Please help me stabilize & taper-Far to go-DR-Visual Distortions-loosing hope

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Hi Pamster,

I'm cog fogged & feeling 'off' right now, but want to try to keep contact. I've been wanting to much lately, but it's just been hard(Can't explain). I don't know if I'd call myself stable. I'm still having DR with visual distortions, poor cognition, mood swings, depression, 24/7. I never feel normal or like myself. I don't know if I have DP, too. I'm trying to quit coffee(can't have anything acidic..) but can't cold turkey,(worse cog fog, depression, memory, lack of motivation, etc)-Not sure if I can function without caffeine entirely or not. so trying to use caffeine water as a replacement & it's hard to gage its effects(perhaps harder due to the state of my benzo brain), so its been inconsistant & made this road bumpier.

I don't know if the Caffeine water itself has inconsistent amounts of caffeine or what. But one day, ill be Alert & motivated & another, overstimulated, frozen with anxiety & or super irritable, then sobbing,insomnia,  if too much..some days I'm ok in am , then can't keep eyes open by 2pm...Trying to find my balance-of course, it would be ideal to be on no caffeine, but trying to survive best 8 can. It's got less caffeine than coffee but is synthetic, so different. A strong cup of coffee Or 2 will keep me awake all day. This stuff  can sometimes give me a bigger jolt  than coffee, but then I think I can crash into either fatigue or depression later in day(I can't figure it out)-so is like, I'm still in withdrawl from Ｃｏｆｆｅｅ I guess.. sorry ramble. Would like to find my sweet spot with this junk hold then wean off if could.

 

I'm on .25 Xanax 4times per day, every 4 hours- been consistently within 30m of dosing on the same time for past two weeks Ie: goal 6am, 10am, 2pm, 6pm-I've been within 30m of those times every 4hours for 2weeks

Bed: 1X 1.5K-9:30-10pm-try for 9:45, but if too tired, dose at 9:30, if too awake or have a late dinner, can be 10pm. Same thing-within 30m of same time each day for 2weeks.

Whatever the case May be with what's causing what-no I'm not stable-one day I have enough energy, motivation, & concentration to get some chores done, or walk my dogs(hard going out there with the DR visual stuff), then crash for rest of day, some days I'm just tired & crying all day. I can't trust my moods nor motivation levels etc. I know the switch to caffeine water is playing with me. Some days I can feel some good feelings, at least temporarily & some days I have hopelessness, what I call-can't feel the good, at all & I know it's not right & Brain is sick, but I can't self sooth, when I get like that, just try to ride it out in bed. I wake with panic or dread nearly every morning. Not sure if that started with the caffeine water Or if it has been there awhile. I never get a full nights sleep. . Oh & I have NO short term memory, it's awful-Worst it's ever been. Not sure if Xanax makes that worse than k pin or what.

 

I watched some you tube videos of people off their benzos having very similar DR, visual distortions & panic waking, several months or years off & it truly scared me.

 

I don't really know what kindling is, but I think maybe I have it.?

I'm not sure if I'm having interdose withdrawl from klonopin? Or am messed up from cold turkey half of it when switched to half Xanax?

I presume I'm in tolerance withdrawl from both benzos at this point?

Would like to here peoples thoughts on what if anything I should do with the klonopin vs Xanax?

Ie. Try to move some klonopin to am?

Switch back to all k pin? I was very depressed & tired that way. I do get some, ok moments given the circumstances on Xanax in day time. And the process f trying to do an equal swap is daunting.

Keep all the same & sart micro taper?

I feel stuck in a web as far as moving doses of these 2 meds around in attempt to get ri$ of the DR visual stuff, but I can't stay like this for another year. I can't drive! There's so many other Drs appointments etc I need to be Tending to but I can't. Never been this helpless. My S.O. Is doing all he can as my caretaker, but can only do so much. He takes me to as many doctors appointments as he's available to help with. I'm very low functioning. And not just from benzos but other illnesses. But mostly benzos, I guess. I do Laundry, dishes, vacuum, wash & medicate dogs, walk them when I can, but it hurts me physically, keep linens clean(towels/beds), clean kitchen & baths(at least in stages-toilet one day, sink next etc). And I shower every day. S.O. Does all else, works, shops, cooks, Yard.

