Why are some people impervious to benzo withdrawal and others suffer horribly, even after short term use?

[[Da...]]

My husband was on Z drugs for decades and abruptly stopped them with no withdrawal or difficulty sleeping.  Then he was prescribed an SSRI and ativan, which he took for a couple months and stopped abruptly with zero withdrawal.  How is this possible?

[[Ma...]]

Nobody knows.

[[dj...]]

No reason to any of it.  My doctor is one of the guys behind that BIND paper.  He told me they were working on a project with a hospital to examine the DNA sequencing of different patients taking benzos.  Looking for something in genetic code.  

[[Bu...]]

I think I read somewhere that about 20% of people who take these drugs can just quit with little to no perceived negative effects.  I agree with @[Ma...], nobody seems to know why.

[[Co...]]

Yes, it is all epigenetics. my DNA test shows I cannot handle medications in general which I knew. That in particular I cannot handle any muscle relaxants or alcohol...

Honestly, good doctors should do a DNA test before prescribing medications. It is not that difficult or expensive or at least state that option before randomly throwing meds at someone.

Edited March 7 by [Co...]

[[Pa...]]

I have a theory that involves the theory of kindling.  I believe that many can stop these medications with no problem until they can't. 

Some members will tell us they were able to stop many times with little to no problem, until they couldn't, so I believe there could be more, they just haven't hit the wall yet.  For those who don't reinstate after getting off of them, they'll never know but for those who decide to take it again, I feel they're the ones who may be at risk. 

[[Co...]]

I agree with Pamster that that probably also plays a role in people who are 'lucky' at first. But then there are people like me who have insane insane damage after only a couple of days use.

[[Ma...]]

Also agreed with @[Pa...] with kindling.

My fatal flaw.

But who knew. I spoke with Geraldine Burns, Emma Saunders, Chris Paige, JenLeigh, Angela-everyone. And weeks and weeks of research, just everything.

Boom! Disaster…

Disclaimer: nobody I spoke with told me to reinstate.

[[Co...]]

Some people are helped with reinstatement. You never know what to do. I mean we are here now and these were the decisions we made or were in part made for us. I think many asked questions to their doctor like is it safe etc, are you sure etc... We are still here now anyway

[[Nu...]]

6 hours ago, [[D...] said:

My husband was on Z drugs for decades and abruptly stopped them with no withdrawal or difficulty sleeping.  Then he was prescribed an SSRI and ativan, which he took for a couple months and stopped abruptly with zero withdrawal.  How is this possible?

We may never know...

[[...]]

I'm all in for @[Pa...]'s opinion. I took different benzos, including clonazepam, daily for a bit less than a year throughout my life. Every time  i just stopped them c/t for a few years and never gave it a second thought untill i hit the wall. And this time it's been a pure hell. But i think there is more to it. For example, this is an abstract from H. Ashton:

"... there is a wide variation between individuals in the rate at which they metabolise psychotropic drugs, including benzodiazepines, antidepressants and antipsychotics[...]depending on the genetically determined activity of certain drug metabolising enzymes (...). In particular, there appear to be more poor and slow metabolisers among Asian patients than in European populations[...]This means that Asian patients respond to lower doses and experience more serious side-effects on standard doses of benzodiazepines than other ethnic groups."

 

Edited March 8 by [...]

[[...]]

12 hours ago, [[D...] said:

My husband was on Z drugs for decades and abruptly stopped them with no withdrawal or difficulty sleeping.  Then he was prescribed an SSRI and ativan, which he took for a couple months and stopped abruptly with zero withdrawal.  How is this possible?

This runs in my mind everyday, i know so many people who took and stopped ad cold turkey with 0 issues. My twin sister cold turkeyed her ad after 9 years of use and she wasnt even taking it properly. She took if every 4 days instead of daily for i don't know how many years. She cold turkeyed, had brain zaps and felt fatigued for a month and now she is fully functional again. For me , it has been unreletless suffering. 

Edited March 8 by [...]

[[Pi...]]

When I was younger and was taking Ativan only 2 x’s a week for approx 2 years I had no problem tapering over a few weeks..  I did have a panic attack months after discontinuing use but I had a few stressful events happen one after another.

I always wondered why I had that panic attack and now I am pretty sure it was because I had stopped Ativan.  

 

Edited March 9 by [Pi...]

[[Pa...]]

In the past I CT ambien after 3 months use, and Lorezapam after 5 weeks use, no issues. I also reduced Lyrica from 300mg to 75mg after 6 mo use with a few days of acute symptoms, then very mild symptoms for a month. 

Fast forward to now after 12 years of taking K and L as prescribed.  I struggle to reduce K by 1-2% a month, and just changing L brands completely destabilized me.

If it was just genetic, I couldn’t have got off so easily before. I wish I had known about kindling. I believe that  is why I struggle so now, along with duration of taking them. 

Edited March 8 by [Pa...]

[[2c...]]

I also think about this often. I took Ativan for 9 years and then decided to try and stop and even though  I had familiarized myself with the Ashton Manual & benzo buddies, I didn't think I would have an issue so I did a fast taper by breaking my tablets in half and boom!, I reduced my dose by over half, no withdrawal symptoms at all.  I decided to hold that dose, mistakenly thinking it would be that easy again to finish it later.  Fast forward 5 years and this time it has taken me 3 years to taper from a low dose and it's been brutal!  
It's an interesting question! Of course I'm wondering why in the world didn't I just finish tapering the first time..  The prescriber told me at that it  would be no issue to take that low dose.  
I would think if it was genetics I wouldn't have had such a difficult second taper?

By the way, I took my last crumb of Ativan last night!  Let the healing begin!

[[...]]

