Help switch from X to V

[[Md...]]

So for a while I was taking 2mg, sometimes 2.5mg of Xanax 4 times a day. I immediately jumped down to 1.5mg and held (.5mg 3x a day), which felt fine for a while, but then the interdose withdrawals started kicking in (painful brain fog, irritability, inability to focus, it honestly just feels like a sandbag in my head), and unfortunately the interdose withdrawals are getting worse, and the windows seem to be shrinking. I used to go comfortably every 6 hours, but now it’s a struggle to go 5 hours.

 

That being said, I’d like to cross over to Valium, so yesterday I took my normal 3x .5mg, then took 10mg of Valium right before bed, just to slowly introduce Valium into my system without making any Xanax cuts yet, which felt great. Slept better than I have in a long time.

 

Anyway, I’m a little confused as to how I should proceed from here. The Ashton manual doesn’t really cover how to cross over at lower doses of Xanax, so it’s a bit confusing.

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

[[je...]]

Okay, right of the bat, I can tell you that crossovers mean you gradually decrease Xanax while increasing the Valium. If you're not decreasing the Xanax then you're updosing. 10mg V is equivalent to 0.5mg Xanax so no wonder you slept really well.

 

Please don't beat yourself up over this, but I wouldn't suggest going ahead with this and taking another Valium. See this as a one off dose. I assume you're in the US? I'm in Australia and it's morning here, so I might only be able to get you a schedule tomorrow (US time). I suggest you revert back to the Xanax only until we have a proper schedule worked out and hopefully other members on the forum will also double check the schedule.

[[Md...]]

Okay, right of the bat, I can tell you that crossovers mean you gradually decrease Xanax while increasing the Valium. If you're not decreasing the Xanax then you're updosing. 10mg V is equivalent to 0.5mg Xanax so no wonder you slept really well.

 

Please don't beat yourself up over this, but I wouldn't suggest going ahead with this and taking another Valium. See this as a one off dose. I assume you're in the US? I'm in Australia and it's morning here, so I might only be able to get you a schedule tomorrow (US time). I suggest you revert back to the Xanax only until we have a proper schedule worked out and hopefully other members on the forum will also double check the schedule.

 

Damn. So does that mean a setback for me then?

 

I guess the good news is that the medication still works and that I haven’t built a tolerance to it yet.

[[je...]]

No, don't stress about it. Valium takes a very long time to build up in your system, so no long term harm.

 

Take it as good night's rest! 

[[Li...]]

Might I suggest that you think of it as a one-off experiment?  What did you learn from it?

 

For example, you learned that a 10mg dose of Valium before bed in addition to your regular total daily dose dose of 1.5mg Xanax helped you sleep better.

 

Have you noticed a difference in your Xanax interdose wiithdrawal symptoms or pain levels today? Have they increased, decreased, or stayed about the same?

 

[[Md...]]

No, don't stress about it. Valium takes a very long time to build up in your system, so no long term harm.

 

Take it as good night's rest! 

 

Thank you for the reassurance!

[[Md...]]

Might I suggest that you think of it as a one-off experiment?  What did you learn from it?

 

For example, you learned that a 10mg dose of Valium before bed in addition to your regular total daily dose dose of 1.5mg Xanax helped you sleep better.

 

Have you noticed a difference in your Xanax interdose wiithdrawal symptoms or pain levels today? Have they increased, decreased, or stayed about the same?

 

Excellent question.

 

What I noticed today is that I was SO much more relaxed than I have been in a long time, and that the interdose withdrawals were not bad at all. I even got to 6 hours today in between doses with hardly any problems (that hasn’t happened in a while). Not sure how my next dose will be though, still have one more dose tonight, so we’ll see.

 

The only downside is that I’ve been dog tired all day, and super groggy. Lots of brain fog, but not the painful kind. All I wanna do is sleep lol.

[[je...]]

Hi there Mdfox1

 

I have a crossover schedule for you. It's important you go through these in detail and make sure you understand what it means and that you agree with what is being proposed. According to Ashton 0.5mg X = 10mg Valium. Your dose of 1.5mg X will therefore be crossed to 30mg Valium total. Based on the 4mg Xanax Schedule yours will look like this:

 

Xanax 1.5mg (3x times dosing)

 

Starting dose:

0.5                              0.5                        0.5

 

Stage 1:

0.5X 0.5X 0.25X

                5mgV

Stage 2:

0.25X 0.5X 0.25X

5mgV       5mgV

 

Stage 3:

0.25X 0.25X 0.25X

5mgV 5mgV 5mgV

 

Stage 4:

0.25X 0.25X Stop X

5mgV 5mgV 10mgV

 

Stage 5:

Stop X 0.25X

10mgV 5mgV 10mgV

 

Stage 6:

          Stop X

10mgV 10mgV 10mgV

 

 

Let us know what you think!

[[Md...]]

