Insomniac support group

[[Fi...]]

Hi,

 

I'm in the process of tapering Clonzapam and my sleep is starting to deteriorate more.  I know there rebound insomia from tapeing but wanted to ask specifically about adding in zinc for sleep. 

 

I currently use a tiny amount of melatonin, and will skip using it since nights, along with magnesium gylcinate nightly.  It's the dropping of part I have trouble with.  Even though my nightly dose of Clonzapam is larger than the daytime dose, it still takes me about 2 hours to fall asleep if I'm going to. 

 

I saw some posts about zinc and wanted to follow up.

About Zinc.  I read taking certain B vitamins with zinc helps convert glutamate to gaba and therefore helps with sleep.

You must be very careful with the B vitamins.  Some work the opposite effect.

Here is exactly what I do and it does reduce insomnia (unless I am in a wave of anxiety):

 

(1) Before bed, take Pyridoxal 5’-Phosphate (do not take regular B6, it doesn't work with MTHFR).  Take very little, like 1/4 of the tablet, just let melt in your mouth.

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B0006O2IZU/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Note, if you take too much, you might get muscle spasms.

 

(2) Before bed, take some zinc to help convert glutamate to gaba.  I take perhaps 1/2 of the tablet of:

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00020ICLC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

(3) A variety of other things may be of some help:  Magnesium glycinate and maybe ¼ of an advil or aspirin and some L’theanine and chamomile tea.

For emergencies only, Unisom or Benadryl really works as long as I only use it for a few days.

 

Thank you Bob.  I will try the zinc, starting at a low level.  I'm going to stay back from the b vitamins at this time until I'm off. 

 

I wish I could take unisom or Benadryl but I'm one of those people who has the opposite reaction, they make me hyper. 

 

Did you wait till you were off to start drinking chamomile tea?

I used the Chamomile tea on and off with ok results.  I can say, chamomile extract (available on Amazon) with a little L'theanine does help me greatly.  I take them both about 30 minutes before bed and start reading until I "feel the sleep coming on".  I do not use this all the time because a few people tell me chamomile might impact our gaba receptors.  There is no clear answer on this so I use chamomile extract (and the tea) sparingly.

 

Ok thanks. 

[[te...]]

Need some advice , going thru a hard time ,

cant fall asleep , if i do its for 2 hrs.

the lower i go the harder it gets.

any information that might help

 

 

[[...]]

Need some advice , going thru a hard time ,

cant fall asleep , if i do its for 2 hrs.

the lower i go the harder it gets.

any information that might help

I am sorry you are suffering tech21.

 

I often thought, if I can get enough sleep, I can handle the remaining daytime symptoms.

 

You are still tapering so the ideas I listed in the post above may only have a limited benefit.

 

However, when I was tapering, I recall taking "Chamomile Extract" with L'theanine (like 1/2 of each capsule from amazon) before bed and then start reading a book, I would "feel like sleeping" in about 30 minutes.  It really helped along with Magnesium Glycinate and a bit of aspirin or advil.

 

I stopped this because some people worry that Chamomile affects gaba receptors however, my thinking is, perhaps use the Chamomile until benzo taper is done and then taper off the Chamomile (assuming it is even a problem - no one really knows for sure).

 

I took 1/2 of each of these capsules at bed:

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00014GAF4/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B0036H0CV6/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

 

 

[[te...]]

bob 7 ,

thank you for your information

lisa

[[NJ...]]

Need some advice , going thru a hard time ,

cant fall asleep , if i do its for 2 hrs.

the lower i go the harder it gets.

any information that might help

 

I have been having a hard time sleeping, believe it is hormonal. I did not sleep Sunday or Monday nights at all. Last night, I know partly due to total exhaustion, I drank some hops tea, this seems to help me often with sleep. It's so hard when you can't sleep. As Bob said, it is easier to get through the day if you have slept.

[[He...]]

NJ

Does the medical

marijuana help anymore

for your sleep ? Ty

I don’t use it

I don’t have a card

Not sure if it would add

problems for me

Thank you

[[NJ...]]

No, the medical marijuana does not seem to help unless I use an edible and I can't figure out the right dosing so that I sleep but am not high for 18 hours.

 

I seem to have completely stopped sleeping this week. I have slept one night this week since waking up Sunday. I used hops tea two nights in a row , worked the first night but not last night.

