The benefits of telling the truth

[[Lo...]]

And honestly, why in the world would anyone take these pills if they didn't have pretty severe anxiety in the first place? They are strong and there is no point in taking them when a person isn't anxious. It's not just about quitting pills. It's really about treating the root cause of this, and unless that pain has been addressed, being benzo free doesn't mean all that much. It's so much more than about quitting pills.

 

Although anxiety and panic can also be triggered by non-psychological factors, what you're saying here is largely true.  There are other things that often need to be fixed in addition to getting off the pills.  So, back to the title of this thread.  The benefits of telling the truth.  We need to tell ourselves the truth.  Truth not just about ourselves but about others and about human nature in general.  This can open the door to peace.  There are very few shrinks who have the skills to help us do this.  We have to do it ourselves.

 

[Guest [sa...]]

And honestly, why in the world would anyone take these pills if they didn't have pretty severe anxiety in the first place? They are strong and there is no point in taking them when a person isn't anxious. It's not just about quitting pills. It's really about treating the root cause of this, and unless that pain has been addressed, being benzo free doesn't mean all that much. It's so much more than about quitting pills.

 

Many people simply take them because they had to obey the doctors opinion, Others were prescribed for other things non-anxiety related.

[Guest [sa...]]

And honestly, why in the world would anyone take these pills if they didn't have pretty severe anxiety in the first place? They are strong and there is no point in taking them when a person isn't anxious. It's not just about quitting pills. It's really about treating the root cause of this, and unless that pain has been addressed, being benzo free doesn't mean all that much. It's so much more than about quitting pills.

 

Although anxiety and panic can also be triggered by non-psychological factors, what you're saying here is largely true.  There are other things that often need to be fixed in addition to getting off the pills.  So, back to the title of this thread.  The benefits of telling the truth.  We need to tell ourselves the truth.  Truth not just about ourselves but about others and about human nature in general.  This can open the door to peace.  There are very few shrinks who have the skills to help us do this.  We have to do it ourselves.

 

What exactly is this "truth" about ~human nature~?

[[Ph...]]

And honestly, why in the world would anyone take these pills if they didn't have pretty severe anxiety in the first place? They are strong and there is no point in taking them when a person isn't anxious. It's not just about quitting pills. It's really about treating the root cause of this, and unless that pain has been addressed, being benzo free doesn't mean all that much. It's so much more than about quitting pills.

 

Although anxiety and panic can also be triggered by non-psychological factors, what you're saying here is largely true.  There are other things that often need to be fixed in addition to getting off the pills.  So, back to the title of this thread.  The benefits of telling the truth.  We need to tell ourselves the truth.  Truth not just about ourselves but about others and about human nature in general.  This can open the door to peace.  There are very few shrinks who have the skills to help us do this.  We have to do it ourselves.

 

What exactly is this "truth" about ~human nature~?

 

When you understand the origins of human behavior, you realize that to a very large extent, people are not really in charge of they what they do, say and believe.  This includes you and me, right this very instant.  What's the benefit to us in realizing this?  We're less inclined to emotionally react to the offenses of other people, and we're less likely to beat ourselves up for our own behaviors and mistakes.  We understand what's going on.  It's not the big deal it used to be.  Life batters us less.  We suffer less.

 

[[Lo...]]

I think PhotoBugSF is onto something. To me, the "truth" about human nature is basically a vulnerability to conditioned role playing and over-identifying with the temporary role. Basically, going to the Doctor invokes anxiety. The BP may go up. The white coat syndrome happens, and the Dr. may get concerned and Rx blood pressure pills. The mandatory weigh-in. Oops. Had too much to eat during the Holidays. The weather is gray and gloomy, and the warm glow of an antidepressant may help it for a while. Feeling vulnerable, and a bit scared and having to wait for a long time, the self-esteem deserts the room All the wall posters about different diseases. Yuck. More fear. Mention of the Rx drug names and companies on the posters. The hurried, overworked doctor comes in. The patient mentions stress and depression even though he/she didn't mean to. The patient may be an esteemed professional who may feel like million bucks in his own domain, but, he's left his domain where he feels comfortable and enters a domain where he all too readily plays the patient role. "Better not irritate the doctor, to make sure the patient gets quality treatment". Much like the idea of not criticizing a server in the restaurant until he brings the food in. You never know what they may do with it before.

