Looking for help with a cross-over schedule from Ativan to Valium...

[[Ja...]]

thank you, it is hard to believe, but it's helpful to read the success stories which really demonstrate that.

 

today's been rough and so far, everything has been pretty smooth with crossing-over. This is day four of the 2nd change. Not sure if these are Ativan withdrawal symptoms, but trying to manage through this.

 

I'm drinking some tea now and trying to see if some soup will help with not feeling so well. Anxiety was high all day and really hoping this levels out. I've tried many things today to relax and just get through the day.

 

I hope to post the quotes soon as they should be really helpful to others too. Thanks again for all of your support and encouragement.

 

[[Pa...]]

Most of us try so many things to just make it through the day, we just can't believe that there isn't something to make us feel better.  I'm glad you're reaching for things that won't hurt you, too many do.  Deep breathing, calming tea's, books on tape, hopefully you can find the right combination to help you.

[[ro...]]

Hi Jan:

 

Hang in there with your second phase to crossover.  You're kicking Ativan to the curb -- how long are your phases to crossover?

 

My chem dep doc wanted me to be crossed over to valium in three days.  Tried his short crossover and had symptoms.  It took me 26 days with three phases to completely crossover.  I have been told by several benzo buddies that it takes valium about 30 days to accumulate in your system.  I think that's an important point to remember. 

 

Keeping you in my thoughts and prayers for the best outcome as you get crossed over and stabilized.  Good things will result!

 

Rocko   

[[Ol...]]

Jan,

 

Sounds like you are doing really great.  I found that keeping busy really helps me.  For some reason having too much time on my hands is not a good thing for me.  I didn't hear about Valium taking 30 days to take effect.  Thank God I didn't hear that my first 30 days on it or I might have thought I had some withdrawal symptoms.  I guess the fact that I was in the dark about that actually helped me.  lol.  I was on a ton of valium and it just made me tired.  You will be thankful for the naps you have now.  I don't get quite as many now.  I have a couple more weeks of time off so I am really trying to keep busy.  I got a cold or flu for Christmas.  How nice    That's made me slow down.  I tried to take some sudafed but found that it made me feel kind of shaky so I decided to just deal with it.  I am still trying to end this whole thing and get off the last bit but I will tell you that being down so much makes me feel like I can really do this.  You are going to make it too.  Positive attitude works wonders for lots of things.  The reading you are doing is great.  I actually got a few books for Christmas so I am going to be reading for some pleasure for my last couple of weeks off before I get back to reading school books.  I hope you have a happy New Year!!  It is a time to turn over a new leaf and know we can beat this!!!!  It can be a big fight but so worth it when it's over!!  Take care.

 

Oleander

[[Ja...]]

thank you all for your posts....Pamster- it helps me to know that this is part of the process and perhaps I am doing well or better than I think I am ... and managing through the cross-over. Finding things that are comforting and not stressful is key for me. I am feeling a bit better today.

 

Hope it's okay that I reply to all of you within one note! I don't know how else to do that : )

 

Rocko - I too was told by my Dr. to do a quick cross-over and decided it was way too aggressive for me. My first phase was about 11 days. I think I will continue with the same and just monitor how I do in this second phase. I really think it's important to take the time and not go so quickly. I love that you said I am 'kicking ativan to the curb' ! - think I may keep that quote handy and remember each day as I so want to be rid of this medication and on the path towards reducing the valium dosage when the time is right. I will keep that in mind about the 30 days as well and continue to be patient. Thank you for your prayers and well wishes, that means a lot.

 

Oleander - I find that if I have too much time on my hands, things don't go as well for me too. Maybe I am more aware of the symptoms and thinking about this too much in my free-time. I am off of work until next week and am normally on a very rigorous schedule. I have to keep busy or have things planned as otherwise I find that I can't adjust to the free-time as I used to be able to in previous years! So, I completely understand. I hope you enjoy your new books too! One of mine is faith-based and includes very short stories. This one is called "A cup of comfort - big book of prayer" edited by Susan Townsend. These are really inspirational stories of hope from others who have been through trials in their life. I hope you feel better from your cold/flu. Drink lots of tea if you have some and take good care of yourself. Thank you for your inspiration!

