My Liquid Daily Micro Taper (updated)

[[...]]

So you're saying that if you have 10 ml of PG and 7.8 mg of K, then it dissolves fine, but if you add water, then it un-dissolves? I'm confused as to why that would happen.

 

My cousin is a pharmacist. I'll ask her about it to see what she says.

 

Either way, My Mana can avoid any issues by using all PG instead of water, right? 

 

Yes, it will un-dissolve.  It's like a movie theater with only so many seats.  If you ask the liquid to hold more than its capacity it can't do it - eventually there's nowhere left to sit.  I think MM could avoid this issue with 60ml of a 50/50 mix...30ml PG/30ml water.  If she then dosed 3ml a day she would be ingesting only 1.5ml PG a day.  Not bad at all.  I still would not advise the high concentration, but that is me.  You can look all this stuff up.  It's here on BB.  Maybe that thread should be a sticky in the titration section for easy access.

[[Cr...]]

I didn't know that. Thanks! 

[[dd...]]

Hi Crash-another question...I saw you dosed 3x a day...so you started at 1ml 3x a day...right? And you reduced by .01 ml a day...right...so which dose did you reduce? Or did you do the .01 reduction on all three doses? Sorry-I can't do math worth a crap anymore and I have to read something 20 times before my dumb monkey brain can wrap itself around it. I wanted to be younger, but not 3 again :-(

[[my...]]

And here's another question...getting ready with all my stuff!

 

When we go to measure, say, .13 mg/13ml...how do we best do that?  Count 13 syringes full of the solution? (I've already dissolved the 4 mg of K into 400 ml of liquid - 4 ml vodka and 396 ml water)  that seems cumbersome...doesn't it?  And if I did it all at once, counting 39 syringes would take a while!!!  Am I missing something?  As SG has told me...I'm almost there.... 

[[bu...]]

And here's another question...getting ready with all my stuff!

When we go to measure, say, .13 mg/13ml...how do we best do that?  Count 13 syringes full of the solution? (I've already dissolved the 4 mg of K into 400 ml of liquid - 4 ml vodka and 396 ml water)  that seems cumbersome...doesn't it?  And if I did it all at once, counting 39 syringes would take a while!!!  Am I missing something?  As SG has told me...I'm almost there.... 

  Use a 10ml syringe.  1 full (10ml) pull + 1 3ml pull.

[[my...]]

That's what my husband suggested over dinner...need to order them from Amazon as I only have the 1 ml ones.  But, interestingly, a local compounding pharmacist has been giving me stuff, even when I go in offering to pay. He gave me the first 60 ml bottle while today he found a new (but his last) 400 ml bottle for me to use.  So after mixing up the 10 day, 400 ml batch, per SG, I remembered the smaller bottle, poured in a smidge less than the 40 ml marker and am good to go for tomorrow and each day until I receive the other syringes.  If that is totally wrong..then I'll wait for the other syringes but I'd like to begin the changeover tomorrow morning - holding at this dose for a week to 10 days before beginning the L/MT.  At that point, I'll be back --  -- for help to figure out how to actually TAPER the LT...but that's enough for now.  Really appreciate all the help. 

 

Also interesting....the pharmacist said he didn't know of anyone who had successfully tapered off of Klonopin..especially a MT....so he's happy to help out with the "experiment".

 

I'm going to get this!! 

[[sw...]]

So you're saying that if you have 10 ml of PG and 7.8 mg of K, then it dissolves fine, but if you add water, then it un-dissolves? I'm confused as to why that would happen.

 

My cousin is a pharmacist. I'll ask her about it to see what she says.

 

Either way, My Mana can avoid any issues by using all PG instead of water, right? 

 

I just made my first batch using PG and water and it's definitely sinking to the bottom. So bummed. If I shake it up good is there any hope of getting the right dose? I was really looking forward to titrating. I need to get my amounts exact. Damn.

[[sw...]]

So you're saying that if you have 10 ml of PG and 7.8 mg of K, then it dissolves fine, but if you add water, then it un-dissolves? I'm confused as to why that would happen.

 

My cousin is a pharmacist. I'll ask her about it to see what she says.

 

Either way, My Mana can avoid any issues by using all PG instead of water, right? 