 

I don't know. People go through a lot of situations every day when they are in place of power, equal, or inferior to others by the virtue of what domain they are in. Someone in benzo withdrawal is chemically fragile and vulnerable and cannot stand up for himself the way he normally would. The new rules take place, somehow. What is an abnormal state of being and living is what a person gets used to eventually, as the old self is gradually forgotten. Something different emerges. Not good or bad. Just many of us come out of this so different......

 

So, by accepting the role of a patient and identifying too deeply with it, a huge problem gets created. The system wants this. It's the way it's been done for decades, and it shall stay the same. You'd think that an ER doctor, upon seeing patients in throes of benzo withdrawal would do something and raise awareness. But no. Life goes on, there's salary at stake. Better not say much.

 

The way a person avoids benzos is by reading between the lines, and understanding that what is not being said is more important than what is being said. The fake uncomfortable laughter of a "specialist" when he talks about Xanax abuse. The nervous laughter in the audience. The ease of talking about hard drugs, yet a stony silence when talking about Rx drugs. Very telling, for sure. The way how a dinner conversation shifts abruptly when someone mentions sedative tolerance. The confused stares and fear in the air. The big elephant in the room everyone feels but no one wants to talk about. The healthy curiosity that gets shut down and gets minimized. The dire warning about all the doomsday scenarios without actually explaining the mechanisms of how someone could fall into such. "We're not going to tell you because we don't know ourselves. We 've only learned to observe it accurately once it actually happens. And we're too scared to help at this point."

[[Ph...]]

I think PhotoBugSF is onto something. To me, the "truth" about human nature is basically a vulnerability to conditioned role playing and over-identifying with the temporary role. Basically, going to the Doctor invokes anxiety. The BP may go up. The white coat syndrome happens, and the Dr. may get concerned and Rx blood pressure pills. The mandatory weigh-in. Oops. Had too much to eat during the Holidays. The weather is gray and gloomy, and the warm glow of an antidepressant may help it for a while. Feeling vulnerable, and a bit scared and having to wait for a long time, the self-esteem deserts the room All the wall posters about different diseases. Yuck. More fear. Mention of the Rx drug names and companies on the posters. The hurried, overworked doctor comes in. The patient mentions stress and depression even though he/she didn't mean to. The patient may be an esteemed professional who may feel like million bucks in his own domain, but, he's left his domain where he feels comfortable and enters a domain where he all too readily plays the patient role. "Better not irritate the doctor, to make sure the patient gets quality treatment". Much like the idea of not criticizing a server in the restaurant until he brings the food in. You never know what they may do with it before.

 

I don't know. People go through a lot of situations every day when they are in place of power, equal, or inferior to others by the virtue of what domain they are in. Someone in benzo withdrawal is chemically fragile and vulnerable and cannot stand up for himself the way he normally would. The new rules take place, somehow. What is an abnormal state of being and living is what a person gets used to eventually, as the old self is gradually forgotten. Something different emerges. Not good or bad. Just many of us come out of this so different......

 

So, by accepting the role of a patient and identifying too deeply with it, a huge problem gets created. The system wants this. It's the way it's been done for decades, and it shall stay the same. You'd think that an ER doctor, upon seeing patients in throes of benzo withdrawal would do something and raise awareness. But no. Life goes on, there's salary at stake. Better not say much.