 

I am completely at a loss as to what is going on. I haven't been sleeping well since the holidays but this is a new kind of hell. I am trying to figure out what is different. I have been crossing over from brand name to generic klonopin but the problems started before then (but have worsened). I know at 51 my hormones are all over the place. I am not tapering; in a long hold since September 2018 due to my son developing a serious health condition. He is still not stable.

 

But I could always sleep, a few months ago I was sleeping great every night. I am really afraid. I can't go on like this sleeping only one or two nights a week.I am thinking of calling my psychiatrist for help but I don't want to add another drug. Wondering if crossing to Valium which I believe is more sedating might help--it would at least be a different benzo that I am not tolerant to. I don't know if he would be open to that and I would need to manage the cross myself with the stockpile of K i do have.

 

My mental health is shot, and I am constantly nauseous and occasionally dry heaving from the lack of sleep.

[[te...]]

Lack of sleep is so hard it scares me too .

I feel like it comes in cycles  a few good weeks then a few bad ones .

Very difficult to figure out .

Lisa

[[...]]

Now that I am no longer tapering and I am 16 months off benzos, I decided to try melatonin again.  I think I also learned, too much melatonin harms sleep.  I think I also learned slow release melatonin is best to keep the levels stable throughout the night.

HENCE,

For two night now, I have used 0.5 mg slow release taken 1 hour before bed.

It is helping me sleep better.

I hope it lasts.

I think in the past it failed because I took too much or perhaps my symptoms were so bad back then nothing worked very well.

 

[[Fi...]]

I take a small amount of melatonin while tapering. 

 

I use between 0.25 and 0.50.  It helps a little and I sometimes I skip a couple of days just to give myself a break.

[[NJ...]]

I just listened to a podcast about melatonin. The researcher said it is generally safe to take, up to 3 mg, a half hour before bed. She suggests not using the delayed release. I can't take that much as it makes me nauseous. I take .333 mg but I don't know why I bother if I am not sleeping at all. I am going to be better about using my orange blocking blue light glasses and see if that helps. My son has been using more fashionable ones I bought on amazon and his sleep is much improved despite being on a rather high dose of steroids for almost a year.

[[...]]

I just listened to a podcast about melatonin. The researcher said it is generally safe to take, up to 3 mg, a half hour before bed. She suggests not using the delayed release. I can't take that much as it makes me nauseous. I take .333 mg but I don't know why I bother if I am not sleeping at all. I am going to be better about using my orange blocking blue light glasses and see if that helps. My son has been using more fashionable ones I bought on amazon and his sleep is much improved despite being on a rather high dose of steroids for almost a year.

I hate to suggest more medication but I can tell you this. When my kids were having some significant issues during my taper I did take an anti-depressant for a while which I think helped me continue my taper.    When my family was more stable I was able to get off the anti-depressant with some withdraw symptoms but they only lasted like 2 weeks.Having sick kids while tapering is very difficult in terms of giving you anxiety.

[[NJ...]]

Thanks Bob. I actually put my taper on hold 18 months ago as I was nearly non functional and I had to be functional to deal with my son's issues. Here we are 18 months later and I am still averaging at least five hours of week of medical-type stuff for him, plus several hours a week for my mom (I seriously would like to strangle my sisters who are not helping me with this--she has Parkinson's and is in a nearby nursing home). Son has Crohn's disease, long term illness not medically managed well, dependent on steroids, he is 17 and the clock is ticking for him to go to college (although he is just a junior in HS). I can manage okay when I can sleep but going multiple nights in a row with no sleep is overwhelming. I already take an atypical antidepressant remeron to help with sleep/nausea. Obviously nothing is working now. I realize I may need different meds but I am hesitant to taper anything right now I am so on edge and really don't want to add without subtracting--I have gained so much weight on these drugs. I will start seeing a therapist again next week ... I took a two month break as I thought I was doing well, obviously not.

 

Going to commit to wearing the stupid huge orange blue light glasses every night after dinner and just bought one of those lights to simulate sunlight for the mornings. I work from home so can use when I begin my day. I realize I need to go outside more but it is too cold for me ... next week milder days are on the horizon.

[[...]]