 

Yes, it will un-dissolve.  It's like a movie theater with only so many seats.  If you ask the liquid to hold more than its capacity it can't do it - eventually there's nowhere left to sit.  I think MM could avoid this issue with 60ml of a 50/50 mix...30ml PG/30ml water.  If she then dosed 3ml a day she would be ingesting only 1.5ml PG a day.  Not bad at all.  I still would not advise the high concentration, but that is me.  You can look all this stuff up.  It's here on BB.  Maybe that thread should be a sticky in the titration section for easy access.

 

I just made a batch using PG and water and it didn't dissolve. If I shake it up do I have any hopes of getting the right dose. I've been trying to stabilize but eyeballing measurements is impossible. I don't wanna use alcohol. Should I use milk next time? So bummed.

[[my...]]

I think everyone else has gone to bed but did you try dissolving the pills first in the PG?  Then waiting a while, then adding the water?  At first my pills didn't dissolve either but when I went back in the kitchen to look a bit later, they had.  It takes a while.  I'd try the PG first...leave the pills for a half hour or so, covered, then go back and add water. Shake a few times.  You should be good to go.

 

Hope this works for you.  BTW, the amount of alcohol that I used was TEENY.  4 ml for 4 mg of K for a ten day supply.  Do you know how little 4 ml is??  At any rate, it worked (I used vodka as we had it in the freezer for guests - we don't drink it.  Reminds me of high school....  )

[[sw...]]

I think everyone else has gone to bed but did you try dissolving the pills first in the PG?  Then waiting a while, then adding the water?  At first my pills didn't dissolve either but when I went back in the kitchen to look a bit later, they had.  It takes a while.  I'd try the PG first...leave the pills for a half hour or so, covered, then go back and add water. Shake a few times.  You should be good to go.

 

Hope this works for you.  BTW, the amount of alcohol that I used was TEENY.  4 ml for 4 mg of K for a ten day supply.  Do you know how little 4 ml is??  At any rate, it worked (I used vodka as we had it in the freezer for guests - we don't drink it.  Reminds me of high school....  )

 

HAHA! Thanks for the tip. Yeah, I even added an extra 2ml and shook it a bit before adding water but don't think it was a half hour. I don't think I wanna risk it. Just bummed I burned so many pills and was excited fucking get started. I think the MT will help with my issues I've been having. Do you have to worry shit solibility if you use V instead of PG? And I read to make 20 day batches but saw somewhere else that it goes bad after 10-14 days...?

[[...]]

And here's another question...getting ready with all my stuff!

 

When we go to measure, say, .13 mg/13ml...how do we best do that?  Count 13 syringes full of the solution? (I've already dissolved the 4 mg of K into 400 ml of liquid - 4 ml vodka and 396 ml water)  that seems cumbersome...doesn't it?  And if I did it all at once, counting 39 syringes would take a while!!!  Am I missing something?  As SG has told me...I'm almost there.... 

 

If it is 80 proof, I'd change this to 13ml vodka and 387ml water since 1ml will only dissolve .6mg K.  This is why I favor PG these days: it's more straightforward.  The amount of alcohol depends on the proof.

[[Cr...]]

Hi Crash-another question...I saw you dosed 3x a day...so you started at 1ml 3x a day...right? And you reduced by .01 ml a day...right...so which dose did you reduce? Or did you do the .01 reduction on all three doses? Sorry-I can't do math worth a crap anymore and I have to read something 20 times before my dumb monkey brain can wrap itself around it. I wanted to be younger, but not 3 again :-(

 

I reduced all three doses equally each day. 

[[Cr...]]

And here's another question...getting ready with all my stuff!

 

When we go to measure, say, .13 mg/13ml...how do we best do that?  Count 13 syringes full of the solution? (I've already dissolved the 4 mg of K into 400 ml of liquid - 4 ml vodka and 396 ml water)  that seems cumbersome...doesn't it?  And if I did it all at once, counting 39 syringes would take a while!!!  Am I missing something?  As SG has told me...I'm almost there.... 

 

This is a different method from mine, so I'd recommend starting a new thread to get advice on it. 

[[Cr...]]

