1st day of DLMT, sx feels like a huge cut? Is this normal?

[[bu...]]

JoJo

I just finished posting about this same problem when I saw your post.

I made a solution of Valium using propylene glycol. I cut only .02 ml, for 7 nights now.

My symptoms were ramped up on day one. Now after 7 nights I’m a mess with full blown wd symptoms. Anxiety, not anticipatory, has not let up. It’s the face burning, chemical anxiety that causes nausea. I have head pressure and migraine that Tylenol and Advil won’t touch. All symptoms a go!!

 

There’s got to be something to the liquid microtaper that some of us can’t handle. Since crossing over to Valium in October, this is the worst I’ve felt and it’s not been pretty. I didn’t feel this bad making 1

or 1/2 mg cuts.

 

Please keep us informed how it goes for you. Thanks

Lg

 

Maybe its a typo, but .02ml would be .002mg (2/one thousandth of a mg)  That's less than .03% of your dose.

[[Ca...]]

Thanks for the input, i think you might be right about it being temporary.  I didn’t give it long enough to really test that.

I know for me it wasnt something I imagined I could push through, but im pretty sure a slightly slower transition or even a subsuquent attempt would have done the trick.. But thats just my gut feeling for my situation... For me it was a reaction, -I thought alcohol, in and of itself, at the time (History), but now know that was a bad guess...

 

All said n done, I just think these potential problems need a little awareness, but not obsession that would deter one from their intended path... I just object to censoring by denial, especially when one may be in a terrible state and their last hope appears to be shattered... -It is not... IMO

 

And thats about all..

 

[[Sa...]]

Thanks for the input, i think you might be right about it being temporary.  I didn’t give it long enough to really test that.

I know for me it wasnt something I imagined I could push through, but im pretty sure a slightly slower transition or even a subsuquent attempt would have done the trick.. But thats just my gut feeling for my situation... For me it was a reaction, -I thought alcohol, in and of itself, at the time (History), but now know that was a bad guess...

 

All said n done, I just think these potential problems need a little awareness, but not obsession that would deter one from their intended path... I just object to censoring by denial, especially when one may be in a terrible state and their last hope appears to be shattered... -It is not... IMO

 

And thats about all..

I think that’s really important for people to see. Thanks again.

[[Be...]]

Thanks for the input, i think you might be right about it being temporary.  I didn’t give it long enough to really test that.

I know for me it wasnt something I imagined I could push through, but im pretty sure a slightly slower transition or even a subsuquent attempt would have done the trick.. But thats just my gut feeling for my situation... For me it was a reaction, -I thought alcohol, in and of itself, at the time (History), but now know that was a bad guess...

 

All said n done, I just think these potential problems need a little awareness, but not obsession that would deter one from their intended path... I just object to censoring by denial, especially when one may be in a terrible state and their last hope appears to be shattered... -It is not... IMO

 

And thats about all..

I think that’s really important for people to see. Thanks again.

 

I fully agree...thanks guys 

[[Ra...]]

Thanks for the concern and information builder.

 

I think I may have gotten myself too worked up yesterday worrying about starting the DLMT, which could have caused my nervousness sx.

 

It was also the 1st time I took a 5 mg pill with 2 mg pills.  Although they were made by the same manufacturer, they could have came from different factories, which could possibly have given them different % of active ingredients.  Just a thought.

 

The name of the manufacturer is usually on the bottle or you can ask the pharmacy.  I find that even changing manufactures causes me issues. I cannot take meds from one company in particular and there are many people complaining about feeling terrible just by switching manufacturers.  You can have your pharmacy stick with one if it bothers you to switch.  Give this process some time... it's a new thing for you but withdrawing with liquid is much easier (at least for me ) than cutting! 

[[Li...]]

Builder

I dissolved 10 mg of V in 1 ml of PG and 9 ml of H2O and reduced .2ml a night. That along with a 5 and 2 mg pill. Typo? I went from 1 ml to .98

I can’t even think math right now. That’s why I’m having my husband cut and weigh my pills.

[[Li...]]

Thanks for the input, i think you might be right about it being temporary.  I didn’t give it long enough to really test that.

I know for me it wasnt something I imagined I could push through, but im pretty sure a slightly slower transition or even a subsuquent attempt would have done the trick.. But thats just my gut feeling for my situation... For me it was a reaction, -I thought alcohol, in and of itself, at the time (History), but now know that was a bad guess...

 

All said n done, I just think these potential problems need a little awareness, but not obsession that would deter one from their intended path... I just object to censoring by denial, especially when one may be in a terrible state and their last hope appears to be shattered... -It is not... IMO

 

And thats about all..

