Benzo Taper please help Dalmane - Klonopin

[[Pa...]]

 

@pamster

 

2 Days 27.4 mg Dalmadorm the other 13.72 mg

and 1.7mg Clonazepam

 

I wonder if you might be able to substitute .5 mg Klonopin for the Dalmane and take that for a week or two, what do you think?  Taking a consistent dose every day is important, I hope you can do this. 

 

 

 

[[Fa...]]

Hello Pamster,

 

I don't think it's enough, at the moment I already have restless burning arms at night. That was only the case with Klonopin, which is why the doctor gave me Flurazepam.

 

 

[[Pa...]]

I'm sorry Falke, I was under the impression you wanted to take only the Klonopin.  Are you interested in taking a combination and if so which ones?

[[Fa...]]

Hello Pamster,

 

I would prefer nothing more.

A combination is certainly difficult...since both are no longer effective.

So I already take Dalmane 13.71 mg and Klonopin 1.5mg.

What is better now I can not judge.

 

You had little problems to complete the Klonopin or?

 

Is it at all possible to exchange Dalmane for Klonopin?

 

What else is not available to me.

 

Greetings

[[Pa...]]

Its certainly possible to cross over your Dalmane to Klonopin and if you're experiencing tolerance then going to a higher combined dose would be needed to stabilize.  Is your doctor willing to switch you to Klonopin and increase your dose long enough for you to get stable?

 

I quit Klonopin cold turkey because I didn't realize it needed to be tapered but I'm glad I did because I don't think I would have had the strength, courage, will power and determination to taper.

[[Fa...]]

Hello Pamster,

 

Yes, I should actually up the Flurazepam first.

 

Or take up to 4/6 mg clonazepam when I was on 2mg flurazepam.

 

Yes I mixed it myself.

I've been trying to get rid of this stuff since 2016, I've never been stable. Maybe I have become resistant.

 

Yes it is seeee very exhausting and I don't want anymore. Constant withdrawal symptoms again and again from the front....

 

Best regards

[[Fa...]]

Hello,

 

I feel Klonopin is very hard in withdrawal, but Dalmane is not much easier either.... it stays in the body for so long. And withdrawal symptoms also stay very long. I didn't know that before, unfortunately. Even tapering like I did with the Flurazepam was too fast for me. Suddenly the symptoms piled up and came with full force, started at 3.5mg and on 2mg not to endure.

 

I also do not believe that 0.5mg Klonopin = 30mg Flurazepam.

Flurazepam cumulates and has almost 7 times the effect after about 5 days.

 

I wish I had known that before.

Sad greetings

[[Qu...]]

Dalmane is harder than it seems, IMHO. Also cross over isn't always straightforward. Even after tapering I'm arrived at a point where I may have severe withdrawal effects if I stop taking it but not immediately, on average 6-7d after.

I even started having suicidal thoughts. I tried to "fix" insomnia taking zolpidem, which gave me good nights before stopping to work. And I guess Pamster is right about being skeptical of Zolpidem short half life. Basically my psy told me the same: stuff like suicidal thoughts and akathisia (I never had it before) could be due to Zolpidem. Rapid onset, plasmatic peak in short time, then *bump*. I withdraw my advice of taking Zolpidem on a regular basis. Better trying 30mg Dalmane or combined with clonazepam.

[[Fa...]]

Danke Quarantäne,

 

aber wie soll ich dan je von 30mg Flurazepam loskommen? Vorausgesetzt es wirkt.

Ich bin hoffnungslos verloren.

[[Pa...]]

Dalmane is harder than it seems, IMHO. Also cross over isn't always straightforward. Even after tapering I'm arrived at a point where I may have severe withdrawal effects if I stop taking it but not immediately, on average 6-7d after.

I even started having suicidal thoughts. I tried to "fix" insomnia taking zolpidem, which gave me good nights before stopping to work. And I guess Pamster is right about being skeptical of Zolpidem short half life. Basically my psy told me the same: stuff like suicidal thoughts and akathisia (I never had it before) could be due to Zolpidem. Rapid onset, plasmatic peak in short time, then *bump*. I withdraw my advice of taking Zolpidem on a regular basis. Better trying 30mg Dalmane or combined with clonazepam.

 

This is what Zolpidem did to me, I'm truly afraid of this drug, it wasn't as painful to withdraw from but a whole lot scarier.

[[Fa...]]

Hello Pamster,

 

but it is faster out of the body.

Do you have any other advice for me?

Hold out?

I should have done this on 2mg, I blame myself so much.

By taking it again I just made everything worse and more difficult.

Did you have anything to support you when you ended Klonopin?

 

Lg

[[Fa...]]

Hello,

 

when I got it a few weeks ago on 2mg Flurazepam I got from the doctor yes again Clonazepam and should be up to 4mg....

I took 2mg Flurazepam and 3mg Clonazepam for one day. But the Clonazepam worked but no longer as before. I got scared and took half again 13.71mg Flurazepam plus 1.5mg Klonopin.

Since then I have this tingling in my head....I should have left the flurazepam right? Why is it all so hard....is the head screaming for flurazepam now? Before I never had this symptom....but many others that disappeared immediately by taking Klonopin.

I think I'm doing everything wrong....I'm scared of benzos, many do well with diazepam...I wish I knew a solution and could slowly reduce. But I may be reading too much....some don't succeed in stabilizing....and then??? How does it go then.

I have only read bad things about flurazepam and clonazepam so far...it almost makes me go insane.

 

Lg

[[Qu...]]

Obviously you will not read good reviews for psy drugs here.

 

You didn't even try a week on a stable dosage and now you're looking for diazepam. It makes no sense.

You updosed flurazepam because you were afraid clonazepam worked less instead of increasing klonopine. Why? Try to reduce your anxiety and stick to a plan.