 

The way a person avoids benzos is by reading between the lines, and understanding that what is not being said is more important than what is being said. The fake uncomfortable laughter of a "specialist" when he talks about Xanax abuse. The nervous laughter in the audience. The ease of talking about hard drugs, yet a stony silence when talking about Rx drugs. Very telling, for sure. The way how a dinner conversation shifts abruptly when someone mentions sedative tolerance. The confused stares and fear in the air. The big elephant in the room everyone feels but no one wants to talk about. The healthy curiosity that gets shut down and gets minimized. The dire warning about all the doomsday scenarios without actually explaining the mechanisms of how someone could fall into such. "We're not going to tell you because we don't know ourselves. We 've only learned to observe it accurately once it actually happens. And we're too scared to help at this point."

 

Said by LF:  <<"To me, the "truth" about human nature is basically a vulnerability to conditioned role playing and over-identifying with the temporary role. Basically, going to the Doctor invokes anxiety.">>

 

Good observation.  That's certainly part of it.  You're deconstructing the illusion, hacking the game.  But this is just the beginning.  You're only just now beginning to pry open the door to the whole charade.  There's so much more.

[[Ha...]]

A woman I know told the truth (to a so-called Court appointed expert psychiatrist) about her benzo and other psych drugs prescribed to her by a FORENSIC psychiatrist. She was prescribed ADHD meds which made her anxious and she had trouble sleeping. So the Psych doctor off-set her anxiety and insomnia sxs with benzos. This led to a downward spiral of dependence and abuse (in the background she was in a terribly dysfunctional and power imbalance relationship) . She thought if she told the truth, and explained how she had spent a year coming off the prescribed drugs and proved by lab tests that there were none in her system was the right way to go. But telling the truth backfired on her and she lost custody of her little girl. Whilst she told the truth her egocentric partner lied (he knew how to play the psychiatrist and came across a paragon of virtue). He got custody. She has not taken any psycho drugs for 4 years. Despite her tests proving negative, the Court made her undergo further weekly tests (ignorantly) for 3 years to prove her innocents. Her results were negative each week. The matter went to final hearing and she had to self-represent (ex is a wealthy lawyer who ran her into financial ruin through the court system). That same "expert" witness said on the witness stand that 3 years of weekly clear results was still not enough to prove her long-term sobriety. She asked him what else could she have done to prove herself. He went around in circles trying to muddy his answer. He was clearly biased toward the father (professional courtesy perhaps?) The obvious answer was "she could have done nothing more". On this ONE "Expert's" advise, the Court ruled in favor of the father. She can see her 5 year old child now but only a few days a fortnight on the condition she is subjected to monthly tests ordered at random by the ex for yet another 2 years (and how much does he loves still having control over her). I always thought truth pays off until I saw the result of telling the truth in the context of the family court system.   

[[Lo...]]

Oh, what a cruel twist. Being prescribed the ADHD meds and benzos by a FORENSIC psychiatrist out of all people. Shouldn't these folks be in the know about these drugs more than the others? It's like getting Xanax from a homeopathic doctor as a 1st line of treatment.

[[Th...]]

Well, in general one benefit is that you never need to try remember afterwards what you have said to someone when you have told the truth as you can rely you have told how things are. 😳

[[sp...]]

LoazepamFree2015: that was a great article on Mad in America. Thank you for sharing.

[[Lo...]]

LoazepamFree2015: that was a great article on Mad in America. Thank you for sharing.

 

Thanks. I also found this one very enlightening:

 

https://www.madinamerica.com/2013/01/civilians/

[Guest [sa...]]

And honestly, why in the world would anyone take these pills if they didn't have pretty severe anxiety in the first place? They are strong and there is no point in taking them when a person isn't anxious. It's not just about quitting pills. It's really about treating the root cause of this, and unless that pain has been addressed, being benzo free doesn't mean all that much. It's so much more than about quitting pills.

 

Although anxiety and panic can also be triggered by non-psychological factors, what you're saying here is largely true.  There are other things that often need to be fixed in addition to getting off the pills.  So, back to the title of this thread.  The benefits of telling the truth.  We need to tell ourselves the truth.  Truth not just about ourselves but about others and about human nature in general.  This can open the door to peace.  There are very few shrinks who have the skills to help us do this.  We have to do it ourselves.

