also lead to being very restless and agitated, I've been taking half pills the last few days to see if that'd help, so yeah gonna get blood work done and see. It has to be checked every 4-6 months usually anyways to make sure the dose doesn't need adjustments. But at this point I can't really peg down what is making a difference and what's not.

 

All kinda trial and error and speculation 

[[Re...]]

10 minutes ago, [[C...] said:

Yeah, I've now been 2 days without melatonin and I feel alot calmer today,  my heart isn't pounding in my chest even with slow beats and even though I didn't get to sleep till around 7am I slept for a good 9 hours straight,  even though my alarm so much so when I woke and saw it was almost 4pm I crapped my pants lol. Now though my cycle is gonna be so messed up, but that at least I can deal with. The extreme agitation and akathisia as you mentioned not being present today is nice, I dug some more into melatonin and although good for occasional use, apparently using more then a couple nights in a row can cause alot of different side effects in normalized brains. So gaba injured one's I'm assuming probably wouldn't fare well. 

Now if I could only get the tinnitus to stop 🤦.

We'll see how the next few days go but am feeling better today.  

I'm also gonna be talking with my GP and get some blood work done, my thyroid may be off kilter, I had to get it irradiated in 2009 due to Graves disease,  so I take synthroid daily but if my dose is to high it can also lead to being very restless and agitated, I've been taking half pills the last few days to see if that'd help, so yeah gonna get blood work done and see. It has to be checked every 4-6 months usually anyways to make sure the dose doesn't need adjustments. But at this point I can't really peg down what is making a difference and what's not.

All kinda trial and error and speculation 

Also, the benzos and psych meds can alter blood work and mimic illness. It can be a real head trip. Especially since doctors are not educated about it and misdiagnose people all the time. I hope you find relief soon, buddy! Glad stopping the melatonin helped. And honestly, I am not the least bit surprised that it did.

[[Co...]]

6 hours ago, [[R...] said:

Also, the benzos and psych meds can alter blood work and mimic illness. It can be a real head trip. Especially since doctors are not educated about it and misdiagnose people all the time. I hope you find relief soon, buddy! Glad stopping the melatonin helped. And honestly, I am not the least bit surprised that it did.

Thanks, yeah everything i read until the other day said melatonin is just a hormone and natural and ok etc etc, but then I saw this when I looked if it works on gaba

 

 

 

" GABAergic mIPSCs, indicating that melatonin enhances GABAergic inhibitory transmission. Hence, our observation that melatonin has an enhancing effect on the GABAergic system may implicate a potential pathway for the neuroprotective effects of melatonin."

 

which made me question if I should keep taking it. The whole thing with baclofen got the hairs on the back of my neck standing up with any gabaergic medication or supplement. The whole baclofen thing was painful,  so it looks like no more sleep meds at all, even "non addictive " or "nature " stuff like melatonin.

Although I am kinda swinging in the dark here,  I have a complicated medical history,  ad addiction and mental health stuff in there, it's a bit of guessing game at times, but the main thing is benzo tapering/withdrawal and what makes it worse or better or indifferent.

The real test will be how I feel in situations where in the last few weeks I've been having full blown panic attacks, or to the edge of one.

 

At least I got a good amount of sleep even if I did sleep until 3:30pm lol

[[Re...]]

10 hours ago, [[C...] said:

Thanks, yeah everything i read until the other day said melatonin is just a hormone and natural and ok etc etc, but then I saw this when I looked if it works on gaba

" GABAergic mIPSCs, indicating that melatonin enhances GABAergic inhibitory transmission. Hence, our observation that melatonin has an enhancing effect on the GABAergic system may implicate a potential pathway for the neuroprotective effects of melatonin."

which made me question if I should keep taking it. The whole thing with baclofen got the hairs on the back of my neck standing up with any gabaergic medication or supplement. The whole baclofen thing was painful,  so it looks like no more sleep meds at all, even "non addictive " or "nature " stuff like melatonin.

Although I am kinda swinging in the dark here,  I have a complicated medical history,  ad addiction and mental health stuff in there, it's a bit of guessing game at times, but the main thing is benzo tapering/withdrawal and what makes it worse or better or indifferent.

The real test will be how I feel in situations where in the last few weeks I've been having full blown panic attacks, or to the edge of one.

At least I got a good amount of sleep even if I did sleep until 3:30pm lol

Do you know what’s really good for panic attacks? If you put ice around your cheekbone area, bend your chest forward below your knees and take deep breaths it triggers in the Mamalian response. You can get these little ice cubes that are covered in a thick covering that you could take with you if you go out and also it protects your skin. Be careful if you have sensitive skin. You have to cover the ice cubes well. 

[[Co...]]