 

I really thank you all for your support and encouragement. I hope that I can help you too and anyone else from BBs in some way! Wishing you a year ahead of good health, peaceful days and happiness.

all my best-

-jan

[[Pa...]]

I had to keep busy too.  I would long for the weekend so I could veg, but then the hours of the day would never end and all I could think about was my misery.  It's so much better to be able to go to work, I hated it, but at least it got me out of myself a little. 

[[Ja...]]

Hi, Yes, working has in many ways helped to keep me focused. I took six weeks off this summer for medical leave as I was really sick. It's the first time I've ever had an extended period of time off without a planned schedule. When I went back to work, I was still not feeling well, but pushed on and it helped me to have a schedule again, although I honestly felt terrible many days.

 

I wanted to post the quote from this book I picked up over the holidays. Have been thinking about this a lot and hope this may help anyone else reading my posts. Before I decided to try the cross-over to Valium from Ativan, I was in a constant state of fear and worry about the 'what if's' due to severe withdrawal symptoms from previous attempts to reduce Ativan. I have been trying for going into three years now.

 

"Worry is closely aligned with uncertainty, and uncertainty is practically synonymous with illness. No one with a health issue is free from the worry associated with uncertainty. While it is true that much of what we count on day to day actually is uncertain, illness takes this unpredictability to a higher level and doesn't allow for even the illusion of knowing what the future holds. But, uncertainty and the worry associated with it needed rule your life. No one has the recipe for how to live a certain life...Instead the antidote to uncertainty is to minimize how much you let it haunt you in your daily routine....But, there is one word that can help control your worry and anxiety, and that is 'acceptance.' Acceptance is the key to moving down an optimal healing path....I don't mean you must approve of or be thankful for this unwanted adversity. Rather...you should focus your attention firmly on those things over which you have some control."

 

I realize this is a long quote, but I feel my level of acceptance these past few months through understanding these medications, the side-effects, the options to discontinue, etc. has helped me to move forward and lessen the fear of uncertainty that I was constantly facing. I am still having symptoms daily however, I find that I'm worrying less about them and accepting them. I also have a bit more work to do on acceptance and maybe one day, when I truly feel better, I will fully come to those terms.

 

I hope this is helpful to anyone else. Just wanted to share it. The quote is from a book called "Super Healing" by Julie Silver, MD, Harvard Medical School. There are a few more quotes I may post soon too. It is an excellent book and I'm still getting through it, but finding it really helpful!

[[Pa...]]

Hi Jan,

 

Thank you so much for posting this quote, we have a member who needs to see this NOW, so I'm going to give her the link.  I think it would be nice if you could post this on our Accentuate the Positive board, these are words we all need to hear.

[[ro...]]

Hi Jan:

 

Thank you for your quotes from your reading material.  It is right on -- the only approach to get out of this mess.  I had to accept this whole process, scary as it is. 

 

I have experienced some unpleasant sxs from this last cut to 2.5 mg.  Can't get to sleep and when I do only for a few hours.  But this a.m., I had horrible intrusive thoughts that wouldn't stop even when I told myself to say "stop."  And some slight burning in the arms and hands.  I know these are all par for the course we are on.  My next cut is next week, and I will reduce to 2 mg. 

 

I've been distracted with a house remodel from Nov. to Dec., then putting things back to together for Christmas.  But I think it was a good distraction for me.

 

How are you doing?  Hope your crossover is going smoothly for you.  Ativan can be tough to taper from.  I think valium has been the better taper plan for me.

 

God bless,

Rocko

[[Ja...]]

Hi Pamster - thank you, I am so glad these words will be helpful to someone else. I'll look for the other board to post it to. I really hope to share anything that I can to help and hope it helped the member you shared the link with.

 

Hi Rocko - I am sorry to hear about the symptoms you are having from the latest reduction. I hope they subside soon. I have had some of these as well in the past when making a 25% reduction in Ativan this summer. I have had some intrusive thoughts which I've never had before until this past year. I know it is frightening. They did fade away after I made the change in medication. I will keep you in my prayers. It is good you have the distraction and the home remodeling sounds like an exciting project. I want to thank you and Oleander too for checking in on me these past few weeks and offering me encouragement even while you are going through this yourself. This takes a lot of strength so thank you again.

