Valium to Librium

[Guest [...]]

Also, I've been on V for 2.9 months and concerned about the depression.  How long will it take to get out of my system?

As I mentioned I've severe depression on V B8. I've really been thinking about asking my shrink for L instead. Total elimination of V is about 3 weeks from what I've read.

Staz

[[Su...]]

why they use valium to taper if duration of action is so short

 

Because it's actually not! Here are the values I found after a quick search.

 

Benzodiazepine    Duration (hours)

Chlordiazepoxide    6-10

Clonazepam          8-12

Diazepam            10-24

Where did you find that Outis?  Cant you cit the reference? I've never seen those numbers in any search I have done.

Many papers stick to the Valium duration of action bing 3-4 hours.    Half-life being 20-100.

 

[Guest [ou...]]

http://benzos.tripsit.me/

 

It might not be the most reputable source, but it's the only one I found.

I'm curious whether you can cite even a single paper supporting that ridiculously low figure of yours.

[[Su...]]

http://benzos.tripsit.me/

 

It might not be the most reputable source, but it's the only one I found.

I'm curious whether you can cite even a single paper supporting that ridiculously low figure of yours.

No need to get nasty Outis.  Remember we're talking two different number here the duration of action and the half-life and yes Ill find sources for you..

Your source only stated duration which is actually a term that means nothing in this kind of discussion.

[[Su...]]

hamiltonhealthsciences.ca

 

"Diazepam has a duration of action of approximately 3hrs, and a half life of 20-70hrs.

Routes of Administration Intravenous

• Give drug slowly, as to not cause reactions at the administration site.

• Emergency equipment should be readily available (i.e. Airway protection, and Oxgenation equipment)

Intramuscular

• IM injections are painful and erratically absorbed. If IM route is used, inject deeply into deltoid muscle for maximum absorption

Per-Rectum

• Dose should be doubled Indications

• Anxiety

• Tension

• Alcohol withdrawal

• Anticonvulsant

• Procedural Sedation in:

o Cardioversion

o Gastroscopy

o Esophagoscopy

• Adjunct in

o CP

o Paraplegia o Tetanus

Oral -> 30min, Peak plasma levels after up to 2hrs

IV -> 1-5min, Peaks Immediately with IV administration. IM -> 15-30"

 

No I'm not a computer wiz....

[Guest [ou...]]

Remember we're talking two different number here the duration of action and the half-life

 

Your source only stated duration which is actually a term that means nothing in this kind of discussion.

 

It obviously refers to duration of effects/action.  The half-lives of all 3 benzos I mentioned is measured in days.

[Guest [ou...]]

Diazepam has a duration of action of approximately 3hrs

 

That's interesting, but …

 

hamiltonhealthsciences.ca

 

that's just the homepage.

[[Su...]]

I know but I can't get the info --which is to do with my computer skills not the information in the document.

If you google hamiltonhealthsciences.ca.... and Duration of action Valium it will come up.

 

[[dr...]]

Just to chime in on my own experiences.

 

My Dr offered me Librium, and valium was not an option. It was between klonopin and L.  Librium was the first benzo created and the "weakest."

 

I had been on ativan. The L was a very slow drug compared with ativan which was like lightning. I knew I was in it only to get off the drug, so I was willing to tolerate some anomalous feelings. After all I almost lost my life to this.

 

The dosages for me went down in 5 mg increments until the last 10 mg. I was able to do the taper without math or cutting, or bitter liquids, or numbers flying around in my head. I think this was invaluable to me. I dosed twice a day until I got down to 5 mg, and went to once. It was not a problem.

 

The caps were 5 mg. After the "10 mg step" I had 1 and 2 mg pills compounded. They cost about 1 dollar a pill. To avoid the math and calculation was a godsend to me.

 

By going to librium I was able to visualize my situation easily because my historic dose was 4 mg ativan which was 100 mg librium. Every drop of 5 mg was a 5% drop in my historic dose. It helped my mood and kept me going.

 

Good luck and I wouldn't worry about those numbers and figures. I don't think they matter when compared with your own confidence and "getting used" to any drug you are on before you reject it.

[[Su...]]

Just to chime in on my own experiences.

 

My Dr offered me Librium, and valium was not an option. It was between klonopin and L.  Librium was the first benzo created and the "weakest."

 

I had been on ativan. The L was a very slow drug compared with ativan which was like lightning. I knew I was in it only to get off the drug, so I was willing to tolerate some anomalous feelings. After all I almost lost my life to this.

 

The dosages for me went down in 5 mg increments until the last 10 mg. I was able to do the taper without math or cutting, or bitter liquids, or numbers flying around in my head. I think this was invaluable to me. I dosed twice a day until I got down to 5 mg, and went to once. It was not a problem.