 

I like your attitude! Lord, how I try! But this process can drop anyone to their knees. xx

[[bu...]]

Builder

I dissolved 10 mg of V in 1 ml of PG and 9 ml of H2O and reduced .2ml a night. That along with a 5 and 2 mg pill. Typo? I went from 1 ml to .98

I can’t even think math right now. That’s why I’m having my husband cut and weigh my pills.

 

Then that's the problem!!!

 

You need 2ml of solvent for each mg of benzo.  10mg of valium requires 20ml of solvent.  At the ratio you used (10mg:1ml) you didn't dissolve any of the valium.  You basically did a water-taper. And my attempts at water taper were about as bad as yours.

[[Be...]]

Builder

I dissolved 10 mg of V in 1 ml of PG and 9 ml of H2O and reduced .2ml a night. That along with a 5 and 2 mg pill. Typo? I went from 1 ml to .98

I can’t even think math right now. That’s why I’m having my husband cut and weigh my pills.

 

Hey there!

 

just a fiy: If you went from 1ml to .98ml (using a 1ml=1mg solution) this is actually a.02ml reduction and you did this right lg

 

The post above is actually a typo and the post below is actually in err 

 

JoJo

I just finished posting about this same problem when I saw your post.

I made a solution of Valium using propylene glycol. I cut only .02 ml, for 7 nights now.

My symptoms were ramped up on day one. Now after 7 nights I’m a mess with full blown wd symptoms. Anxiety, not anticipatory, has not let up. It’s the face burning, chemical anxiety that causes nausea. I have head pressure and migraine that Tylenol and Advil won’t touch. All symptoms a go!!

 

There’s got to be something to the liquid microtaper that some of us can’t handle. Since crossing over to Valium in October, this is the worst I’ve felt and it’s not been pretty. I didn’t feel this bad making 1

or 1/2 mg cuts.

 

Please keep us informed how it goes for you. Thanks

Lg

 

Maybe its a typo, but .02ml would be .002mg (2/one thousandth of a mg)  That's less than .03% of your dose.

 

Stick with whatever works best for you. The liquid is actually easier for the majority once one becomes familiar and comfortable using it. Not sure about the PG tho....

 

Keep on trying LG, and never ever give up hope 

[[Li...]]

Thanks Builder and Bella

I’ll keep trying!  Cut and weighed pills last night but didn’t taper anything.

Except for nausea and headache, much better today. Morning cortisol was less intense and had reduced greatly since 4am. Slept in!! Lol

 

You’re awesome to stick around and help us poor souls. Hope someday soon I can actually have half my brain to give support !! Pretty selfish right now. This process is all consuming. XX lg

[[Li...]]

Builder

I dissolved 10 mg of V in 1 ml of PG and 9 ml of H2O and reduced .2ml a night. That along with a 5 and 2 mg pill. Typo? I went from 1 ml to .98

I can’t even think math right now. That’s why I’m having my husband cut and weigh my pills.

 

Then that's the problem!!!

 

You need 2ml of solvent for each mg of benzo.  10mg of valium requires 20ml of solvent.  At the ratio you used (10mg:1ml) you didn't dissolve any of the valium.  You basically did a water-taper. And my attempts at water taper were about as bad as yours.

 

Builder,

And 80 ml of distilled water?

Details please on how you would then taper?!! TY

[[bu...]]

Builder

I dissolved 10 mg of V in 1 ml of PG and 9 ml of H2O and reduced .2ml a night. That along with a 5 and 2 mg pill. Typo? I went from 1 ml to .98

I can’t even think math right now. That’s why I’m having my husband cut and weigh my pills.

 

Then that's the problem!!!

 

You need 2ml of solvent for each mg of benzo.  10mg of valium requires 20ml of solvent.  At the ratio you used (10mg:1ml) you didn't dissolve any of the valium.  You basically did a water-taper. And my attempts at water taper were about as bad as yours.

 

Builder,

And 80 ml of distilled water?

Details please on how you would then taper?!! TY

 

The ratios are always 1mg benzo + 2ml solvent + 8ml water.  (1:2:8 )  And that always makes a .1mg = 1ml solution

 

And you can make multiple days batches by applying the same ratio.  Ex:  2mg + 4ml + 16ml, or 5mg + 10ml + 40ml, or 10mg + 20ml + 80ml, etc.

 

And you taper by just taking less each day.  Suppose your doc gave a scrip for a liquid med and said "take 10tsp the first day, then reduce dose by 1 tsp each day."  Thats a "daily liquid taper"

 

Tell me 1) what benzo you're on, 2) waht is your current dose, and 3) what size are your tablets, and I will help you with a workable plan

[[Li...]]

