The Long Hold Support Group

[[Va...]]

When I get to the point of feeling good I hold for another couple of weeks to get a break (good for body and soul) and in the hopes that my brain can do some repair while not stressed (avoiding insult to injury)  It seems to be working out and the earlier 4 month hold to fix a too rapid taper has worked in making the continued taper fairly easy.  I think a too rapid can be "righted" by holding long enough to feel well before proceeding.  That's my experience, fwiw.  I'll have no issue with holding as long as necessary if things go sideways.

I need to remind myself to hold longer after each cut as small as they are and even after I feel good again for a few days.  The last cut snuck up on me and although sxs are not terrible, they were probably avoidable.  --V

[[li...]]

So all symptoms are avoidable with a long enough hold and a slow enough taper?  Lord knows I was tapering slow enough doing 1% a month before this hold that is now 5 1/2 months old. I still can't distinguish between side effects and withdrawal effects. Praying every day that some day it will be obvious and I will know what to do. In the meantime I am still holding and still pretty non-functional.

Love y'all

Liza

[[He...]]

Liza gal...

I didn't know there was a difference between side effects and withdrawal symptoms. I thought these were just interchangeable terminology.

 

Some one, please clarify this.

 

Thanks Heathcliff

[[Ho...]]

Liza gal...

I didn't know there was a difference between side effects and withdrawal symptoms. I thought these were just interchangeable terminology.

 

Some one, please clarify this.

 

Thanks Heathcliff

 

Side effects are symptoms caused by the drug itself in addition to it's intended effect (just a few common ones listed for Valium are drowsiness, fatigue, confusion, depression, headache, constipation, dizziness, low blood pressure). You get the idea.  Withdrawal symptoms are due to removal of the drug from the body and result from down regulated GABA receptors.  They are caused by two different things, although there is some overlap between side effects and withdrawal symptoms (as in fatigue can be both a side effect and a withdrawal symptom. In the midst of withdrawal/tapering, I think it would be really hard to know where something was a true "side effect" or just a withdrawal symptom.  I tend to just assume most of mine is withdrawal.  I do get low blood pressure after a dose so we can consider that a side effect.

[[Va...]]

So all symptoms are avoidable with a long enough hold and a slow enough taper?  Lord knows I was tapering slow enough doing 1% a month before this hold that is now 5 1/2 months old. I still can't distinguish between side effects and withdrawal effects. Praying every day that some day it will be obvious and I will know what to do. In the meantime I am still holding and still pretty non-functional.

Love y'all

Liza

That's the intended idea  . Hope you get there soon!--V

[[li...]]

Why have so many people told me that it's really rare and ridiculous to think I'm going to get to 100% functioning?

[[jr...]]

Why have so many people told me that it's really rare and ridiculous to think I'm going to get to 100% functioning?

 

are you dosing once per day?

[[Va...]]

Why have so many people told me that it's really rare and ridiculous to think I'm going to get to 100% functioning?

It may not be 100% but even 75 to 85 is good. I haven't been at 100% of what I was pre benzo before I ever started to taper.  --V

[[He...]]

Hope 76

Thanks for straightening out the difference between withdrawal symptoms and side effects of a drug.

Now I get it!

 

Heathcliff

[[li...]]

JR I'm dosing four times a day since my crOss from ativan 15 months ago

 

V--I'll take that 75-85% for sure. I lived at that for three years after 6 months of acute withdrawal last time. Managed very well. Thx!

[[Ho...]]

Hope 76

Thanks for straightening out the difference between withdrawal symptoms and side effects of a drug.

Now I get it!

 

Heathcliff

 

[[be...]]

Hello everyone, hope you all are doing better, that would be so lovely for some that are suffering so. Well I must Fess up, I am getting ready to restart my Taper tomorrow, and pulled out my Notebook, I usually go 2months for holds, and my last taper was 5/13/2016, now that is not two months, unless I have clearly lost my mind and  right now I indeed do feel that way. So for everyone we all have something we must bear going though this BB, and so this "TURTLE INDEED IS NOT TRACKING WELL AT ALL", WELL AN EXTRA MONTH, OK, SO I SAY TO MY FRIENDS WATCH ME, I MAY NEED MORE HELP THAN I THOUGHT. :

[[fr...]]

  BG, Are you sure you didn't start the taper on that date and then start holding again in JUne?  I know what you mean though, time goes by so fast.  Good luck with the turtle taper, I'm sure you will be fine.

[[li...]]

Before I consider updosing, I wanted to ask opinion about one other thing (CUZ one of my symptoms is fear of everything). When I crossed from ativan, I was dosing six times a day.  Somehow I landed at four doses a day Of klonopin despite the half life. When I took it years ago I only dosed at night and I totally get the idea of multiple doses a day (though I'm constantly sedated, fogged, DR'ed, etc) but my doses are uneven. The evening dose is for 8 hours and the doses during the day every 5 1/2 or so. Has anyone ever tried to reduce the number of doses?  Like if I did three a day it would be an even 8 hour dose?  My doc says it will make my sedation and fog Worse. I know someone who couldn't tolerate four doses and went to three. Am I overthinking it?  I'm trying anything tO stabilize before I updose .06 mg of klonopin where I started tapering from this time last year. Don't want to screw this up any more. Love y'all

Liza

[[He...]]

BeGood,

 

Best of luck on your beginning to taper again.

Easy sailing, and peace all the way to a successful and pain free jump! :thumbsup:

 

Heathcliff

[[be...]]