Thanks Bob. I actually put my taper on hold 18 months ago as I was nearly non functional and I had to be functional to deal with my son's issues. Here we are 18 months later and I am still averaging at least five hours of week of medical-type stuff for him, plus several hours a week for my mom (I seriously would like to strangle my sisters who are not helping me with this--she has Parkinson's and is in a nearby nursing home). Son has Crohn's disease, long term illness not medically managed well, dependent on steroids, he is 17 and the clock is ticking for him to go to college (although he is just a junior in HS). I can manage okay when I can sleep but going multiple nights in a row with no sleep is overwhelming. I already take an atypical antidepressant remeron to help with sleep/nausea. Obviously nothing is working now. I realize I may need different meds but I am hesitant to taper anything right now I am so on edge and really don't want to add without subtracting--I have gained so much weight on these drugs. I will start seeing a therapist again next week ... I took a two month break as I thought I was doing well, obviously not.

 

Going to commit to wearing the stupid huge orange blue light glasses every night after dinner and just bought one of those lights to simulate sunlight for the mornings. I work from home so can use when I begin my day. I realize I need to go outside more but it is too cold for me ... next week milder days are on the horizon.

My brother-in-law has Crohn's.  He was sick when I first met him about 30 years ago.  He is about 57 years old now and has a wonderful wife and kids.  He always seems happy when I see him.  I hope your son will find such happiness too.

You do have it very difficult - sorry your sisters cannot understand the depths of benzo problems and help more.

 

[[NJ...]]

Bob, thank you for your kind words. I think we are close to finding the right mix of meds that will help him (waiting on insurance approval), although he still needs to wean off a hefty dose of steroids he has been on for close to a year ... he has tapered three times but had to reinstate as his health was so poor. The tapers were too rapid according to an endocrinologist we saw so his adrenals did not kick back in. I am sure this sounds very familiar to all of us here.

 

I did sleep well last night. I made sure to wear my blue-light blocking glasses after 6:30, took a little more klonopin than I normally do (I had an early morning meeting today and HAD to be functional), and used a little more medical marijuana than normal. I have not used that much in recent months but think I need to go back to doing so and using more. I ordered myself a light box to use in the mornings ... I will try that over the weekend. I do not get outside enough, too cold and gray here. I will report back if it helps.

 

 

[[bl...]]

Hello group:

 

Noticed some are using the supplement--L-Theanine.

 

Can you tell me about your dosage and time of use. And if you take it along with your benzo PM dose before bed.

 

Does the substance (surprisingly a derivative of green/black tea)--help fall asleep and/or stay asleep.

 

Did a bit of research and appears to be safe and recommended for tapering, promoting relaxation.

 

Cheers

 

PS--Holy Basil has been studied extensively. Broad range of benefits. Anyone using.

[[va...]]

Hi NJStrength. I really hate to see you suffer so much. I wonder if you've ever tried hydroxicine. It's a antihistaminic. When I was really in very severe withdrawal it did nothing, but as I started to get a bit better (and I'm really ill with bwd but nothing like before), the hydroxicine started making me sleepy. Now I don't take it anymore because the trazodone seems to put me to sleep, but when I'm really stressed I add hydroxicine and it does help. It's not a psych drug. I didn't need to taper it and I was taking it daily in summer, like FIVE pills daily to no avail. Now, however, only one of them would make me a bit drowsier, and in November when my daughter had a school crisis I'd take two or three and it helped me calm down a bit. It makes me eat like a pig but who cares. I'd try and see if you get any sleep on that.

 

As you have so much on your plate with your son, I wonder if one can legally make your sisters do their part in caring for your mother. I don't see how you are obliged to take care of her and they are not. And if you just can't go, or you absolutely can only go one day instead of let's say three days, what's going to happen? Wouldn't they have to step in then?

[[NJ...]]

Hi NJStrength. I really hate to see you suffer so much. I wonder if you've ever tried hydroxicine. It's a antihistaminic. When I was really in very severe withdrawal it did nothing, but as I started to get a bit better (and I'm really ill with bwd but nothing like before), the hydroxicine started making me sleepy. Now I don't take it anymore because the trazodone seems to put me to sleep, but when I'm really stressed I add hydroxicine and it does help. It's not a psych drug. I didn't need to taper it and I was taking it daily in summer, like FIVE pills daily to no avail. Now, however, only one of them would make me a bit drowsier, and in November when my daughter had a school crisis I'd take two or three and it helped me calm down a bit. It makes me eat like a pig but who cares. I'd try and see if you get any sleep on that.

 

As you have so much on your plate with your son, I wonder if one can legally make your sisters do their part in caring for your mother. I don't see how you are obliged to take care of her and they are not. And if you just can't go, or you absolutely can only go one day instead of let's say three days, what's going to happen? Wouldn't they have to step in then?