 

I wanted to share with you and anyone else reading, the good news..and I'll use your quote from earlier this week, but I've officially 'kicked Ativan to the curb' as of Sunday! I decided not to wait the full 10-11 days as I had planned. Going into my third day now of the final phase of the cross-over. I had insomnia last night which was a bit unpleasant - was awake until 5 AM and then slept a few hours. I kept getting up, drinking chamomile tea and reading. There are a few other side effects which I do think are from the Ativan, but nothing drastic and I have to say, I know that I've made the right decision in doing the switch from Ativan to Valium. I honestly did not believe a few months ago that I would be able to make the switch, but I have.

 

On a positive note, I already physically feel better. The change makes me realize how terrible I truly felt especially this past year, which I believe was from daily interdose withdrawal symptoms and perhaps from very poor quality sleep.

 

For some reason, in this short time of reducing Ativan, my senses are becoming clearer. I was driving yesterday and one of my favorite songs sounded so clear and beautiful! I have not been able to enjoy music for some time which was a great passion of mine. I've noticed more things like colors in the sunset are vibrant. And noticed things I've driven by probably dozens of times, but never stood out to me. I have been able to do something the other day that I just couldn't do anymore this past year or so (I was in the bookstore for well over an hour on Sunday, just browsing, whereas before, my attention previously would last about 10 minutes and that's all I could take.) I've also joined a gym this week and this is something I gave up a year and a half ago.

 

I know this is early, and that I have another road ahead of me which is tapering. I don't know what lies ahead and I will have to do this while working. I fully expect that it may not be easy and that I will have unpleasant side-effects along the way. But, I feel that the opportunity is open for me now to do this perhaps in a much smoother way. The acceptance piece that I posted is helping me to have less fear about it. After a few more weeks, I'll start thinking about next steps. I think for now, I have to give my body a rest and not make any changes for a little while.

 

Well, I know this is a long post but wanted to say hi. Again, thinking of you and wishing you well each day.

-Jan

[[Pa...]]

Hi Jan,

 

It's a pleasure to read what you write, it took me back to the time when the veil lifted for me as well, when colors were brighter and life was clearer.  It's good for me to read what the members write, because I never want to lose my gratitude to be well.  I hope your Valium taper is good to you, you've prepared yourself so well for it, that should count for something. 

 

 

[[Ja...]]

Thank you Pamster, that is what it feels like. Like a veil has started to lift. I appreciate your well wishes for tapering. Thinking positive - it has to work this time around!

 

-Jan

[[Ol...]]

Jan,

 

I couldn't agree more about the veil lifting.  That is EXACTLY how I started to feel.  So glad you got to the final part of the crossover.  I know about the sleep thing.  I have been there, falling asleep at 5 am.  It's the pits but it will get better.  Might try the tea next time I find myself awake that late.  Keep up the great work.  You are doing great!!!!

 

Oleander

[[Ja...]]

Thanks Oleander - I have a ton of teas, all decaf, which I find very comforting. This is Starbuck's 'Calm'...probably had a few cups last night.

 

Hoping the sleep gets back on track as I start up with work next week and have to be coherent early in the AM (I work with people in Europe and am on early morning calls! Ugh.)

 

Hang in there too!

 

- jan

[[ro...]]

Jan:

 

I think your sleep will start to improve.  Mind did after the crossover from Ativan.  I think our bodies are doing their little "hate to give up Ativan" dance while we're trying to move on and say we're done with that crap. 

 

I'll be checking in on you and hoping for your days and Nites to get better and better.

Rocko aka Cory 

[[Ja...]]

Thank you Cory - I think it will too, it seems after I made the changes throughout the cross-over, after four - to five days, I felt a noticeable difference with things improving. I really can't complain...I don't feel tired during the day at all.

 

So thankful to have Ativan be a part of my past even though it's not been a week yet! I am in sort of a state of disbelief about what it was putting me through and the state I was in on a day-to-day basis. I need to give it more time to put all these pieces together, but I truly feel physically better in this short time, and I just didn't expect it.

 

Hope you're feeling better too! Will keep checking in and will be there for you too.

- Jan

[[Ol...]]

