DOSE ANYOE KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE LAW OF CONSENT REGARDING BENZOS IN UK

[[no...]]

I wonder if you are referring to this legal case .. it is about informed consent ... now I don't know if "tapering" would be regarded as "treatment".  It may not but I am no legal expert.

 

http://www.bmj.com/content/350/bmj.h1481

 

 

Fiona

 

 

 

 

Informed consent: https://www.gmc-uk.org/guidance/ethical_guidance/consent_guidance_index.asp

 

Don't rely on that ...

Hi Liberty  thats from 2008 the consent law has been changed since then

 

 

 

 

 

Defining consent

For consent to be valid, it must be voluntary and informed, and the person consenting must have the capacity to make the decision.

 

These terms are explained below:

 

    voluntary –

The decision to either consent or not to consent to treatment must be made by the person themselves, and must not be influenced by pressure from medical staff, friends or family

 

 

informed – the person must be given all of the information in terms of what the treatment involves, including the benefits and risks, whether there are reasonable alternative treatments, and what will happen if treatment doesn't go ahead

    capacity – the person must be capable of giving consent, which means they understand the information given to them and they can use it to make an informed decision

 

If an adult has the capacity to make a voluntary and informed decision to consent to or refuse a particular treatment, their decision must be respected.

 

 

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/consent-to-treatment/

 

 

Love Nova xxx  :smitten:

[[no...]]

  I just found this as well as I live In Wales and our law differs from English law, here in Wales '' on the NHS Website ''Voluntary consent'' goes one step further look look at this '

 

 

Introduction

 

Consent to treatment is the principle that a person must give permission before they receive any type of medical treatment, test or examination. This must be done on the basis of an explanation by a clinician.

 

Consent from a patient is needed regardless of the procedure – whether it's a physical examination, organ donation or something else. The principle of consent is an important part of medical ethics and the international human rights law.

 

 

'If an adult has the capacity to make a voluntary and informed decision to consent to or refuse a particular treatment, their decision must be respected. This is still the case even if refusing treatment would result in their death, or the death of their unborn child.

 

https://www.nhsdirect.wales.nhs.uk/encyclopaedia/c/article/consenttotreatment/

 

 

So My Doctor is definitely breaking the law in Wales by trying to force me off one drug and onto a higher dose of another against my will??  I will write that letter today.

 

 

Love Nova xxx  :smitten:

[[Ba...]]

Fiona,

 

Am curious, is nitrazapam like valium? 

I also have been on probably about 40 years so am curious.

 

Thank you!

[[no...]]

Fiona,

 

Am curious, is nitrazapam like valium? 

I also have been on probably about 40 years so am curious.

 

Thank you!

Hi  Barbara  Fiona will answer you but I am just letting you know I was on Nitrazepam and many other different Benzodiazepines over the year's, and in my personal experience no two Benzos were ever the same, its not a case of if it s a Benzo, its a Benzo. I have found that mind set not just amongst Doctors but the general public too, their all different in one way or the other although they tend to be the same family of drugs, out of all the Benzos I was put on I personally would say Ativan was hell but this Diazepam/Valium is definitely the worse one for the zillions of hell symptoms its given me. And the number of year's I've spent trying to get the hell off of it, but  no doubt every individual that gets injured by just one Benzo probably believes that's the worse on ever as that's probably what I would think too had I only ever taken one Benzo over many year's.

 

 

Love Nova xxx  :smitten:

[[no...]]

Its definitely ILLEGAL in UK under Consent law, for  Doctor to stop you or force you to do anything regarding meds your on against your will 

 

 

''Respect for patients’ autonomy( It means your rights, freedom to make your own decisions without force or pressure) is expressed in consent law; to impose care or treatment on people without respecting their wishes and right to self-determination is not only unethical, but illegal. http://www.medicalprotection.org/uk/resources/factsheets/wales/wales-factsheets/uk-wal-consent-the-basics

 

 

Love Nova xxx  :smitten:

[[lo...]]

Fiona,

 

Am curious, is nitrazapam like valium? 

I also have been on probably about 40 years so am curious.

 

Thank you!

 

Nitrazepam is a sleeping pill and muscle relaxant.  It is meant to be taken at bedtime so may be stronger than valium which is meant to be taken during the day.  I don't know the precise differences between them.

 

Best Wishes

 

Fiona 

[[lo...]]

Thanks for the links, Nova 

[[Mi...]]

Hi, I came here this evening regarding the same issue. My GP retired and the new one dropped my Diazepam by 1mg a day, from 5-4. I had an extreme mental breakdown a couple of months later. i was also on hrt and steroids for Lupus. I managed to avoid her further attempts to drop the drug.