Thanks Free and Heathcliff, Free you are right, Donna found a post and I wrote down the wrong month, well I am doing this early am, oh well, I should have listened, Donna went all through the posts. Thanks Heathcliff, I am all ready to restart tomorrow. So Glad that our Master did not see my big "BOO BOO"  so setting the record straight it has only been two months end of Story. :D :smitten: :smitten:

[[li...]]

Hope it goes well BG!

[[an...]]

Liza,

 

Why did you decide on 4 doses a day?  Was it because of inter dose withdrawal?  I have no experience with K, but it seems that others dose twice a day because of the longer half-life.  I am sure someone else will chime in.

 

Hugs

 

Anne

[[li...]]

Thanks Anne. Actually I looked at my notes and I was dosing Ativan five times a day because of interdose.  When I crossed over I was told to swap out one dose of A for one dose of K to end up at four doses per the woman who was running the FB support group I was in for microtapering. She was a CT and we were all guinea pigs and someone else she knew was dosing K four times a day and suggested it to me. One of the other gals in the group said she was told to do that too and changed to three and felt much better. I don't feel "interdose" like I'm underdosed everyday--I just have major brain stuff going on all of the time but I don't know if it's side effects or withdrawal. With Ativan it was really easy to tell!  I could feel it leaving my body. I tested as a slow metabolizer a couple years ago so I'm just reconsidering this option but my brain can't problem solve and I'm terribly afraid to feel worse.

[[an...]]

Liza,

 

I hope someone else provides some input.  I think the only way you will know is to decrease to three doses.  I think your current dose is 1.19 mg?  Each of the three doses would be 0.397 mg.  If you were to see some improvement, you could then think about decreasing to 2 doses per day.  If you are a slow metabolizer of K, the four doses might be contributing to side effects of the drug itself. 

 

I remember when I first started Ativan at 1.5 mg.  It helped with my BP spikes (which is why I was prescribed Ativan), but I immediately  experienced other problems which I know were due to the side effects of the drug and not withdrawal.

 

Again, hopefully someone else who is experienced with K will chime in here.

 

Anne

[[li...]]

Thanks Anne!  Bless you!

[[be...]]

Hope it goes well BG!

Thanks Liza, I only take one dose of V a day so I don't know anything about dosing, I am thinking of you always Liza, hang in there.

[[Va...]]

Hello everyone, hope you all are doing better, that would be so lovely for some that are suffering so. Well I must Fess up, I am getting ready to restart my Taper tomorrow, and pulled out my Notebook, I usually go 2months for holds, and my last taper was 5/13/2016, now that is not two months, unless I have clearly lost my mind and  right now I indeed do feel that way. So for everyone we all have something we must bear going though this BB, and so this "TURTLE INDEED IS NOT TRACKING WELL AT ALL", WELL AN EXTRA MONTH, OK, SO I SAY TO MY FRIENDS WATCH ME, I MAY NEED MORE HELP THAN I THOUGHT. :

You think you can skip this past me?

[[Va...]]

Before I consider updosing, I wanted to ask opinion about one other thing (CUZ one of my symptoms is fear of everything). When I crossed from ativan, I was dosing six times a day.  Somehow I landed at four doses a day Of klonopin despite the half life. When I took it years ago I only dosed at night and I totally get the idea of multiple doses a day (though I'm constantly sedated, fogged, DR'ed, etc) but my doses are uneven. The evening dose is for 8 hours and the doses during the day every 5 1/2 or so. Has anyone ever tried to reduce the number of doses?  Like if I did three a day it would be an even 8 hour dose?  My doc says it will make my sedation and fog Worse. I know someone who couldn't tolerate four doses and went to three. Am I overthinking it?  I'm trying anything tO stabilize before I updose .06 mg of klonopin where I started tapering from this time last year. Don't want to screw this up any more. Love y'all

Liza

I work on one dose at a time when I reduce but V may be different than K. Why does your doc think it will sedate you? I would be interested to hear the rationale. V doesn't sedate me anymore at all. I wonder if K is similar. I thought V was the most sedating of them all but with these stupid benzos you never know lol. You won't screw anything up. You're being proactive and figuring out what to do.  --V

[[Va...]]

Thanks Anne. Actually I looked at my notes and I was dosing Ativan five times a day because of interdose.  When I crossed over I was told to swap out one dose of A for one dose of K to end up at four doses per the woman who was running the FB support group I was in for microtapering. She was a CT and we were all guinea pigs and someone else she knew was dosing K four times a day and suggested it to me. One of the other gals in the group said she was told to do that too and changed to three and felt much better. I don't feel "interdose" like I'm underdosed everyday--I just have major brain stuff going on all of the time but I don't know if it's side effects or withdrawal. With Ativan it was really easy to tell!  I could feel it leaving my body. I tested as a slow metabolizer a couple years ago so I'm just reconsidering this option but my brain can't problem solve and I'm terribly afraid to feel worse.

Liza are you dosing 4 times a day?  I may have misread your earlier post and thought you were dosing 3 times and considering 4. I did find this interesting but keep in mind it's anecdotal and someone's individual experience.

 

"I feel 10 times better now than I did this morning... only minor heart palps, minor headache, the fatigue went away, and my anxiety/depression are basically gone. Its almost like once the Klonopin wears off each afternoon I start to feel better... could this be possible?"

 

I'll keep researching this.... --V