Jan

 

I am feeling better now.  I started looking all over here and on the internet about alcohol and really thought maybe I drank more during my taper and that's why I hit a wall.  I calmed down a bit after that.  I need to stop reading stuff!!  I did get some chamomile tea and another kind called something like sleepy time.  No caffeine.  I am about to have a cup of it.  I am really a chinese tea person but I might get used to an herbal tea.  Anything to relax is good for me!  So glad to hear you are doing well.  I am hoping I feel even better tomorrow.  I don't have anything planned for this weekend.  I am just spending some quality time with my husband and my dog.  Poor dog has been a little starved for attention.  LOL.  She is sound asleep at the foot of my bed.  I usually kick her off but might let her stay for tonight.  I think a comedy movie would be fun to watch.  I find I don't watch the news on TV much anymore.  It's disturbing to me.  It's weird because I was a news junkie.  Now I watch the most idiotic shows I can find.  I just call them my brain candy shows.  You don't need to work your brain to watch them.

 

Have a great night and let me know how your weekend goes!

 

Oleander

[[Ja...]]

Hi Oleander, I'm so glad you are feeling better today. I know it helps to understand why things may be happening so good to do some research. I find though, if I do too much, I get upset. I quit drinking alcohol about a year and a half ago. I found I couldn't recover very well the next day even from the most minimal amount. My sister was here visiting recently and I thought I could manage a small amount. I literally had 1/2 a glass of a Belgian beer which I had not done in ages. The next day I was really out of sorts! So, I am okay with my new lifestyle as I'd rather feel better.

 

Today has been really strange for me as have been a few intermiddent times this week. Good days - or partially good, then not so good. I'm trying super hard to stay optimistic and bypass overthinking the symptoms part even though they are happening. I started out well today even after having insomnia til 4AM. I then got hit with a pretty strong wave of anxiety this afternoon when visiting family. It came out of nowhere and lasted quite awhile. It's not like a panic-attack. It's like a wave. This has happened before when I've made reductions to Ativan. I'm suspecting that this last phase of the crossover has been the hardest for me. I don't know for sure, but I'm guessing it must be withdrawal from Ativan from the last .25mg.

 

I am so lucky to have my mother encouraging me through all of this. She's knows what I'm going through...she's very much a best friend to me. I feel terrible I am putting her through this, especially at her age (she's 76). I don't have much of support system otherwise as this is hard to talk about with friends. She is an angel and helps to turn around my thinking especially on days like this when I was having this anxiety. She kept saying to me today that, 'You will get through this.'

 

I don't have much planned for the rest of the weekend. Trying to get my mind around going back to work on Monday. Maybe I should not think to much about it!? Have a good rest of the weekend, and snuggle up with your dog. I have two kitties - they are adorable. And yes - herbal tea is good! I drink it all throughout the day. So glad you got some. : )

 

-Jan

[[Ol...]]

Hi Jan,

 

Our symptoms seem a lot the same.  I had a "window" I guess late last night and then this morning, panicky.  That was probably because of no sleep.  My dinner went down okay last night and I stayed with bland stuff and felt good most of the day.  I was tired but not all shaky.  We just stayed in and watched movies.  My favorite kind of day, no responsibility.  That will change Thursday when I go back to school.  I am nervous about it like you are about work Monday but I am trying to keep it out of my mind.  I got a little carried away with a "normal" dinner and ended up getting kind of sick.  But I am still better than last week.  My goal for tonight is to sleep without anything, no Benedryl.  I took it last night at about 2am and then at about 4am I was still awake and I had such painful and restless legs, I thought I would lose it!  I just kept tossing and turning and kicking the blankets on and off. 

 

We always had a cat when I was a kid.  I was never a dog person but we adopted Lady from a shelter when she was a puppy.  She is a border collie mix, so sweet.  Really she gets away with anything!!  LOL.  I'm glad you have your mom to talk to about this.  Today is my mom's birthday.  She had 3 strokes and doesn't understand what is going on.  That was 3 years ago when she was 59.  It was really unfair but she is able to live alone for now.  She has a very sick husband so it really depends on what happens to him in the near future.  I might have to make some difficult decisions for my mom's future.  I try not to think about it right now.  She has no other family besides me.  My dad retired and moved far away.  He knows what's going on but really doesn't want to talk about it much.  So I really depend on my husband.  I don't really deserve such a great guy.  I could never find a guy that could put up with me during all this like he has.  He's really smart and funny.  He's so sweet and understanding. 

