DOSE ANYOE KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE LAW OF CONSENT REGARDING BENZOS IN UK

[[no...]]

I am so sorry, Nova, I really am.

 

Fiona 

Hi Fiona  at least for now I don't know what's going to happen in future  yet I got my 8mg still although its a nuisance as well as ridiculous I have to ring in for the next week on the same day I get my Diazepam for the following week then its going to get awkward when it comes to it being on a Saturday or Sunday  with calendar changes.

 

But like I said if they make thing awkward for me or do try to mess with my doses then the letters going in  as I can't stop what hasn't happened yet, BAT agree with me as well hold it for now, then if the case arises then send it. By the way I've also been informed  a case addressing  non-compliance with Consent Bill was won by the patient very recently.  An award of £4. Million was made to the patient, I can't find the report but have asked the person can they tell me where to find it,  they work with Benzo patients going through withdrawal and the NHS.

 

 

 

 

Love Nova xxx  :smitten:  

[[lo...]]

I wish these things wers made public, Nova.

 

That cold very well explain why i have been treated so badly.

 

Fiona 

[[no...]]

Hers that case

I am so sorry, Nova, I really am.

 

Fiona 

Hi Fiona  at least for now I don't know what's going to happen in future  yet I got my 8mg still although its a nuisance as well as ridiculous I have to ring in for the next week on the same day I get my Diazepam for the following week then its going to get awkward when it comes to it being on a Saturday or Sunday  with calendar changes.

 

But like I said if they make thing awkward for me or do try to mess with my doses then the letters going in  as I can't stop what hasn't happened yet, BAT agree with me as well hold it for now, then if the case arises then send it. By the way I've also been informed  a case addressing  non-compliance with Consent Bill was won by the patient very recently.  An award of £4. Million was made to the patient, I can't find the report but have asked the person can they tell me where to find it,  they work with Benzo patients going through withdrawal and the NHS.

 

 

 

Love Nova xxx  :smitten:  

Got it !!! They just sent it to me    http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/QB/2018/164.html

[[Mi...]]

Hi nova, I was hoping to hear better news. Ive been looking in to see. I am so sorry too. I totally agree this should all be made public. I reckon dragging us all off is a box ticking excercise. When it all comes put the prescriptions wont be being written and GPs will consider their hands clean.

 

Could you start a taper now and keep shtum? If you can drag it out long enough you might make it a bit easier on yourself.

 

I start cutting tomorrow

[[bu...]]

I have somewhat followed this discussion, and I have no vested interest in the issue, but...here's an observation:

 

I have seen this language (and similar statements) posted many times here, "...to impose care or treatment on people without respecting their wishes and right to self-determination is not only unethical, but illegal ", but I haven't seen any valid reference that promises that a physician is required to continue a therapy

 

JMHO

[[no...]]

I have somewhat followed this discussion, and I have no vested interest in the issue, but...here's an observation:

 

I have seen this language (and similar statements) posted many times here, "...to impose care or treatment on people without respecting their wishes and right to self-determination is not only unethical, but illegal ", but I haven't seen any valid reference that promises that a physician is required to continue a therapy

 

JMHO

 

Hi Builder  you missed an important word  out  just for the sake of simplifying things.

 

Definition of treatment

 

1 a : the act or manner or an instance of treating someone or something : handling, usage

: the techniques or actions customarily applied in a specified situation

2 a : a substance or technique used in treating

b : an experimental condition

 

Benzodiazepines are ''controlled substances'

 

 

Also to force you into withdrawal is injurious against you, and can leave you disabled for life too,  and more. Some people end up with no option even against their will but to stay on this drug because of the disabling effects of withdrawal.

 

Love Nova xxx  :smitten:

 

[[no...]]

Also read this sentence in its entirety "...

 

to impose care or treatment on people without respecting their wishes and right to self-determination ( Meaing ''Determination of one's own fate or course of action without compulsion; free will.'') is not only unethical, but illegal

 

Thats from  Website for Doctors only, I know because I rang them up only to be told that.  http://www.medicalprotection.org/uk/resources/factsheets/wales/wales-factsheets/uk-wal-consent-the-basics

 

 

 

 

 

Introduction

 

Consent to treatment is the principle that a person must give permission before they receive any type of medical treatment, test or examination. This must be done on the basis of an explanation by a clinician.

Consent from a patient is needed regardless of the procedure – whether it's a physical examination, organ donation or something else. The principle of consent is an important part of medical ethics and the international human rights law.