My doc is not benzo wise, but I'm scared to make a move, as this p doc doesn't push wean. I would love a doc to help me 𝗙𝗶𝘅 all this too. Searching for one in this state is overwhelming, like alll else. But I think I need a good one in my court...

I may look for a second opinion p doc, but that is scary & hard with my limited capabilities.

 

I'm limited in my abilities, but I'm at a point where I need to make a plan on how to start micro tapering. I'm going to need much patient help. I'll probably need to do dry taper. No liquor & last time I got compound liquid it felt like placebo, though didn't give it much chance.

Not sure if I should try to get script for .25Xanax for tapering-would be a pain & would have to be same generic.

 

It's going to be hard, because I'm going to need much help, but some days, I just can't get on here & function. It took all my effort to express this ramble. I'm reallly scared. Need to do something.

 

I have loved ones that I've been alienated from for years due to treatment resistant depression. Now realizing the benzos are big contributors & or causing it all now, if not originally. But it's been years of missing my life-my S.O., my dogs, my parents etc, need me, & need me well. They aren't getting any younger. Now I want to Sob. Too much caffeine water? Not enough? Just benzos? Need sleep?

 

Please help.

 

Thanks Pam & to all who take time to read.

Scaredie

 

 

 

[[Pa...]]

You sound defeated Scardie,I'm so sorry, but I feel you're being too hard on yourself.  I know you feel helpless and a burden to others and I can see you want to be well to take care of your parents but your suffering is real and even though we can't convince the people in our lives the injury we've sustained, this doesn't make it any less real. 

 

I would caution you about experimenting with any substances while you're in this condition, the coffee water may sound benign but we don't react to things the same way we would if we weren't going through this, so just be careful.  I gave up coffee for awhile, I was too anxious to enjoy it but when I got further along in my recovery I was able to return to it.

 

I'm not sure what you should do about the Klonopin, does it help you sleep?  I wouldn't worry about kindling, many members talk about it and fear they've ruined their chances of recovery but not enough is known about it to definitively say who falls into that category, so please don't worry.

 

If you feel you're in tolerance withdrawal then the best thing you can do is taper, break this pattern that is holding you hostage.  I know it hurts but so does staying where you are.  Have you thought about using a jewelers scale so you can crush and weigh your pills instead of cutting them?

 

What do you think, are you ready to cut down on one of your midday doses of Xanax?

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Hey Scardie, I am sorry you are struggling so.  I really believe the only way you will stabilize is by not

changing any of your drugs.  Hold where you are for several months.  No more coffee / caffeine or cut it way down.  We are never judging you ET, never feel that way.  We all have gone through this story in one form or another.  We just want to help.  To stabilize, you have to have things on a stable system every day. If you accidentally take a pill late or miss one, it's okay, we all do it.  Just move on to your next dose and back to your regular schedule.  Now I didn't want to give up all my coffee but to cut my caffeine way down, I bought a can of Folgers 1/2 caf, and a can of complete decaf and mixed them together, so I am only getting 1/4 of the caffeine and hardly notice it. 

Pamster was helping you get on the right path.  Hold ET, and eventually your brain and central nervous system will stabilize.  Don't know how long it will take, just know you need to be consistent.

Then, hopefully move on to tapering. 

Here for you always, Mary 🙋🏼🙋🏼😘😘🙏🙏😷

[[Pa...]]

Hi again Scardie,

 

I like Mary's suggestion too, have you thought about holding in order to stabilize?  I don't know if you've hung out on the Long Hold group thread but here's the link in case you'd like to.

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=153201.0

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Thanks Pamster,

 

Thanks for kind words & support.

Yes, I think the caffeine water being synthetic is a big part of its issue, that & my current condition. Do think it's big part of my mood swings recently. Think it's real hard with the DR/cog fog/fatigue, not to have that stimulant effect to push through it, but is double edged sword. Think I'll need to wean off. Sometimes is only thing help me get out of bed & face day. But I hear you. Did you quit coffee cold turkey? Or wean off it? Maybe I'm psyching myself out. But caffeine withdrawl is real for me.

