How to deal with dark depression when tapering?

[[Je...]]

Hey everyone.  I’ve been trying to be as positive as I can but some days are so dang rough just to get out of bed.  The fight inside my head is so daunting and draining.  I’ve been taping for 6 months from a year of Xanax and I’ve gotten down to 9mg of Valium from 30mg Valium.

 

But the thought that I will probably be fighting this depression for another year or more seems unbearable.  I believe I am so strong.  I’ve struggled with depression and anxiety my entire life, but not to this level.

I am also an addict and when tapering off Valium I got addicted to opiates which landed me in rehab.  When I got out i relapsed as the opiates were the only thing masking the benzo wd symptoms.  
 

Im fighting so many different battles all at once.  I don’t even know how I can continue to fight when they are coming at all different angles.  I have a good doctor that’s tapering me slow but even holding the depression is debilitating.  
 

I’ve fought for 30 years and was barely holding on, but this depression hits so much deeper.  
 

I know we all have our battles with different symptoms and I thought I was strong like everyone here but at times I just don’t know how I can battle addiction plus getting off this crap.  
 

I got accepted into a masters program for addiction and hoping to get my PhD in addiction but I’m so afraid I won’t be able to make it.  My life has been such a waste so far.  Years wasted on addiction.  Years fighting.  And here I am with a much larger and much harder fight.  
 

I guess I’m just trying to find hope.  I’ve tried to ask god or the universe to help me through this.  Yet, I have just sunk further into despair. 
 

Thank you everyone for listening.  I hope one day I could look back at this post and be proud of making it through. 

[[Gl...]]

 

You are right, benzo-depression is incredibly dark.  I'm sorry you are struggling more today.  So much of what you said rings true. I plan on another year or two of this. Plus, I'm also the addictive type and have been through other withdrawals including opiates (Suboxone).  

You will make a great addiction doctor because you've been through it.  It sounds like you have a bright future.  You'll get through this very rough year or so.  I just know it.  I'll pray for you.

P.S. You have permission not to be positive all the time.  It's an extremely rough journey.  

 

[[re...]]

A cup of hot chocolate always cut right through my depression. But be careful not to o.d. on it. Don't want to rev up your anxiety either.

[[Th...]]

There is hope, there is healing.  You have to trust the "process."  After your finish you taper, then your healing and recovery journey will begin in earnest.  I never thought I'd heal either.  I've been fully healed for over 5 years now.  I'd read success stories daily for hope.  Even if you read the same stories that you can relate to over and over, it will help.  Unfortunately there are no shortcuts or ways to speed up the recovery process.  It is what it is and plays out in its own timeline for each person.  Good luck.

[[Je...]]

15 hours ago, [[G...] said:

You are right, benzo-depression is incredibly dark.  I'm sorry you are struggling more today.  So much of what you said rings true. I plan on another year or two of this. Plus, I'm also the addictive type and have been through other withdrawals including opiates (Suboxone).  

You will make a great addiction doctor because you've been through it.  It sounds like you have a bright future.  You'll get through this very rough year or so.  I just know it.  I'll pray for you.

P.S. You have permission not to be positive all the time.  It's an extremely rough journey.  

Thank you! I guess just knowing there are others out there feeling the same.  And sub withdrawals are horrible, I went through those as well.

I guess I never thought of it “permission to not be positive all the time.”  I feel like such a loser when it takes me 3 hours to get out of bed.  But I have to remind myself that this isn’t just me being lazy.  It’s me going through healing.  
 

Thank you for the kind words ❤️ 

[[Je...]]

5 hours ago, [[T...] said:

There is hope, there is healing.  You have to trust the "process."  After your finish your taper, then your healing and recovery journey will begin in earnest.  I never thought I'd heal either.  I've been fully healed for over 5 years now.  I'd read success stories daily for hope.  Even if you read the same stories that you can relate to over and over, it will help.  Unfortunately there are no shortcuts or ways to speed up the recovery process.  It is what it is and plays out in its own timeline for each person.  Good luck.

That’s incredible! How did you accept it while going through the process.  Did you just focus on being healed one day.  Knowing this is only temporary!?

My brain tricks me to think that this is my forever feeling.  Just like when I was going through opiate withdrawals and everyone in treatment told me that it wouldn’t  last forever, but each day I never got better but one day I did.  But going through it feels like it never ends.  
 

