Brutal insomnia, need to take rescue dose

[[Ka...]]

I tapered 2.5mg olanzapine in about 10 months. My last dose was two months ago. Since then i have taken 5mg olanzapine two times as rescue doses to help me sleep. The last 5mg dose was 9 days ago. since then i havent slept at all. I cannot leave my house, i cannot shower, my heart is very weak and rushed. I have some serious problem with my adrenals and the more i stay awake the stronger the awake state gets. So i have no choice but to take a rescue dose again. I have trazodone and hydroxyzine but they do nothing. I also have very severe obstructive sleep apnea. I think i have to reinstate unfortunately to be able to go to the doctors.

[[Th...]]

I would not reinstate or you will lose any healing/recovery you made over the past 2 months.  5mg is much more than a "rescue dose" and rescue doses should be avoided at all costs.  When you take a large dose of a Benzo after being off, you risk "kindling."  Kindling is a theory that states that each subsequent use or reinstatement of Benzos after being off only makes it much harder to stay off and could increase symptoms along with symptom intensity and increase the time it takes to heal and recover.  I'd remove all Benzos from your home, then in a moment of weakness, you are not tempted to take one.  How is reinstating going to help, when you already did a 10 month taper.  The worst is over regarding the taper.  Good luck!

[[ou...]]

@[Th...] olanzapine is not a benzo.

@[Ka...] you might have jumped too soon. If you do decide on reinstatement I wouldn't go higher than 1.25mg. After stabilizing you should obviously go slower this time. A rate of 0.25mg/month is what I was able to tolerate and seems like a reasonable starting point.

[[Ka...]]

Thank you both very much for the replies!

I didnt take olanzapine last night and i feel very very sick. Is there anything I can take for the evening cortisol crises, like ashwagandha, magnesium, omega 3? Or is it a bad idea?

 

edit: I also have hydroxyzine, but it puts me to sleep for an hour at best, and I build tolerance to it very fast.

Edited December 6, 2023 by [Ka...]

[[Th...]]

I stand (or sit) corrected.  However,

 

How long does withdrawal from Zyprexa (Olanzapine) last?

 

These can last for weeks, months, or even years!  Sometimes antipsychotic drug withdrawals can be severe and last for weeks, months or years even after only a few weeks of taking these medications.

 

Edited December 6, 2023 by [Th...]

[[Sk...]]

I was taking Zyprexa for 6 years, it took me a year to reduce and stop dose of 2.5 mg, going off was hardest than benzo, please try not to go back. To me it was prescribed for panic attacks and all I can say is that I was much better without that medication. I've stopped in 2015. and never even thought to take it again. Ever.

[[Ri...]]

On 05/12/2023 at 09:48, [[T...] said:

I would not reinstate or you will lose any healing/recovery you made over the past 2 months.  5mg is much more than a "rescue dose" and rescue doses should be avoided at all costs.  When you take a large dose of a Benzo after being off, you risk "kindling."  Kindling is a theory that states that each subsequent use or reinstatement of Benzos after being off only makes it much harder to stay off and could increase symptoms along with symptom intensity and increase the time it takes to heal and recover.  I'd remove all Benzos from your home, then in a moment of weakness, you are not tempted to take one.  How is reinstating going to help, when you already did a 10 month taper.  The worst is over regarding the taper.  Good luck!

 

3 hours ago, [[K...] said:

Thank you both very much for the replies!

I didnt take olanzapine last night and i feel very very sick. Is there anything I can take for the evening cortisol crises, like ashwagandha, magnesium, omega 3? Or is it a bad idea?

edit: I also have hydroxyzine, but it puts me to sleep for an hour at best, and I build tolerance to it very fast.

Magnesium and ashwaganda can possibly set you back further. The act on the Gaba receptors the same way a benzo can. I'm not a professional and everyone is different

[[Co...]]

Hello @[Ri...]. Welcome to BenzoBuddies.

[[An...]]

