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Why are some people impervious to benzo withdrawal and others suffer horribly, even after short term use?


[Da...]

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[Ho...]

I was on clonazepam years ago for a few months, and stopped with no issues at all. I was also on ambien and the same thing happened—nothing! 

Fast forward two decades and I'm on clonazepam again for a few months. I titrated down as the doctor told me and things went sideways. He then prescribed valium and pregabalin and a host of meds that made me feel worse, so I stopped them, too. Found BenzoBuddies and because of denial it honestly took me a long time to understand what had happened to me.

So yah, people who go on and off a benzo once usually fare pretty well. As Pamster said, until they don't!

Two nurses, friends of mine, work for a huge pharmacy manufacturer, administering new, not-yet-on-the-marked drugs to volunteers. The volunteers usually reside in-house, or in the lab/clinic for about a month. That's how long testing goes on. It's extremely expensive to pursue, and unless a medication has a chance of making a killing financially, it doesn't get to this point. Most of the volunteers who take the meds are men in the prime of life, often a little down on their luck or looking for a few extra bucks for some reason or another. After the month is up, they aren't tested as to how to get off these drugs after months or years of being on them. That would be far too costly. So no one knows except unlucky guinea pigs like us what happens when you go off of meds like benzos or antidepressants. So none of the experts have that much data; only about thirty days worth, and mainly how men react.

Has anyone noticed the incredible number of pharmaceutical commercials are on online/TV? It's just a cascade, a deluge of 'take this and life will be so great!' Or the new websites that make it easy to get prescriptions, hims or hers (or something like that.) You go online, talk to a doctor and bam, here you go, here are your meds. 

It's unprecedented. We are now medicine consumers, choosing our own scripts. My concern is that in years to come, sites like BenzoBuddies will be so full of overmedicated, withdrawing, damaged people that our dilemma will finally get noticed, but at a terrible price.

Sorry, don't mean to be a downer. After all, I'm getting so much better and now, I know so much better! I just wish I could get out a clarion call of warning to the world—save yourselves! Don't take anything unless you absolutely have to.

HCHC

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[ve...]

I also agree with the epigenetics and kindling theory.  I think both are related.  Once our genes decide our benzo receptors must behave that way, it's very difficult to change.

I hope for a scientific breakthrough in this, but it won't be Big Pharma doing the financing.

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[ve...]

I'd also add that the personality type also counts, because the subjective effects of benzo withdrawal may be responsible for 50% of the suffering.

Introverts and people with any kind of psychological trauma or mental issues suffer more.

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[ba...]

This is a great discussion. i love the various ideas and theories concerning wtf is happening to us. Please keep it coming.

 

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[WU...]
26 minutes ago, [[v...] said:

I'd also add that the personality type also counts, because the subjective effects of benzo withdrawal may be responsible for 50% of the suffering.

Introverts and people with any kind of psychological trauma or mental issues suffer more.

Not sure I agree with you about this. Is this your evaluation or has there been any sort of study about personality types and benzo withdrawal? Many of our symptoms are classic and shared by us all and are therefore not subjective.  

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[ve...]
4 hours ago, [[W...] said:

Not sure I agree with you about this. Is this your evaluation or has there been any sort of study about personality types and benzo withdrawal? Many of our symptoms are classic and shared by us all and are therefore not subjective.  

We have physical symptoms and mental symptoms. By subjective I mean the latter. We're the subject that suffers. Being subjective doesn't make them less real. It's just that our minds playing tricks makes overall suffering worse.

In my case, benzos were prescribed for GAD. My subjective symptoms are anxiety and fear of losing my mind because of depersonalization & derealization. The PTSD of a previous Cannabis induced psychosis make it worse for me.  I'm an introvert.  Cannabis and psychedelics shouldn't be taken by introverts because we create a world of our own.  I believed I had a telepathic link with a neighbour lol.

