Degree of Benzo Problem a Factor

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Colin, your points are well taken.  I just meant to provide a few comments that I hoped might be useful for consideration.  My use of the term "sub-forum" was simply a demonstration of my technical ignorance and I now understand the semantic difference.  Sorry about that.  As I said, its your forum so do as you feel best.  You had said that the "chewing the fat" expression wasn't really a British expression and I think you are correct.  This is why I thought maybe something a bit less colloquial might be in order.  I'm sorry if I am an annoying pedant.  I only wanted to offer a few observations and suggestions.  Just do what you feel is best and thanks for the consideration and time spent responding.

 

John

[[ja...]]

Washington, that is pretty close to what I was saying.  Everyone with benzo issues has every right to be engaged here but it is important to keep the degree of one's problem in perspective to truly help the other guy with advice.  Plus, I think one does themselves a disservice if they put her or himself in a category that is tougher to break free from if they base their problem on that of someone having used much more product for a longer time.

 

I will give you that folks sure are nice on this site by the way. 

[[Ha...]]

Thanks Colin, Apparently a sensitive subject, so I'll refrain. I like ''chewing the fat''. I apologize for slinging it around. Thanks for taking time to smooth this out.  Hannah                                                              

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This actually turned out to be a very good discussion....

 

We won't always agree on everything..and if we did..it certainly would be boring..I certainly enjoyed this conversation and it did make me think a bit too....

 

The more I thought about it...I think you can apply what Jackson said....to people seeking a timetable of sorts of when they will heal....although there is no set timetable....I do believe....that we do have to keep in mind...all the factors of someone's taper....and recovery time.....before we toss our self in the category...I believe many people read the worst case scenarios..and think...this will be me too...and find out they feared more of what might happen...and most of the bad things they read about did not happen....which proves all benzo withdrawal is not the same...I think we all need to find some balance in weighing those issues..and making sure we don't disregard someone just because they are a "short time user" or a "low dose user".....

 

I think many of you..made very good points....and I hope this section picks up and gets more discussion....in the future...there are some pretty interesting theories and opinons about benzo withdrawal...and while we all may have varying opinions...what a great opportunity to learn from each other....

 

TC

[[Co...]]

Colin, your points are well taken.  I just meant to provide a few comments that I hoped might be useful for consideration.  My use of the term "sub-forum" was simply a demonstration of my technical ignorance and I now understand the semantic difference.  Sorry about that.  As I said, its your forum so do as you feel best.  You had said that the "chewing the fat" expression wasn't really a British expression and I think you are correct.  This is why I thought maybe something a bit less colloquial might be in order.  I'm sorry if I am an annoying pedant.  I only wanted to offer a few observations and suggestions.  Just do what you feel is best and thanks for the consideration and time spent responding.

 

John

 

Bold, in the above, is mine.

 

No need to apologise. I was purely making this clear in case it caused confusion for those that hold a different understanding of "sub-board". I didn't mean it to come across as a correction. Even in within the software forum industry, boards, forums, and threads have differing names, and more confusingly, some of the terms are used interchangeably.

 

You might be right about using something less colloquial. I did assume the phrase to be widely understood. I will give further thought to the title, and welcome suggestions for a better board description (and sticky post). Though, better to use the Feedback board and keep this thread on topic.

 

John, I think it was me that might have come across as a pedant - you certainly did not.

 

Thanks.

[[Co...]]

Thanks Colin, Apparently a sensitive subject, so I'll refrain. I like ''chewing the fat''. I apologize for slinging it around. Thanks for taking time to smooth this out.   Hannah                                                                

 

Hi,

 

However, it appears that the board title and/or description might not work for some. I am open to suggestions (on the feedback board).

[[st...]]

I was going to refrain from posting but........

 

I was on Xanax for 4 months at a dose of 1.5 mg for 1 week and then erratic doses from .5 to 1 mg daily for 3 months.  Tapered off from .5 mg in one month.  I am 22 months off xanax and still having some miserable symptoms but at least the other 80 or so symptoms have left.  I don't buy the longer you are on benzos or the higher doses contributes to a worse tapering experience. 

 

Patty

[[Kc...]]

Should I be afraid???

 

I have been on xanax for 11 years. Tried to stop at smaller doses and shorter times, higher doses and longer times and everything in between, from my personal experience benzo withdralw is a discusting process either way.I'm not gonna get into the politics of this blog but I have received some very valued and helpfull advice and support from people who are taking less then me and for far shorter amounts of time...Thank you Patty for being so supportive and understanding over the past week despite our differences in this process of benzo addiction I couldn't agree with you more, I don't buy the longer you are on benzos or the higher doses contributes to a worse tapering experience either.

[[Ja...]]

This is definitely not an exact science. I don't think anyone knows how they will respond to withdrawal until they try. As far as who has it the hardest? No clue. So many variables...but I think the majority of us who are coming off the benzos suffer to some degree regardless of the dose or duration of use. As for those who can slide off with no wd symptoms......well I'm jealous!

[[Wa...]]

Patty and others, 

 

This is why I completely disagreed with what Jackson was saying.  I was a little harsh in my response to his post because I was afraid that his post would discourage people like you and others to not offer support when I (and others) value all the support and advice I can get regardless of the individuals personal experience.  I also felt that Jackson failed to take into consideration that what people put in their signature line regarding their history or use of benzos, may not include a previous or current abuses and/or addictions of other legal or illegal drugs or alcohol.  He is making an assumption that our signature lines sum up our entire history of use.  I know that is not the case for some people on this forum.  The point of this forum from what I have been able to gather is specifically related to benzo use and a desire to get off of them.