 

'If an adult has the capacity to make a voluntary and informed decision to consent to or refuse a particular treatment, their decision must be respected. This is still the case even if refusing treatment would result in their death, or the death of their unborn child.

https://www.nhsdirect.wales.nhs.uk/encyclopaedia/c/article/consenttotreatment/

Defining consent

 

For consent to be valid, it must be voluntary and informed, and the person consenting must have the capacity to make the decision.

 

These terms are explained below:

 

  voluntary –

The decision to either consent or not to consent to treatment must be made by the person themselves, and must not be influenced by pressure from** medical staff**, friends or family

 

 

informed – the person must be given all of the information in terms of what the treatment involves, including the benefits and risks, whether there are reasonable alternative treatments, and what will happen if treatment doesn't go ahead

 

capacity – the person must be capable of giving consent, which means they understand the information given to them and they can use it to make an informed decision

 

If an adult has the capacity to make a voluntary and informed decision to consent to or refuse a particular treatment, their decision must be respected.

 

 

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/consent-to-treatment/

 

 

….patients are now widely regarded as persons holding rights, rather than as the passive recipients of the care of the medical profession.

 

Supreme Court reverses informed consent ruling https://ukhumanrightsblog.com/2015/03/13/supreme-court-reverses-informed-consent-ruling-sidaway-is-dead/

 

 

 

Love Nova xxx  :smitten:

 

[[lo...]]

The Welsh Assembly is seeking the views of those in Wales who have been adversely affected by benzodiazepines. 

 

The information is here on my website.  I hope you can write to them.  You have so much you could tell them.

 

https://nevertrustadoctor.wordpress.com/2018/02/15/welsh-assembly-seeks-individual-stories-for-prescribed-drug-dependence/

 

Thanks

 

Fiona 

[[bu...]]

Also read this sentence in its entirety "...

 

to impose care or treatment on people without respecting their wishes and right to self-determination ( Meaing ''Determination of one's own fate or course of action without compulsion; free will.'') is not only unethical, but illegal

 

Thats from  Website for Doctors only, I know because I rang them up only to be told that.  http://www.medicalprotection.org/uk/resources/factsheets/wales/wales-factsheets/uk-wal-consent-the-basics

 

 

 

 

 

Introduction

 

Consent to treatment is the principle that a person must give permission before they receive any type of medical treatment, test or examination. This must be done on the basis of an explanation by a clinician.

Consent from a patient is needed regardless of the procedure – whether it's a physical examination, organ donation or something else. The principle of consent is an important part of medical ethics and the international human rights law.

 

'If an adult has the capacity to make a voluntary and informed decision to consent to or refuse a particular treatment, their decision must be respected. This is still the case even if refusing treatment would result in their death, or the death of their unborn child.

https://www.nhsdirect.wales.nhs.uk/encyclopaedia/c/article/consenttotreatment/

Defining consent

 

For consent to be valid, it must be voluntary and informed, and the person consenting must have the capacity to make the decision.

 

These terms are explained below:

 

  voluntary –

The decision to either consent or not to consent to treatment must be made by the person themselves, and must not be influenced by pressure from** medical staff**, friends or family

 

 

informed – the person must be given all of the information in terms of what the treatment involves, including the benefits and risks, whether there are reasonable alternative treatments, and what will happen if treatment doesn't go ahead

 

capacity – the person must be capable of giving consent, which means they understand the information given to them and they can use it to make an informed decision

 

If an adult has the capacity to make a voluntary and informed decision to consent to or refuse a particular treatment, their decision must be respected.

 

 

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/consent-to-treatment/

 

 

….patients are now widely regarded as persons holding rights, rather than as the passive recipients of the care of the medical profession.

 

Supreme Court reverses informed consent ruling https://ukhumanrightsblog.com/2015/03/13/supreme-court-reverses-informed-consent-ruling-sidaway-is-dead/

 

 

 

Love Nova xxx  :smitten:

 

Sorry, but I see nothing in any of the language you have posted that evenly remotely suggests that a doc is required to continue writing scrips for any med if he does not feel it appropriate.

 

All of the language is prefaced by "... to impose care or treatment...".  Not giving you a scrip does NOT equate to imposing care or treatment

[[lo...]]

I disagree, if a doctor forces a patient to taper too fast against that patient's will, putting that patient at serious risk of harm, I believe it would be illegal now.  After all the risks are enormous, as I can testify.  If a drug is prescribed a patient can choose not to take it but if a doctor refuses to prescribe a drug of dependence in sufficient quantities for safe tapering, then that is imposing their will on the patient.  The patient then has no choice whatsoever.

 

Fiona 

[[li...]]

