Discussions on Philosophy Group

[Guest [Kp...]]

Despite all this, am I sufficiently accountable for my actions? I hope so.

 

You are jumping guns. Are you responsible for what you dream? Why not?

 

People in trance, like a mountaineer climbing a steep cliff with bare hands, or an artist in serendipitous contemplation, or an individual meditating, similarly form no memories after hours of the activity. Are they responsible? If they are, what are they responsible for? Why do mathematicians like Ramanujan say that they are not responsible for their mathematical insights but God is?

 

Why is mathematics still considered discovered and not invented? Why is man still afraid to own up?

[[Es...]]

Well, it’s nice to think I have some control over my life. I can choose the activities I engage in for example. Not that bad. I can either take some action without thinking much. Or think about taking action for hours. And not do anything at all. Cause I was contemplating whether it made sense or not...

[Guest [Kp...]]

Well, it’s nice to think I have some control over my life. I can choose the activities I engage in for example. Not that bad. I can either take some action without thinking much. Or think about taking action for hours. And not do anything at all. Cause I was contemplating whether it made sense or not...

 

I do not think anybody in this thread suggested that you do not have free will.

 

If Kant introduced the terms a priori and a posteriori, does it mean that his delineation has to be right? (Personally, I do not think he has to be right. I am not saying he is wrong.)

[[Aj...]]

I don't think we have Free Will.

 

I think that choice is an illusion. All choices are determined by everything that has happened to us prior to the point at which we make a choice - all of the billiosn of tiny moments that make up a life to that point.

 

In a sense every choice is subject to a barage of over-determination.

 

We have to phenomenologically believe that we act freely though.

[[az...]]

But modtly it is an attack on other philodphers.

 

Okay, I modified my post. It wasn’t certainly any kind of attack. I like the way Nietzsche presented his ideas. Could say the same about many other philosophers. Some philosophers wrote better than others from a literary point of view. Still, the content is more important than the form. If the chief concern here is the form in which I write. I’m not sure I want to contribute. As I mentioned earlier, I’m not a native speaker of English.

 

Hiya,

 

I didn't think it was an attack. We are just having a discussion aren't we?

 

I was not saying anything about what you said. I was simply saying that underneath Nietzsche's poetry is just the same kind of critique that people who write in a more conservative way might make.

 

I feel that you and your contributions have helped me greatly, Adjusta.

 

I’m not sure if this got edited or if you removed another comment on this, but the first version(s) I saw were on the same line of thinking and reading your posts gave me a feeling of great relief because I felt you were expressing sentiments I am almost never understood for also.

 

Whether it’s awkward to be complimented for you, I can’t say. You have helped my emotional body to repair somewhat as of yesterday (and with some other replies and posts,) nonetheless... quite a great deal.

 

Nice to have a little patchwork on what parts of my own “self-expression,” I suppose whether I could truly express myself would depend supon whether I have free will, are which I feel get crucified and disrespected constantly.

[[Aj...]]

Hi,

 

I don't think I've really made much of a contribution - are you meaning to address your remark to Estee?

[[az...]]

Yes, I suspected you may feel as such...

About which posts— also yes, it is/they were the one(s) regarding helping clarify certain points about the value of a more streamlined approach in writing.

 

But there have been others, other posts. Your last entry in the vent thread is one.

[[az...]]

I wrote a poem about my one philosophy class, but I don't know where it is.  I really disliked that course.  I could not wrap my head around any of those philosophers' ideas:  ghost inside the machine, Plato stuff, etc.  So many differing ideas about our nature.  Harmonee, don't understand that question about the center line.  The poem just speaks about how I would rather not use my mind while on this earth, and that the DESIRE to relax and feel good always wins the war.

 

 

You might like Epicurus then....

 

🏝Epicurus: I am interested.

[[az...]]

Yes, I suspected you may feel as such...

About which posts— also yes, it is/they were the one(s) regarding helping clarify certain points about the value of a more streamlined approach in writing.

 

But there have been others, other posts. Your last entry in the vent thread is one.

 

I don’t want everyone to be like me guys, but it’s nice to have a little support in some areas. 🙄

 

...sometimes, just some.

[[Aj...]]

In that case I'm glad to have been of help...

[[az...]]

In that case I'm glad to have been of help...

 

Alright, see you around.

[[az...]]

Hi,

 

I don't think I've really made much of a contribution - are you meaning to address your remark to Estee?

 

Final comment I hope for a while:

 

Exhausted

and grateful for Estee

[Guest [Kp...]]

Okay, so how much free will we have depends first of all on our brain chemistry. I agree. However, in what way can we assess our brain chemistry? I surely have this and that chemical imbalance in my brain, resulting from my dx and yrs of polydrugging. I certainly have inherited BZD dependence in my genes. I don’t think I have a brain tumor yet. 