 

VNM, thanks for the suggestion of that medication. I don't know if I can take with remeron. I do know I am going to need something if the sleeplessness (which I really do think is hormones!) continues.

 

My sisters ... I don't know what to say. I stepped back or tried to last spring when my son was so sick he could not drink water. They did not step up. In fact my one sister came to my house with boxes containing all of my mom's financial info, and told me I needed to take care of all this paperwork for the nursing home (which took me days to do) because she "had too much on her plate." I wanted to tell her to get the f*ck out of my house, and in retrospect, I probably should have. She continues to say I have no idea of what her life is like and that she has too much on her plate. My other sister tries but she couldn't even handle the responsibility of going to the bank once a month to get my mom's bank statement. So now I just handle everything. It is a shame because I used to feel close to both of them and am now just resentful. My dad got sick 10 years ago (since deceased) and I have been at this a long time, being the "first call" for everything when anything is needed. I am just tired. I am actually returning to therapy next week to talk more about this. The irony is that I am not even that close to my mom. My parents allowed me to be put on a benzo at 8 years old for anxiety and I am really struggling with that decision and their lack of good parenting, and the fact that now at 51 I cannot get off this medication.  Due to the fact that my car broke down en route to see my mom this week, I actually have not been to see her in two weeks ... and that was a good thing.

 

One thing I do know (and I am sure this is true of you, too--I think you also grew up in a dysfunctional household)--I am a good mom to my kids, and at the end of the day that is truly the most important thing in my life.

 

I hope everyone finds a way to sleep, as it is just so important to our mental health.

[[va...]]

Hi NJStrength. I really hate to see you suffer so much. I wonder if you've ever tried hydroxicine. It's a antihistaminic. When I was really in very severe withdrawal it did nothing, but as I started to get a bit better (and I'm really ill with bwd but nothing like before), the hydroxicine started making me sleepy. Now I don't take it anymore because the trazodone seems to put me to sleep, but when I'm really stressed I add hydroxicine and it does help. It's not a psych drug. I didn't need to taper it and I was taking it daily in summer, like FIVE pills daily to no avail. Now, however, only one of them would make me a bit drowsier, and in November when my daughter had a school crisis I'd take two or three and it helped me calm down a bit. It makes me eat like a pig but who cares. I'd try and see if you get any sleep on that.

 

As you have so much on your plate with your son, I wonder if one can legally make your sisters do their part in caring for your mother. I don't see how you are obliged to take care of her and they are not. And if you just can't go, or you absolutely can only go one day instead of let's say three days, what's going to happen? Wouldn't they have to step in then?

 

VNM, thanks for the suggestion of that medication. I don't know if I can take with remeron. I do know I am going to need something if the sleeplessness (which I really do think is hormones!) continues.

 

My sisters ... I don't know what to say. I stepped back or tried to last spring when my son was so sick he could not drink water. They did not step up. In fact my one sister came to my house with boxes containing all of my mom's financial info, and told me I needed to take care of all this paperwork for the nursing home (which took me days to do) because she "had too much on her plate." I wanted to tell her to get the f*ck out of my house, and in retrospect, I probably should have. She continues to say I have no idea of what her life is like and that she has too much on her plate. My other sister tries but she couldn't even handle the responsibility of going to the bank once a month to get my mom's bank statement. So now I just handle everything. It is a shame because I used to feel close to both of them and am now just resentful. My dad got sick 10 years ago (since deceased) and I have been at this a long time, being the "first call" for everything when anything is needed. I am just tired. I am actually returning to therapy next week to talk more about this. The irony is that I am not even that close to my mom. My parents allowed me to be put on a benzo at 8 years old for anxiety and I am really struggling with that decision and their lack of good parenting, and the fact that now at 51 I cannot get off this medication.  Due to the fact that my car broke down en route to see my mom this week, I actually have not been to see her in two weeks ... and that was a good thing.

 

One thing I do know (and I am sure this is true of you, too--I think you also grew up in a dysfunctional household)--I am a good mom to my kids, and at the end of the day that is truly the most important thing in my life.

 

I hope everyone finds a way to sleep, as it is just so important to our mental health.

 

NJStrength, as I know your household was also no picnic, my heart breaks as I read you. I'll PM you. No need to answer.

[[...]]