 

What exactly is this "truth" about ~human nature~?

 

When you understand the origins of human behavior, you realize that to a very large extent, people are not really in charge of they what they do, say and believe.  This includes you and me, right this very instant.  What's the benefit to us in realizing this?  We're less inclined to emotionally react to the offenses of other people, and we're less likely to beat ourselves up for our own behaviors and mistakes.  We understand what's going on.  It's not the big deal it used to be.  Life batters us less.  We suffer less.

 

So you think free will doesn't exist, and everything is cause and effect. What i don't understand is how that is "human nature".

 

Also, those are not the only consequences of free will not existing, the way you word it, make it seem like it's just a pretext to be submissive.

[[...]]

I fully agree, and thank you so much for your words! I have tried to "teach" my doctor who prescribed me the benzo about the dangers, effects etc. but she seems to ignore everything. I even gave her a copy of Dr. Heather Ashton's Manual, probably never read it. Anyway, she knows that I have acquired a very good Knowledge of benzos and ADs, and as she is of no help, I have become the one who decides on the medication, tapering off, I have lost my trust in her.

 

I also fully agree what you wrote about the stigma of being in a psychiatry hospital. I checked myself in because I felt more than bad and thought I was about to die. I just wanted some help, and they also tell you to seek help. But never again: It was sheer hell, I felt like a prisoner being punished, the doctors and most of the nurses, ever so arrogant, don't talk to you, as if you were an alien and no human being. They only want to hear that you feel better, if not, they just send you out of their room, increase your medication.  I think they definitely know that you are not strong enough to answer them back or too afraid of.

 

I really wish to go to the public one day and talk about the situation in psychiatric hospitals  and how people who are so vulnerable are being treated and I would like to go to a lawyer. But then, will they believe me or just say your "nuts" anyway. And I also feel some Kind of shame and stigmatized though I shouldn't. I think healthy people would have left the hospital after some hours because it just would make them sick. And we, who are ill and need all the help, are treated awfully, locked up, in rooms with facilites where no patients with other illnesses would stay for one night only.

 

I could write a book about it. But I am so glad that I have the Benzo Buddies and can talk about everything with you. I don't have to convince anybody or justify myself, you are on my side and simply understand and you are more knowledgable than the medical profession.

 

I don't know what I would have done if I hadn't come across Dr. Ashton's Manual and you Buddies. I would have liked to meet Dr. Ashton who really cared for her patients and listened to them and took them seriously. The British benzo people can be proud to have Dr. Ashton. I am not British as you probably have noticed. I so much appreciate all the advice and information etc. I get or can read on the Forum.

 

Thank you so much for starting your topic.

 

With my very best healing wishes to all the Buddies

Buxi

 

 

[[sp...]]

Thanks again LF15! I like Matt's writing quite a bit. I might check out his book too.

 

Thank you for sharing your story Buxi. I had the exact same experience. I decided at the beginning of 2017 that I wasn't going to be a drunk loser who needed pills to sleep every night because of my drinking. As soon as I quit my sleeping pills after about 6 weeks of sobriety, I had horrible rebound akathisia, and felt like I was going to die. Not eventually, right that moment. I also started having recollections of childhood abuse come flooding back and started having tremors, high pulse, clouded cognition and a host of other awful symptoms.

 

At the ER I described exactly what was going on. Provided substance abuse context, and that for whatever reason (I think it was the cessation of the diphenhydramine, which can suppress negative memories) I was suddenly remembering a terrifying childhood. In addition, I had the weird symptoms I had never experienced before.

 

They gave me a bunch of meds to sleep and woke me in a stupor to sign a document (I think it was consent to a hold). I stayed in a locked room in solitude for a few days before I thought they would never let me out. I saw another patient get moved after telling the nurses that he was suicidal, so I thought that was what they wanted to hear. Told a member of the staff I wanted to die (I didn't), and within 5 minutes I was on my way to an inpatient facility where I stayed for 11 days, the whole time growing ever more frustrated that I was being detained. The more frustration I showed, the higher my meds were pushed.

