HELP, Do I jump or fast taper off, having bad symptoms

[[to...]]

My entire taper was six months.  I cut 0.25mg every two weeks or so until I got to 0.25mg and tried jumping from there.  Failed.  After two days I reinstated, updosed to 0.5mg, and did a water taper for almost 2 months reducing 0.01mg/day until I got to 0.01mg and jumped from there.  Success the second time around. 

 

Thanks Kate 08!  I just talked to my husband about all this and he is the one that has been cutting my pills for me since I can not see well enough to.  I am in alot of  wd tonight and it has been getting worse all evening.  He told me that the more he cuts those pills into smaller and smaller pieces, we really do not know how much med I am really getting so the best thing for me to do is to try the water.  I am not going to do it in 17 days but at least I have a plan to start the water tomorrow or Saturday! We will see how it goes!

 

 

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tolnbltp

 

I just want to clarify one point. 0.174 might seem like a small dose but it's important to remember that Xanax is very potent. It means you only need a tiny bit to get an effect. That is likely why you couldn't tolerate the jump. So even though the dose is small it contains a very strong amount of Xanax (for lack of a better explanation). I just want to you to keep this in mind when making decisions. I really want to see you succeed - you've come so far! 

 

Hi Jelly baby - thank you !  I know it is not a small dose as far as how potent it is, what I meant was that compared to the 4 mg xanax I started my taper at, the .174 is a small dose, I do not by any means think it is not potent, I know it is!  I should have clarified that when I posted that!

I appreciate you caring and for your post!!  I really want to succeed too and I know I will.  I so appreciate all the support! 

 

[[to...]]

Expanding on jelly baby’s spot on clarification regarding the potency of Xanax …

 

Per Ashton, 0.174mg of Xanax is equivalent to 3.48mg of Valium/diazepam. 

 

Also, per Ashton, clonazepam has the same strength/potency as Xanax.  In the US, clonazepam is available in 0.125mg orally disintegrating tablets.  This tells us that seemingly ‘small’ dose has been found to have a therapeutic effect; otherwise it would not be on the market.  (Speaking from personal experience, 0.125mg of clonazepam packs quite a wallop so I imagine 0.125mg of Xanax would as well.) 

 

Wow Libertas - Thank you for that information.  I had no idea .174 = 3.48 mg of valium - that is a high dose for sure!  Also about the clonazepam, I had no idea!  I have read and heard that 0.125 was not considered a therapeutic dose and I know for sure that it has an effect!  It is very strong.

 

I appreciate you adding that information, it is valuable to me!!  Wow - it is crazy how potent and strong these little pills are!!  I am still learning every day! 

 

I definitely learned a hard lesson and am going to be recovering from that for a while.  My wd is bad tonight, worse than it was before I tried the jump. 

 

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Hi, I need more help !!!

 

Since the jump and reinstatement on Tuesday night, I am now feeling constant withdrawal unless I take a tiny bit more med.  My husband has been cutting my pills and last night he told me that he is not sure how much med I am getting as some of the pills feel denser than others when he cuts them and he does not know which has the med and which could just be filler.  He files the pills and uses a scale.  While I have decided I am going to start doing the water method Kate08 used, right now my husband is having some medical issues and I may not be able to do that for a few days.

 

My question is - since we really do not know what dose I am on, may even be lower than the .174 mg a day, in order to get this withdrawal under control so I can function, should I updose to maybe .25 mg and then start from there with the taper? 

 

I do not know if a small updose would help to get this wd under control and need some help and input here?  It does seem that I am having interdose wd between every dose now!

 

I forgot to say - when my husband redid my pills Wednesday morning - I messed up and gave him the wrong number so it ended up being a cut instead of going back to the dose I was on before jumping.  It went from .174 to .170 mg. (30 grams to 29 grams) but then again we are not sure about how much is med and how much is filler.  I do not think the tiny bit I have had to take to combat the wd is much.

 

Thanks

[[je...]]

Has this method your husband did work for you up until jumping, i.e have you mostly felt stable?

[[to...]]

Has this method your husband did work for you up until jumping, i.e have you mostly felt stable?