 

Recently I have had a health crisis and she was calling me to do a med review whilst I am in the midst of Cancer investigations and am awaiting an MRI result.

 

I changed practice because it appeared that the remaining partners see me as a difficult patient and were awful to me.

 

The new GP has said I need to go to the surgery mo thly in order to  get the drugs that the GP got me hooked on. I am mortified and I am so alone.

 

My advice is to contact MIND and ask for an advocate to attend the surgery and speak on your behalf. The advocate can also witness the fact that you are not mentally ill. They carry a lot of unofficial power and no GP can barr you for needing an advocate as it would be disability discrimination in most cases.

 

Send me a PM if you would like to

[[lo...]]

I am so sorry this is happening to you.  I am aghast at what is going on in the UK. 

 

Are you aware of the current campaign on prescribed drug dependence.  We are concerned that the campaign and media publicity will result in GPs trying to force patents off the drugs.

 

I am happy to PM with you.

 

Fiona 

 

[[Mi...]]

Hey Fiona, haven't heard about that campaign. My GP, well the one who took over from my nice GP who actually listened to me said there were "new guidelines". I know the ""guidelines" are years if not decades old.

I have no support at all and now have to go for the prescription exactly like a street addict. Mortified

[[no...]]

Hey Fiona, haven't heard about that campaign. My GP, well the one who took over from my nice GP who actually listened to me said there were "new guidelines". I know the ""guidelines" are years if not decades old.

I have no support at all and now have to go for the prescription exactly like a street addict. Mortified

Hi Missanonimity  they can't do it, read the link  on my post I quoted below, I have to wait until Monday as my new Doctor is also treating me like a street drug addict, for year's I've had my Benzos every 28 days ALL meds I ever was on were every 28 day's and now he's put my Benzos on a weekly prescription? I rang the surgery but he's away until Monday as is the practice manager I also want to speak to, to save me having to type another epic post regarding it hers part of a post I just did on another thread

 

Any way I am still also going to stand by ''The law of consent', and as I can't get to a post box I remembered I can Email it instead so I took pictures of the letter I wrote sent then to my PC and will get the Surgery Mangers Address and then email it if the Doctor tells me tomorrow he's still going ahead with his shit.

 

Also he can't do it under ''The European Human rights act'' either so either way he's acting illegally. And the case that bought about our rights regarding our right to say what happens with our medication  is all over the internet its on this link here below along with the Human rights act and lots of other information why the Doctor CAN NOT make me, or anyone else come off or drop ANY drug I fear will cause me problems or harm to do so.

 

Also he LOVES Amitriptyline I CT of ages ago well year's ago he was like a fkn walking advert for them when he was here I'm sure he's getting bloody paid to promote  it he said ' I REALLY like this drug'' lots of times and kept going on about how wonderful it is WELL LET HIM EFFIN TAKE IT THEN!!!! The withdrawal is the SAME as coming off Benzos and I bloody CT'd it while in unbeknown Benzo withdrawal

 

And he thinks putting you on a high dose will compensate for any Benzo withdrawal??? THE MAN IS A PRICK!!!! I am pissed off as I've had to wait four days stressed to hell as I want to get it sorted out, waiting is the worse thing ever, especially when you know you have a right and the Doctor thiks he can do just what he wants? Monday can't come quick enough for me I can tell you I'm not sleeping as Its on my mind 24 hours a day until I can get it done tomorrow. Anyway the supreme court reversed informed consent in favour of the piatint not the Doctors say so I will repat again its illegal in this country to do what my Doctor is doing he can be sued and in some cases get struck off  and have his licence to practice stripped from him as well by the GMC ( General Medical Council)

 

Supreme Court reverses informed consent ruling: https://ukhumanrightsblog.com/2015/03/13/supreme-court-reverses-informed-consent-ruling-sidaway-is-dead/

 

 

And this post below as well

 

 

Here is another 'Fun Fact''  I found out yesterday after ringing a number on some information I posted that its actually a Website for ''Doctors only'', so I said that is as well maybe so your telling me that what I'm reading proves that my Doctor is acting illegally and its on a Doctors only Membership Website?

