My Liquid Daily Micro Taper (updated)

[[Cr...]]

I'm not sure about UK liquids. Perhaps it's a suspension?

 

I find it best to make my own. I never told my doctor anything. Once you tell them you want off, they treat you like an addict. I just took my pills, shook her hand, and then went home and tapered. 

[[my...]]

Crash,

Hi..just curious how you traveled with the liquid suspension.  "I carry it in a brown plastic case, along with a real prescription compound in case I get pulled over or go through TSA."

 

What do you mean by a "real prescription compound"?  I plan to try a LT toward the end of the month. I will be traveling several weeks after that. Maybe I should wait to LT until I return (though I will definitely begin my MT later in April) as I sure don't want all the Clonazepam I am carrying to be confiscated.... I wouldn't be able to get on the plane!  I'd have to go home!!    So, did you mean you took your bottle of pills with you in case you had to switch back to a dry cut MT -  or did you have a prescription for a liquid compound (btw, none of the compounding pharmacies around here do that) - or what??? Also, did you just pack your syringes either in a carry-on or in checked luggage? No problems with those? (I know they are not liquids...but they do look vaguely suspicious  ).

 

I'll be back to ask all of you exactly how I calculate my taper amounts in a couple of weeks.  For right now, I'm just going to get my materials - and my thoughts - together and  organized. 

 

Thanks,

Mana

[[Cr...]]

In a Tupperware, I packed a few syringes, my mix in a 60 ml bottle, and an empty liquid rx bottle. I carried a bottle of dry pills in a separate pocket. All carryon. Never was even stopped, and I traveled all over the world. 

[[my...]]

Thanks, Crash..sounds good.  Just don't quite understand the empty Rx bottle  .  But I am reassured that you carried pills with you.  I would too. 

[[Cr...]]

My pharmacist made me a liquid compound. I didn't use it bc i don't trust them to get it right. However, i carried around the empty bottle in case someone asked for proof. 

[[my...]]

Ok... proof of what? That it was a prescription and not bomb making material? Liquid anthrax?  Also, did you get your doctor to write a Rx for a liquid compound of K? A 20 day supply?  Just wondering if it is really necessary... I will get it organized if it is...just sounds like an added hassle.

 

We are traveling this weekend for a week but won't be starting the LT until we return.  Then traveling again (both by air) in May and July then not until the fall...so not like we are going all the time, but it would only take one confiscation to really screw things up...

 

Thanks!

[[Cr...]]

Ok... proof of what? That it was a prescription and not bomb making material? Liquid anthrax?  Also, did you get your doctor to write a Rx for a liquid compound of K? A 20 day supply?  Just wondering if it is really necessary... I will get it organized if it is...just sounds like an added hassle.

 

We are traveling this weekend for a week but won't be starting the LT until we return.  Then traveling again (both by air) in May and July then not until the fall...so not like we are going all the time, but it would only take one confiscation to really screw things up...

 

Thanks!

 

They are not concerned about bomb material with a 60 ml bottle. The limit is 100 ml. I only took the script just in case they thought it might be heroin or something stupid. Again, i was never stopped or questioned about it. I went through at least 100 TSA inspections and 6 countries with zero issues. I also brought dry pills in case of confiscation.

 

I made a 20-day supply so that i didn't have to measure it out every day.

[[my...]]

Thanks.. All I needed to know.  I'll be back in a couple of weeks to ask you and SG about how to measure out enough of the medication at the dose I'm at, doing a LT that begins at 10% a month and maybe goes up from that depending on how I feel.

 

 

[[Sh...]]

Crash I was tapering from 2mg valium and was doing 0.05mg per night. Mixing it with liquid. So it only took me 20 days to go from 2mg down to 1mg. Symptoms were still pretty rough as I think this was pretty aggressive. Do you know what % I was going at? If I do it again I'm thinking of cutting 0.02mg per night instead. would that help ease symptoms?

[[Cr...]]

If you went from 2mg to 1 mg, then that's a 50% cut in 20 days. Huge cut. Yes, cutting less each day would likely reduce symptoms. 

[[Al...]]

Using this method... If I'm on 3mg diazepam daily and make a 20 day supply that's 60mg which would take 60mls of propylene glycol and no water? Or should I rather concentrate on a single dose as I'm dosing three times daily. I was thinking that reducing the three doses at once would be better and smoother.