If physical and mental symptoms each account for 50% of the suffering, they still feed each other. That's why, if we remove the mental symptoms, we cut down overall suffering by 75% instead of just 50%.

Simply put, a person with absolutely no mental issues can cope better with benzo withdrawal.

Edited by [ve...]
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[ba...]

I think your saying preexisting trauma and vulnerabilities affect us mentally, making the psychologoical suffering worse.

I have watched several stories on Youtube from reputable sources. Many of the harmed had nominal preexisting issues, and their suffering was extreme. 

Many were given these meds for vertigo, or seizures, things with no connection to PTSD, Gad or OCD, or depression.

I think of it like each of us has had a leg cutoff with no anesthesia. Our physical response will be extreme, and we will sufffer horribly, regardless of existing mindsets. 

It is thought that these meds cause iagenic brain dysfunction, and deregulationof the nervous system. Hence, the suffering is similar and universal. Some people never had anxiety, or panic prior to taking these meds, but they got them while on the meds.

I am an introvert with a very strong preexisitng CPSTD and Gad. The anxiety and issues I faced pre medication were nothing compared to what i go through now. The chemical terror and looping anxiety are completely different than the daily anxiety I experienced withoout medication. I recognize and believe these sxs to be from drug injury, first fluoroquinilones, then benzos.

Just my opinion. I appreciate your take, but I dont agree with it.

I think we are all suffering from nervous system derugulation, regardless of how we got on the meds, or why.

Of course, you could have a point, but again, it is not studied.

If it was arsenic poisoning, we would all present the same regardless of an existing psychologicalor physical condition. I believe psych meds opperate the same way: universal harm to the CNS.

Edited by [ba...]
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[Ma...]

@[ve...] I hear you, I do. And I am sure piling on w/d anxiety to already present anxiety can feel even more of a load to manage. You don’t need a scientific or research study to validate that.

Other’s may not understand, and that’s okay. Don’t let it bother you-just keep doing you!

As an antidote, I have read many stories from people with preexisting conditions like anxiety and panic disorder who have healed from benzo withdrawal to never experience anxiety again. Theory being 1.) they developed coping skills during w/d they hadn’t prior and, 2.) surviving  withdrawal? Little bothered them following.

I hope that for you 🙏

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[Du...]
On 08/03/2024 at 07:36, [[C...] said:

I agree with Pamster that that probably also plays a role in people who are 'lucky' at first. But then there are people like me who have insane insane damage after only a couple of days use.

Yes me too..some unfair

I know of ppl on 12 years AP and take OTC meds for cough..flu etc almost daily and are ok

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[Co...]

Yes exactly. I already had worse symptoms from cortisone than many others have from the benzo. But no one believed me I had brain damage until it was too late.

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[Ju...]

This is an interesting post. I know I'll probably get yelled at for this, moderators always try to single me out, but it goes for other substances too.

Think alcoholism for example. Some people have it genetically, some people don't. Some people can drink their whole life and just quit with no issues, like it's an inconvenience. Other people go through detox over and over, it destroys their life, they can't escape it. And both alcohol and benzos work very similarly.

Some people can party recreationally their whole life without turning into drug addicts. Others get addicted, and slowly destroy their minds and physical bodies until they're dead. Something about the withdrawal affects others, and others don't feel it. Is it different than benzos? I highly doubt it.

I have a few friends that quit taking benzos cold turkey several times, most that ever happened was they stayed up for a few nights inconvenienced. After that, healed like it never happened. But me on the other hand, I've gone through this multiple times, probably a dozen times in life I've tried to quit benzos. This last cold turkey is still going on 5 years later almost.

I know I'll catch crap for saying this too, but I don't think doctors will ever have a clue. They can do all the scientific research in the world, but they're not god, they don't understand the human bodies like they think. They don't even understand diabetes or cancer, they don't even understand sleep medicine or carbohydrates or diets or anything else yet. Every single year, their opinions change. But with that being said, I would be curious to know why some people are born this way, and others are not.

