Phenobarbital method ?

[[mu...]]

Oh ok I hear what you are saying but I'm afraid they may look down on that or think i'm overmedicated to volunteer if both show up depending on when they test me and where I'm at with my process. Either way they usually asked if you're on any prescribed drugs and of course I'd answer yes so maybe it won't be that big of a deal. thanks for shrinking that concern as far as my decision goes.

[[be...]]

Oh ok I hear what you are saying but I'm afraid they may look down on that or think i'm overmedicated to volunteer if both show up depending on when they test me and where I'm at with my process. Either way they usually asked if you're on any prescribed drugs and of course I'd answer yes so maybe it won't be that big of a deal. thanks for shrinking that concern as far as my decision goes.

 

MTD,

 

If anyone looks down on you for having to face a major life challenge the legal way, then I'd seriously question them. People are prescribed benzos and barbituates for a broad spectrum of reasons. If they ask, tell them you have Restless Leg Syndrome if that will shut them up. You are  a conscientous and educated professional who is willing to VOLUNTEER her time. They are lucky to have you.

[[mu...]]

Hey, I just posted a bit on my blog but thought I'd update here that i changed my mind and decided on the pheno method after thinking long and hard about it. I'm sure i'll be reaching out on this site much more, I'm glad to have a place to reach out to while I'll be incubating in my apt through whatever it is I'll go through. I'm starting tomorrow morning hoping to go through with it when I wake up, if not, then I still have the option of slow tapering and will have to accept it. will update on my blog on my states as the days go on.

[[Ho...]]

Hey, I just posted a bit on my blog but thought I'd update here that i changed my mind and decided on the pheno method after thinking long and hard about it. I'm sure i'll be reaching out on this site much more, I'm glad to have a place to reach out to while I'll be incubating in my apt through whatever it is I'll go through. I'm starting tomorrow morning hoping to go through with it when I wake up, if not, then I still have the option of slow tapering and will have to accept it. will update on my blog on my states as the days go on.

Let me know how it goes... can you provide a link to your blog so I can see updates?

[[va...]]

 

That said, and this is my personal opinion, but I can't see taking 8, 12, 18, or 24 months to taper unless you are highly functional during your taper. If you are going to suffer anyway you might as well get off the drug sooner rather than later. Get that healing started.

 

And even if you aren't "suffering" while on the drug you might be surprised at how much it is still affecting you. When I started to get windows it became very clear to me just how much clonazepam had screwed me up even when I wasn't feeling "bad". It killed my motivation and creativity and made me depressed. I would guess that I was only functioning at 65% of my capacity while I was on the drug.

I agree 100%. I'm glad I am in the process of going cold turkey with Pheno because the Klonopin was giving me horrible withdrawal symptoms even BEFORE I reduced a dose! (Because of the tolerance thing..?) I could not live on that drug. The brain fog was like I was in a coma 24/7. No sleep on it either. Why I didn't link these symptoms to taking Klonopin earlier (or why my doctor didn't!!!!!) ... I don't know.

 

So that's why I decided to drop it quickly... i feel i had to

Hi Holly, first I want to wish you luck. I do mean that.

 

Second, You're six days off of klonopin. It can take 10 - 14 days to peak and then continue peaking or level there for a while and then peak again up to 90 days and such. I just want you to be aware of that as you are still early out and probably won't have a clear view on what dropping the benzodiazipine as quickly as you did will feel like as far as withdrawal goes. Not yet, it's too early. Withdrawal is just getting started now.

 

Phenobarital doesn't go anywhere near the GABA receptor to help it absorb GABA and slow symptoms down as was Leighjay's experience.

 

As far as 8,12,18,24 months tapering like that is a bad thing. There is a higher chance you can fish, camp, work, see your girlfriend/boyfriend function normally because tapering is easier on the brain. When people c/t, they can spend 8,12,18 months in chronic withdrawal. And the daily functioning is out. Plenty are highly functional tapering slowly. Most that aren't are usually toxic sick on the benzo, or going too too fast in their taper.