 

I am going to have some tea before bed, hopefully that will make me relax a bit.  Also, a nice hot shower.  I always find that a hot shower and jammies can make you feel so comfortable.

 

Take care and let's hope tomorrow is a great day.  I am feeling good at this moment so that's good enough for me right now.

 

Oleander

[[Ja...]]

Hi Oleander,

 

Thank you so much for your kind note, I hope you were able to sleep some. I couldn't again, it's very strange, I'm just wide awake for hours and don't feel tired. Last night I was chilled to no end. I've been through this before. I'll just wait it out and hopefully it will improve.

 

I cried when I read your note. My father had three strokes, 3 years ago this December too. I can't believe you are going through the same thing. I relocated from my life across the country to come home and help my dad through rehabilitation. My mom and I are the only two who've been there all along. I understand completely about your mother and having to make decisions and how hard it is without other family there. My dad was a miracle-survivor. He had been in a coma for days and once he started to come through that period, it was a long road through recovery. I am so glad you have your husband to help you as you truly need support for something like this. There are so many unknowns with a stroke and it's like re-learning everthing in life again. My dad inspires me! While he lost so much, he's never complained, and has a great sense of humor. My mom has been strong throughout this, but she's losing her vision now. I think that is why yesterday was hard. My dad doesn't know what I'm going through and he was really concerned about me as I didn't feel well. It broke my heart. I wish that I didn't have this problem on top of everything so that I could be 100% and strong for them. Throughout these three years, I find helping them gives me a lot of comfort. We really appreciate so much and having each other.

 

I hope you have a wonderful day and that your mom has a happy birthday! She is lucky to have you close-by to help her. Your border-collie sounds sweet. I have spoiled my two kitties and they get away with a ton. They are brother and sister, very entertaining.

 

Have a good day today and be well. We'll get through this, taking each day as it comes. Sending you my best and a hug!

Jan

 

 

 

[[su...]]

Hi jan the same thing happened to my father he has had 2 strokes and my life was turned upside down but he is ok now and on the meds, I feel so sorry for him when I see him have to count out all the pills and cut them in half ect... but I have to do the same thing with my ativan, that pill has ruined my life....I was on 2mg of Valium for many years and functioned perfectly, I even travelled the world with my guitar...that all changed when I got on ativan, I can't even go to the farmers market sometimes... it's a roller coaster ride. I tired switching to 5mg of Valium and was a zombie then my arms started burning then the depression hit me over the head so I dumped the Valium after only 3 weeks and took the ativan again I guess that was my second big mistake...I want to try crossing over again to a lower dose if possible and in the spring and summer. Good luck on  your taper.

 

I just read some of your old posts I can't believe some I the parallels ! I feel perfect in the morning then I dose at noon them 5 hours later I start feeling ill then a couple hours later without dosing I feel perfect again, I dose at 8pm and go 16 hours without a dose and feel great, it's just around 5pm I feel sick...but it was like that always with me even on Valium.

 

I really need to try and switch again but I have not seen in any archives where someone failed and tried again and succeeded I hope to be the first, I should have stuck it out but I didn't know what was happening to my mind I can't explain it I never felt that dead before.

 

sundaze

[[Ja...]]

Hi Sundaze, thanks so much for your note. My life has totally changed since my father became ill, but I truly value this time with him. I'm glad your father is doing better. It sure teaches you a lot, it's humbling. My dad was a genius engineer, working/consulting and many patents under his name. Everything changed due to the stroke damage. However, we see some incredible things sometimes and just recently, he has really surprised us with putting together a small model train set from Christmas. It took a great deal of time, but he figured it out. We got the train running tonight and it's these simple things that help me see some good out of it all.