 

The caps were 5 mg. After the "10 mg step" I had 1 and 2 mg pills compounded. They cost about 1 dollar a pill. To avoid the math and calculation was a godsend to me.

 

By going to librium I was able to visualize my situation easily because my historic dose was 4 mg ativan which was 100 mg librium. Every drop of 5 mg was a 5% drop in my historic dose. It helped my mood and kept me going.

 

Good luck and I wouldn't worry about those numbers and figures. I don't think they matter when compared with your own confidence and "getting used" to any drug you are on before you reject it.

 

what a great post Drad dog 

I'm kind of a crusader for "duration of action" around Valium because when I first got to BB people were telling me that what I was feeling was

wrong that I couldn't be feeling what I was feeling!!  It kept me in some severe interdose w/d for too long...

 

So I got the test done --no not a fast metabolizer of Valium.

I kept dosing as I was to keep my blood serum levels even and kept researching.

When i discovered the idea of "duration of action" vs the oft quoted "half life"  (of which there is such a range as to be almost useless for me) then things started to make sense.

I look forward to the day when I can dose once a day with Valium!!

 

And I wish I had researched more about Librium before starting.  There's more and more on the boards regarding this overlooked option I think.

Good luck to all of us!

SS

[[Fr...]]

Just to chime in on my own experiences.

 

My Dr offered me Librium, and valium was not an option. It was between klonopin and L.  Librium was the first benzo created and the "weakest."

 

I had been on ativan. The L was a very slow drug compared with ativan which was like lightning. I knew I was in it only to get off the drug, so I was willing to tolerate some anomalous feelings. After all I almost lost my life to this.

 

The dosages for me went down in 5 mg increments until the last 10 mg. I was able to do the taper without math or cutting, or bitter liquids, or numbers flying around in my head. I think this was invaluable to me. I dosed twice a day until I got down to 5 mg, and went to once. It was not a problem.

 

The caps were 5 mg. After the "10 mg step" I had 1 and 2 mg pills compounded. They cost about 1 dollar a pill. To avoid the math and calculation was a godsend to me.

 

By going to librium I was able to visualize my situation easily because my historic dose was 4 mg ativan which was 100 mg librium. Every drop of 5 mg was a 5% drop in my historic dose. It helped my mood and kept me going.

 

Good luck and I wouldn't worry about those numbers and figures. I don't think they matter when compared with your own confidence and "getting used" to any drug you are on before you reject it.

 

Thank you for sharing. I am going to be tapering Librium soon. I believe you said you were on 4mg Ativan. Were you able to stabilize with your cross over at 35 mg? Did you feel ok doing that? Also how were your 5mg drops? Did you cut the 5mg and hold until you felt better and then reduced again? I was thinking of doing the compounding from the beginning and reducing by 1 mg a month. I tend to be very sensitive to these meds.

[Guest [ou...]]

If you google hamiltonhealthsciences.ca.... and Duration of action Valium it will come up.

 

It appears you might be correct after all. However, I think this is important:

 

Duration of effects. The speed of elimination of a benzodiazepine is obviously important in determining the duration of its effects. However, the duration of apparent action is usually considerably less than the half-life. With most benzodiazepines, noticeable effects usually wear off within a few hours. Nevertheless the drugs, as long as they are present, continue to exert subtle effects within the body. These effects may become apparent during continued use or may appear as withdrawal symptoms when dosage is reduced or the drug is stopped.

[[Fr...]]

Just to chime in on my own experiences.

 

My Dr offered me Librium, and valium was not an option. It was between klonopin and L.  Librium was the first benzo created and the "weakest."

 

I had been on ativan. The L was a very slow drug compared with ativan which was like lightning. I knew I was in it only to get off the drug, so I was willing to tolerate some anomalous feelings. After all I almost lost my life to this.

 

The dosages for me went down in 5 mg increments until the last 10 mg. I was able to do the taper without math or cutting, or bitter liquids, or numbers flying around in my head. I think this was invaluable to me. I dosed twice a day until I got down to 5 mg, and went to once. It was not a problem.

 

The caps were 5 mg. After the "10 mg step" I had 1 and 2 mg pills compounded. They cost about 1 dollar a pill. To avoid the math and calculation was a godsend to me.

 

By going to librium I was able to visualize my situation easily because my historic dose was 4 mg ativan which was 100 mg librium. Every drop of 5 mg was a 5% drop in my historic dose. It helped my mood and kept me going.

 

Good luck and I wouldn't worry about those numbers and figures. I don't think they matter when compared with your own confidence and "getting used" to any drug you are on before you reject it.