 

I know you're talking about percentages but what does a 100 day reduction to 0 seem too optimistic from 3mgs?

[[Cr...]]

Using this method... If I'm on 3mg diazepam daily and make a 20 day supply that's 60mg which would take 60mls of propylene glycol and no water? Or should I rather concentrate on a single dose as I'm dosing three times daily. I was thinking that reducing the three doses at once would be better and smoother.

 

I know you're talking about percentages but what does a 100 day reduction to 0 seem too optimistic from 3mgs?

 

3 mg of V is about equivalent to where i started with K. So yes, you could do a mellow 100-day taper.

 

I always reduced all 3 doses at once to avoid sways. 

 

It's going to end up being more than 60 ml total since the pills take up space. What size pills do you have? 5 mg ones should be fine. 2 mg ones will take up a lot more space. You might have to go to 100 ml bottle.

[[Al...]]

I've got 2mgs and 10mg tablets so could use either. So was thinking using your method I could dissolve 6 10s in 60mls making a 1mg/ml solution but the problem is that it'd all be propylene glycol to make it into a solution wouldn't it?

 

Is that an issue that I'd need to worry about?

[[bu...]]

I've got 2mgs and 10mg tablets so could use either. So was thinking using your method I could dissolve 6 10s in 60mls making a 1mg/ml solution but the problem is that it'd all be propylene glycol to make it into a solution wouldn't it?

 

Is that an issue that I'd need to worry about?

 

 

Once you have made your 1mg=1ml solution, you then dilute it with water to make a more dilute solution.  I always diluted 9:1 (.1mg=1m), but many folks prefer 99:1 (.01mg=1ml.)

[[Cr...]]

I've got 2mgs and 10mg tablets so could use either. So was thinking using your method I could dissolve 6 10s in 60mls making a 1mg/ml solution but the problem is that it'd all be propylene glycol to make it into a solution wouldn't it?

 

Is that an issue that I'd need to worry about?

 

 

Once you have made your 1mg=1ml solution, you then dilute it with water to make a more dilute solution.  I always diluted 9:1 (.1mg=1m), but many folks prefer 99:1 (.01mg=1ml.)

 

I just want to note that Builder uses a different method from the one listed in this thread. If you are using my method, then there's no need to dilute. It does not require that ratio. It is already accurate to .01 mg, which is plenty for your purposes. 

[[Cr...]]

I've got 2mgs and 10mg tablets so could use either. So was thinking using your method I could dissolve 6 10s in 60mls making a 1mg/ml solution but the problem is that it'd all be propylene glycol to make it into a solution wouldn't it?

 

Is that an issue that I'd need to worry about?

 

Not at your dosage of 3 mgs per day. A reduction of .01 ml would be a reduction of .01 mg. You'd be fine. 

[[bu...]]

I've got 2mgs and 10mg tablets so could use either. So was thinking using your method I could dissolve 6 10s in 60mls making a 1mg/ml solution but the problem is that it'd all be propylene glycol to make it into a solution wouldn't it?

 

Is that an issue that I'd need to worry about?

 

 

Once you have made your 1mg=1ml solution, you then dilute it with water to make a more dilute solution.  I always diluted 9:1 (.1mg=1m), but many folks prefer 99:1 (.01mg=1ml.)

 

I just want to note that Builder uses a different method from the one listed in this thread. If you are using my method, then there's no need to dilute. It does not require that ratio. It is already accurate to .01 mg, which is plenty for your purposes. 

 

 

Oops, didn't mean to contradict or add confusion.

 

Alex, if you're doing Crash's procedure, follow his instructions.

[[my...]]

Hey builder!!  I must write fast as I see you are still online but maybe not for long....Or Crash if/when you come back....

 

I posted on the MT thread but SG is likely off for the night and I'm eager to learn how to do this.

 

I was going to use Crash's method -- maybe because it's the only one I found to be easy ...but now that I'm getting ready to try a daily LT..I just don't understand how much drug to crush and put into the bottle.