Also read this sentence in its entirety "...

 

to impose care or treatment on people without respecting their wishes and right to self-determination ( Meaing ''Determination of one's own fate or course of action without compulsion; free will.'') is not only unethical, but illegal

 

Thats from  Website for Doctors only, I know because I rang them up only to be told that.  http://www.medicalprotection.org/uk/resources/factsheets/wales/wales-factsheets/uk-wal-consent-the-basics

 

 

 

 

 

Introduction

 

Consent to treatment is the principle that a person must give permission before they receive any type of medical treatment, test or examination. This must be done on the basis of an explanation by a clinician.

Consent from a patient is needed regardless of the procedure – whether it's a physical examination, organ donation or something else. The principle of consent is an important part of medical ethics and the international human rights law.

 

'If an adult has the capacity to make a voluntary and informed decision to consent to or refuse a particular treatment, their decision must be respected. This is still the case even if refusing treatment would result in their death, or the death of their unborn child.

https://www.nhsdirect.wales.nhs.uk/encyclopaedia/c/article/consenttotreatment/

Defining consent

 

For consent to be valid, it must be voluntary and informed, and the person consenting must have the capacity to make the decision.

 

These terms are explained below:

 

  voluntary –

The decision to either consent or not to consent to treatment must be made by the person themselves, and must not be influenced by pressure from** medical staff**, friends or family

 

 

informed – the person must be given all of the information in terms of what the treatment involves, including the benefits and risks, whether there are reasonable alternative treatments, and what will happen if treatment doesn't go ahead

 

capacity – the person must be capable of giving consent, which means they understand the information given to them and they can use it to make an informed decision

 

If an adult has the capacity to make a voluntary and informed decision to consent to or refuse a particular treatment, their decision must be respected.

 

 

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/consent-to-treatment/

 

 

….patients are now widely regarded as persons holding rights, rather than as the passive recipients of the care of the medical profession.

 

Supreme Court reverses informed consent ruling https://ukhumanrightsblog.com/2015/03/13/supreme-court-reverses-informed-consent-ruling-sidaway-is-dead/

 

 

 

Love Nova xxx  :smitten:

 

Sorry, but I see nothing in any of the language you have posted that evenly remotely suggests that a doc is required to continue writing scrips for any med if he does not feel it appropriate.

 

All of the language is prefaced by "... to impose care or treatment...".  Not giving you a scrip does NOT equate to imposing care or treatment

 

I think ... prescribing a benzo that a patient is dependent on is treatment. Discontinuing a benzo is also treatment. Informed consent is therefore required.

UK members, am I wrong ?

 

Builder, of course it wouldn't go as far as to state ' that a doc is required to continue writing scrips for any med if he does not feel it appropriate.' under all conceivable circumstances. Someone having been on benzos for two weeks wouldn't be able to claim a lifetime prescription. ?

 

It's not the USA.

 

In The Netherlands, there is absolutely no chance in getting that kind of money. GPs are almost above the law, no fear of litigation.

[[lo...]]

I think you are right.  It is still very hard here in the UK to pursue litigation but obviously it is possible. 

[[no...]]

Hi nova, I was hoping to hear better news. Ive been looking in to see. I am so sorry too. I totally agree this should all be made public. I reckon dragging us all off is a box ticking excercise. When it all comes put the prescriptions wont be being written and GPs will consider their hands clean.

 

Could you start a taper now and keep shtum? If you can drag it out long enough you might make it a bit easier on yourself.

 

I start cutting tomorrow

Hi sweetie  Your Dr CAN NOT force you off against your free will to what amounts to cold turkey  Its DEFINATLEY illegal I have it from a VERY HUGELY reliable source   Its not up for disagreement or debate ITS ILLEGAL!!!  IN ALL OF UK Scotland, Ireland, England, and Wales, its a ''NATIONAL'' law not a REGIONAL law.  Your Dr is committing a criminal act, Here's what you need to do .

 

If they try to stop your drugs write out and get a receipt for it take it in person if you can or get someone to go directly to your Dr's and get a receipt, even if its one you written out yourself stating you handed aletter in for the Practice manager then date it and get a signature  so they can't say they never got it.

 

And write in the letter I REFUSE TO GIVE MY CONSENT UNDER 2017 CONSENT LAW ''  Write it to the Doctors Surgery Management, as that's where you send any complaints regarding the Doctor NOT directly to the Doctor their self.

 

 

They can NOT kick you out of the surgery if it comes to going further than a phone call either as that's also ILLEGAL. I really hope this helps others out their living in terror of being dragged off any drugs by any medical persons like I was 

 

 

Love Nova xxx  :smitten:

 

[[Mi...]]