 

For the most part I think it did but the last couple months have been harder for me to make cuts.  The most I could do was 2% when I used to do 4-5% cuts.  Once the histamine issues started in February, nothing has been easy. 

 

I did ok before the jump but had days when I had wd but not to the point I was debilitated.  Part of this could be from when he cut my pills Wednesday morning, I gave him the wrong numbers so the pills he filed ended up being a little less so a cut.  I am also guessing that the tiny amounts I have had to take last night and today might take me back to the dose before jumping.  I am going to recut the pills in a little while and see if that helps too. 

 

I just feel like I am having interdose between each dose.

[[Li...]]

What is the manufacturer of the tablets you are using?

 

What is the strength of the tablets?

 

 

[[to...]]

What is the manufacturer of the tablets you are using?

 

What is the strength of the tablets?

 

Greenstone  .25 mg

[[je...]]

Okay, so I think you're still recovering from the jump and then the added cut.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if you're having interdose withdrawal unfortunately. This is so difficult. If you're really struggling you could updose but gosh I'd hate to see you lose the progress. If you updose maybe consider first trying 0.2?

 

So you could either hold a bit longer or try an updose. Have you asked the Xanax group? I don't have experience with Xanax and it always helps to get advice from those tapering the same drug as you.

[[to...]]

Okay, so I think you're still recovering from the jump and then the added cut.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if you're having interdose withdrawal unfortunately. This is so difficult. If you're really struggling you could updose but gosh I'd hate to see you lose the progress. If you updose maybe consider first trying 0.2?

 

So you could either hold a bit longer or try an updose. Have you asked the Xanax group? I don't have experience with Xanax and it always helps to get advice from those tapering the same drug as you.

 

I agree, I am sure I am still recovering from the jump.  I weighed the pills and could not get any of them to measure the same so I am sure it was a cut from .174 to .170 which was not intentional! 

 

Because my husband is having some medical issues I need to be functional.  Maybe I will try to go back to .178 as I do not want to lose the progress, I had made either!  I had planned to start the water plan tomorrow because my husband said he is no longer comfortable with the pill cutting because he saw how bad I was the other night and he wants to make sure that I get the most accurate dose I can!  I will cut some pills to have at the .178 a day dose and if I have to go to the hospital with him, I will have my meds and otherwise, will start the water tomorrow at .178.

 

I have not asked the xanax group as no one seems to be posting there anymore and I have a personal reason also why I do not post there anymore.  I do have a couple friends on here that I PM with that are on xanax and have sent them messages asking for their input too.

 

Thanks for responding and helping me!

[[je...]]

Oh gosh,  I don't know where my brain is.  There's hardly any difference between 0.2 and 0.25. I was thinking about something else, but what I'm not sure!

 

Anyway,  I would hate to see you lose the progress because I know how hard we work for it, but I do understand if you need to do it. 

 

These decisions are so difficult. I can imagine it must be tough for your husband to get the dose accurate. If you do switch methods please keep holding until you're stable and when you reduce please keep monitoring your percentages.

 

I hope things settle soon.

[[Li...]]

What is the manufacturer of the tablets you are using?

 

What is the strength of the tablets?

 

Greenstone  .25 mg

 

According to DailyMed, Greenstone tablets have a functional score line.  I’m just brainstorming here but given your (legitimate) concerns about the accuracy and consistency of your doses using the ‘pill-shaving/weigh’ approach …

 

Have you considered splitting a tablet in quarters and taking one-quarter of the tablets for each of your three daily doses?  This would be a slight updose to approximately 0.1875mg total daily dose (see math below) so you’d lose some progress but it might result in more accurate and precise (consistent) doses.

 

You’d need a decent quality pill-splitter.  Here’s one I have used:

 

EqualSplit Pill Splitter

[nobbc]https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07MH6XTL7?ref_=cm_sw_r_ud_dp_S6C827A4XC8G32PEQ2ED[/nobbc]

 

Math:

 

0.25mg divided by 4 = 0.0625mg per quarter

 

0.0625mg + 0.0625mg + 0.0625mg = 0.1875mg total daily dose

[[to...]]

Oh gosh,  I don't know where my brain is.  There's hardly any difference between 0.2 and 0.25. I was thinking about something else, but what I'm not sure!