Hey Builder

I’m on 11 mg of Valium

1mg am

1 mg mid morning

1 mg evening

8 mg at bedtime

 

I have 2 and 5 mg tabs

 

xx

 

[[bu...]]

Hey Builder

I’m on 11 mg of Valium

1mg am

1 mg mid morning

1 mg evening

8 mg at bedtime

 

I have 2 and 5 mg tabs

 

xx

 

OK.  Here's how I would start.  This will be very slow, very safe protocol, using a combo to tablets + liquid.  As you get more comfortable, we can change it, if you want.

 

We'll do 5%/14 days, and 10mg tablets + the rest of the dose liquid.  We will taper the liquid (reduce the liquid amount each day)

 

Combine 10mgs + 20ml PG + 80ml water.

Now you have 100ml of solution, each ml contains .1mg.  (This is really no different than any liquid med you might get at the pharmacy.)

 

11mg X 5% = .55mg

.55mg/14 days = .04mg daily reduction

 

Schedule (by days)

 

10mg tablets + 10ml (1mg) liquid

10mg tablets + 9.6ml (.96mg) liquid

10mg tablets + 9.2ml (.92mg) liquid

10mg tablets + 8.8ml (.88mg) liquid

etc...

 

You just lower the liquid part of your dose by .4ml each day.

 

No one really needs to dose V 4 times a day.  Start by cutting from the morning dose.  (You can take the "mid morning" dose a little early, it you really think you need to)

 

If you haven't figured out how all this works by the time your down to 10mg,  I'll help you start a new schedule.

 

 

And remember, the valium in the liquid is the same valium, from the same tablets, as the rest of your  dose. Its in a different form (liquid) but its the exact same medicine!

 

[[Li...]]

Thank you Builder.

I’ll let you know how it goes.

I’m holding til after Easter so I can hopefully enjoy the day.

Of course I may have questions before then. Poor you and Bella! Lol

 

Thank you so much for your time!! xx

[[Lo...]]

 

That is only 0.03 mg of valium less than I normally take in a day, with only a very small amount in liquid form. 

 

Then its pretty unlikely it caused your sxs.

 

Your tablets vary a lot more than that from dose-to-dose.

"IT" being the actual tiny reduction itself, -or the change to liquid..?

 

"It" being both.  There is no way a .03mg (.2%) reduction could cause any real physical effect.  His tablet doses typically vary 8-10%.

 

And because of its long half-life, there is no way he would feel any change in dose or delivery in 24 hours.  Most folks don't feel a diazepam cut for 7 or 8 days.

 

Taking a dose in liquid form is really no different than swallowing a tablet and chasing it with a glass  of water.  A  tablet turns to liquid within seconds of reaching the  stomach anyway.  The med is absorbed and metabolized exactly the same.

 

Hundreds (maybe thousands) of folks on the BDR forum were doing liquid tapers.  The were tapering off all different benzos, some using Rx liquid, some doing vodka method, some doing milk, etc.  No one ever said anything about a problem switching to liquid.  It only seems to get reported here on BB.

 

I can't tell you how happy I am to have randomly read this post this evening!  Ugh!  Planning to start my DLMT this weekend and was really nervous about all these stories about "your body needing to get accustomed" to liquid.  I could not wrap my head around the "whys" of this but it really did bother me.  As I've mentioned to you before, this darn c/h method, (although it worked well for many of my Xanax buddies), is not working for me.  I just keep getting slammed with cuts.  I can only imagine that it's due to having been on this for soooo long.  Who knows. 

 

Praying that the DLMT works better for me!  Fingers crossed! 

 

Lori

[[Li...]]

Lori, cut and hold didn’t work for me either. Also got slammed. Pharmacy liquid even with teeny cuts didn’t work. Please let me know how the DLMT works for you. Haven’t started yet as I’ve had a busy week planned with family obligations. Tomorrow I start again. Hate to do it as today was best day in a long time. Probably 50% better. Hate to cut knowing symptoms may return full bore

[[Lo...]]

Thought some may find this interesting as I believe that it supports the "fillers" in the pills concept....

 

I have .25 mg, .5 mg, and 1 mg tablets of Xanax.  Ironically, they all weigh the same!  .031

 

I can only assume, based on pure logic, that my .25 mg pills have a lot more fillers in them.  Hence, heaven knows how much I'd be taking by cutting them in half or filing them down.

 

Lori

[[to...]]

following

[[te...]]

Lori

What does that mean , I am fling everyday and going down by 0.001 every couple days .

I am asking about the fillers ? Do you mean I am getting different amounts of pill strength even though I am weighing ?

[[bu...]]

Lori

Do you mean I am getting different amounts of pill strength even though I am weighing ?

 

Yes.

 

But as long as its working, don't worry about it.