Re: Rivotril WD

[Guest [...]]

Hi 55clotap

 

Unfortunately, no matter what decision you make (and it does have to be your decision) there are no real guarantees. It’s a difficult case, and after everything we’ve talked through, there is one other potential issue to consider, and that is regarding the numerous other medications you’ve tapered or c/t’d in the past and the potential impact they’re now having on your current taper.

 

If you continue tapering the clonazepam, the question is how to resolve your inter-dose withdrawals without having to up-dose a medication that your body has always had trouble tolerating?

 

How would it impact you if you were to split your remaining total daily dose evenly between your morning and nightly doses, or even adjusting to something like 0.11 morning and 0.22 evening in the hope of easing those inter-dose withdrawals.

 

It’s impossible to know whether or not a HOLD would help you, so, it’s something you would just have to try (once you’ve attended to the inter-dose withdrawals).

 

For someone with your history of medications, I do think it’s possible you’ve tapered too fast and your brain just isn’t capable of keeping up or tolerating the reductions. Sometimes we just have to grit our teeth and hold for a while. Again… there are no guarantees… it’s all trial and error.

 

The other option is crossing over to diazepam… would the initial depression be as bad as you think, or worse than what you’re already experiencing? The over-sedation (in my experience) only lasts a few weeks, and the depression eventually resolved completely as well.

 

Would making another change in medication cause further issues… causing even more issues, or would you tolerate the diazepam much better than the clonazepam? Again… there’s just no way to know without taking the plunge…

 

The only other option I see is up-dosing the morning dose slightly to alleviate the inter-dose withdrawals whilst leaving the nightly dose where it’s at… would you feel slightly better on a higher morning dose than continually having to experience those inter-dose withdrawals, knowing that this would add more time to your taper?

 

We really cannot make your decisions for you… all we can do as a collective, is offer various outside perspectives and support you fully, whatever your choice or decision may be.

 

WS

 

 

[Guest [...]]

Just thinking…

 

The only other potential option I see is to maybe add a small amount of diazepam to your morning dose to help alleviate those inter-dose withdrawals, which would also provide you with a bit of a look at how you tolerate the diazepam without just crossing over.

[[55...]]

Hi WinterSun.

 

«If you continue tapering the clonazepam, the question is: how to resolve your inter-dose withdrawals without having to up-dose a medication that your body has always had trouble tolerating?».

 

I would prefer, if possible, not to increase the doses of the drug. One question: diazepam has a longer half-life. If I only took it in the night, would it cover the next day without the need of the morning dose? After all, my current morning dose is small: 0.03 mg. of clonazepam should equal 0.6 mg. of diazepam, i.e. 3 drops. Right? Could I possibly take them all in the night (33 drops), taking advantage of the longer half-life of diazepam?

 

«How would it impact you if you were to split your remaining total daily dose evenly between your morning and nightly doses, or even adjusting to something like 0.11 morning and 0.22 evening in the hope of easing those inter-dose withdrawals».

 

Are we sure that raising the dosage again in the morning (I was at 0,2 mg. at the beginning) and lowering the one in the evening does not create further kindling or an alteration that is too difficult to absorb without strong side effects?

 

«The over-sedation (in my experience) only lasts a few weeks, and the depression eventually resolved completely as well».

 

Did you experience a stronger sedation or depression with diazepam than with clonazepam? How many weeks did it last?

 

«The only other potential option I see is to maybe add a small amount of diazepam to your morning dose to help alleviate those inter-dose withdrawals, which would also provide you with a bit of a look at how you tolerate the diazepam without just crossing over».

 

Maybe I could just starting with replacing the current morning dose of clonazepam (0,3 drops) with an equivalent dose of diazepam (3 drops).

 

[[Pa...]]

Maybe I could just starting with replacing the current morning dose of clonazepam (0,3 drops) with an equivalent dose of diazepam (3 drops).

 

I like the sound of this, and I know you have to live with the consequences but its something to try that hasn’t been tried before. 

[Guest [...]]

Maybe I could just starting with replacing the current morning dose of clonazepam (0,3 drops) with an equivalent dose of diazepam (3 drops).

 

I like the sound of this, and I know you have to live with the consequences but its something to try that hasn’t been tried before.

 

Yeah, I agree.

 

I think this would be a good start, although, you may also like to allow yourself the option (down the track) of increasing the dose (slightly), depending on how those inter-dose withdrawals resolve.

 

Given you are dealing with inter-dose withdrawal issues throughout the day, I certainly wouldn’t consider switching your morning dose over to the nightly dose at this point. I would either simply replace the 0.03mg morning clonazepam dose with the equivalent diazepam dose, or add a small dose of diazepam to the 0.03 clonazepam… I know you don’t want to up-dose, but, I would just keep in mind that your immediate goal is to resolve the inter-dose withdrawals, and although both benzo’s have a relatively long half life, the diazepam obviously has a longer half life than the clonazepam, so, the question would be…

 

‘How would you feel as the 0.03 clonazepam is leaving your body whilst you wait for the diazepam to build up in your body’?

 

Would it hit you like another (sizeable) reduction (one that you are not stable enough to tolerate well right now), possibly even, initially, increasing the inter-dose withdrawals?