 

Anyway,  I would hate to see you lose the progress because I know how hard we work for it, but I do understand if you need to do it. 

 

These decisions are so difficult. I can imagine it must be tough for your husband to get the dose accurate. If you do switch methods please keep holding until you're stable and when you reduce please keep monitoring your percentages.

 

I hope things settle soon.

LOL  That is ok!  I understand!  I certainly do not know how I am thinking at all right now! 

 

I so agree, making these decisions are not easy!!  None of this is, as you know!  Yes, it has been tough for my husband to the get the doses correct.  I just took over 2 hours to weigh some of the pills he had already prepared for me and none of them were the same weight and ALL of them weighed less than he thought!  I believe now that this has been a big part of my problem the last few months.  I certainly know he has done the best he could do but I do not think I have been getting the correct doses for a while now which would cause me to have the problems I have been having.  Every time I would weigh one pill several times, the scale would change the weight each time.  I had a hard time doing this myself.  So, for him to be weighing and then having to file and reweigh etc, it must have been a really hard thing to have been doing for over a year now!!  WOW - I have more appreciation than ever for his efforts.  I do not think he was being quite as careful as I was, and I know he thought the pills were correct! 

 

I am going to switch to water in a few days and I will stay at the dose I land on until I am stable.  I am going to use the same plan that Kate 08 used but I am going to take longer than she did as I know I can not go as fast as she did.  I may start out with a 90 day plan but know I can slow down as I need to. 

 

Thank you so much for all your help!  I appreciate it!! 

[[to...]]

What is the manufacturer of the tablets you are using?

 

What is the strength of the tablets?

 

Greenstone  .25 mg

 

According to DailyMed, Greenstone tablets have a functional score line.  I’m just brainstorming here but given your (legitimate) concerns about the accuracy and consistency of your doses using the ‘pill-shaving/weigh’ approach …

 

Have you considered splitting a tablet in quarters and taking one-quarter of the tablets for each of your three daily doses?  This would be a slight updose to approximately 0.1875mg total daily dose (see math below) so you’d lose some progress but it might result in more accurate and precise (consistent) doses.

 

You’d need a decent quality pill-splitter.  Here’s one I have used:

 

EqualSplit Pill Splitter

[nobbc]https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07MH6XTL7?ref_=cm_sw_r_ud_dp_S6C827A4XC8G32PEQ2ED[/nobbc]

 

Math:

 

0.25mg divided by 4 = 0.0625mg per quarter

 

0.0625mg + 0.0625mg + 0.0625mg = 0.1875mg total daily dose

 

Hi Libertas,

 

Thank you!  Yes, they do have the score line!  I do have a pill splitter and I think that would be the best way to do this right now!  I could go up slightly and once I am stable on that dose, I can start the water method that I plan to do.  Once I wanted to go below the .1875 mg,  I would be faced with the same issue again doing the method I have been doing so this would work for me now so I can hopefully get better and then move forward.

 

I will use the pill splitter and go to .1875 mg which will not cause me to lose much progress and then once I am stable, switch to the water method.

 

The pill splitter I have is good but thank you for the link to the one you used, if this one does not do a good enough of a job, I will order that one!

 

I really appreciate your help!  :smitten:

[[to...]]

It has been 5 days since I did the up dose, and I am not doing well!  A couple days ago, I had what are described as stroke like symptoms.  My left eye was distorted like when you get your eyes dilatated or you look through the bifocal part of eyeglasses.  I kept closing my eye and that finally went away, my left hand was numb and had a tingling feeling at the same time. I felt like I was off balance.  My nose also felt numb.  Nervous stomach, whole body was shaky!  Terrible headache.  I do know all of these are benzo wd symptoms.  Is it possible to have so many at one time?

 

Then on top of that, I had a full-blown panic attack!  Mouth got really dry and my throat felt like I could not swallow.

 

I had something similar to this a week before I did the jump but not this bad!

 

I did take a piece of xanax and things got better, both times this has happened recently, so I feel like this was benzo wd but my mind keeps telling me maybe it was something else.  I had this before and went to the ER 3 1/2 years ago and they ran all the test and gave me Ativan and it all went away.  They found nothing wrong.