Hey nova and all,

 

Well this is not off to a great start.

Young GP was supposed to send a script Monday to my pharmacy. No script! I officially ran out on 11/02. Eventually yesterday I managed to find out the GP who talked me into tapering at .5mg every other day had not pressed send on the script. So another GP had to sign it off. Ffs! I could actually walk down the road and find someone to sell me some. Who are they trying to kid with all this nonesense?

 

I am awaiting results of an MRI, up at 6am and working full time and I cant walk without a stick. I have no time for this nonesense

 

Got to the pharmacy and there in all their glory 22×2mg tablets. So i will have to get them every 2 weeks by the looks of things. Its ridiculous.

 

I am so fed up and am worried that I will taper .5mg every other day and he will get me off quick and refuse to let me go back up if i hit a wall.

[[po...]]

Una Corbett in the UK helps ppl with this issue with their GP.... try ringing her(if u are in the uk)

 

on 01179663629 and please dont tell her that you go her number online, say that you were given it by somebody who had told you about her that you met.... she asked me not to post it here...

[[lo...]]

It is okay, that number is publicly available anyway so you are not revealing anything.

 

http://bataid.org

[[po...]]

that's good, it's years since i last spoke to her, thanks for letting me know!

[[Aj...]]

I expect you are well beyond this and I am not able to read this whole thread atm

 

Has your GP read the NICE guideline: https://cks.nice.org.uk/benzodiazepine-and-z-drug-withdrawal#!scenario

[[no...]]

I expect you are well beyond this and I am not able to read this whole thread atm

 

Has your GP read the NICE guideline: https://cks.nice.org.uk/benzodiazepine-and-z-drug-withdrawal#!scenario

 

Hi Ajusta Below is my post form last month regarding your question 

 

 

  Reply #10 on: 07 February 2018, 09:03:56 »

 

    Quote

 

My Doctor is FULL OF SHIT!!!   He told me that he is ''Following NICE GUIDELINES by pulling off at 2mg a time over no less than 3 months  after I've been on  this Drug 20 years or longer???  He's also going by an 8mg dose I'm prescribed after spending year's fighting to lower the dose myself with no medical help although I begged for it? And I had to up-dose to 10mg and have been holding there 6 months trying to stabilise as I'm really fkd up

 

 

FROM THE NICE GUIDELINES

 

 

Benzodiazepine and z-drug withdrawal

Last revised in April 2015

 

Negotiate a gradual drug withdrawal schedule (dose tapering) that is flexible. Be guided by the person in making adjustments so that they remain comfortable with the withdrawal.,

 

And its printed on BLOCK PRINT in the guidelines under '' Managing someone who wants to stop

How do I manage someone who wants to stop benzodiazepines or z-drugs?

 

I also went in massive anxiety in front of him, was very depressed broke down and cried was panicking and pleading for him to reconsider and to work with me but he still refused. Another section  from the NICE GUIDELINES

        '' Symptoms of depression. Withdrawing these drugs can worsen symptoms of clinical depression. The priority is to manage depression first, before attempting drug withdrawal — see the CKS topic on Depression.

        Symptoms of anxiety — see the CKS topic on Generalized anxiety disorder. Withdrawing treatment when significant symptoms of anxiety are present is likely to make symptoms worse and is therefore unlikely to succeed. However, when symptoms are reasonably well controlled and stable it may be possible to attempt careful drug withdrawal.

        Symptoms of long-term insomnia. If insomnia is severe, consider treating this with non-drug treatments prior to starting withdrawal of a benzodiazepine or z-drug — see the CKS topic on Insomnia.

        Any medical problems and whether these are well controlled and stable. If problems are causing significant distress, consider managing these first, prior to starting withdrawal of benzodiazepines or z-drugs.

 

Consider whether the withdrawal of the benzodiazepine or z-drug can be appropriately managed in primary care.

 

    People are considered suitable if they:

        Are willing, committed, and compliant, and have adequate social support.

        Have no previous history of complicated drug withdrawal.

        Are able to attend regular reviews.

 

THE NICE GUIDELINES https://cks.nice.org.uk/benzodiazepine-and-z-drug-withdrawal#!scenario

 

 

He's doing completely the OPPOSITE to the guidelines he's insisting he's following???

 

Love Nova xxx  :smitten: :smitten:

 

 

 

Love Nova xxx  :smitten:

[[Aj...]]

I thought you had probably already seen that.

 

I hate Drs!