20 minutes ago, [[2...] said:

I also think about this often. I took Ativan for 9 years and then decided to try and stop and even though  I had familiarized myself with the Ashton Manual & benzo buddies, I didn't think I would have an issue so I did a fast taper by breaking my tablets in half and boom!, I reduced my dose by over half, no withdrawal symptoms at all.  I decided to hold that dose, mistakenly thinking it would be that easy again to finish it later.  Fast forward 5 years and this time it has taken me 3 years to taper from a low dose and it's been brutal!  
It's an interesting question! Of course I'm wondering why in the world didn't I just finish tapering the first time..  The prescriber told me at that it  would be no issue to take that low dose.  
I would think if it was genetics I wouldn't have had such a difficult second taper?

By the way, I took my last crumb of Ativan last night!  Let the healing begin!

@[2c...], wish you as smooth healing as possible!

[[Pa...]]

[[...]]

1 hour ago, [[P...] said:

This is interesting. There is testing for these enzymes through genesight. My physician ran them on me. I metabolize all benzos normally (except Valium). Still I can’t reduce K by more than a few percent per month. 🤷🏻‍♀️But … I think I am also kindled. In the past I had very few issues stopping after short term use. 

I think this+that+something else...

I didn't have any issues after my first - third CTs either. And the benzos were different each time. And now i have had it to the full(  After i've learned about kindling i wonder if it's like this bc of kindling. I also have some asian blood as well

Really hope you'll cope with all the wd issues successfully!⛅

 

Edited March 8 by [...]

[[Sc...]]

On 07/03/2024 at 11:57, [[D...] said:

My husband was on Z drugs for decades and abruptly stopped them with no withdrawal or difficulty sleeping.  Then he was prescribed an SSRI and ativan, which he took for a couple months and stopped abruptly with zero withdrawal.  How is this possible?

Did he take the Z drugs, benzos and AD"s everyday or as needed off and on?.  Off and on does not cause withdrawal. 

[[Co...]]

It can? I got sick day 1 I just did not realize it was the drug?

[[ba...]]

Pharma does not know how these drugs work. It is reasonable that they affect every part our nervous system , which regulates and keeps all of our body running. It's not just gaba and glutamine. Think of the crazy sxs we get: hair losss, swelling, weight changes, migraines, hallucinations, etc, etc. What does hair loss have to do with gaba/glutamine??? The obvious sxs have to do with what benzos are known to do: relax muscles, calm anxiety, and aid with sleep (although xanax has never made me sleep.) Stop seizures, and help with vertigo and balance. Hence, those sxs can be related to the few things the benzos are known to impact. But the other 200 symptoms?

Each of us has our own unique body sensitivities and vulnerabilities. I suspect benzos affect many other nuerotransmitters. As their are so many, we all have the potential for dysregulatin and extreme stress both when on these drugs, and coming off, and post jump. Take a look at this paper:

 

How many different types of neurotransmitters are there?

Scientists know of at least 100 neurotransmitters and suspect there are many others that have yet to be discovered. They can be grouped into types based on their chemical nature. 

https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/articles/22513-neurotransmitters

I think benzos affect every vulnerable system, and numerous nueotransmitters will be adversely affected.

This is my thought on why some people can walk away (the exact numbers are not documented, estimates range from 20-50% of people can stop these meds without too much distress. However, no studies, it's antecdotal.)

A red flag I did not know about is that I have never been able to tolerate alchohol, and benzos and alchohol work on the body in a similar way. These things were never going to work for me, and they havn't, and I am in the taper hell so many of us go through.

 

 

[[Pa...]]

[[Sc...]]

3 hours ago, [[b...] said:

Pharma does not know how these drugs work. It is reasonable that they affect every part our nervous system , which regulates and keeps all of our body running. It's not just gaba and glutamine. Think of the crazy sxs we get: hair losss, swelling, weight changes, migraines, hallucinations, etc, etc. What does hair loss have to do with gaba/glutamine??? The obvious sxs have to do with what benzos are known to do: relax muscles, calm anxiety, and aid with sleep (although xanax has never made me sleep.) Stop seizures, and help with vertigo and balance. Hence, those sxs can be related to the few things the benzos are known to impact. But the other 200 symptoms?

Each of us has our own unique body sensitivities and vulnerabilities. I suspect benzos affect many other nuerotransmitters. As their are so many, we all have the potential for dysregulatin and extreme stress both when on these drugs, and coming off, and post jump. Take a look at this paper:

How many different types of neurotransmitters are there?

Scientists know of at least 100 neurotransmitters and suspect there are many others that have yet to be discovered. They can be grouped into types based on their chemical nature. 

https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/articles/22513-neurotransmitters

I think benzos affect every vulnerable system, and numerous nueotransmitters will be adversely affected.

This is my thought on why some people can walk away (the exact numbers are not documented, estimates range from 20-50% of people can stop these meds without too much distress. However, no studies, it's antecdotal.)

A red flag I did not know about is that I have never been able to tolerate alchohol, and benzos and alchohol work on the body in a similar way. These things were never going to work for me, and they havn't, and I am in the taper hell so many of us go through.

Pharma does not know how these drugs work yet give them to everybody putting many at risk of permanent brain damage, psychological damage and ruined and deceased lives everywhere. They laugh while making money while their victims cry and suffer.

[[Nu...]]

6 hours ago, [[2...] said:

By the way, I took my last crumb of Ativan last night!  Let the healing begin!

Rock on!!

[[Nu...]]

43 minutes ago, [[S...] said:

Pharma does not know how these drugs work yet give them to everybody putting many at risk of permanent brain damage, psychological damage and ruined and deceased lives everywhere. They laugh while making money while their victims cry and suffer.

Yup. Well said.