 

Our mental health system is a truly a baffling charade. They steamroll those who are experiencing the most vulnerable moments of their lives and try and convince them they need treatment for the rest of their lives to cure a condition that is almost always acute.

 

I find great comfort in the community here and hope that others feel the same.

 

Time heals all. Be good to yourselves.

[[Lo...]]

Interesting story about Diphenhydramine. I can't help but think whether taking it for sleep for months on end (had a long train commute to work) and abruptly cutting it off when I no longer needed to commute that far somehow ended up with heightened anxiety and Ativan. Just speculating at this point, but I wondered if the anxiety due to travel stress & job stress in addition to Diphen, and the nervous anticipation about the new job kind of created a perfect storm for ativan. It just makes me wonder. Yes, the doses of diphenhydramine were small (25mg), but I still keep wondering.

[[Te...]]

I think PhotoBugSF is onto something. To me, the "truth" about human nature is basically a vulnerability to conditioned role playing and over-identifying with the temporary role. Basically, going to the Doctor invokes anxiety. The BP may go up. The white coat syndrome happens, and the Dr. may get concerned and Rx blood pressure pills. The mandatory weigh-in. Oops. Had too much to eat during the Holidays. The weather is gray and gloomy, and the warm glow of an antidepressant may help it for a while. Feeling vulnerable, and a bit scared and having to wait for a long time, the self-esteem deserts the room All the wall posters about different diseases. Yuck. More fear. Mention of the Rx drug names and companies on the posters. The hurried, overworked doctor comes in. The patient mentions stress and depression even though he/she didn't mean to. The patient may be an esteemed professional who may feel like million bucks in his own domain, but, he's left his domain where he feels comfortable and enters a domain where he all too readily plays the patient role. "Better not irritate the doctor, to make sure the patient gets quality treatment". Much like the idea of not criticizing a server in the restaurant until he brings the food in. You never know what they may do with it before.

 

I don't know. People go through a lot of situations every day when they are in place of power, equal, or inferior to others by the virtue of what domain they are in. Someone in benzo withdrawal is chemically fragile and vulnerable and cannot stand up for himself the way he normally would. The new rules take place, somehow. What is an abnormal state of being and living is what a person gets used to eventually, as the old self is gradually forgotten. Something different emerges. Not good or bad. Just many of us come out of this so different......

 

So, by accepting the role of a patient and identifying too deeply with it, a huge problem gets created. The system wants this. It's the way it's been done for decades, and it shall stay the same. You'd think that an ER doctor, upon seeing patients in throes of benzo withdrawal would do something and raise awareness. But no. Life goes on, there's salary at stake. Better not say much.

 

The way a person avoids benzos is by reading between the lines, and understanding that what is not being said is more important than what is being said. The fake uncomfortable laughter of a "specialist" when he talks about Xanax abuse. The nervous laughter in the audience. The ease of talking about hard drugs, yet a stony silence when talking about Rx drugs. Very telling, for sure. The way how a dinner conversation shifts abruptly when someone mentions sedative tolerance. The confused stares and fear in the air. The big elephant in the room everyone feels but no one wants to talk about. The healthy curiosity that gets shut down and gets minimized. The dire warning about all the doomsday scenarios without actually explaining the mechanisms of how someone could fall into such. "We're not going to tell you because we don't know ourselves. We 've only learned to observe it accurately once it actually happens. And we're too scared to help at this point."

 

It certainly seems exactly as you say. A very insightful post!!

 

 

[[be...]]