Hi there Mdfox1

 

I have a crossover schedule for you. It's important you go through these in detail and make sure you understand what it means and that you agree with what is being proposed. According to Ashton 0.5mg X = 10mg Valium. Your dose of 1.5mg X will therefore be crossed to 30mg Valium total. Based on the 4mg Xanax Schedule yours will look like this:

 

Xanax 1.5mg (3x times dosing)

 

Starting dose:

0.5                              0.5                        0.5

 

Stage 1:

0.5X 0.5X 0.25X

                5mgV

Stage 2:

0.25X 0.5X 0.25X

5mgV       5mgV

 

Stage 3:

0.25X 0.25X 0.25X

5mgV 5mgV 5mgV

 

Stage 4:

0.25X 0.25X Stop X

5mgV 5mgV 10mgV

 

Stage 5:

Stop X 0.25X

10mgV 5mgV 10mgV

 

Stage 6:

          Stop X

10mgV 10mgV 10mgV

 

 

Let us know what you think!

 

You are AWESOME! Thank you SO much! Gonna attempt this starting tonight.

 

Again, thank you!

[[je...]]

You're welcome. I hope it goes smoothly. According to Ashton there should be 1-2 weeks between each stage.

 

Also keep in mind many people report they feel sedated when switching to Valium (as you seem to have experienced). So the beginning might be tough, but apparently the sedation wears off. I don't know, I don't have experience, I can only tell you what I've read.

[[Md...]]

You're welcome. I hope it goes smoothly. According to Ashton there should be 1-2 weeks between each stage.

 

Also keep in mind many people report they feel sedated when switching to Valium (as you seem to have experienced). So the beginning might be tough, but apparently the sedation wears off. I don't know, I don't have experience, I can only tell you what I've read.

 

Thanks again. I’m honestly hoping I can figure out a way to replace the benzos to help treat my debilitating nerve pain (seriously, it’s a million times worse than these interdose withdrawals, and that’s saying something).

 

What sucks is that all the nerve pain medication out there also seems to be just as bad as the benzos (Lyrica, gabapentine, Tegretol, etc.). Not really sure what to do about that.

 

I am meeting with these psychiatrists on Tuesday, and am hoping they’ll have some ideas. They’re very benzo and anti-depressant aware, and even allow a patient lead taper. They’ve been mentioned a couple times on this forum, and people have nothing but good things to say about them.

 

 

 

 

[[je...]]

From what I've seen on their videos I have a lot of respect for what they're doing. They certainly know what they're doing.

 

If you're seeing them in a couple of a days it might be best not to start the crossover as you never know if they'll have a different treatment plan in mind for you.

[[Md...]]

From what I've seen on their videos I have a lot of respect for what they're doing. They certainly know what they're doing.

 

If you're seeing them in a couple of a days it might be best not to start the crossover as you never know if they'll have a different treatment plan in mind for you.

 

I was kinda thinking the same thing, but I did just start your plan tonight, which I’m sure is pretty solid. Again, these guys believe in a patient lead taper, so whatever works best for the patient.

 

I met with the female doctor (Marissa) a couple of days ago, and I’m not gonna lie, she scared the living hell out of me when she said she thinks I most likely have a neurological drug injury after telling her the symptoms I was having from the the interdose withdrawals.

 

I interpreted it as brain damage, but I guess that’s technically what it is when we become dependent on this stuff?

[[je...]]

She might be referring to BIND: http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=267299.0

 

 

[[Md...]]

She might be referring to BIND: http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=267299.0

 

I think so, which absolutely terrifies me. This is basically the point of no return type stuff isn’t? Where most of the damage either takes years and years to heal, or doesn’t heal at all?

[[Md...]]

I don’t want to speak too soon, but I feel like this cross over to Valium has really helped the interdose withdrawals. But there has been a caveat: depression, no drive, and wanting to just sleep all day. This is only after substituting .25mg of Xanax for 5mg Valium at night.

 

Hopefully it will get better. If not, I’d much rather take these side effects over the interdose withdrawals I was having!

[[je...]]

Good to hear the interdose withdrawal is subsiding a bit. Unfortunately sedation and depression are common side effects reported with Valium. But some people also say it does settle down a bit after a couple of weeks, so I hope it's the same in your case.

[[du...]]

Jellybaby,

 

If you could I would like to see a taper schedule to get off my last 0.18 mg/day of ativan.

 

Dude 66

[[Md...]]

Good to hear the interdose withdrawal is subsiding a bit. Unfortunately sedation and depression are common side effects reported with Valium. But some people also say it does settle down a bit after a couple of weeks, so I hope it's the same in your case.

 

Good to hear! Thanks again!

[[je...]]

Jellybaby,

 

If you could I would like to see a taper schedule to get off my last 0.18 mg/day of ativan.

 

Dude 66

 

Could you please start your own thread then we can discuss this?