 

I'm not trying to scare anyone, but it is very important for all of you new people to learn how this drug works on the GABA receptor. I'm seeing a lot of, "there's got to be an easier way, I want to heal faster." So you do it your way. That's fine. For those that are new and reading this thread and wanting to learn how to taper off of a benzodiazipine, it would be wise to read Lieghjay's experience with phenobarbital while quick tapering a benzodiazipine. THIS is what we hear over and over from people that use that method.

 

Mustdothis, it sounds to me you've made your decision, I wish you luck as well.

 

Last, if there was as easy way and pheno worked, everybody on these boards would be doing it. They're not. There's a reason. Coming off by c/t is adding unecessary strain on the brain. If reinstatement to taper is wanted at a later time as symptoms are strong due to pheno not giving relief, reinstating later can make it more difficult to find a point to stablilize.

 

Mustdothis, crossing over to valium is done slowly. It is easier to control benzo blood levels therefore symptoms when adding a bit of valium and dropping a bit of your original benzo and this is done over a period of weeks. Not cutting your original benzo, and then adding valium as that typically is too much stress for the brain and then the individual has to deal with the QUICK transition off one benzo which can exaserbate symptoms regardless of valium being added. Mustdothis, make sure your doctor is aware of benzo equivalency's if you cross. So you can stabalize at the correct equivalent dose if you go in another direction.

 

http://www.benzodocs.com/converter.pcp

 

Good luck everybody.

[[Pa...]]

Hey, I just posted a bit on my blog but thought I'd update here that i changed my mind and decided on the pheno method after thinking long and hard about it. I'm sure i'll be reaching out on this site much more, I'm glad to have a place to reach out to while I'll be incubating in my apt through whatever it is I'll go through. I'm starting tomorrow morning hoping to go through with it when I wake up, if not, then I still have the option of slow tapering and will have to accept it. will update on my blog on my states as the days go on.

Let me know how it goes... can you provide a link to your blog so I can see updates?

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=25627.0

[[le...]]

I am not sure how my experience would be without pheno. All I know is I had to increase it from 45 to 60 mg per day for the least bit of comfort....if you can call it that. As I am tapering off pheno the w/d symptoms are more intense for about a week and then go back to being tolerable and allowing me to work. I firmly believe now that a slow taper is the best way to go. I am only 13 weeks off benzo and I know I still have a long way to go in this process.

 

Had i been given much of a choice and told of the awful w/d i would go through i am not sure what i would have done.  I am almost grateful that i didn't have to make that choice. I know I will get through this and you will too. Keep the faith! 

[[Ho...]]

 

That said, and this is my personal opinion, but I can't see taking 8, 12, 18, or 24 months to taper unless you are highly functional during your taper. If you are going to suffer anyway you might as well get off the drug sooner rather than later. Get that healing started.

 

And even if you aren't "suffering" while on the drug you might be surprised at how much it is still affecting you. When I started to get windows it became very clear to me just how much clonazepam had screwed me up even when I wasn't feeling "bad". It killed my motivation and creativity and made me depressed. I would guess that I was only functioning at 65% of my capacity while I was on the drug.

I agree 100%. I'm glad I am in the process of going cold turkey with Pheno because the Klonopin was giving me horrible withdrawal symptoms even BEFORE I reduced a dose! (Because of the tolerance thing..?) I could not live on that drug. The brain fog was like I was in a coma 24/7. No sleep on it either. Why I didn't link these symptoms to taking Klonopin earlier (or why my doctor didn't!!!!!) ... I don't know.

 

So that's why I decided to drop it quickly... i feel i had to

Hi Holly, first I want to wish you luck. I do mean that.

 

Second, You're six days off of klonopin. It can take 10 - 14 days to peak and then continue peaking or level there for a while and then peak again up to 90 days and such. I just want you to be aware of that as you are still early out and probably won't have a clear view on what dropping the benzodiazipine as quickly as you did will feel like as far as withdrawal goes. Not yet, it's too early. Withdrawal is just getting started now.