2 hours ago, [[S...] said:

I was taking Zyprexa for 6 years, it took me a year to reduce and stop dose of 2.5 mg, going off was hardest than benzo, please try not to go back. To me it was prescribed for panic attacks and all I can say is that I was much better without that medication. I've stopped in 2015. and never even thought to take it again. Ever.

Wow, I have only taken one-off doses of APs. I did not think anything could be as bad as benzo w/d. I do question pdocs who use these meds off-label to treat anxiety and sleep disorders.

On 05/12/2023 at 09:10, [[K...] said:

I tapered 2.5mg olanzapine in about 10 months. My last dose was two months ago. Since then i have taken 5mg olanzapine two times as rescue doses to help me sleep. The last 5mg dose was 9 days ago. since then i havent slept at all. I cannot leave my house, i cannot shower, my heart is very weak and rushed. I have some serious problem with my adrenals and the more i stay awake the stronger the awake state gets. So i have no choice but to take a rescue dose again. I have trazodone and hydroxyzine but they do nothing. I also have very severe obstructive sleep apnea. I think  I have to reinstate unfortunately to be able to go to the doctors.

@[Ka...] I don't have much personal experience with long-term APs. How long were you on the the 2.5mgs of olanzapine before you tapered? Was this prescribed by a pdoc specifically for sleep? I assume you have exhausted all-natural remedies. If you have never taken benzos or z-drugs, perhaps a one-off dose of either might be better than the olanzapine, IDK. I am just trying to think outside the box. I did not see anything about benzos after a brief look at your profile. I know you would rather not take anything.

[[Ka...]]

Thank you all again for the help!

@[An...] i was perscribed olanzapine by a psychiatrist three years ago to help me sleep after a really bad and prolonged experience with another antypsychotic (chlorprothixen) that was perscribed to me to ease my benzo withdrawal symptoms (I was on valium because of complications of my second nose surgery which left me with a horrible inability to sleep). I have taken the first antipsychotic for two years, then switched to olanzapine for another two years, then started to taper.

What do you mean by natural remedies?

I have hydroxyzine but it doesnt do much. A benzo I am dead scared to take to be honest. Tried benadryl, did nothing. Trazodone - nothing unfortunately. I have never taken any Z-drug before but I guess thats my only option left to try if this torture doesnt stop soon.

[[Sk...]]

3 hours ago, [[A...] said:

Wow, I have only taken one-off doses of APs. I did not think anything could be as bad as benzo w/d. I do question pdocs who use these meds off-label to treat anxiety and sleep disorders.

@[Ka...] I don't have much personal experience with long-term APs. How long were you on the the 2.5mgs of olanzapine before you tapered? Was this prescribed by a pdoc specifically for sleep? I assume you have exhausted all-natural remedies. If you have never taken benzos or z-drugs, perhaps a one-off dose of either might be better than the olanzapine, IDK. I am just trying to think outside the box. I did not see anything about benzos after a brief look at your profile. I know you would rather not take anything.

I was stupid enough to believe my psychiatrist. Few years I was on Olanzapine 10 mg, Prazine 200 mg, Lamictal 50 mg, Velafax and Diazepam 40 mg. Then I decided to stop and started taper medications, Olanzapine and Diazepam were the hardest to quit. I've never had any psychotic episodes or problems with epilepsy but my doctor thought this is great therapy for anxiety and panic attacks. All tapering and quitting I have to do without any medical support, all I had was my sister who believe in me, same like she's supporting me now to deal with insomnia without benzo. I'm new here, found name in one comment on YouTube video about benzo but I'm pretty veteran in subject of panic attacks, withdrawal and pills 

Edited December 6, 2023 by [Sk...]

[[De...]]

@[Ka...] Intransal insulin helped me with a setback and cortisol rushes and sleep , and anxiety, doses range from 0.2 to 1.2(120 units) this dose of 120 units, (1,2ml) but in divided doses eg. 40 units× 3  times a day, intransal use of insulin (found humulin, instant release better than novolin IR) It comes in vials of 10ml, 100units per ml If im not mistaken, you dose It with a 1ml serynge, aspire, cut the needle and dose, There is a lot about It over the internet mdpi website has a good article on It, always start low just in case, 0,1 of a 1ml serynge equivails to 10 units.