It seems like if we look at it as pain=healing then we can change the outlook on the process.  Trusting the process and accepting it that we will one day be able to function and live a normal life.  
 

Thank you!  5 years is amazing.  Gives me hope!

[[Th...]]

A common WD symptom is to be very negative and believe that you are stuck forever and that you will never heal.  It's all Benzo LIES.  Our brains gravitate to the negative all the time.  Even though we can intellectually acknowledge that we will heal, we still don't believe it.  It's like we are trapped in a "nightmare" while being awake.  Eventually those thoughts end along with the symptoms and insomnia.  It is a very nonlinear process..very up and down.  It's seems as if we take one step forward, then 3 steps back.  Expect the unexpected.  It's a roller coaster ride for most.  But like a long boring plane ride, eventually it ends.  Just do your best to get through each hour and each day.  Every passing day brings you one day closer to being healed.

[[Zi...]]

20 hours ago, [[J...] said:

Hey everyone.  I’ve been trying to be as positive as I can but some days are so dang rough just to get out of bed.  The fight inside my head is so daunting and draining.  I’ve been taping for 6 months from a year of Xanax and I’ve gotten down to 9mg of Valium from 30mg Valium.

But the thought that I will probably be fighting this depression for another year or more seems unbearable.  I believe I am so strong.  I’ve struggled with depression and anxiety my entire life, but not to this level.

I am almost in the same boat as you with the diazepam (Valium) taper. I started my taper journey January 2023 and was at 30mg/day. I am using the Ashton Manual taper as a guide. I was taking clonazepam 1.5mg/day for about 27 years as prescribed by my neurologist for my cervical dystonia. Anyway I made the switch to diazepam and after 8 months I am down to 11mg/day. I have my dose split so I take 3mg morning and 8mg in the evening. 

The last 2 months have been pretty much hell. The taper must be too quick for my brain and I never realized it until I was hit with so many symptoms. Fatigue is a big one, higher blood pressure, anxiety which is worse than ever plus insomnia. I am now feeling the depression and maybe it is due to all the other symptoms on top of my original condition of cervical dystonia. 

My current plan is to hold at current dose and see if I can heal enough to function better. I am like a zombie these days. The fatigue makes me want to lay down all day. It's not fun. 

Just wanted you to know you are not alone and I hope you feel better soon. Stay strong! 

[[Je...]]

4 hours ago, [[Z...] said:

I am almost in the same boat as you with the diazepam (Valium) taper. I started my taper journey January 2023 and was at 30mg/day. I am using the Ashton Manual taper as a guide. I was taking clonazepam 1.5mg/day for about 27 years as prescribed by my neurologist for my cervical dystonia. Anyway I made the switch to diazepam and after 8 months I am down to 11mg/day. I have my dose split so I take 3mg morning and 8mg in the evening. 

The last 2 months have been pretty much hell. The taper must be too quick for my brain and I never realized it until I was hit with so many symptoms. Fatigue is a big one, higher blood pressure, anxiety which is worse than ever plus insomnia. I am now feeling the depression and maybe it is due to all the other symptoms on top of my original condition of cervical dystonia. 

My current plan is to hold at current dose and see if I can heal enough to function better. I am like a zombie these days. The fatigue makes me want to lay down all day. It's not fun. 

Just wanted you to know you are not alone and I hope you feel better soon. Stay strong! 

Hey I’m sorry to hear that but glad we have each other going through the same hell.  It’s the lady 2 months for me hat have also been the worst.  I never felt any of these symptoms until I got down to 9mg and everything just amped up and hit me like a freight train! 
 

It’s crazy that even at holding I’m not getting any windows.  I know it’s not wise to keep tapering when you still have all these symptoms but I’m getting desperate and figure i already am in hell I might as well keep going.  
 

i got that same fatigue too.  Just sleeping and barely able to do anything of value.

 I just tell myself that nothing lasts forever so eventually this shall past too.  But dam, in the moment it feels like it will never end.  I dread going to sleep knowing I got to fight another day. 
 

But that’s all we can do is fight!  Stay strong friend.  I hope your symptoms let up!  If you ever need someone to talk to.  Thanks!

[[Zi...]]

19 hours ago, [[J...] said:

Hey I’m sorry to hear that but glad we have each other going through the same hell.  It’s the lady 2 months for me hat have also been the worst.  I never felt any of these symptoms until I got down to 9mg and everything just amped up and hit me like a freight train! 
 