 

At my current dose of .39 mg of K...what do I do?  I have .5 mg pills.  Do I (assuming the 20 day supply) crush 20x .39 = 7.8 mg of K into the bottle then add 1-2 ml of vodka and fill to the 60 ml mark with water?  Let's say that is correct...then what do I do?  How do I create a daily taper out of that?  I plan to hold a week or two to adjust to a daily LT from the cut/hold (5% every 10 days) I have been doing.  Then taper at the rate of, say 10% a month to start then back up to 15% if that goes well.  (I have all the equipment -- syringes, 60 ml bottle, etc)

 

I'm clueless how to 1) measure out enough for the day and 2) divide my doses by three as I dose 3 X a day.

 

Will wait to hear! I wrote to SG to explain it to me like I was a five year old but considering how smart five year olds are these days...maybe just to someone who scored MUCH better on her verbal than her math SAT's. 

 

Thanks,

Mana 

 

[[Cr...]]

At my current dose of .39 mg of K...what do I do? 

 

If you're taking .39 mg per day and you want to split it across 3 doses, then here you go:

 

To liquefy the .39 mg per day dose:

 

Put 7.8 mg of meds in a bottle. Add 10 ml of PG or vodka to dissolve. Add water to make it 60 ml total.

 

This will give you a 20-day supply.

 

To start, take 1 ml doses with a 1 ml syringe (see the link in my signature for where to purchase these). That's .39 mg per day of meds, or .13 mg per dose. Same as what you take now.

 

Reduce .01 ml (same as 1%) on your syringe every day. Nice slow taper at .0039 mg reduction per day. Slow down or speed up as needed. Slowing down can be done by reducing it every other day, etc. Speeding up can be done by taking out more than 1% each day.

 

Note: You don't need to think in terms of mg or ml after making the solution. Just think about how much % you are dropping each day on the syringe.

 

Note2: Make sure you have enough meds in case you need to redo it or go back to dry pills for some reason.

 

I'd hold for one week with the liquid before tapering. Then start the daily microtaper. 

[[...]]

At my current dose of .39 mg of K...what do I do? 

 

If you're taking .39 mg per day and you want to split it across 3 doses, then here you go:

 

To liquefy the .39 mg per day dose:

 

Put 7.8 mg of meds in a bottle. Add 10 ml of PG or vodka to dissolve. Add water to make it 60 ml total.

 

This will give you a 20-day supply.

 

To start, take 1 ml doses with a 1 ml syringe (see the link in my signature for where to purchase these). That's .39 mg per day of meds, or .13 mg per dose. Same as what you take now.

 

Reduce .01 ml (same as 1%) on your syringe every day. Nice slow taper at .0039 mg reduction per day. Slow down or speed up as needed. Slowing down can be done by reducing it every other day, etc. Speeding up can be done by taking out more than 1% each day.

 

Note: You don't need to think in terms of mg or ml after making the solution. Just think about how much % you are dropping each day on the syringe.

 

Note2: Make sure you have enough meds in case you need to redo it or go back to dry pills for some reason.

 

I'd hold for one week with the liquid before tapering. Then start the daily microtaper. 

 

Crash,

 

I'm not trying to be critical, but I need to point out something important.  You just told her to put 7.8mg K into 60ml of 17% PG/water.  That's a problem since it will only dissolve 3mg K, leaving 4.8mg on the bottom of the bottle (it will come back out of the PG).  You method stresses simplicity and that's great, but you also need to watch out for how much benzo the liquid can dissolve and make sure you use enough.  Again, I'm not trying to be critical, just wanted to save Mana from problems.  Thanks for all you do here.  You help a lot of people.

[[my...]]

Wow..I am deeply appreciative of your trying to help me.  I feel like I'd like to wait to see what you both come up with.  Does PG work the same as vodka?  As I plan on using vodka (we have it in the freezer for the couple of friends we know who like it.  We don't.

 

Also, a technicality:  I don't see on the syringe how one calculates percentages.  Also...how does one weigh out 7.8 mg - assuming we do the 20 day supply version - ?  I have been converting grams to mg for my c/h taper. That's easy with SG's formula of multiplying grams by 2.907 to equal mg's. 

 

I don't mind mixing up a batch on a daily basis if that is what's required to be safe.  I'm at a higher dose than .125 and figure at least a 200 day taper from here.  Really I would like to understand both the daily and the 20 day options.  Again, I so appreciate your trying to explain.

 

Mana. 

 

 

[[Cr...]]

At my current dose of .39 mg of K...what do I do? 