 

Considering you don’t seem to be able to dose the clonazepam only the once per day…  I wouldn’t entertain adding the diazepam to your nightly dose right now. You need to give yourself the best chance to alleviate those daily inter-dose withdrawals, and I just can’t really see how removing the remaining 0.03mg clonazepam from the morning and adding a tiny dose of diazepam at night would be the best way to resolve those inter-dose issues.

 

Just some food for thought…

 

WS

 

 

[[55...]]

I have burning skin everywhere, but overall in my pudendal nerve. In that point of the body it is very strong and mixed with pain. I start to think  that this is a general WD symptoms, not only interdose. I don't know how much it can depend on the type of benzo, or simply on the fact that I'm tapering. Is it possible? I mean, if already now the symptom is so strong, what to expect if I continue to taper? And then? Will it be chronic? Guys, I'm really exhausted.

 

 

[[55...]]

I have read your various advices and thank you. The problem is that there are many hypotheses. I am currently stuck on the 0.33mg. dosage of clonazepam (0.3 at night and 0.03 in the morning). In addition to the above symptoms, I am sensing an increase in akathisia. I can't stay still in one place, I have a tendency to move from side to side in a constant state of agitation.

 

My breath is labored. I wouldn't reinstate and I wonder if, keeping the dosage steady, I have any hope that my body will adapt and give me a break. One question: does all this create continuous kindling? Slow it down the taper?

[Guest [...]]

Hi 55clotap

 

Are you linking the akathisia to inter-dose withdrawals? Are they increasing throughout the day?

 

Although I can’t give you a direct yes or no answer to the inter-dose/kindling question, I certainly can’t see how constantly going through inter-dose withdrawals can have anything other than an adverse affect on your system, potentially making tapering more difficult. If the symptoms you mention are directly related to inter-dose withdrawals, then you will need to make a decision one way or another to resolve them. I know you’re afraid of making a mistake, and that’s completely normal, but I think that making no decision may be just as harmful.

 

If things continually worsen the further out you get from your previous dose, then you are experiencing inter-dose withdrawals, and I wouldn’t  expect they will resolve.

 

When I make a reduction, it really doesn’t matter whether I’ve dosed 12 minutes ago or 12 hours ago… once I’m hit by the reduction on day 3, I just feel the same withdrawal symptoms 24hrs a day until I eventually adjust to the reduction.

 

The big question is this - are you experiencing inter-dose withdrawals?

 

Only you can answer that question, but if your answer is ‘yes’, then you actually do need to do something to resolve it.

 

WS

[[55...]]

I'm continuing with 0,3 mg. in the night and 0,03 mg. in the morning. The symptoms are strong and persistent, especially the burning skin that, untill recently, I had not or only in a light intensity. Some day I can't breathe or stand up, some other I can go to work, but with an immense effort. I'm imprisoned on this dosage and feel a lot of kindling. I don't have the courage to make changes of drug (i.e. Valium) becouse I'm afraid I'll get worse. At the same time, I would not to increase the dose for allowing my brain to adapt. Am I in doing a mistake? Has anyone improved his taper by increasing the dosage?

 

I'm really confused and feel clearly that this process, for me, is impossible or will take too many years of absolute sufference. I don't think to resist becouse my system is too messy from too many drugs. Please, help me.

[Guest [...]]

Hi 55clotap

 

Up-dosing often smooths out the taper process for many, but it has to be your choice. We cannot make your decision for you. It must be you.

 

If you are indeed experiencing inter-dose withdrawals, they simply will not resolve without you making changes to your morning dose. But again… it must be your choice.

 

We support you whatever you choose.

 

WS

[[55...]]

Hi all,

 

situation is the same. I'm imprisoned on the dosage of 0,3 mg. in the night and 0,03 mg. in the morning. The symptoms vary for intensity and type. Burning skin and shortness of breath are still present, but a little less strong for the moment. Depression and fatigue are very potent and I have difficulty to stand up. Other days I'm very agitated.

 

I am not able to evaluate how much it depends on the interdose withdrawals, on the general taper I did during this months or on the simple fact of taking a molecule, clonazepam, too powerful and damaging for me. Clonazepam gives me many sexual side effects. I'm thinking about trying to switch to valium, but I should do it very, very slowly, possibly only one dose per day. Can diazepam cover all day? Do you have any suggestions on times and methods?

[[Pa...]]

I wonder if the members on this thread can give you their experience with Valium? Valium Tapering Support

[[55...]]

Thank you. However my problem, in this moment, is not how to taper diazepam, but how to switch from Rivotril to Valium without to pay an high price...

[[Pa...]]

I understand but these people have experience crossing to and using Valium so I was hoping they could let you know if coverage lasts all day and they’re the most experienced with everything Valium.  My apologies though, the link I gave you is very old, this thread is more current. http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=96753.0

 

This is a more specific dose of Valium thread. http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=151673.0

[[55...]]

For a week now, clonazepam has been giving me big problems at night. After taking it in the night, in fact, I begin to feel symptoms of severe irritation of the nerves throughout all my body, as if I had insects crawling under my skin, contracting my limbs and forcing me to move them continuously. Of course I don't sleep and I wake up exhausted. What can it be? The toxicity of the drug? Is it possible that Rivotril makes my neuropathy get worse? I won't repeat once again how bad this drug makes me feel, but the more time passes, the worse it gets. How is it possible to go on like this? Please, give me some advice or interpretation about this new adverse reaction.