I honestly feel certain types of people are born to do certain things in life, we're not all equal. Some are born to fight, some are born to serve, others are born to parent. I think we all got thrown off majorly with this equal rights stuff, telling kids they can be anything they want to be. I think we all had a survival purpose from birth, and we were meant to live in tribes instead of cities.

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[Ha...]
On 08/03/2024 at 18:53, [[N...] said:

Rock on!!

That is AMAZING! A big congratulations to you! I'm super close to you. 40 year Ativan dependence 3 mg a day, started taper in April 2022. Down to a quarter of an 0.5 tab. I think I've gone through the worst of my withdrawals from my last cut. Almost there. I bet it feels amazing doesn't it. Freedom!

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[Nu...]
8 hours ago, [[H...] said:

That is AMAZING! A big congratulations to you! I'm super close to you. 40 year Ativan dependence 3 mg a day, started taper in April 2022. Down to a quarter of an 0.5 tab. I think I've gone through the worst of my withdrawals from my last cut. Almost there. I bet it feels amazing doesn't it. Freedom!

Thank you much. And congrats on where you've gotten to! I still struggle in many ways, but things are better, and there's hope for the future. You'll get there! So happy to hear of your progress!!

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[An...]
On 07/03/2024 at 14:57, [[D...] said:

My husband was on Z drugs for decades and abruptly stopped them with no withdrawal or difficulty sleeping.  Then he was prescribed an SSRI and ativan, which he took for a couple months and stopped abruptly with zero withdrawal.  How is this possible?

I wish we knew the answer to this. I have seen this up close and personal though. I had a coworker who took 20-30 mgs of valium for several years. Then, he decided he did not need the drug anymore. He stepped down in weekly 5 mg increments and suffered virtually no w/d. I absolutely could not believe it. <smh>

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  • 4 weeks later...
[Gi...]
On 09/03/2024 at 02:11, [[S...] said:

Pharma does not know how these drugs work yet give them to everybody putting many at risk of permanent brain damage, psychological damage and ruined and deceased lives everywhere. They laugh while making money while their victims cry and suffer.

Totally agree. Absolutely criminal.

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[Md...]

I'm quite sure Pfizer knows, and probably even knows how to remedy benzo withdrawal. Would they ever tell us though? No. They're too busy sponsoring the Grammy Awards.

Big Pharma: A patient healed is a customer lost. 

Edited by [Md...]
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[Sc...]
On 13/04/2024 at 21:28, [[M...] said:

I'm quite sure Pfizer knows, and probably even knows how to remedy benzo withdrawal. Would they ever tell us though? No. They're too busy sponsoring the Grammy Awards.

Big Pharma: A patient healed is a customer lost. 

Governments in bed with pharma and psychiatry.

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  • 2 weeks later...
[Rh...]

I often ponder this question myself.  My brother, who had epilepsy (he had brain surgery wherein their removed the active part of his brain and he’s now seizure free) was on several psych meds, epilepsy meds and two benzos and has been able to step off all of them with rapid tapers and zero issues.

He is scheduled to start his benzo taper this fall and it’ll be interesting to see how he does.

I also have a aunt and cousin who both took benzos and an AD for YEARS and both were able to stop without any issues other than some insomnia and jaw pain.

Me on the other hand, it’s been a total and complete nightmare for years with my benzo and now, 9 months with my AD.  And I did slow tapers over years with both in hopes of avoiding these severe withdrawals.

Wish I knew why some people have no issues while others do???

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[Le...]

A lot has to do with the state of your overall health. Sadly this declines over time from the effect of the drugs. You dont change your life and often it becomes even worse once you use drugs for a solution. 

For me I started them and just tried to continue as I was which wasnt sustainable. It would have been much better if I was left to crash so all the people wanting me to take care of them had to go somewhere else. I tried  to prop myself enough and continue taking care of 5 people also in terrible circumstances. Lived horribly. Every day was trying to do more and more to dig everyone else out as I got sicker and sicker from how I was living and the harm of the drugs. 