It’s crazy that even at holding I’m not getting any windows.  I know it’s not wise to keep tapering when you still have all these symptoms but I’m getting desperate and figure i already am in hell I might as well keep going.  
 

i got that same fatigue too.  Just sleeping and barely able to do anything of value.

 I just tell myself that nothing lasts forever so eventually this shall past too.  But dam, in the moment it feels like it will never end.  I dread going to sleep knowing I got to fight another day. 
 

But that’s all we can do is fight!  Stay strong friend.  I hope your symptoms let up!  If you ever need someone to talk to.  Thanks!

@[Je...] Yes right now all we can do is fight and stay strong! It is definitely nice to know we are not alone in this battle! 

I am going to hold for roughly a month on my taper maybe longer to see if anything gets better. I don't think continuing is safe as you never know if things can get even worse. I know it is hell right now but we don't need to make it worse if holding really will benefit us. 

Just my thoughts and thanks for being here! I appreciate you! Hope you are doing a little better today. 

 

[[Fa...]]

@[Je...]  I wanted to jump on to let you know you're not alone...clearly.  I keep forgetting to come on this board...because my memory is, well, pretty much gone!

The depression is deep...and, mine is always present but also comes in waves that just pull me under.  No way to explain it, is there?  But, I can say that it hits so hard that I feel like I'm going to be sick to my stomach.  I have a hard time breathing when it washes over me.

I've kind of written about this before, but in a more round about way.  Not so pointed.

For me, it's so multi-layered...this black depressive state...because this process has brought to the surface all the stuff I never processed over the years...many, many years.  So, while the WD pulls me under and skews my perception of everything, it's through that lens that I start to look at things that were never fully addressed while medicated/drugged.  I didn't feel things as I should have.  I did not appropriately react to things because I was numbed.  I mean, it's endless really.  A bottomless pit of 'stuff' to deal with through the lens of BW...which totally sucks.  Which means amplified by 1000, and projected onto a massive screen c/w surround sound to review and work through...but, can I really work through things while I'm in this state affectively?  I hope on some level I can...'cause that's all I focus on.

Then, there is the battle fatigue.  It compounds the chemical depression.  Add to that the reality of WD, the time it takes to taper, and all that has been put on hold/lost so far...basically, the carnage of it all.  Oh...and, the symptoms...can't forget those.

Having said all of this, I don't get 'windows' per say.  Not in the classic sense.  But, I do get times where I have some space in my head...and, when that happens, so much of what I mentioned above seems so manageable.  When I'm deep in it, absolutely no way out...doomed.  Might as well quit now.  Our mind is not our friend in BW...no way.  Our minds in BW are not that creative, are they?  They give us all the exact same narrative...we all say the same stuff.  Almost verbatim.

@[Th...]  I've not been able to find comfort in success stories.  I know so many do.  My mind will find something to fear in them...fear/terror is a major symptom for me.  Never leaves my side...like a real frenemy.  But, I've enjoyed reading your contributions in posts.  They are very helpful, so thank you.

@[Je...]  How long have you been holding on your dose now?

Warmly,

F

 

 

[[Je...]]

7 hours ago, [[F...] said:

@[Je...]  I wanted to jump on to let you know you're not alone...clearly.  I keep forgetting to come on this board...because my memory is, well, pretty much gone!

The depression is deep...and, mine is always present but also comes in waves that just pull me under.  No way to explain it, is there?  But, I can say that it hits so hard that I feel like I'm going to be sick to my stomach.  I have a hard time breathing when it washes over me.

I've kind of written about this before, but in a more round about way.  Not so pointed.

For me, it's so multi-layered...this black depressive state...because this process has brought to the surface all the stuff I never processed over the years...many, many years.  So, while the WD pulls me under and skews my perception of everything, it's through that lens that I start to look at things that were never fully addressed while medicated/drugged.  I didn't feel things as I should have.  I did not appropriately react to things because I was numbed.  I mean, it's endless really.  A bottomless pit of 'stuff' to deal with through the lens of BW...which totally sucks.  Which means amplified by 1000, and projected onto a massive screen c/w surround sound to review and work through...but, can I really work through things while I'm in this state affectively?  I hope on some level I can...'cause that's all I focus on.