 

Colin,

 

I don't see anything wrong with the title.  That is exactly what we are doing here; "chewing the fat"

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I see everyone's point here..and I think there is some validity in all points...

 

 

I think the most important thing is....despite the length of time one is on benzos.....everyone has the same opportunity at full healing..and that is what is truely important....everyone will heal at a different rate..at whatever rate that person's body decides to heal.....

 

Would I rather be on benzos long term or short term?  Does anyone really want to be on these long term after you know what can happen?  Sure, I would pick short term over long term anyday...but if given the choice to pick never on this junk..that is what I would choose...every time....and I think a lot of people here would say the same thing....

 

Speedy healing to all...good discussion btw....

 

TC

[[Pa...]]

From the Ashton Manual:

 

One reassuring finding from many clinical studies is that eventual success in withdrawal is not affected by duration of use, dosage or type of benzodiazepine, rate of withdrawal, severity of symptoms, psychiatric diagnosis, or previous attempts at withdrawal. Thus from almost any starting point, the motivated long-term user can proceed in good heart.

 

[[cu...]]

The Ashton Manual is certainly the Bible of Benzo withdrawal. I have been reassured of myself on many dark days after reading that same passage. As a short term, low dose user, I can expect to be fully recovered..especially if the long term high dose user can expect to be.

[[ja...]]

Regarding Washington's latest comment regarding folks (me) listing issues with other addictions,  maybe I should remove those.  The point I was making was by listing them was that I could quit smoking, drinking, and mentioned a couple of other things in a blog, but these Benzos are a different ballgame in my estimation.  Again, listing them is hardly a badge of honor (he hinted that I felt that way earlier) as a person would have been wiser to avoid those items as soon as it became evident that they were going to be addictive and/or unhealthy.  Wow, I never thought my original blog would bring out so many comments!

[[Kc...]]

Jackson...I'm so glad you bring up the comparison between benzos and other addictive substances,I strongly agree that they are in a different ball game by my personal estimation and this is hard for some people to understand givin the comonly held assumption that all addictions are the same. I can understand where Washington is coming from, I too was a bit taken back by you're original post which is why I kept reading,I guess you know how to grab peoples attention which I appreciate,thank you for giving us the chance to straighten up some of these assumptions.I think you're right when you say no one knows how they will respond to withdralw until they try and that the majority of us coming of benzos suffer to some degree regardless of the dose or duration.I find it interesting to learn from the personal experiences of others at how different the degrees of benzo withdrawl can be. I hope to hear more from peoples personal experience on this topic it's a nice change from sifting through miles of statistical data put out by the so called "professionals" who's results don't always seem to match up to my experiences.I also hope to hear more from other peoples experiences in the difference between benzos and other substances, I wonder if these differences are as vast as that within benzos themselves as it seems everybody's experience is different no matter what potency of drug, the dose taken and the time they've been on.Thank you again for giving us the chance to sort out some of these assumptions, I've rather enjoyed chewing through the fat some of this stuff is hard to swallow.

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I, too, enjoyed reading through this post.  A change of pace, so to speak.

 

Patty  xo

[[Wa...]]

Jackson,

 

I apologize for the negative reference to your history.  That comment was rude and I should not have included it in my response.  I wasn't feeling well when I read your post (generally I am not feeling well or have not slept when I turn to this forum for support) and as I have a "history" myself I guess I took it kind of personal.  Bottom line is:  Benzos suck and getting off of them sucks more.

[[ja...]]

Washington, all is well between us.  The key is for everyone to find their own level i guess and perhaps my theory on amount of substance used determining the ease of 'kicking it" has not been established.  I ended up removing that other stuff from my history but basically because no one else finds it relevant to post in their deal.  These benzos, while working at times, are tough stuff.  You are right.

[[ja...]]

I was still thinking about this subject and it still does not seem to me that while kicking benzos is ever easy the guy or gal who drops down from say 3 or 4 mgs of Klonopin or Ativan, Xanax, etc. has it just as easy as the person who tapered down from 1 mg for example.  Not sure anyone every said it was but it seems like some hinted that there was an equality of effort connected to getting off benzos.

[[cu...]]

Hey Jackson,

 

I have seen people nearly die from a CT from just 4 mg Valium, and I know folks that have CT off of 1 mg more Ativan (equivalent to 10 mgs valium) with no trouble at all. It depends on the person's body, and how dependent they had become. Baylissa Frederick (author of Benzo Wise) told me that some people just don't develop a dependence to benzo's.

 

cupcake

[[so...]]

my thoughts,  People on large amounts of benzo's most likely were dealing with big issues like major panic, major anxiety or major sleep issues.  Otherwise why  take increasingly larger doses.  Those , like me, given the drug for Rls, found it to be useless and I started my taper 6 weeks in.

Didn't mean it was easy though,  took me about 3.5 months of hell to kick it.

now someone put on the drug who was having lets say panic attacks because of college finals , or a business presentation, might have an easier time dropping once the finals are over and/or the business presentation was finished....  Hence the underlying problem is gone,  and not necessarily waiting for them at the end of their benzo taper as something to deal with without the drug...

My guess is those that have been taking larger doses, for long periods of time, might find it more difficult because the underlying issues  for taking it in the first place may be greater, unless they  find an alternate method to cope  as they go down.