So you're saying that if you have 10 ml of PG and 7.8 mg of K, then it dissolves fine, but if you add water, then it un-dissolves? I'm confused as to why that would happen.

 

My cousin is a pharmacist. I'll ask her about it to see what she says.

 

Either way, My Mana can avoid any issues by using all PG instead of water, right? 

 

 

Yes, it will un-dissolve.  It's like a movie theater with only so many seats.  If you ask the liquid to hold more than its capacity it can't do it - eventually there's nowhere left to sit.  I think MM could avoid this issue with 60ml of a 50/50 mix...30ml PG/30ml water.  If she then dosed 3ml a day she would be ingesting only 1.5ml PG a day.  Not bad at all.  I still would not advise the high concentration, but that is me.  You can look all this stuff up.  It's here on BB.  Maybe that thread should be a sticky in the titration section for easy access.

 

I just made a batch using PG and water and it didn't dissolve. If I shake it up do I have any hopes of getting the right dose. I've been trying to stabilize but eyeballing measurements is impossible. I don't wanna use alcohol. Should I use milk next time? So bummed.

 

What you see at the bottom is binders and fillers. Most of the pill is that stuff. 

[[Cr...]]

I think everyone else has gone to bed but did you try dissolving the pills first in the PG?  Then waiting a while, then adding the water?  At first my pills didn't dissolve either but when I went back in the kitchen to look a bit later, they had.  It takes a while.  I'd try the PG first...leave the pills for a half hour or so, covered, then go back and add water. Shake a few times.  You should be good to go.

 

Hope this works for you.  BTW, the amount of alcohol that I used was TEENY.  4 ml for 4 mg of K for a ten day supply.  Do you know how little 4 ml is??  At any rate, it worked (I used vodka as we had it in the freezer for guests - we don't drink it.  Reminds me of high school....  )

 

HAHA! Thanks for the tip. Yeah, I even added an extra 2ml and shook it a bit before adding water but don't think it was a half hour. I don't think I wanna risk it. Just bummed I burned so many pills and was excited fucking get started. I think the MT will help with my issues I've been having. Do you have to worry shit solibility if you use V instead of PG? And I read to make 20 day batches but saw somewhere else that it goes bad after 10-14 days...?

 

It does not go bad after 14 days. Chlorinated water has an indefinite shelf life and vodka lasts even longer. 

[[bu...]]

 

 

I just made a batch using PG and water and it didn't dissolve. If I shake it up do I have any hopes of getting the right dose. I've been trying to stabilize but eyeballing measurements is impossible. I don't wanna use alcohol. Should I use milk next time? So bummed.

  The benzo did dissolve, but many of the insoluble binders, fillers, colorants, etc didn't.

 

Your .25mg tablet probably weighs 150mg, so less than 2/10ths of percent is actually benzo.  The benzo will definitely dissolve.  Don't worry about the insoluble excipient ingredients that remain.

[[sw...]]

 

 

I just made a batch using PG and water and it didn't dissolve. If I shake it up do I have any hopes of getting the right dose. I've been trying to stabilize but eyeballing measurements is impossible. I don't wanna use alcohol. Should I use milk next time? So bummed.

  The benzo did dissolve, but many of the insoluble binders, fillers, colorants, etc didn't.

 

Your .25mg tablet probably weighs 150mg, so less than 2/10ths of percent is actually benzo.  The benzo will definitely dissolve.  Don't worry about the insoluble excipient ingredients that remain.

 

So I should ignore the solibility comment of the PG/water ratio? I should be good to go? I crushed 23 .5 pills and put in 12ml of PG...

[[my...]]

Uh-Oh.....now I don't know what to do!  I already mixed the vodka, K and water and took my first dose this a.m.  Now what?  I don't want to start another thread....I thought we were all on the same page!  Builder? Didn't you approve of this?

 

Crash, doesn't what I did jive with your LT? 4 mg K dissolved in 4 ml vodka then add 396 ml water?  And take out .39mg/ml a day for the first week of the cross to liquid? I Thought PG and vodka were interchangeable.  Yes, it is 80 proof...isn't most vodka 80 proof??

 

Help!!

 

 

[[Cr...]]