 

what a great post Drad dog 

I'm kind of a crusader for "duration of action" around Valium because when I first got to BB people were telling me that what I was feeling was

wrong that I couldn't be feeling what I was feeling!!  It kept me in some severe interdose w/d for too long...

 

So I got the test done --no not a fast metabolizer of Valium.

I kept dosing as I was to keep my blood serum levels even and kept researching.

When i discovered the idea of "duration of action" vs the oft quoted "half life"  (of which there is such a range as to be almost useless for me) then things started to make sense.

I look forward to the day when I can dose once a day with Valium!!

 

And I wish I had researched more about Librium before starting.  There's more and more on the boards regarding this overlooked option I think.

Good luck to all of us!

S

 

Ss

I experienced the same as you on Valium and only lasted about ten days on it. Crossing to Librium now. It’s funny when people tell you the way you are feeling is because you are doing it wrong when really it is just the way the drug is designed to work. I do happen to be a fast metabolizer of V.

[[Bu...]]

I feel ya on the depression Can you have a compound pharmacy make it into liquid form? 

 

What would 9 mg be for Librium?  Also, what kind of side effects/sxs did people feel on Librium? 

 

Also, I've been on V for 2.9 months and concerned about the depression.  How long will it take to get out of my system?

As I mentioned I've severe depression on V B8. I've really been thinking about asking my shrink for L instead. Total elimination of V is about 3 weeks from what I've read.

Staz

[[Su...]]

If you google hamiltonhealthsciences.ca.... and Duration of action Valium it will come up.

 

It appears you might be correct after all. However, I think this is important:

 

Duration of effects. The speed of elimination of a benzodiazepine is obviously important in determining the duration of its effects. However, the duration of apparent action is usually considerably less than the half-life. With most benzodiazepines, noticeable effects usually wear off within a few hours. Nevertheless the drugs, as long as they are present, continue to exert subtle effects within the body. These effects may become apparent during continued use or may appear as withdrawal symptoms when dosage is reduced or the drug is stopped.

 

I think Ashton is simply corroborating my experience and the research I have represented.

[Guest [...]]

I feel ya on the depression Can you have a compound pharmacy make it into liquid form? 

 

What would 9 mg be for Librium?  Also, what kind of side effects/sxs did people feel on Librium? 

 

Also, I've been on V for 2.9 months and concerned about the depression.  How long will it take to get out of my system?

As I mentioned I've severe depression on V B8. I've really been thinking about asking my shrink for L instead. Total elimination of V is about 3 weeks from what I've read.

Staz

The crossover dose is 2.5 mg L to 1mg V. My shrink told me this and I've checked it out so my research agrees with this. So I'd be going to 30mg L from my 12mg of V.

Hope this helps.

Staz

[[Bu...]]

thanks for your info.  would you mind describing your symptoms?  i've had a lot on valium, but i'm also very sensitive to this class of drug. 

 

 

Just to chime in on my own experiences.

 

My Dr offered me Librium, and valium was not an option. It was between klonopin and L.  Librium was the first benzo created and the "weakest."

 

I had been on ativan. The L was a very slow drug compared with ativan which was like lightning. I knew I was in it only to get off the drug, so I was willing to tolerate some anomalous feelings. After all I almost lost my life to this.

 

The dosages for me went down in 5 mg increments until the last 10 mg. I was able to do the taper without math or cutting, or bitter liquids, or numbers flying around in my head. I think this was invaluable to me. I dosed twice a day until I got down to 5 mg, and went to once. It was not a problem.

 

The caps were 5 mg. After the "10 mg step" I had 1 and 2 mg pills compounded. They cost about 1 dollar a pill. To avoid the math and calculation was a godsend to me.

 

By going to librium I was able to visualize my situation easily because my historic dose was 4 mg ativan which was 100 mg librium. Every drop of 5 mg was a 5% drop in my historic dose. It helped my mood and kept me going.

 

Good luck and I wouldn't worry about those numbers and figures. I don't think they matter when compared with your own confidence and "getting used" to any drug you are on before you reject it.

[[dr...]]

Just to chime in on my own experiences.

 

My Dr offered me Librium, and valium was not an option. It was between klonopin and L.  Librium was the first benzo created and the "weakest."

 

I had been on ativan. The L was a very slow drug compared with ativan which was like lightning. I knew I was in it only to get off the drug, so I was willing to tolerate some anomalous feelings. After all I almost lost my life to this.

 

The dosages for me went down in 5 mg increments until the last 10 mg. I was able to do the taper without math or cutting, or bitter liquids, or numbers flying around in my head. I think this was invaluable to me. I dosed twice a day until I got down to 5 mg, and went to once. It was not a problem.

 

The caps were 5 mg. After the "10 mg step" I had 1 and 2 mg pills compounded. They cost about 1 dollar a pill. To avoid the math and calculation was a godsend to me.