I saw the new commercial for Rexulti. Basically, they marketed it as an adjunct if an antidepressant is no longer working. They showed a person going to the doctor's office and bravely admitting that the antidepressant no longer worked, so they get prescribed this. I do rememeber the old Abilify commercial, which was very similar to this, and though I never took it, I recall that its name ended up with -prazole. Ths one, too. Looked it up today and found out that the chemical name for Abilify is Aripiprazole, and the chemical name for Rexulti is Brexpiprazole. Same class of 2nd generation atypical antipsychotic drugs advertised for depression.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brexpiprazole

Brexpiprazole, sold under the brand name Rexulti, is an atypical antipsychotic. It is a dopamine D2 receptor partial agonist and has been described as a "serotonin–dopamine activity modulator" (SDAM). The drug received FDA approval on July 13, 2015 for the treatment of schizophrenia, and as an adjunctive treatment for depression.[2] Although it failed Phase II clinical trials for attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD), it has been designed to provide improved efficacy and tolerability (e.g., less akathisia, restlessness and/or insomnia) over established adjunctive treatments for major depressive disorder (MDD).[3]

 

Ha! They never give up, do they? I remember those abilify ads. Made me turn the channel only to see another one!!!

[[Lo...]]

I saw the new commercial for Rexulti. Basically, they marketed it as an adjunct if an antidepressant is no longer working. They showed a person going to the doctor's office and bravely admitting that the antidepressant no longer worked, so they get prescribed this. I do rememeber the old Abilify commercial, which was very similar to this, and though I never took it, I recall that its name ended up with -prazole. Ths one, too. Looked it up today and found out that the chemical name for Abilify is Aripiprazole, and the chemical name for Rexulti is Brexpiprazole. Same class of 2nd generation atypical antipsychotic drugs advertised for depression.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brexpiprazole

Brexpiprazole, sold under the brand name Rexulti, is an atypical antipsychotic. It is a dopamine D2 receptor partial agonist and has been described as a "serotonin–dopamine activity modulator" (SDAM). The drug received FDA approval on July 13, 2015 for the treatment of schizophrenia, and as an adjunctive treatment for depression.[2] Although it failed Phase II clinical trials for attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD), it has been designed to provide improved efficacy and tolerability (e.g., less akathisia, restlessness and/or insomnia) over established adjunctive treatments for major depressive disorder (MDD).[3]

 

Ha! They never give up, do they? I remember those abilify ads. Made me turn the channel only to see another one!!!

 

Yes, the whole SDAM acronym, of all things. May as well call it SLAM! 

[[be...]]

:thumbsup: :sick:

[[Ph...]]

And honestly, why in the world would anyone take these pills if they didn't have pretty severe anxiety in the first place? They are strong and there is no point in taking them when a person isn't anxious. It's not just about quitting pills. It's really about treating the root cause of this, and unless that pain has been addressed, being benzo free doesn't mean all that much. It's so much more than about quitting pills.

 

Although anxiety and panic can also be triggered by non-psychological factors, what you're saying here is largely true.  There are other things that often need to be fixed in addition to getting off the pills.  So, back to the title of this thread.  The benefits of telling the truth.  We need to tell ourselves the truth.  Truth not just about ourselves but about others and about human nature in general.  This can open the door to peace.  There are very few shrinks who have the skills to help us do this.  We have to do it ourselves.

 

What exactly is this "truth" about ~human nature~?

 

When you understand the origins of human behavior, you realize that to a very large extent, people are not really in charge of they what they do, say and believe.  This includes you and me, right this very instant.  What's the benefit to us in realizing this?  We're less inclined to emotionally react to the offenses of other people, and we're less likely to beat ourselves up for our own behaviors and mistakes.  We understand what's going on.  It's not the big deal it used to be.  Life batters us less.  We suffer less.

 

So you think free will doesn't exist, and everything is cause and effect. What i don't understand is how that is "human nature".

 

Also, those are not the only consequences of free will not existing, the way you word it, make it seem like it's just a pretext to be submissive.

 

Correct.  I don't believe free will exists.  Human nature is the result of genetics, imprinting, variations in biochemistry and group (tribe) influences.  Tribal influences are so strong that they might as well be considered instructions.

[[be...]]