 

I have been having severe headaches and body aches since I jumped and reinstated.

 

How long does it normally take people to get stable or at least feel better once they jump, 2 days later reinstate, and up dose?

 

I am scared.  Just need some assurance I will get better!  I pray I do soon!!\

 

 

[[sh...]]

Your symptoms - headache, blurry & distorted vision, numbness is hand, dizziness, etc are ALL the symptoms I get when I experience an ocular migraine.  Please google it.  It only lasts for about 30 minutes (which is about the time you administer the Ativan).  Please look into it.  The treatment is so simple.  I take one baby aspirin a day and it keeps them from occurring.  My mother and brother also suffer from ocular or optic migraines - which is the aura, but not the resulting debilitating headache.

 

Also, the last time I had one I was reading and I COULD NOT UNDERSTAND LANGUAGE.  I called my daughter into the room and had her observe me try to read aloud and it was word salad.  First time it happened 20 years ago, I too thought it was a stroke.  Now it is an annoyance that occurs max once a year.

 

[[Ka...]]

Oh dear tolnbltp, I am so sorry.  I had dreadful anxiety both times I jumped and anxiety can minic all sorts of physical conditions that are scary like heart problems, stroke, seizure, etc.  The time I jumped prematurely the anxiety was so bad that when I reinstated/updosed, the clonazepam couldn't override it.  It took 2-3 days for everything to simmer down for me.  It is likely anxiety causing your distress but if you feel you need to get checked out medically, then that is what you should do. 

[[to...]]

Your symptoms - headache, blurry & distorted vision, numbness is hand, dizziness, etc are ALL the symptoms I get when I experience an ocular migraine.  Please google it.  It only lasts for about 30 minutes (which is about the time you administer the Ativan).  Please look into it.  The treatment is so simple.  I take one baby aspirin a day and it keeps them from occurring.  My mother and brother also suffer from ocular or optic migraines - which is the aura, but not the resulting debilitating headache.

 

Also, the last time I had one I was reading and I COULD NOT UNDERSTAND LANGUAGE.  I called my daughter into the room and had her observe me try to read aloud and it was word salad.  First time it happened 20 years ago, I too thought it was a stroke.  Now it is an annoyance that occurs max once a year.

 

Hi Shotsy,

 

Thank you so much for responding!  You have made me feel better!  I did look up ocular migraine and I believe that could be what I experienced both times, along with withdrawal, since in the last 2 weeks I was having really bad headaches (I do get migraines sometimes) and both times my vision was distorted and both times it did last around 30 minutes or less.  Taking the xanax each time also helped.  The time it happened 2 weeks ago, I also had the inability to read or comprehend language, I wrote a message and later read it and it made no sense at all.  I kept trying to form sentences in my head but could not.  Pretty scary! 

 

When I had the issue 4 years ago and went to the ER, they did every test they could do and found nothing - when they gave me the Ativan, it went away, and the doctors said it was health anxiety!  The same thing happened when I went to the ER because I was having symptoms similar to a heart attack!

 

I have a doctor's appointment in a couple weeks and will talk to him about all this and taking the baby aspirin and see what he advises.  I actually trust this doctor!  He has been a blessing!  I am not able to take ibuprofen for more than a day or 2 or it interacts with the xanax so that is why I need to know if the aspirin would be an issue or not!

 

I am sorry you have had this happen to you!  You do give me hope, thank you so much! 

[[to...]]

Oh dear tolnbltp, I am so sorry.  I had dreadful anxiety both times I jumped and anxiety can minic all sorts of physical conditions that are scary like heart problems, stroke, seizure, etc.  The time I jumped prematurely the anxiety was so bad that when I reinstated/updosed, the clonazepam couldn't override it.  It took 2-3 days for everything to simmer down for me.  It is likely anxiety causing your distress but if you feel you need to get checked out medically, then that is what you should do.

 

Hi Kate08,

Thank you!  I am pretty sure this has all been wd and anxiety and could be the migraine that Shotsy spoke about as I have been having some pretty bad headaches the last couple weeks too!  I have been diagnoses with migraines about 6 years ago, but they had gotten better until recently!  I am guessing too that the anxiety has brought them on along with having so much withdrawal the last few months.  My anxiety has worsened the last few months too with the histamine problems getting worse.