 

Yes. In the BB universe, benzos give withdrawal. : ) Did you watch the video I posted yesterday? here The guy went from 500 mg valium to 0 in one day and he did not even notice it.

 

Despite all this, am I sufficiently accountable for my actions? I hope so. What happens if I blame the chemical imbalance in my brain for everything I screw up? I develop a habit of blaming everything on my chemical imbalance in the brain. I really don’t want to develop this habit.

 

That is called being a fatalist. None of our modern paradoxes are original, as I am sure you know. The Allegory of the Cave is called the MATRIX simulation argument today. : ) Read this syllogistic reasoning -- it is a trap but sounds credible on first read :

 

Nick Bostrom

 

Ancestor simulation

In 2003, philosopher Nick Bostrom proposed a trilemma that he called "the simulation argument". Despite the name, Bostrom's "simulation argument" does not directly argue that we live in a simulation; instead, Bostrom's trilemma argues that one of three unlikely-seeming propositions is almost certainly true:

 

"The fraction of human-level civilizations that reach a posthuman stage (that is, one capable of running high-fidelity ancestor simulations) is very close to zero", or

"The fraction of posthuman civilizations that are interested in running ancestor-simulations is very close to zero", or

"The fraction of all people with our kind of experiences that are living in a simulation is very close to one"

The trilemma points out that a technologically mature "posthuman" civilization would have enormous computing power; if even a tiny percentage of them were to run "ancestor simulations" (that is, "high-fidelity" simulations of ancestral life that would be indistinguishable from reality to the simulated ancestor), the total number of simulated ancestors, or "Sims", in the universe (or multiverse, if it exists) would greatly exceed the total number of actual ancestors.

 

Bostrom goes on to use a type of anthropic reasoning to claim that, if the third proposition is the one of those three that is true, and almost all people with our kind of experiences live in simulations, then we are almost certainly living in a simulation.

 

 

I don’t think the chemical imbalance in my brain is so important that it accounts for everything that I screw up in life. I don’t really know if I’m right or wrong. It’s rather a belief. A conviction.

No, I do not think we do not have free will. I do not have any reasoning for it. Call it a priori knowledge. I just know I have free will.

[[Es...]]

I have no idea if we actually have free will. So many factors could be taken into account. We might as well have an illusion of having free will. Even to a certain extent. Most people believe what they are comfortable with. It is as it should be.

 

Thought it would be all easier to understand by watching vids than by reading.

 

The following two

compare concepts of the libertarian free will, hard determinism and compatibilism.

 

Here’s a very good

on Immanuel Kant’s philosophy, concepts of categorical imperative and free will. Second vid after this one.

 

And to sum it all up:

. Some entertainment is always welcome. Nevermind the obscure terms. Just sing along.

 

Well, everyone can decide for themselves if they have free will. This is what free will is about. Enough philosophy for today. I feel tired.

[[Aj...]]

Aristotle says thst good luck is an essential element of the 'Good Life'

 

It is possible to 500mg Valium guy is just damn lucky.

[Guest [Kp...]]

Aristotle says thst good luck is an essential element of the 'Good Life'

 

This is nice.

 

Oh, I'm yet to watch "The Good Place!" I'm going out of town tomorrow... maybe I'll watch in the hotel.

 

It is possible to 500mg Valium guy is just damn lucky.

 

Yes.

 

But, curiously, I put my sister in rehab in 2007. She was taking 5/6/7 mg xanax and passing out on the floor. She was 35. I did not know about withdrawals then. She was detoxed in a week and she did not care. She spent 3 months in the rehab and I'd visit her every day then, I recall. She relapsed. But xanax is not her drug of choice; so she takes xanax for several months and stops and repeat. Weird. She does not believe I get withdrawals. She thinks I am a wussy. : )

[Guest [Kp...]]

I once read a blog post by a BB member, River Wolf. It was fiction but I thought it was very beautiful fiction. Let me reproduce it:

 

... his post is below. I removed the quotes to make for easier reading.

And along with others not understanding our experience, I think the specific kind of deep, deep despair and  loneliness that comes from benzo withdrawal is due to a particular function of the way benzos interrupt the body's natural balance of chemical and electrical processes.

 

During withdrawal and benzo recovery, we no longer feel like ourselves, because we literally are NOT ourselves - we are a chemically modified version of ourselves - living in a temporarily, semi-human body that has been chemically altered.

 

We temporarily no longer have nerve cells that are specifically human -  because of the benzos effect , our nerve cells have an architecture and function that does not allow normal emotions and thought processes to flow like they did in our pre benzo condition. What we are feeling – including the despair and loneliness, is a kind of loneliness that is specific only to benzo wd. There is no loneliness like it. This is why it feels different than any other loneliness that we have experienced in the past.