Edited December 7, 2023 by [De...]

[[Be...]]

10 hours ago, [[K...] said:

Is there anything I can take for the evening cortisol crises, like ashwagandha, magnesium, omega 3? Or is it a bad idea?

 

GTF Chromium 200 mcg. Take one in the evening (like at your evening meal, dinner), take another at bedtime. This was recommended to me by a former buddie. It's worked well for me, but some say it doesn't help them. It won't harm you to try it, and maybe it'll help. Fairly inexpensive. 

[[Ka...]]

2 hours ago, [[S...] said:

I was stupid enough to believe my psychiatrist. Few years I was on Olanzapine 10 mg, Prazine 200 mg, Lamictal 50 mg, Velafax and Diazepam 40 mg. Then I decided to stop and started taper medications, Olanzapine and Diazepam were the hardest to quit. I've never had any psychotic episodes or problems with epilepsy but my doctor thought this is great therapy for anxiety and panic attacks. All tapering and quitting I have to do without any medical support, all I had was my sister who believe in me, same like she's supporting me now to deal with insomnia without benzo. I'm new here, found name in one comment on YouTube video about benzo but I'm pretty veteran in subject of panic attacks, withdrawal and pills 

hi Skipi welcome Im new too. veteran w panic attacks. weaning tapering atm.

[[Ka...]]

4 hours ago, [[L...] said:

Thanks so much.  Yesterday was so bad.  I think I went into a bit of a panic that I may have permanent brain damage but I feel a bit calmer today.  I'm a "fixer" but I have to accept that this is going to take time ❤️

I should post this elsewhere too, but in case you enjoy meditation music. found this helpful:

 

[[Ka...]]

Thank you all again very much for the help!

I ordered the gtf chromium, it will arrive in about 5 to 10 days. I will post an update once I get to test it. If that fails im going to try the insulin.

 

 

[[Ka...]]

Update:

its been three months after finishing taper olanzapine. I have trauma and tbi from stress that was never resolved, adrenal and thyroid issues. I have no windows. I have developed diabetes from the neverending insomnia and body stress. Yesterday my body went through shock all day because of a severe adrenal crisis caused by the brutal insomnia and very severe sleep apnea on top. I was having a fever all day, nausea and vomiting, blood pressure rapidly falling, stomack pain, blood sugar went through the roof, i was all pale, shaking, sweat all over, constantly on the brink of a heart attack. So last night i took 7.5mg Olanzapine because i was left with no other choice. It did knock me out and this actually saved my life, for now. My uvula is again so swolen from the apnea that i cannot speak. But at least i slept, because i noticed that the more i stay in this awake state, gradualy it becomes stronger instead of my body shutting down to sleep. My heart rate now even after i slept doesnt fall below 100bpm probably because of the adrenal crisis and thyroid issues. I can no longer have any hope. I am in deep depression. 

Edited January 15 by [Ka...]

[[Th...]]

I'd avoid rescue doses....they only reset your healing and recovery clock.  Most do not get windows in the first 3 months off.  In fact, the first 30-90 days is a period known as "acute" withdrawal where symptoms and symptom intensity are usually at their worst.  I had severe insomnia for about 10 months and so did many others that lasted a lot longer than 10 months. I never experienced the symptoms you are listing.  Diabetes is not caused from a lack of sleep.  It's caused from insulin intolerance or insulin deficiency.  I am not a medical doctor, but I know for fact that a Benzo would not stop you from having a heart attack!  That's not possible.  Have you gone to a doctor to rule out any other conditions or illnesses that might be a cause?

Tachycardia (rapid heart beat)  is a common withdrawal symptom as well. It normally has nothing to do with a self-diagnosed "adrenal crisis."  I don't mean to come across as being rude or harsh, but everything you are describing fits in very well with what you might expect for symptoms and symptom intensity 90 days off. 