 

Thank you for sharing your experience!  It helps me and reminds me of what I have known for a long time and that is that the anxiety and wd can do all sorts of things to us.  My CNS is so out of whack right now and the jump made it so much worse.  I thought a few days of increasing my dose would have helped a lot more than it has!  Guess that I just have to keep waiting and doing what I can to get through it!  It is so hard at this point!  I hope trying the jump did not mess my system up so bad that it will take a long time to recover!  I need relief.

 

I know the headaches have gotten 90% worse since the jump and reinstatement!

 

If I thought that this was a condition that needed medical treatment I would definitely go to the ER.

 

Thanks for your support!!  :smitten:

[[Ka...]]

Awww tolnbltp, you are welcome.  You remind me that I am grateful to have my taper and withdrawl behind me and I never want to go through that again ... which is the reason I purged all benzos and Z drugs from my house after I finished my taper.  I didn't want returning to benzos to be an easy option!!

[[to...]]

Awww tolnbltp, you are welcome.  You remind me that I am grateful to have my taper and withdrawl behind me and I never want to go through that again ... which is the reason I purged all benzos and Z drugs from my house after I finished my taper.  I didn't want returning to benzos to be an easy option!!

 

Hi Kate08,

 

I will be happy to be where you are one day with the taper and withdrawal behind me!  That will be such a wonderful time.

 

I think you are so SMART to purge the benzos and Z drugs and I plan to do the same once I am done with this taper.  I would not want to have the temptation in my home either!  I know that once I get down low enough in dose and jump - it will be when I am confident that I will no longer need the meds.    I think that is a nightmare waiting to happen not getting rid of them!

 

Thanks again for your support!!

 

:smitten:

[[to...]]

I keep having really bad headaches since the jump and reinstatement.  One started yesterday and has not gone away!  I am afraid to take anything as the other day when I had that awful episode, I had taken a ibuprofen and I do not know if it made things worse!  Never had an issue with it before but right now my CNS is so sensitive.

 

Just hoping and praying to feel better!  I need some relief!!

 

I wanted to take a low dose aspirin, but I have read it stays in your system for days and if I were to have a reaction to it, I do not know how bad that could be!!  If what happened the other day happens again, I may have to try the aspirin and see if it helps as I do not want to take any additional doses of xanax if I do not have to!  That would have to be an emergency - like the other day was!!!

 

I am guessing it is just taking time to recover but from what I have read, it is usually around a week before people start to feel better and it has been a week and a half since the reinstatement and 7 days since the up dose.    I also know everyone is different!!  Does not make this any easier!

 

This is just so hard!!!  Makes me very sad and frustrated!

[[to...]]

Anyone have any suggestions on how to get better from all this?  I seem to be getting worse rather than getting better.  This is truly hell on earth!!  I think this is as bad as the cold turkey, just in different ways. 

 

Migraines, dizziness, internal shaking, nausea, stomach hurts etc

 

 

[[Li...]]

I am so sorry you are suffering so much.  :-[Just awful. Have you noticed any pattern to your symptoms-are they worse after food or at a certain time of day?

[[to...]]

I am so sorry you are suffering so much.  :-[Just awful. Have you noticed any pattern to your symptoms-are they worse after food or at a certain time of day?

 

Thank you!  They seem to be worse about an hour or so after my first dose in the morning and they seem a little better for an hour after dose 2 in the afternoon, then it gets bad again until after I take dose 3.  I dose at 10:45 am, 3:15 pm and 8:15 pm which is what I had been doing before I tried the jump.  It is all really bad.  Seems like interdose and also just wd but this is so much worse than before I did the jump.  I have been dealing with histamine issues for months before this and that seems to be worse too.  Eating is a chore and I have such a limited diet.  This just feels like cold turkey with the migraines and dizziness and just sitting I am shaky inside and out.  I really thought increasing the dose would help but it has not.  Been 8 days since I did that.  I know it was not a big increase, .174 to .1875mg but I thought it would be enough to help me to get back to at least where I was before the jump - which is the biggest mistake I have made since I started tapering 3 1/2 years ago!