 

I can relate to the damage from Ativan. While I am experiencing symptoms from the cross-over, I can do more in this short-time than I was doing on Ativan. I was getting to the point of barely functioning on the roller-coaster of Ativan. As you said about going to the Farmer's market, in the past year and a half...simple, manageable day-to-day life things have come to a halt or bare minimum. My sense of enjoyment for things I was interested in was gone...and it's not like a depression. It was different. As you said, shopping at the super-market (or farmers market for you) was one of them. If it's any hope about the change from Ativan to Valium...I just spent an hour there today buying things to help eat better! This was a major accomplishment for me...for quite some time, I've been eating about once a day and nothing good!

 

The fluctuations that you mention throughout the day, and what I posted about before has not changed since the cross-over. I thought they would diminish with the change, but so far, it is the same. I don't know what causes it. It's totally strange to me but if I'm busy, I don't notice it as much. If you find out anything about this, let me know!

 

I hope you find a way to help manage off of the Ativan when the time is right for you. Keep hoping for the best insight to help you figure it out. I didn't expect things to be perfect on a different medication. And I know I'm going through a lot because I just took one medication away and brought in another. But, I needed a way forward and by a change in circumstances, I was transferred to a really caring doctor this fall. I thought about it a lot and figured this may be a window of an opportunity given to me because she was open to hearing about my concerns from Ativan, and then we discussed the Ashton method. It's still soon for me to post on insights from progress or what I've learned from it. But, if there is anything I can do to help you, let me know. And, thank you for the well-wishes on the tapering...that is another road ahead. Best,

Jan

[[le...]]

Hi Jan,

 

I crossed over from .75 Ativan to 7.50 in September and then started my Valium taper at the end of October. I am so glad that the crossover has worked out for me. I know that a benzo is a benzo but I find that the Valium is much easier for me to tolerate. I am currently at 5.50 mg.

 

I'm glad that you were able to find caring doc that is willing to work with you and is open the the Ashton Method. It sounds like this Valium crossover is working out well for you.

 

I wish you the best as you begin your taper.

 

Leslie

 

 

[[Ol...]]

Jan,

 

Hi!  How are you doing?  Wow, parents health problems are hard to deal with even without dealing with them while tapering from these benzos.  I had such a hard weekend with my mom.  It is heartbreaking.  She cries all day and all night.  I can't understand her on the phone.  Her husband is dying in the hospital and she couldn't get a hold of him in intensive care.  I was making calls all day yesterday for her and she just couldn't understand what was going on.  She couldn't dial a phone or write down a phone number.  She was a published teacher before this happened to her at 59.  That is so young.  It's just unfair to her.  It would be nice if this could bring us closer but when she is not crying to the point where you can't understand her at all, she is screaming and yelling at me to give her a phone number for the 10th time.  It is hard to take the abuse and help her at the same time.  The guilt is overwhelming.

 

I do find that the better I get in this tapering process, the better I am at dealing with her.  I finally got to a point where I can sleep about 6 hours and only wake up a few times during the night.  I feel so much better right now.  It is like night and day compared to last week.  I can hold down food and don't have that anxiety going on.  That makes me more comfortable to start school this week.

 

I remember feeling like this before and I would feel good and taper as much as I could.  THAT was what did me in!  I want to jump down right now but my husband was smart enough to talk me into staying on the 8mg longer.  I would like to cut 1mg at a time till I hit 5mg.  I remember 4mg being my huge problem and I want to cut much smaller when I reach that point.

 

I was looking into liquid valium and it looks like something I might not want to do when I get to that point.  I might change my mind depending on how the dry tapering works but I would like to just cut the pills.

 

I hope you are feeling better now with the crossover.  It is nice to start to get yourself back.  Take care and let me know how you are doing.

 

Oleander

[[Ja...]]

Hi Leslie, thank you for the note, we had the same cross-over dosages. Glad to hear that in a short time you've already managed it down to 5.5mg. That must be a great feeling as I know that for me at least, I was stuck on the .75mg of Ativan. Couldn't go any further down, but now hoping on the Valium it will be possible in time.

 

The cross-over went better than I expected, although last week was the toughest for me. The past few days have been better. I'm having a few unusual symptoms which I may post here about tonight. Not sure if I should be concerned or just wait it out. In all, I feel so much better than I did several weeks ago. The difference is amazing.

 

I wish you well with your taper. Keep me posted on how it goes!

Best wishes,

Jan