 

Fluorazepam and Clorazepam are long half life drugs. A single day change in dosage likely won't give you a bad hit the day after. If any it will be after some days.

Anyhow erratic switchings don't help. Just give you more fluctuations in your plasmatic levels.

[[Pa...]]

I agree with Quarantadue, your erratic dosing is doing you no favors, it would be best if you decided on a dose of whatever benzodiazepine you feel the most comfortable on, picked a dose and take that consistently for a week at least, the same dose, the same time or times every day.  You can't begin to know what your body actually needs unless you stick to a plan, changing your dose daily is making things worse.

 

Don't be so hard on yourself, self recrimination will just make you feel worse so my advice is to take control of your situation, you can do this.

[[Fa...]]

Hello,

 

yes you are both right.

I have no plan. Since I am afraid of both medications that they no longer work.

And then to taper again,

 

I know no one can recommend anything,

But maybe say how you would possibly try it.

Kind regards

[[Qu...]]

Describe better your symptoms. At least your worst symptoms.

 

We know you are suffering, but try to describe them better.

 

Insomnia? Anxiety? Depression?

 

I guess if you started Dalmane you have trouble with sleeping but you don't mention insomnia as your giggest issue. Anyway you may try a sleep aid to get some relief.

 

Strong depression could be discussed with a Doc / Psy.

 

 

 

 

 

[[Fa...]]

Hello,

 

my symptoms go from to... I can't find a stable dose with Flurazepam. It has never been hynotic at 13.71 mg either. But I was able to function. With Klonopin I failed twice....the half life was no longer enough.

 

I only ever saw one doctor, back in 2017 he put me on 120mg oxazepam at the clinic. Every 4-5 hours withdrawal. I was incapable of anything else. I have tears running down my face when I think about it. Then in 2017 I was put on 4.5mg of Klonopin before discharge. It helped at that time. I have been reducing since 2016....

As you can see in the signature I managed to get rid of the klonopin.

When reducing flurazepam I was apparently too fast. And the drug I always took there was suddenly nothing. I had to take another company, but it doesn't work that way.

I have many symptoms, can no longer concentrate, restlessness, anxiety, head tingling, numb toes, sleep disturbances, friends I do not feel etc etc....

[[Fa...]]

Ich wünsche mir nur noch Ruhe... ohne Entzugserscheinungen. Ich habe alles aus dem Ashton erlebt, es reicht doch irgendwann.

Mehr kann ich nicht mehr ertragen.

 

[[Fa...]]

And stability how can I achieve? And with what?

Klonopin is terrible, I think... nevertheless I have taken it...why?

Flurazepam is also hard...and 13.71mg doesn't help anymore.

What chance do I have left?

I don't.

None.

[[Pa...]]

Hello Falke,

 

This is the last time I'll be addressing your questions on this thread because I feel like we're going around in circles.  You've been given some sound advice about finding a dose of benzo's that will help you become stable, yes, it will most likely be an increase because your body has become tolerant to the dose you're currently taking but if you want relief from your symptoms, this is probably what will have to happen.

 

The drugs haven't stopped working for you, what has stopped working is the dose you're taking so if you want relief, you have two choices. 

 

1. Increase your dose of whatever drugs you decide upon, it may take awhile to get stable but once you get stable you'll have another choice to make.  When you become tolerant to the new dose, will you increase it again or decide at that time to taper off and recover?

 

2. Begin your taper now, decide that you're going to be miserable any way you look at it so you might as well get this over with, the only way out of this benzodiazepine nightmare is through it and that means pain.

 

If you decide you'd like to taper now, my suggestion would be to start a new thread that will concentrate on pill amounts and taper rates and leave this back and forth behind.  Indecision is very hard on us, it makes us feel stress and stress makes our symptoms worse, so I feel that if you can make a decision, whatever it is, you'll feel better.

 

I wish you the best whatever you decide.

 

Pamster

 

 

 

[[Fa...]]

Dear Pamster,

 

thank you, so I understand. Either I dose higher...and hope it stabilizes...then go down again bit by bit. If it does not stabilize the same problem.

 

Or unstable now creep out. After all I have experienced so far seems to me almost death more beautiful.

I do not want to die, but never mind

 

 

[[Qu...]]

You will not die.

 

Just listened a short video from the addiction centre of the Hospital of Verona, the only one in Italy where high dose users (min. 5 times therapeutic dosage) are treated with flumazenil. In short:

- add 2mg klonopine then start cross over to clonazepam, clonazepam has anticonvulsant properties and long half life

- rule of the thumb for conversion: if you feel anxious updose, if you feel sleepy reduce it. There is no such thing like benzo overdose, you won't die updosing. If you are already depressed, your symptoms likely will worsen because of the effect of benzos

- once you find a decent level hold for one or two weeks then taper at your own pace.

 

It's not so different from Ashton manual and it's useful for klonopine users.

[[Fa...]]

I hate Klonopin!

 

Dear thanks quarantine ,

 

you are very helpful, although you are also very bad. You seem to have a big heart, do not forget that❤

You are really a wonderful person.

Love greetings

[[Fa...]]

Good morning,

 

So it makes sense to get rid of or replace Dalmane first.

And then Klonopin down.

 

Is it understood correctly like this?

 

Lg

[[Li...]]

Per Ashton, Dalmane/flurazepam is less potent and has a longer half-life than Klonopin/clonazepam. Per USP, Dalmane is also freely soluble in water.  These properties suggest Dalmane might be a better choice for titration than Klonopin.

 

Have you considered substituting additional Dalmane for whatever dose of Klonopin you are taking and then tapering Dalmane?

 

Or, if that is not an option, have you considered tapering the Klonopin first while holding constant whatever dose of Dalmane you need to function?