 

If you're taking .39 mg per day and you want to split it across 3 doses, then here you go:

 

To liquefy the .39 mg per day dose:

 

Put 7.8 mg of meds in a bottle. Add 10 ml of PG or vodka to dissolve. Add water to make it 60 ml total.

 

This will give you a 20-day supply.

 

To start, take 1 ml doses with a 1 ml syringe (see the link in my signature for where to purchase these). That's .39 mg per day of meds, or .13 mg per dose. Same as what you take now.

 

Reduce .01 ml (same as 1%) on your syringe every day. Nice slow taper at .0039 mg reduction per day. Slow down or speed up as needed. Slowing down can be done by reducing it every other day, etc. Speeding up can be done by taking out more than 1% each day.

 

Note: You don't need to think in terms of mg or ml after making the solution. Just think about how much % you are dropping each day on the syringe.

 

Note2: Make sure you have enough meds in case you need to redo it or go back to dry pills for some reason.

 

I'd hold for one week with the liquid before tapering. Then start the daily microtaper. 

 

Crash,

 

I'm not trying to be critical, but I need to point out something important.  You just told her to put 7.8mg K into 60ml of 17% PG/water.  That's a problem since it will only dissolve 3mg K, leaving 4.8mg on the bottom of the bottle (it will come back out of the PG).  You method stresses simplicity and that's great, but you also need to watch out for how much benzo the liquid can dissolve and make sure you use enough.  Again, I'm not trying to be critical, just wanted to save Mana from problems.  Thanks for all you do here.  You help a lot of people.

 

Thanks for helping!

 

My understanding is that 1 mg will dissolve in 1 ml of PG. I said to mix 7.8 mg with 10 ml.  That should be more than enough?

[[Cr...]]

Wow..I am deeply appreciative of your trying to help me.  I feel like I'd like to wait to see what you both come up with.  Does PG work the same as vodka?  As I plan on using vodka (we have it in the freezer for the couple of friends we know who like it.  We don't.

Yes, it works the same.

 

Also, a technicality:  I don't see on the syringe how one calculates percentages. 

The syringes i used have 100 marks on them. 1 mark = 1%.

 

Also...how does one weigh out 7.8 mg - assuming we do the 20 day supply version - ?  I have been converting grams to mg for my c/h taper. That's easy with SG's formula of multiplying grams by 2.907 to equal mg's. 

 

I don't mind mixing up a batch on a daily basis if that is what's required to be safe.  I'm at a higher dose than .125 and figure at least a 200 day taper from here.  Really I would like to understand both the daily and the 20 day options.  Again, I so appreciate your trying to explain.

 

Mana. 

 

If you find the other method easier, then by all means, use it instead! 

[[...]]

 

Crash,

 

I'm not trying to be critical, but I need to point out something important.  You just told her to put 7.8mg K into 60ml of 17% PG/water.  That's a problem since it will only dissolve 3mg K, leaving 4.8mg on the bottom of the bottle (it will come back out of the PG).  You method stresses simplicity and that's great, but you also need to watch out for how much benzo the liquid can dissolve and make sure you use enough.  Again, I'm not trying to be critical, just wanted to save Mana from problems.  Thanks for all you do here.  You help a lot of people.

 

Thanks for helping!

 

My understanding is that 1 mg will dissolve in 1 ml of PG. I said to mix 7.8 mg with 10 ml.  That should be more than enough?

 

1ml of PG will dissolve almost 6mg K.  That part is fine.  You actually used enough to dissolve ~60mg.  No problem.  But when you add water you are now working with a mixture of PG and water that is mostly water, and the solubility of that (17% PG/water) is quite low.  1ml will only dissolve ~.05mg.  There is no problem as long as you use enough water to keep all the K dissolved.  The problem is 60ml is not nearly enough.  Or you could make 60ml work by using a lot more PG.  The final liquid has to have the ability to keep all the benzo dissolved or else some of it will end up on the bottom.  All the solubility data is recorded on the solubility thread and can be looked up.

[[Cr...]]

So you're saying that if you have 10 ml of PG and 7.8 mg of K, then it dissolves fine, but if you add water, then it un-dissolves? I'm confused as to why that would happen.

 

My cousin is a pharmacist. I'll ask her about it to see what she says.

 

Either way, My Mana can avoid any issues by using all PG instead of water, right?