 

 

 

I understand what you're trying to say, and that you're trying to prepare me. But I really didn't need to hear that. You really have no right to say what I "should be expecting" - do you even know how long I'd been on Klonopin, or my dose or frequency? I'm trying to keep as positive as possible, and I don't need or want to hear someone say to me that I should expect hell in a few days. That doesn't help me at all. All it does it make me anxious and depressed. 

 

 

[[va...]]

 

That said, and this is my personal opinion, but I can't see taking 8, 12, 18, or 24 months to taper unless you are highly functional during your taper. If you are going to suffer anyway you might as well get off the drug sooner rather than later. Get that healing started.

 

And even if you aren't "suffering" while on the drug you might be surprised at how much it is still affecting you. When I started to get windows it became very clear to me just how much clonazepam had screwed me up even when I wasn't feeling "bad". It killed my motivation and creativity and made me depressed. I would guess that I was only functioning at 65% of my capacity while I was on the drug.

I agree 100%. I'm glad I am in the process of going cold turkey with Pheno because the Klonopin was giving me horrible withdrawal symptoms even BEFORE I reduced a dose! (Because of the tolerance thing..?) I could not live on that drug. The brain fog was like I was in a coma 24/7. No sleep on it either. Why I didn't link these symptoms to taking Klonopin earlier (or why my doctor didn't!!!!!) ... I don't know.

 

So that's why I decided to drop it quickly... i feel i had to

Hi Holly, first I want to wish you luck. I do mean that.

 

Second, You're six days off of klonopin. It can take 10 - 14 days to peak and then continue peaking or level there for a while and then peak again up to 90 days and such. I just want you to be aware of that as you are still early out and probably won't have a clear view on what dropping the benzodiazipine as quickly as you did will feel like as far as withdrawal goes. Not yet, it's too early. Withdrawal is just getting started now.

 

 

 

I understand what you're trying to say, and that you're trying to prepare me. But I really didn't need to hear that. You really have no right to say what I "should be expecting" - do you even know how long I'd been on Klonopin, or my dose or frequency? I'm trying to keep as positive as possible, and I don't need or want to hear someone say to me that I should expect hell in a few days. That doesn't help me at all. All it does it make me anxious and depressed.  

 

 

Hi Holly, I apologize and I certainly wasn't trying to make you feel bad. I am very honest, so people understand the process. Again, it was not my intention to make you anxious or depressed.

 

Stay positive, that's good. Maybe write your signature out so people can SEE your dose frequency and length of time on klonopin. That helps everybody in the long run.

 

As well, it is important on this board and any board that new members that could be reading this understand that phenobarbitol is not a method that is proven to make benzowithdrawal easier. If you have decided to this, that is your choice and right. But others need to know, there can be an easier way and that's by tapering. So I was specific in my explanation so everyone can try to make as informed decision as they can if they are just starting out. Many people read these boards. Then like you they can make a choice as to how they will discontinue.

 

I do wish you the best in this, sincerely. It is no small feat being courageous and discontinuing a benzodiazipine. And again, I do apologize for making you feel badly.

 

Many of us here are speaking from experience when we reference rapid tapers and c/t's. We're are just trying to help in our own way.

[[Fl...]]

FloridaGuy, just clarifying since I've been under much stress over this decision, did you say your personal opinion would be to go with the rapid taper with the phenobarbital? because in a sense I agree, I want to start the healing as soon as possible too.  on the same note of course, ideally, I would like to go with the slow taper and believe that I can do it, but, I've proven to myself over and over, that I can't resist the impulses when challenges come into my life to grab an extra dose and then only to screw up all my hard work.

 

No, what I was saying is that I believe that most people SHOULD taper, but the length of the taper should be determined by how you are feeling when you are on the drug. If you are feeling ok and functioning well then a long taper makes sense. If you aren't feeling well when you are on the drug and having a hard time getting through life a long taper is just prolonging the agony.

[[mu...]]

Thanks Pamster for giving Holly the link!

I just posted

 

 

[[jo...]]

Is there anyone else tapering phenobarbital right now?

 

I'm hoping to connect with someone who's also trying to survive this hell after being taken off clonazepam following 11+ years of 1 mg every night--no breaks--for insomnia.

 

Please, someone, be there.