Hello group:

 

Noticed some are using the supplement--L-Theanine.

 

Can you tell me about your dosage and time of use. And if you take it along with your benzo PM dose before bed.

 

Does the substance (surprisingly a derivative of green/black tea)--help fall asleep and/or stay asleep.

 

Did a bit of research and appears to be safe and recommended for tapering, promoting relaxation.

 

Cheers

 

PS--Holy Basil has been studied extensively. Broad range of benefits. Anyone using.

I take 50mg of L'Theanine about 30 minutes before bed.  I think it helps reduce random thoughts (quiets the mind).  I take perhaps 25mg again each time I wake up at night (like 2 or 3 more times).  I use this brand https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B0036H0CV6/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[[bl...]]

Hello group:

 

Noticed some are using the supplement--L-Theanine.

 

Can you tell me about your dosage and time of use. And if you take it along with your benzo PM dose before bed.

 

Does the substance (surprisingly a derivative of green/black tea)--help fall asleep and/or stay asleep.

 

Did a bit of research and appears to be safe and recommended for tapering, promoting relaxation.

 

Cheers

 

PS--Holy Basil has been studied extensively. Broad range of benefits. Anyone using.

I take 50mg of L'Theanine about 30 minutes before bed.  I think it helps reduce random thoughts (quiets the mind).  I take perhaps 25mg again each time I wake up at night (like 2 or 3 more times).  I use this brand https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B0036H0CV6/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

Thanks Bob

 

Ordered a similar brand of Suntheanine. Assume you open capsule and use 1/2.

 

Indeed, quieting the mind is a valuable effect. And, using when waking up during the night is a good idea.

 

Cheers

[[...]]

Hello group:

 

Noticed some are using the supplement--L-Theanine.

 

Can you tell me about your dosage and time of use. And if you take it along with your benzo PM dose before bed.

 

Does the substance (surprisingly a derivative of green/black tea)--help fall asleep and/or stay asleep.

 

Did a bit of research and appears to be safe and recommended for tapering, promoting relaxation.

 

Cheers

 

PS--Holy Basil has been studied extensively. Broad range of benefits. Anyone using.

I take 50mg of L'Theanine about 30 minutes before bed.  I think it helps reduce random thoughts (quiets the mind).  I take perhaps 25mg again each time I wake up at night (like 2 or 3 more times).  I use this brand https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B0036H0CV6/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

Thanks Bob

 

Ordered a similar brand of Suntheanine. Assume you open capsule and use 1/2.

 

Indeed, quieting the mind is a valuable effect. And, using when waking up during the night is a good idea.

 

Cheers

Yes I open the capsule and sprinkle it on my tongue.

It works very well.

[[bl...]]

Hello group:

 

Noticed some are using the supplement--L-Theanine.

 

Can you tell me about your dosage and time of use. And if you take it along with your benzo PM dose before bed.

 

Does the substance (surprisingly a derivative of green/black tea)--help fall asleep and/or stay asleep.

 

Did a bit of research and appears to be safe and recommended for tapering, promoting relaxation.

 

Cheers

 

PS--Holy Basil has been studied extensively. Broad range of benefits. Anyone using.

I take 50mg of L'Theanine about 30 minutes before bed.  I think it helps reduce random thoughts (quiets the mind).  I take perhaps 25mg again each time I wake up at night (like 2 or 3 more times).  I use this brand https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B0036H0CV6/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

Thanks Bob

 

Ordered a similar brand of Suntheanine. Assume you open capsule and use 1/2.

 

Indeed, quieting the mind is a valuable effect. And, using when waking up during the night is a good idea.

 

Cheers

Yes I open the capsule and sprinkle it on my tongue.

It works very well.

 

Bob7

 

Thanks.

 

I see you are online. Didn't realize you had completed your taper.

 

Did you use l-theanine during tapering.

 

Can't find any conclusive info. on net.

 

Apparently, it effects gaba and wonder if safe during withdrawal.

 

On alternative thread subject: l-theanine---http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=235638.0

 

Last comment member used during taper.

 

Cheers

[[...]]

I can I remember experimenting with it during my taper but probably only took it a couple times.

I mostly have used it after my taper

[[bl...]]

I can I remember experimenting with it during my taper but probably only took it a couple times.

I mostly have used it after my taper

 

I will test a small amount. But, likely best to use at end or completion of taper.

 

Thanks for your time--Bob7.

 

Cheers