Then, there is the battle fatigue.  It compounds the chemical depression.  Add to that the reality of WD, the time it takes to taper, and all that has been put on hold/lost so far...basically, the carnage of it all.  Oh...and, the symptoms...can't forget those.

Having said all of this, I don't get 'windows' per say.  Not in the classic sense.  But, I do get times where I have some space in my head...and, when that happens, so much of what I mentioned above seems so manageable.  When I'm deep in it, absolutely no way out...doomed.  Might as well quit now.  Our mind is not our friend in BW...no way.  Our minds in BW are not that creative, are they?  They give us all the exact same narrative...we all say the same stuff.  Almost verbatim.

@[Th...]  I've not been able to find comfort in success stories.  I know so many do.  My mind will find something to fear in them...fear/terror is a major symptom for me.  Never leaves my side...like a real frenemy.  But, I've enjoyed reading your contributions in posts.  They are very helpful, so thank you.

@[Je...]  How long have you been holding on your dose now?

Warmly,

F

Thank you Faith.  I’m the same.  I forget to come back here.  My mind is so lost on what is going on.  Can’t seem to get much done and find purpose.  I’m such a creative person and I’ve never been this uncreative before!  It is like we have no room in our minds to come up with anything new, or look at things in a positive way, which is not like me.  It’s just that dang BW and it gets hard to remember that this is what I’m going through.  I’m sure you have found that a fight, constantly reminding ourselves that this is a chemical imbalance causing these thoughts.  Even as much as I tell myself, it doesn’t really sink in… 

 

That feeling in the pit of your stomach.  The impending doom that something will go wrong.  And you cant even pinpoint what will go wrong!  And then you start thinking about things that are highly unlikely I happen all of a sudden (I keep thinking about cancer or getting in a car crash) and it seems so real.  
 

When I wake up it’s that doom feeling times a hundred and then realizing I have so many more days to fight this. Plus addiction in general.  I keep having fear that I am not strong enough to beat it.  But then I think of what they would say in AA about letting go of things we can’t control and knowing the difference between things we can and can’t.  It reminds me that I can die from addiction or cancer, but I can’t control those things.  I can only take it day by day just like fighting BW.  Nothing lasts forever but when that deep depression sinks in and I’m fighting 3 hours to get out of bed, it sure feels like it.  
 

I just dropped to 8mg Valium from 9mg.  I had held at 9mg for over a month and a half.  And I decided to go back to school to get my PhD in addiction (which I have no idea how I’m going to pull this off) and I wanted to deal with the symptoms now before school started.  Figured it would give me a month to let the hell freeze a bit.  
 

Thanks for taking the time.  It means a lot.  Only someone else going through this depression knows what it feels like.  And I’m sorry you have to go through this.  
 

Please be easy on yourself 😊

[[ch...]]

In a rough spot myself. On 2.5 mg a day of Klonopin + 1800 mg of gabapentin and trying to do a compounded liquid microtaper. I tried cutting 0.1 mg off of my dose this week and had two panic attacks today. Have had severe depression for last 2 weeks; staring at a blank wall or computer screen with complete numbness type of depression.

 

One way or another you will make it through this. To a large extent, we cannot control our circumstances in this world. We cannot control the chemical terror and depression and myriad other symptoms that this process brings upon us. What we can control is our reaction to all of these things. We can choose to see and react to our symptoms as we wish. Transformative or destructive. Meaningful or utterly pointless. We can always orient our thoughts in the right direction. We always have that ability.

 

"Embrace your grief. For there, your soul will grow."

- C.G. Jung

 

 

 

 

 

[[Fa...]]

@[Je...]  Hey, Jeff.  I was so surprised to read about your experience with NAD...to me, because time feels so spun out, I felt like we had just corresponded on this thread and had read about your holding for over a month and finally doing that 1mg reduction.  Then, I saw your thread in Alternative!  So, it has made that much of a difference, has it?  I was entertaining it after I read your post...I have not made up my mind yet.  Still costly for me, but I am willing to investigate it more.  I am thrilled it has made such a big difference for you.  I remember @[Be...] using it last spring to jump off her dose and read all of her updates as she moved through the process.  Back then, I was unable to taper...I was really stuck.  I know why now...but, then, I was stumped.  And, I'm still having a rough go...it's the AKA that creates the problem.  I hope this has helped you to lift out of the deep depressive state...now, that you feel some solid relief from many symptoms.  That is my wish for you.  And, going back to school must feel soooo much more do-able for you now.  Will let ya know on your Alternative thread if I give it a try. 