If it will give you peace of mind, please see a medical doctor to rule out any other conditions or causes for your symptoms.  IMO, taking "rescue doses" is like pouring gasoline on a fire that you want to put out, but  you do what is best for you.  I know I was tempted with "rescue doses" so I flushed all my Benzos and told the doctor to never prescribe them to me again under any circumstance.  In fact, I since had them listed as something I am allergic too in my medical profile.  Good luck. 

[[ou...]]

I agree with @[Th...]. You should get checked out to rule out any other conditions and then avoid "rescue" doses knowing that the only thing they rescue you from is a faster recovery. I'm 2 years off olanzapine and although still struggling, I'm more than 70% recovered. Also, this forum is primarily focused on benzos. You should check out https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/ for more info if you haven't done so already. By the way, how high a fever are we talking about?

[[Co...]]

On 10/01/2024 at 15:11, [[T...] said:

so I flushed all my Benzos and told the doctor to never prescribe them to me again under any circumstance.  In fact, I since had them listed as something I am allergic too in my medical profile.  Good luck.

I understand the instinct - and you are far from the only member to have done this - but I do not think it sensible to have benzodiazepines listed as an allergy due to withdrawal effects. Benzos are powerful anticonvulsants, and if you ever suffered a dangerous seizure, where they needed to be brought under control and quickly, an intravenous dose of benzodiazepine is the best way to achieve this. Or, you might suffer an accident and are in screaming agony - you would welcome a powerful sedative in this situation. These situations likely would be one-off events, and a single dose of a benzodiazepine would be highly unlikely to have have any consequences beyond ending the seizure or providing you relief while pain is brought under control. Just something for you to consider.

[[Th...]]

Common examples of anticonvulsants that are not Benzos include carbamazepine, lamotrigine, and valproic acid.  Morphine is a highly effective pain medication with sedative qualities.

Edited January 11 by [Th...]

[[Co...]]

14 hours ago, [[T...] said:

Common examples of nonbenzodiazepine anticonvulsants include carbamazepine, lamotrigine, and valproic acid.  Morphine is a highly effective pain medication with sedative qualities.

'Non-benzodiazepine anticonvulsants' (as a grammatical construction) or 'nonbenzodiazepines'? Presumably, you mean the former. I expect that all 'nonbenzodiazpines' possess anticonvulsant properties, but I do not believe this is what you intended to convey. I know, it is a confusing drug classification name - I've never liked it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonbenzodiazepine

Neither Carbamazepine, nor lamotrigine, nor Valporic Acid are 'nonbenzodiazepines'.

[[Ma...]]

On 10/01/2024 at 08:11, [[T...] said:

I am not a medical doctor, but I know for fact that a Benzo would not stop you from having a heart attack!  That's not possible.  Have you gone to a doctor to rule out any other conditions or illnesses that might be a cause?

Just a quick PSA from a physician: Benzo withdrawal actually CAN induce a cardiovascular state that leads to a heart attack or stroke.  In someone who is elderly or vulnerable or already has heart disease, continuously spiking high blood pressure and tachycardia can be enough to tip some people into an event.  In someone who is 20 years old and physically healthy, losing sleep for weeks on end will be very different than someone who is in their 60’s and has underlying medical conditions.   For this reason alone everyone should slowly withdraw from benzos.   

Edited January 15 by [Ma...]

[[Th...]]

While that may be true, the person is saying that taking a Benzo as a "rescue dose" PREVENTED a heart attack. That is the exact opposite of what you are saying.

[[Ma...]]

That’s not what I said.  The phrase “lack of sleep will not kill you” (which I’ve seen posted many times here) and the idea that having zero sleep is ok while you’re tapering is a dangerous one.  Maybe that statement is true if you are 20 and healthy and it’s a short term issue, but lack of sleep is absolutely correlated with high blood pressure, cardiac events, and death.  Any quick google search will give you 100 studies that support this.  These issues become even more salient in older persons and persons with medical issues.