 

I presume I'm in tolerance, not positive. I could be unstable or in interdose kpin withdrawl. Or the two benzos not playing nice together at bed? What do you think? I've been scripted Xanax with  & without kpin, off & on before & never issues like this.

 

Yes, I have a Gemini something..? But even before I was this injured by benzos, but knew I wanted off, I found it seemed impossible to try. But of course I'll try and am grateful you asked.

 

It's been a rough, in bed all day hopeless hod on sobbing, one. So bear with me.

 

I'm not sure which dose would be best to start with? Either 3rd or 4th day xanax(@least till off caffeine water)-think best to maybe keep it to last Xanax dose @ 6pm? or maybe start with one of klonopin s at bed? Then there's the shaving vs crushing? I know I'm going to need as simple & easy as possible. With poor cognition & not being able to see/visually judge right, Oh & im also uncoordinated-(I banged my right elbow 4-5 times this week!lol)well, that just plays into this, ya know?

 

Thanks again

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IM so scared.

 

I've been stuck like this for months. I can't drive, shop, identify if food is good or bad. I think I need to make my way off soon. Or something has to change.

 

Mary thanks for saying you're not judging & trying to be there for me. I love the coffee idea, but I can't have it due to other health problem, can't have acid. So stuck dealing with synthetic caffeine water..

 

I can hold for a bit, get thE caffeine situation under control, & try & stabilize more, but I really need to start planning strategies of how to do this. Really do think so. Soon. Please don't give up on me. I need hope & a plan.

Havnt there been people with dp dr that started to get better after as they tapered? Rather than holding.

 

Sorry I'm emotional & a bit irrational. I hope it doesn't come off mean-spirited. Is not. I'm grateful to you both.

 

 

[[Pa...]]

A plan is a good thing because indecision can be very stressful.  Sometimes when I'm not sure what to do I'll get stressed out but when I make a decision, I feel better.  I don't always make the right decision but because it's mine to make, I accept the consequences.  I hope you can make one too because I can see this is wearing you down.

 

Do you have anyone who could help you with your taper?  Bob7 has made a great video about how he put his pills into capsule form, think how easy it would be to taper if you had someone make them for you. 

 

Bob7 Benzo Dry Taper Method 

     

Dry Taper Math

 

I don't feel the Klonopin and Xanax aren't playing nice together, they have different properties sure but I haven't read anything about them being contraindicated. 

 

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A plan is a good thing because indecision can be very stressful.  Sometimes when I'm not sure what to do I'll get stressed out but when I make a decision, I feel better.  I don't always make the right decision but because it's mine to make, I accept the consequences.  I hope you can make one too because I can see this is wearing you down.

 

Do you have anyone who could help you with your taper?  Bob7 has made a great video about how he put his pills into capsule form, think how easy it would be to taper if you had someone make them for you. 

 

Bob7 Benzo Dry Taper Method 

     

Dry Taper Math

 

I don't feel the Klonopin and Xanax aren't playing nice together, they have different properties sure but I haven't read anything about them being contraindicated.

Thank you Pamster

Very validating. Yes it's wearing on me.

I'm familiar with Bob from when I was on here before. He's great. But, I remember thinking there's no way I could accomplish his video capsule thing. And especially no math.

I do appreciate the links. I'll look them over again, but am doubtful They would work for me. I think S.O. would like to help, but really is too busy. This is part of what's kept me stuck, is being too benzo brained to do these at home titration methods.

Well maybe we can keep on planning on how I can make a plan..?..

I've been getting really disgusted & frustrated(aside from all of my symptoms)each night when I take a handful of pills..ugh

Brain is done for today. I hope we can touch base again soon.

Have a good night.

[[Pa...]]

Maybe you should look into getting the liquid diazepam again, I think you mentioned you'd tried it in the past?