 

@[ch...]  I had re-read the long thread of March when you were at the detox facility.  All you went through...you showed such strength and courage through that whole ordeal.  I had wondered how you were doing.  Now, I know.  You are still so strong...both you and @[Je...] use some great quotes.  Terror is a HUGE one for me...massive.  A good friend is trying his best to guide me and reinforce some tools for me to use.  Failed miserably first part of my day today.  Just wanted to say it is nice to see you on, and I know you are going to make it through this process.    You're a smart guy!

  

[[Ri...]]

I’m going through that right now. It’s a really bad mixture of high anxiety & depression. Just remember, depression tell lies about life not going good, Remember Depression will always lift. Just keep moving forward, when walking through the hell of depression, don’t stop. Keep moving forward even if you’re faking it! You got this! Just fake it and move forward. It will lift. 

Edited September 3, 2023 by [Ri...]

[[Je...]]

On 02/09/2023 at 17:53, [[F...] said:

@[Je...]  Hey, Jeff.  I was so surprised to read about your experience with NAD...to me, because time feels so spun out, I felt like we had just corresponded on this thread and had read about your holding for over a month and finally doing that 1mg reduction.  Then, I saw your thread in Alternative!  So, it has made that much of a difference, has it?  I was entertaining it after I read your post...I have not made up my mind yet.  Still costly for me, but I am willing to investigate it more.  I am thrilled it has made such a big difference for you.  I remember @[Be...] using it last spring to jump off her dose and read all of her updates as she moved through the process.  Back then, I was unable to taper...I was really stuck.  I know why now...but, then, I was stumped.  And, I'm still having a rough go...it's the AKA that creates the problem.  I hope this has helped you to lift out of the deep depressive state...now, that you feel some solid relief from many symptoms.  That is my wish for you.  And, going back to school must feel soooo much more do-able for you now.  Will let ya know on your Alternative thread if I give it a try. 

@[ch...]  I had re-read the long thread of March when you were at the detox facility.  All you went through...you showed such strength and courage through that whole ordeal.  I had wondered how you were doing.  Now, I know.  You are still so strong...both you and @[Je...] use some great quotes.  Terror is a HUGE one for me...massive.  A good friend is trying his best to guide me and reinforce some tools for me to use.  Failed miserably first part of my day today.  Just wanted to say it is nice to see you on, and I know you are going to make it through this process.    You're a smart guy!

Hi faith! So sorry I missed this!  The NAD helped tremendously.  I couldn’t actually believe how much it helped.  Luckily I have a doctor that was willing to send a prescription to get the shots and I also got the patches and just did them the whole time while I was going through the depression.  And everything started to lift.  

And I figured I would cut as much as I could before school because I didn’t want to cut while starting school (been 13 years since I’ve studied) and moving to a new city (LA) and that whole thing was giving me anxiety so I powered through it and I was so lucky the NAD worked.  It was as if I woke up one day and my symptoms were gone.  
 

I cut 2mg in the span of 2 weeks as I was already In hell.  And although the symptoms have subsided, I felt it’s best to not rush because I think the NAD took awhile to catch up to my symptoms.  
 

And I just did the shots and patches which ended up being a grand total.  2,000mg worth of shots from empower pharmacy is 350 and in a clinic that would cost close to 3k.  So if you can find a doctor to send a script to empower, and do 50-100mg a day it might be worth trying! 
 

I really hope you are hanging in there.  I was in a really dark place and then one day I woke up and my symptoms were gone.  I still got 7mg of Valium to go but once school settles down I’ll be back at it with the NAD.  School itself is giving me all the same symptoms of benzo WD haha but I know it’s not benzo, it’s just the whole new experience. 
 

I wish the forum would give me an update when someone responds:  sorry for the late reply!  Agelessrx has patches if you get up for it.  But I was doing 2 patches a night for 2 weeks before I felt a difference.  But when I’m closer to the end I’m going to go to this nad clinic in baja and the doc said 10 days of 1,500mg of nad, which is about 1/10 the cost of the USA.  
 

You are such a light in this dark world.  Please keep shining because you help more people than you know! I would reread your comments when I was going through hell and I hope you know how much it means to me and others ❤️