On 14/04/2024 at 10:21, [[R...] said:

Do you know what’s really good for panic attacks? If you put ice around your cheekbone area, bend your chest forward below your knees and take deep breaths it triggers in the Mamalian response. You can get these little ice cubes that are covered in a thick covering that you could take with you if you go out and also it protects your skin. Be careful if you have sensitive skin. You have to cover the ice cubes well. 

Yeah I've used the divers technique alot. Just hard to do so on the bus or in line at a store. In those places I'll usually pinch the inside of my thigh or the back of my neck really hard,  using  TIPPS from DBT.  But I've been doing a bit better the last couple days, I really think the melatonin or the testosterone shot or both had my hormones going haywire. It's been 3 weeks now since my T shot (plus a couple days) and that's around when it all started going nutty, shortly after the testosterone injection. I think I'll see my GP and get blood work done and check my T levels plus my thyroid levels. I had my thyroid irradiated in 2009 due to Graves disease,  that's actually the reason why I got back on benzos after going CT in 2007.  But I digress,  if my T levels are to high and I'm getting more it can cause apparently so much agitation and whatnot (think roid rage) and if my thyroid meds are needing adjustment because they're to high that can definitely contribute to agitation. As for the melatonin,  I'm highly suspicious of, just because it is gabaergic and I was taking it alot to help sleep but it ended up becoming a crutch as well.  So could have been a few things at play, or 1 or 2, or none and I'm shooting in the dark. 

 

Guess we'll see. But today I had to pick up my 2 weeks worth of clonazepam (I don't want to have more on me) and I slept late, past when I'd take my 1st dose, actually when I got my pills I was where I'd have taken my 2nd, and waiting in line I was a bit anxious but I didn't have an attack, or the amount of dread where I needed to get my meds and storm out asap. And that's promising. 

 

This community is great,  as I mentioned before,  benzo tapering/withdrawal can feel so lonely.  But it's  unfortunately not the case, there's alot of us out there but being able to lean on one another even through the internet is super re-assuring 

 

[[Co...]]

A bit of an update,  the anxiety has been a bit better but it's still pretty bad on certain situations, for example when I go to my NA meetings,  before the meeting starts I'm getting pretty bad anxiety.  I dunno why, nothing new, I've been doing them for almost 19 months now, chaired many and done speaker meetings. But every time now I'm getting this feeling of dread, sweating, tight chest etc before the meeting starts and for the 1st maybe 15 minutes,  then I calm down. It hasn't been as bad as it was a couple weeks ago,  why again I think maybe the testosterone injection had something to do with it. My prescribing dr has offered for me to go back uo even to just 1.25mgs but that scares me, to go up even .125mgs but at the same time is tempting because any relief right 😔 but that'll just set me back god knows how long. I'm wondering if I'm just stuck in this and it won't get better until I'm off 100% and start healing for real. Anyone gone through this? It's just so frustrating because I was fine a month ago. Obviously still had struggles but I could do meetings or whatever and be OK. Now it seems anything and everything is causing anxiety like I've never faced before. Again it's a bit better then a couple weeks ago where I was having full blown attacks,  but even though ots settled a bit it's not where I was 5 weeks ago, and that was after dropping on my dose in late January.  Now I dunno when I'll be alright to drop more, if that'll ever be "right". And that's not on my mind (at least consciously) I have full control over the tapering, I could go up or down or hold whenever I want so it's not a tapering fear or that I'm fearing an upcoming drop.

 

I guess I'll need to see my GP and get blood work done.

 

One other thing that it could be, my sleep cycle got all messed up and I'd wake at like noon and usually that'd be when I take my 2nd dose (I take .25mgs 3x a day then .375mgs at night) so I'd take 2 tablets when I woke up but still stick to my dosing the rest of the day, but I don't imagine with a medium to long half life benzo like kpin that that'd be a problem if I didn't take more then 1.125mgs a day total (which i haven't done other then the 1 .5mg Ativan the ER dr gave Me) 

 

Anyone gone through this? Where they've stabilized, then hit all the sudden got bad anxiety for seemingly no reason? In situations one could handle even when they've dropped a dose?  I feel at a loss. I mean at least I'm not having full blown attacks on the bus or in line at the store anymore but still having bad anxiety to where I get super flush, sweating,  nose running,  and if course all the chest tightness and shortness of breath,  yadda yadda, but I wanna get back to somewhat stable again so I can continue to taper,  it's hard to stay strong when ones feeling like this and been tapering for 5 years in some respect, and hard not to say F it put me back up to 3 or 5mgs and get on with life.

[[PE...]]

Hi. 

I wasn't tapering but it sounds like waves and windows. But could be the hormones it's just impossible to tell.

Some get better from a updose some get worse. I wouldn't chanse i think.

Meeting people during withdrawal can trigger anxiety for sure I remember that nasty feeling of not being normal around normal people.

Just curious did you get ANY positive effects from the testo?

I read your earlier posts and you doing great, i know what's it like stepping down from high doses.