 

They then were trying to get rid of me when I told them I was a member of the public and  I then read to them  word for word what it says about '' The Law of Consent'' on the'' Doctors only website'' which was

 

 

Respect for patients’ autonomy is expressed in consent law; to impose care or treatment on people without respecting their wishes and right to self-determination is not only unethical, but illegal

 

And thats on a DOCTORS ONLY Website

 

The patient should be given time to ask questions

 

 

When I questioned him he told me ''Its not open for discussion' and refused to listen to me, well he walked out of my home leaving me distressed and crying when I was still talking to him

 

 

 

The patient must be able to give their consent freely – pressuring patients into consenting to treatment invalidates the consent. To ensure that consent is freely given, patients should, where possible, be given time to consider their options before deciding to proceed with a proposed treatment.

 

 

 

 

When I told him he was endangering me he said  'Well if it happens it happens' I then said 'Doctor if you do what your proposing you may as well sign my death certificate' to which he replied 'Well is happening' meaning he's going to stop my Diazepam after ripping me off them 2mg a time or completely with no warning?

I LIVE IN WALES AND THAT'S ON A WALES DOCTOR'S WEBSITE,  WHERE HE'S PROBABLY A MEMBER ??  He's a ''MEMBER'' alright in every sense of the word the DICK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  :tickedoff: :tickedoff:

 

 

Love Nova xxx  :smitten:

 

 

 

 

 

[[Mi...]]

OMG, I am so shocked. I am so sorry youre going through this. What is most shocking is that we are on such low doses. I was on 30mg Diazepam 20yrs ago and took myself off. My old G.P knew this about me. When I went back on 5 it was because i couldn't work. We got me back to work. OK he left me on them for 10yrs but he was trying to help me. He would never have done this to me. All of the guidelines say some patients can not be taken off the drugs.

 

My new GP said "You wont get Diazepam on repeat here..Mentioned my town saying "Its a ---thing I am afraid". ie, my town is full of street addicts therefore I must be dealt with in the same way.

 

My daughters friend said to her she would bring me some from Europe. I had to explain that it was not legal. So by doing this kind of thing the GPs are almost making criminals of us. If I wasn't who I am I could have said thanks and that poor girl could have been potentially drug running.

 

Were not addicts, our brain chemistry is altered and were just smart enough to know.

 

So is it illegal for the G.P to make me attend monthly to get a prescription? Or illegal to force me to cut? I begged the GP to put me back up to 5 when i had the breakdown. He said no we can't do that I am afraid. I told him about the harm OCD and me not being able to function suddenly. I know now it was the 1mg a day cut catching up to my brain after 6-8 weeks and bang. i am still not really over it

[[no...]]

OMG, I am so shocked. I am so sorry youre going through this. What is most shocking is that we are on such low doses. I was on 30mg Diazepam 20yrs ago and took myself off. My old G.P knew this about me. When I went back on 5 it was because i couldn't work. We got me back to work. OK he left me on them for 10yrs but he was trying to help me. He would never have done this to me. All of the guidelines say some patients can not be taken off the drugs.

 

My new GP said "You wont get Diazepam on repeat here..Mentioned my town saying "Its a ---thing I am afraid". ie, my town is full of street addicts therefore I must be dealt with in the same way.

 

My daughters friend said to her she would bring me some from Europe. I had to explain that it was not legal. So by doing this kind of thing the GPs are almost making criminals of us. If I wasn't who I am I could have said thanks and that poor girl could have been potentially drug running.

 

Were not addicts, our brain chemistry is altered and were just smart enough to know.

 

So is it illegal for the G.P to make me attend monthly to get a prescription? Or illegal to force me to cut? I begged the GP to put me back up to 5 when i had the breakdown. He said no we can't do that I am afraid. I told him about the harm OCD and me not being able to function suddenly. I know now it was the 1mg a day cut catching up to my brain after 6-8 weeks and bang. i am still not really over it

Hi MA  its illegal to force us off or too cut unless we request it, I'm a bloody wreak waiting for tomorrow to come I wanted to get it sorted Friday but he wasn't there neither was the practice manager, I also think my problems the same as yours.

 

There's high volume of drug addicts in this area , I'm 58 been on them and trying to get off them years!! I like you was in 20mg and got myself right down but I'm suffering terribly and was in unbeknown tolerance withdrawal for year's, I only moved to this place as the home I lived in for year's, they moved a 20 something drug head in above me who made my life hell,and I had to up-dose from 3.5 MG to 10MG to move as I couldn't get off the floor at the lower dose my old Dr;s were happy to let me do things my way and even then I was very ill.

 

I had a good stash put away but then I had to do that up-dose now its nearly all gone, so I'm going to be Royal screwed if he stops it completely which he could do by tomorrow morning  and I don't have enough to taper down properly either. My old Doctors didn't know I had updosed but at least I was getting my full prescription anyway as they knew I had cut form 20mg to 8mg but I didn't tell them I was tapering any lower

 

Love Nova xxx  :smitten:  

[[Mi...]]