 

By going to librium I was able to visualize my situation easily because my historic dose was 4 mg ativan which was 100 mg librium. Every drop of 5 mg was a 5% drop in my historic dose. It helped my mood and kept me going.

 

Good luck and I wouldn't worry about those numbers and figures. I don't think they matter when compared with your own confidence and "getting used" to any drug you are on before you reject it.

 

Thank you for sharing. I am going to be tapering Librium soon. I believe you said you were on 4mg Ativan. Were you able to stabilize with your cross over at 35 mg? Did you feel ok doing that? Also how were your 5mg drops? Did you cut the 5mg and hold until you felt better and then reduced again? I was thinking of doing the compounding from the beginning and reducing by 1 mg a month. I tend to be very sensitive to these meds.

 

I think you are doing a very good thing. Librium is a slow as molasses drug and no matter what the numbers say I think it will enable you to get off more efficently. You can get a rhythm to a kind of day you want, and do it all the way until jumping. The last dose is once a day though.

 

The way it happened for me was I went inpatient for 7 days, reduced 40% of my dose, and then started a 19 month taper. I dropped only when I felt like I could. My dates are listed below. I think you could get by with the 5s and compounding some 1s and 2s. I think you won't have the same roller coaster feeling at that time anyway on Librium. Get exercise every day. Good luck

[[dr...]]

thanks for your info.  would you mind describing your symptoms?  i've had a lot on valium, but i'm also very sensitive to this class of drug. 

 

 

Just to chime in on my own experiences.

 

My Dr offered me Librium, and valium was not an option. It was between klonopin and L.  Librium was the first benzo created and the "weakest."

 

I had been on ativan. The L was a very slow drug compared with ativan which was like lightning. I knew I was in it only to get off the drug, so I was willing to tolerate some anomalous feelings. After all I almost lost my life to this.

 

The dosages for me went down in 5 mg increments until the last 10 mg. I was able to do the taper without math or cutting, or bitter liquids, or numbers flying around in my head. I think this was invaluable to me. I dosed twice a day until I got down to 5 mg, and went to once. It was not a problem.

 

The caps were 5 mg. After the "10 mg step" I had 1 and 2 mg pills compounded. They cost about 1 dollar a pill. To avoid the math and calculation was a godsend to me.

 

By going to librium I was able to visualize my situation easily because my historic dose was 4 mg ativan which was 100 mg librium. Every drop of 5 mg was a 5% drop in my historic dose. It helped my mood and kept me going.

 

Good luck and I wouldn't worry about those numbers and figures. I don't think they matter when compared with your own confidence and "getting used" to any drug you are on before you reject it.

 

 

I don't know what you mean by symptoms.

[[Du...]]

Is it possible to do a crossover if you only dose twice a day? The Ashton method for crossing over and other methods I have seen all require you to be dosing 3 times a day. Is there anyone that has crossed over from K to Valium or Librium that was only dosing twice a day? Tnx

[[Fr...]]

What is your dose again Dub? You need a signature. Do half of each dose at a time. Or if you are on a low dose do half of both doses for a couple weeks then when you are ready switch the rest of the way.

[[dr...]]

Is it possible to do a crossover if you only dose twice a day? The Ashton method for crossing over and other methods I have seen all require you to be dosing 3 times a day. Is there anyone that has crossed over from K to Valium or Librium that was only dosing twice a day? Tnx

 

Yeah, you should post a sig. But when you are taking another med than the one you are on right now, you are going to be in a place you can't predict too well from here. It might be best not to plan on it being more intense than it ends up. You are going in the right direction, and the catastrophic quality of your feelings can be all different and probably more stable on a different benzo, a slower one. And Librium is the slowest of them all. You might not have any of the concerns you have right at this minute on this med now, once you cross over, and stabilize, and get a daily rhythm. The number of times a day you dose could seem very meaningless to you at some point, maybe soon. Take care,

[[Du...]]

Hey guys I take .125 of k when I wake up and .125 of k at night time. I’ll go ahead and update my sig right now thanks!

[[Fr...]]

Dub sub .125k for 2.5V until you feel good. I think maybe two weeks to be safe. Then do the other dose. Crossing is a bit tricky st first because it takes valium a while to build up and K withdrawal comes on pretty quick. The valium can feel really sedating the first few days you take it but you will be happy for the sedation and it doesn’t last long.

 

You may want to think about dosing three times a day. I know for me when K used to work it only lasted about 6 hours. Dosing three times s day helped me a lot with interdose withdrawal. Of course that was before Teva discontinued.

[[Du...]]

Tnx Jen, wouldn’t that be way to fast of a crossover? If K leaves body in 3 days and V takes 9 days to build up?