Well what tribe do I belong to? 

[[Be...]]

I believe some people are very limited in their free will.  I think the more damaged your body and brain is, the less free will you have.  Look at disabled people in a wheelchair or a quadriplegic.  How much free will do they have?  What about people with dementia lying in bed and can't focus or think?  Not much free will there.  When your body and brain are damaged, free will goes out the window, IMO.  A healthy mind can be flexible enough to make good decisions for themselves. 

[Guest [sa...]]

And honestly, why in the world would anyone take these pills if they didn't have pretty severe anxiety in the first place? They are strong and there is no point in taking them when a person isn't anxious. It's not just about quitting pills. It's really about treating the root cause of this, and unless that pain has been addressed, being benzo free doesn't mean all that much. It's so much more than about quitting pills.

 

Although anxiety and panic can also be triggered by non-psychological factors, what you're saying here is largely true.  There are other things that often need to be fixed in addition to getting off the pills.  So, back to the title of this thread.  The benefits of telling the truth.  We need to tell ourselves the truth.  Truth not just about ourselves but about others and about human nature in general.  This can open the door to peace.  There are very few shrinks who have the skills to help us do this.  We have to do it ourselves.

 

What exactly is this "truth" about ~human nature~?

 

When you understand the origins of human behavior, you realize that to a very large extent, people are not really in charge of they what they do, say and believe.  This includes you and me, right this very instant.  What's the benefit to us in realizing this?  We're less inclined to emotionally react to the offenses of other people, and we're less likely to beat ourselves up for our own behaviors and mistakes.  We understand what's going on.  It's not the big deal it used to be.  Life batters us less.  We suffer less.

 

So you think free will doesn't exist, and everything is cause and effect. What i don't understand is how that is "human nature".

 

Also, those are not the only consequences of free will not existing, the way you word it, make it seem like it's just a pretext to be submissive.

 

Correct.  I don't believe free will exists.  Human nature is the result of genetics, imprinting, variations in biochemistry and group (tribe) influences.  Tribal influences are so strong that they might as well be considered instructions.

 

But our own choices count as causation, i don't think people are that easy to define.

 

[[be...]]

And honestly, why in the world would anyone take these pills if they didn't have pretty severe anxiety in the first place? They are strong and there is no point in taking them when a person isn't anxious. It's not just about quitting pills. It's really about treating the root cause of this, and unless that pain has been addressed, being benzo free doesn't mean all that much. It's so much more than about quitting pills.

 

Although anxiety and panic can also be triggered by non-psychological factors, what you're saying here is largely true.  There are other things that often need to be fixed in addition to getting off the pills.  So, back to the title of this thread.  The benefits of telling the truth.  We need to tell ourselves the truth.  Truth not just about ourselves but about others and about human nature in general.  This can open the door to peace.  There are very few shrinks who have the skills to help us do this.  We have to do it ourselves.

 

What exactly is this "truth" about ~human nature~?

 

When you understand the origins of human behavior, you realize that to a very large extent, people are not really in charge of they what they do, say and believe.  This includes you and me, right this very instant.  What's the benefit to us in realizing this?  We're less inclined to emotionally react to the offenses of other people, and we're less likely to beat ourselves up for our own behaviors and mistakes.  We understand what's going on.  It's not the big deal it used to be.  Life batters us less.  We suffer less.

 

So you think free will doesn't exist, and everything is cause and effect. What i don't understand is how that is "human nature".

 

Also, those are not the only consequences of free will not existing, the way you word it, make it seem like it's just a pretext to be submissive.

 

Correct.  I don't believe free will exists.  Human nature is the result of genetics, imprinting, variations in biochemistry and group (tribe) influences.  Tribal influences are so strong that they might as well be considered instructions.

 

But our own choices count as causation, i don't think people are that easy to define.

 

:thumbsup:

[[Lo...]]

It's not so much that people don't have free will, as is that it often gets trumped by undue influence, and our social programming prevents us from seeing it when it needs to be seen.