[[Pl...]]

Following

[[jo...]]

Pleasebehere, I'm so relieved that you're following, just knowing someone else on BB is working through a PB Rx is a much-needed comfort to me. I hope you're doing okay. Are you holding at 22.5 mg or adjusting your dosage right now?

 

I'm ending two of the toughest weeks since my benzodiazepine nightmare began. I believe that most of the sxs I have right now are due to the extended acute WD from my clonazepam CT on Oct. 6, but I also think they've been complicated, maybe worsened as time passes, by the PB Rx and taper.

 

Initially, I was prescribed PB to lessen the potential for seizures from the CT that I now know was the worst health "care" treatment I've ever endured. The PB should've been discontinued after two weeks (which wouldn't have even covered the worst weeks of acute WD), but when the doctor realized how disabled I was once the acute WD period began, he had me remain on PB "until (my) sxs improve." Well, my sxs never improved following the acute period, but I knew I didn't want to stay on PB, so I started tapering it myself using a water titration. That turned out to be a terrible method, though, because I realized PB isn't water soluble. I was struggling to try to get stabilized as I continued my taper. I shared my struggle with my doctor; however, he refused to write an Rx for PB suspension, and he insisted I break the tablets into what was huge reductions that made it impossible to stabilize.

 

About that time, my GP's group was joined by a resident PharmD, and he agreed to take over my case since my GP had extremely limited knowledge/understanding about the benzodiazepine WD and recovery process. He'd spent time at a VA hospital, where he saw many patients going through WD and recovery, and he told me to expect that it might take a year to recover from clonazepam. I'd already planned on it but it was so good to have at least one doctor (besides my pharmacist) who understood the WD process!

 

I began my PB Rx at 48.6 mg and increased to 64.8 mg daily. Right now I'm holding at 36 mg and I'll be staying here for at least a couple of weeks, maybe longer. In January, I'd have told you that I was going to continue tapering five meds. at the same time, in order to meet my goal of being drug-free in 2018. After the past two weeks, however, I know I can't physically/emotionally/mentally keep up that schedule. I had two more uncued panic attacks last Saturday, which hadn't happened since Jan. 4, and before my CT off clonazepam I'd never even had anxiety, just insomnia. My doctor agreed yesterday when I told him I wanted to slow things down and focus on one med. at a time. The phenobarbital really scares me, though, because Prof. Ashton describes it as "barbaric".

 

If you're reading this and you've had an experience with PB that's different and not worse, please leave some encouraging comments about it here for me and for others who might join us here.

[[Po...]]

I was c/t in Detox hospital from Lorazepam.  In hospital for 7 days.  Given PB in a large dose to begin.  Dr knew about PB and it took 7 months to taper from it.  Strictly controlled taper.  It did help, but nothing is fun tapering off of.  My dr was the practicing head of the detox center in the hospital.

[[jo...]]

Popcorn, thank you so much for joining us here, even though you've been off your PB for awhile! I know it takes a special person to come back after successfully finishing a taper, just to help others who are on the same long road. Please share whatever wisdom you have because all of it can be helpful, and thanks again!

[[Po...]]

I tried to find out what strength PB I was on, but no success.  i know I was on for 7 months.  I was up to 8MG Lorazepam before c/t.  That's a lot!  I did pull the following from my Progress Log, if I find anything else I will post it here.  After the PB taper I had to taper Gabapentin, I think that was prescribed to help with the PB taper. 

Gaba can be easy for some people to taper.  I couldn't take any more than 300MG a day or I felt "HIGH".

 

1-16

 

Life is bad -  saw detox doctor on Friday - keeping me on Pheno - said you were on Lorazepam a long time and your body needs to heal from it.

 

Still have sprained foot - he said that could last for a while yet.

 

Symptoms

 

Swollen feet - partially from gabapentin and the sprain

extreme dizziness

constipation

dry mouth

chills, sweats

electric current in body

tight chest

eyes are blurry

tinnitus

 

I believe that these symptoms were still from the c/t.  I "survived" the tapers.  There is a light at the end of the tunnel  (and it is not a train)