 

Also, I think the despair is especially deep and dark because of being cut off from the entirety of our being – including our soul and our connection to the Universe that we normally take for granted.

 

But when this connection is interrupted by benzo use and then the process of wd, it is obvious that something profound is wrong with our emotional body and how we relate to ourselves. This is typically called depersonalization.

 

So if you are having a difficult time with the especially nasty loneliness and despair, I hope you can get some relief from my attempt at explaining what I think is going on. Now that my loneliness is gone and I have reconnected with my soul feelings, I can see what my process of emotional healing looks like in hindsight.

 

Here's the good news – you are going to get better also. You don't have to believe it. You just have to  survive until your body regenerates nerve receptors and pathways again in a drug free environment. Thanks to neuroplasticity, this will happen.

 

You Will feel love and joy and happiness again. I was certain I was done for good -  just like you may be feeling  -  and now I'm back and better than ever. This will happen to you too.

 

 

 

River 

[[Be...]]

When I started studying religions when I was young, many of the early Christians believed in determinism.  I guess Calvin didn't believe in free will, not sure.

[[Es...]]

I don't think we have Free Will.

 

I think that choice is an illusion. All choices are determined by everything that has happened to us prior to the point at which we make a choice - all of the billiosn of tiny moments that make up a life to that point.

 

In a sense every choice is subject to a barage of over-determination.

 

We have to phenomenologically believe that we act freely though.

 

This makes a lot of sense. I suspect we do not have free will. Here is the concept of free will in different religions.

[[Be...]]

I don't believe we have free will either.  Why do some people have charmed lives and live to a happy and ripe old age and some don't?  Why are some people born into wealth with good and caring parents and some have parents who abuse them in many ways?  Why do some people end up disabled and in severe pain at an early age and some people are running marathons in their 80's?  I can't control the weather and external forces either and all the damage it does to my home like it did last night and today.  Why are some people swept away and die in a mudslide and their homes are ruined like I watched on Dateline the other night and others get away unscathed with their homes still standing and untouched?  I also believe in astrology and my chart is very bad.  Lots of strong bad oppositions which are said to cause major upheaval for me and it's so true.  It also said I'd have a nervous breakdown and that sure did happen.  I believe our lives are pre-ordained and everything that happens to us is also predestined. 

[[Aj...]]

Ahh - I don’t believe in pre-determination or fatalism either which is what that sounds like.

 

All I mean is that choices have to be asked on something and, in that sense, are not free.

[Guest [Kp...]]

Determinism and free will, both are paradoxes in our universe; ones we cannot experimentally resolve till we gain knowledge of the physical end of the universe. The reason it is important to know the boundary of the universe to answer these paradoxes is because a lot of things we intuitively feel to be true about experience can only be true if the universe is infinite. (If the universe is finite, it is unlikely that we have free will - Google superdeterminism in physics for an example of this.) We have not seen infinity in experience, even though we have an innate idea about it. We have seen only large numbers, large spaces and large time. All our queries to nature about the nature of time have come back with the putative impression that she does not create time and space but we do.

 

It is also not at all obvious that the universe is infinite. For example, if we discovered that we are in a simulation, then the universe is not infinite. In any case, it is not possible to predict the nature of the boundary of the universe with our current knowledge of science (tomorrow will surely be different).

---

 

Guys (and sisters),

 

Free will, I think, falls in metaphysics. I could wax eloquent about metaphysics. But while you all discuss free will, the flavor of this group for these days, I am just wondering which subject i should broach next. These are the few things I learnt a bit about in the last few months:

 

Physics and the universe,

Mathematics and the universe,

Mathematical statistics and the universe,

Neuroscience and the universe,

Evolution and the universe,

Art and the universe (what is Art if not a surrogate for sex?)

 

Which one appeals to you? This is in order to help me plan, lol (which is never a good idea in life when you come to think of it).

 

[[Be...]]

Quantum physics theories says everything is infinite, I believe.

[Guest [Kp...]]

Quantum physics theories says everything is infinite, I believe.

 

I will have to check this. But AFAIK, space and time break down at below the level of QM, or below the plank length (they no longer exist). So I'm not quite sure how they say that things go on and on below that level.

 

Anyway I'll check and return. This issue is a subject in itself and quite intriguing!

[[Be...]]

QM, says time/space is an illusion and everything is consciousness according to Amit Goswami, so infinity and finite terms don't apply, I suppose.  Check out Alain Aspect's experiments.  This is sort of where I started in learning QM.  I'm not a math whiz or physicist, but read the experiments and understood them at a basic level.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alain_Aspect