Think about calling mind Nova, even if only to get a witness to how sane you are now. I can go from the most articulate calm individual to presenting like a psyche patient if the drug is dropped. I have to try and get a supply tomorrow as I was confused about when my script ran out and the new GP didnt check when it was last issued. I will no doubt have to go down there again and sit and wait to be griĺled before they hand it over...

 

When I met the new Dr on Friday she did not look at me. I sat there as she went through my repeat meds. Interestingly i am also on Codeine which i think is probably just as bad as Diazepam but she had no issue putting that on repeat. When I was unable to walk over Christmas having suddenly been struck down with some weird ailment they issued naproxen. This medicine has a "Black box" warning. I have taken about 5 of the 24 they gave me. I realise now though with my lupus and the weak state of my body i would rather lose my job than play Russian roulette with this drug.

 

Universal Credit topped my income up following my emotional meltown after the cut. I pulled myself up and got a new full time job. Now having been off they paid me £32.00 for the month and are demanding i attend a health assessment. The whole world seems to have gone mad for me at the moment. Everyone knows that these things are designed to demonstrate you are fit to work. i already work full time and would need to take a day off to attend. it would cost me £40.00 to get to the apt. Whole thing is a nonsesical scam. Meanwhile ppl are  claiming disability and FB shows them off on holidays Scuba diving 

[[gi...]]

I wish everybody all the best on this thread.

[[no...]]

Think about calling mind Nova, even if only to get a witness to how sane you are now. I can go from the most articulate calm individual to presenting like a psyche patient if the drug is dropped. I have to try and get a supply tomorrow as I was confused about when my script ran out and the new GP didnt check when it was last issued. I will no doubt have to go down there again and sit and wait to be griĺled before they hand it over...

 

When I met the new Dr on Friday she did not look at me. I sat there as she went through my repeat meds. Interestingly i am also on Codeine which i think is probably just as bad as Diazepam but she had no issue putting that on repeat. When I was unable to walk over Christmas having suddenly been struck down with some weird ailment they issued naproxen. This medicine has a "Black box" warning. I have taken about 5 of the 24 they gave me. I realise now though with my lupus and the weak state of my body i would rather lose my job than play Russian roulette with this drug.

 

Universal Credit topped my income up following my emotional meltown after the cut. I pulled myself up and got a new full time job. Now having been off they paid me £32.00 for the month and are demanding i attend a health assessment. The whole world seems to have gone mad for me at the moment. Everyone knows that these things are designed to demonstrate you are fit to work. i already work full time and would need to take a day off to attend. it would cost me £40.00 to get to the apt. Whole thing is a nonsesical scam. Meanwhile ppl are  claiming disability and FB shows them off on holidays Scuba diving 

Hi MA I don't use FB any more I shut my account down 11 year's ago but I know other arseholes who are on there flashing pictures of their lovely holidays in Mexico, cruising and boozing while on  full disability??

 

And people who are really ill can't get it or are getting kicked off? I am definitely ringing my GP tomorrow, and if he refuses to back down then I'm sending a letter of complaint via email as I can't get to a post box or post office,  to the practice manager like the patient advisory services told me too and I've also put all the evidence I've posted in there about the ''Law of consent'' as back up too especially when your getting it off a Doctors website and it says it on there?  I was also advised by a Benzo help line to put at the end of my letter ''2017 LAW OF CONSENT' as its been revised and updated last year, I was also told to do that by some one whose taken a master class on it to put 2017 LAW OF CONSENT' as well.

 

And the other thing I forgot was my previous GP put me on the waiting list for a social worker and  community health Doctor when I requested help as I couldn't cope with it any more, and he said 'the community health Doctors are the ones to help you as there trained for it a GP is no, but its along wait and don't change any more doses while your waiting as he knew how ill I was. So I will tell him that tomorrow as well, and if he wants to get in the way when another Doctor has already applied for me to see a specialist then he's going to pull me off before my appointment comes through then he's making more waves isn't he?

 

 

Another GP already said GP's aren't the ones trained up to do it, and when I was under the Comunity health team before not one Doctor on that team suggested or tried to pull me off the drug I asked for a lower dose Diazepam myself so it was easier to lower the doses. I threw away thousands literally over the year's where I was cutting down and getting rid of them so I wasn't tempted to put the dose back up, I  only stashed some when I got under 5mg as I was getting paranoid about messing the doses as the cuts were much smaller. If only I knew than what may happen it was large black bags full I was getting rid of for years!! Well my friend was putting them in a large skip in their work place for me as I was worried kids or anyone could get them from my bin. So we shall see what happens tomorrow, I'll let everyone know anyway.