Uh-Oh.....now I don't know what to do!  I already mixed the vodka, K and water and took my first dose this a.m.  Now what?  I don't want to start another thread....I thought we were all on the same page!  Builder? Didn't you approve of this?

 

Crash, doesn't what I did jive with your LT? 4 mg K dissolved in 4 ml vodka then add 396 ml water?  And take out .39mg/ml a day for the first week of the cross to liquid? I Thought PG and vodka were interchangeable.  Yes, it is 80 proof...isn't most vodka 80 proof??

 

Help!!

 

It's different, but it will work. You can trust SG and Builder. 

[[Cr...]]

 

 

I just made a batch using PG and water and it didn't dissolve. If I shake it up do I have any hopes of getting the right dose. I've been trying to stabilize but eyeballing measurements is impossible. I don't wanna use alcohol. Should I use milk next time? So bummed.

  The benzo did dissolve, but many of the insoluble binders, fillers, colorants, etc didn't.

 

Your .25mg tablet probably weighs 150mg, so less than 2/10ths of percent is actually benzo.  The benzo will definitely dissolve.  Don't worry about the insoluble excipient ingredients that remain.

 

So I should ignore the solibility comment of the PG/water ratio? I should be good to go? I crushed 23 .5 pills and put in 12ml of PG...

 

If you're unsure, just increase the PG ratio.

 

Honestly, i used only water and glycerin for the first 60 days or so didn't have any issues. But i was shaking the bottle each time for 30 seconds to mix it. I recommend doing that anyway just to be sure. 

[[dd...]]

Crash-you used glycerin instead of PG?

Also...I am confused....I thought you reduced by 1% a day...if you were dosing 3x a day and reduced each dose equally do you mean you did 1% each...or .03 per dose to reach the .01 per day? Sorry...seems so nit picky to ask :-(

[[Cr...]]

Ok, PG and vodka are solvents. They dissolve the meds into a solution.

 

Glycerin is not a solvent. It does nothing to the meds. I only used it for taste.

 

Before i knew about solvents, i just used meds, water and glycerin. It is not ideal. I was fortunate in that it worked, but it's prob bc i was so OCD about mixing it each time. You'd be better off using PG or vodka. 

[[Al...]]

Ok here goes... I have propylene glycol and am on 3mg V daily in three doses. Should I make a 20 day batch with 60mg V and 60mls of PG and reduce by 0.01mg x 3  (0.01ml x 3 / 1%) daily or do you think that I should water it down 50% and make a 10 day batch? I'm more concerned about the concentration of PG here as I would be ingesting purely PG and Valium here without water.

 

Also do you think that a reduction of 3mgs  in 100 days is too fast?

[[Cr...]]

Hi Alex,

 

You don't have to liquify it all. Perhaps take 2.25 dry and liquify .75. Then you will take .75 dry and .25 liquid 3x per day. Or whatever combo is easiest for you.

 

I think 100 days is reasonable, but you can always slow down if needed.   

 

[[bu...]]

Ok here goes... I have propylene glycol and am on 3mg V daily in three doses. Should I make a 20 day batch with 60mg V and 60mls of PG and reduce by 0.01mg x 3  (0.01ml x 3 / 1%) daily or do you think that I should water it down 50% and make a 10 day batch? I'm more concerned about the concentration of PG here as I would be ingesting purely PG and Valium here without water.

 

Also do you think that a reduction of 3mgs  in 100 days is too fast?

 

 

 

Realistically, it is not really practical to try to measure to .01ml accuracy.  Even though your syringe may be graduated in .01 increments, as a practical matter it will be extremely difficult to consistently measure .01.  Then you have the issue of residual liquid clinging to surfaces of your syringe, and the liquid in the tip.

 

You will find PG is pretty viscous liquid, and dilution makes it much easier to work with,  One of the major advantages of liquid is the abilitity to dilute, and measure much more precise and consistent doses.  If you just dilute 9:1 (.1mg=1ml), it will make the process much easier.

 

3mg/100 days is  almost 15% per 2 weeks at your current dose.  That's pretty agressive, and of course will increase as a percentage as you go forward.  Most folks would that rate too fast.  It definitely would have been too fast for me.  At 3mg, I was cutting .0125mg/day.