You have to deal with whatever your underlying issues are not try to suppress them with drugs. 

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[An...]

@[Rh...] said>>>

image.thumb.png.f1e1f487561cb254368f3d4babbb30c1.png

Interesting! Panic attacks, chronic anxiety, OCD, depression, insomnia etc....these things are all brain disorders in some sense. If only we could safely target (with pinpoint accuracy) specific areas (invasive or nonvasive) of the brain and quiet these areas or perhaps excite other areas for things like depression. We could eradicate a lot of these disorders w/o trying to manage long-term with addictive drugs, which only make the problem worse over time.

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[Cr...]

We already know that nerve cells are some of the slowest cells to recover. I am definitely no expert on the medical side but I have my theories. 

I like to imagine gaba receptors as wheat stalks. Benzos are like adding weight to the heads, causing the stalks to bend over.  Remove the benzo and the stems straighten right back to its original position. 

Some people may have genetics where their wheat stems (gaba receptors) don't recover as easily and when they are bent over it takes them a lot longer to return upright.

The heavier the weight on the head (high dose) the more likely the head will snap/get bent (downregulate). If a light weight (small dose) is put on the head but for a long time.. the stem will eventually get stuck in the bent position due to the weight over time (downregulation) and it may take 6 to 24 months to return to standard position.

Some people may have extremely flexible wheat stalks (gaba receptors) and may bounce back easily from long term use or high doses. Some people may have stronger nerve sheaths.

This is just my imagination running wild putting a visual mental image on this horrible process.

 

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[Do...]
On 08/03/2024 at 00:28, [[P...] said:

I have a theory that involves the theory of kindling.  I believe that many can stop these medications with no problem until they can't. 

Some members will tell us they were able to stop many times with little to no problem, until they couldn't, so I believe there could be more, they just haven't hit the wall yet.  For those who don't reinstate after getting off of them, they'll never know but for those who decide to take it again, I feel they're the ones who may be at risk. 

I watched a video of someone who could come off easily and the second time he took benzos he was in hell, he said the first time he used a "get out of jail for free" card and after that he was F****ked

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[Cr...]

I  am glad that a lot of people can get off of benzos easily. I think enough people suffer as is. What I don't appreciate is when former benzo users that got off easily refuse to believe the leveling of suffering these drugs can cause people simply based on their own experience.

It even affects the mentality of a great deal of doctors too. Just imagine if 90% of your patients that use benzos get off of them with little problem. That will skew their perception over time and make the suffering of the remaining 10% appear to be from a newfound anxiety disorder or some other undiagnosed malady. 

Luckily there are many benzo-wise doctors cropping up throughout the world as more and more research and documentation has been done on the overall effects of benzo use.

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[An...]

@[Cr...] said>>>

Quote

Just imagine if 90% of your patients that use benzos get off of them with little problem. 

What you said is true, Crono. If 90% did not have a problem, most doctors today would be far more likely to  Rx them, just like when Valium 1st came out and the long-term effects were unknown. Most now understand how addictive these drugs are. Where I live, most primary care docs will refuse to write you a script for benzos but will freely give you ADs. ADs come with their own set of problems too, but nothing can compare to the w/d from benzos IMHO.

Hope everyone is enjoying their weekend.

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[En...]

I came off my AD with little problems. I was still able to work. I also quit weed CT and got through that while working. However with benzodiazepines I am having a hard time and cannot work. These drugs affect us with seemingly the same withdrawal symptoms just some more than others. Perhaps it is due to length of time taking them or the dose? Alcohol and benzodiazepines affect the same receptors. 

Some people can smoke all their lives and die of old age. Some get  cancer and suffer. Genetics and predispositions play a part. Some people can metabolize meds better than others. That's why there is genetics testing for medications. Is kindling real? I dont know. 

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