 

 

Love Nova xxx  :smitten:

 

 

[[Mi...]]

I will check in tomorrow, can't believe you're going through all this too. How many more I wonder are out there alone. I've only had the amounts prescribed rarely took extra, never thrown any away.

 

I have to go back to work tomorrow after 6 days sickness, then try to get a script after work..Ohh joy.

 

I wonder how I am holding it together as far as I am. Ive been in pain in my pelvis since November, at times worse than childbirth. No support and fighting to get the medics actually hear me. There certainly is a difference between listening and hearing ***sigh***

 

 

[[gi...]]

How do I unsubscribe from this thread?

 

It's the most notorious!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[[me...]]

How do I unsubscribe from this thread?

 

It's the most notorious!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Once we've posted on a thread we're "stuck" with it.  It's just the way our software works. 

[[Mi...]]

Hey Nova, any further forward?

 

I had to have a chat with a young G.P, better than most I guess. He insisted on starting to reduce me but did it nicely. The conversation went from him suggesting that I reduce  1mg a week but he settled on .5mg a day. I had to point out to him that that was actually more like 3.5mgs weekly

 

He took the time to explain why in our town there is a crackdown. Apparently 100% of suicidal overdose cases include Benzos in my town.

 

He actually listened to me, got a bit fed up with me when i said I am I'm crisis as he thought i was saying i won't cut. When he realised I was simply explaining my situation not crying off he relaxed again.

 

He said how about .5mg every other day and then stabilize for a while. The notion of 5% floored him. He said that's about 0.2%. No way are they going to entertain this . I mentioned the Ashton protocol and no response. He said he was very happy to work to help me reduce comfortably.

 

I explained why I left the GP practice which is literally across the road. He said 1mg a day cut was far too much.

 

So it begins.....

 

Do let us know how you got on today

[[lo...]]

I am glad you are able to discuss this with your GP.  I hope you can manage to taper at a pace that is manageable.

 

Fiona 

[[Mi...]]

Thanks Fiona, never laid eyes on the boy as it was a phone call. He didn't patronize me. The woman I saw was the opposite. Feels like he actually gives  a shizzle whereas she didn't bother to look at me.

 

Amazing what a difference a kind word makes in a persons life.

[[lo...]]

That is really good, I am so pleased.

 

Fiona 

[[no...]]

  Hi all  I haven't sent the letter yet but will explain why, I spoke to the Head Dr  as the Dr that came to my home wasn't there again neither was the practice manager, and he said ( well spent 12 minutes rudely yelling at me and over me trying to talk) that once the other Dr has read my notes if he thinks there's no reason to keep me on them any longer them their going to take me off  But he was yelling at me being as they haven't done it yet  as the other Dr hasn't read all my paper notes yet, what's my problem? as I'm getting my 8MG weekly anyway.

 

 

I was trying to explain to him that I have severe  hyperacusis, along with tenacious tinnitus, and am worried that I maybe unable to make a weekly phone call as  for the prescription to be delivered as using the phone is agony! He also still insists their using the NICE Guidelines, and reused to look under NICE Guidelines Benzodiazepine and Z Drug withdrawal when I asked him too. They also will only prescribed Benzodiazepines on a weekly not monthly basis although I asked why I still get the other medication monthly, and I only get them as I'm terrified they  will stop the Diazepam if they know I stopped all the other medication ages ago

 

 

Anyway they won't budge as its their ''surgery's way of doing it'' so if they decided to stop you with no warning then they just do it. He even totally disregarded the fact I am on the waiting list to see a community health Dr whose trained in this field, and said if they decide to take me off they will do so regardless of what Dr's I'm waiting to see as he considers himself and all the other Dr's in his practice ''experts'' on taking people off Benzodiazepines by ripping them off at the highest dose possible as quick as possible???  Unbelievable!

 

 

So my plan is now being as they haven't cut my 8mg .....yet.    I was thinking that  it would be the best to leave it as it is for now rather than possibly add to fuel to the fire by sending the letter now as I can't complain about something that's not happened yet, and although the Dr in my home said he was going to cut my prescription and rip me off them that day, so far I am getting my 8mg dose weekly instead of monthly as its their procedure for prescribing Benzodiazepines and I've been told that its normal practice in other sugery's as well. So if any change then the letters going in pronto.

 

 

 

Love Nova xxx  :smitten:

 

[[lo...]]

I am so sorry, Nova, I really am.

 

Fiona