 

 

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Hm,..no I've never taken it before, ever. The thought occurred to me to try & cross over from both the x & k to it, To simplify the taper, but many have said its not Good for those with depression & that it doesn't work for many & or makes them worse. My current p doc wouldn't crosse to enough equal amounts. Also, I tried compounded liquid clonazepam, once & it felt like placebo, although I didn't try it fir to long. My doc won't write compoundseither as doesn't understand them...

 

Bobs thing isn't totally out. Just remember it seemed time consuming, & the math etc. Still have to watch video. It's just early morning, yet. Hubby may be able to help-just think is too busy, really.

 

Wonder if there's another way that's simplistic that I could shave & aweigh my pills? Some simple way for me to understand the math reductions? Maybe do a micro reduction of 5% every few days or something?

 

Then there's, how do I make reductions when I do percentage cut? Ie 5%off totaL x? Then off 𝑻𝒐𝒕𝒂𝒍 k seperately?

 

Also, since this all started after cold turkey half my k for equal mount X, would moving some K to day time possible help me? Since that's the main benzo I've been on fir 10 years? One my brain is so used to & has the longer half life? Interdose withdrawl? Any peeps have experience/thoughts on this?

 

And or possibly crossing back to all k? I'd be scared, & don't think it would be an even swap, & my kpin dont split in half like my X for .25 day doses. I just don't even know how one would do this?

 

I used to take k  something like .5 7 am, .5 1pm, .5 7pm,  2.5 10pm-total 4mg+but I had tapered it Down some, can't remember right now, think got rid of 1pm dose.  But basic Ly like this for past few years.

 

K has been very hard for me to taper.

Thanks

 

 

 

 

[[Pa...]]

My mistake Scradie, I thought I remembered reading you'd tried a liquid something, guess it was Klonopin not Valium.  Bob7 can take you through the measurements and math step by step, he's very kind and patient so I hope you'll give this method some thought.

 

I can see you're all over the place with your taper, I hope you can arrive at a plan soon, I can see how much distress you're in not knowing what to do.  We'll help you whatever you decide but we need your decision. 

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Yes, Pamster, I certainly considered crossing to V when I first came back On here, this time, thinking may be a good way to stabilize out of the DP DR & simplify taper, but then others warned of the things I mentioned etc.

 

I apologize that I'm all over the place with my taper ideas. I will give Bobs method thought, for sure.

 

But, Was hoping maybe others could weigh in with thoughts on the various Ideas I've just mentioned. Maybe some have experience with my 2 meds & or DP DR improving by crossing from x to k? Or the interdose k wd possibility?

Maybe I'm having an adverse effect from x?

 

I don't Know much about the nail file method. Just that it works for some with a scale. Read somewhere someone just reduced there percentage from the weight, rather than converting back to mg. But don't really understand any of that either & my ocd would probably want to know my mg.

 

I'm not sure if you can hold with bobs method?

 

I don't know how to get different Feedback on methods, timelines etc on this? Can you understand me wanting thoughts on these different methods, before I proceed with a plan? Sorry, I'm cog fogged, tired today.

 

Hope this makes sense.

 

Thanks Pamster

 

 

 

 

[[Pa...]]

I just wanted to let you know that you can hold with Bob7's method and if it were me, I'd cross over to Klonopin and eliminate the Xanax but that's only because I've read that it's better to taper from the longer half life benzo's. 

 

If you'd like more input, you might try starting another thread on the direct taper board with your specific question in the title, that might draw in some folks with experience. 

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Thanks Pamster!

3 questions:

How long were you on kpin before your cold turkey?

 

Did you ever get the DO DR visual distortions?

 

When you quit coffee, was it cold turkey? Or did you wean? Did you have withdrawl symptoms?

 

SC

[[Pa...]]

I was on Klonopin for about 5 years before I quit, I did have visual distortions but it wasn't one of my worst symptoms and when I quit coffee it was cold turkey.  It didn't bother me to quit coffee because I was suffering so much from everything else I didn't notice it, when I've gone without it during other times in my life the only symptom I've noticed is a headache.

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Thank you