Long-Term Users group - w/d and recovery after longterm use

[[Sc...]]

Hi nitengale,

Thank you so much for the response. I get the either feeling numb or too emotional. I don’t understand my Gemini 20 scale, hopefully when I’m ready to taper someone can help me with either that or liquid, not right now though.

 

I’m glad you’re feeling better, this gives me hope.

 

Did you by chance take Teva generic & have other generics to compare to it. I’ve taken teva daily for 8 years & theyre discontinuing. I’m scared to crossover, limited by what pharmacies can get & no idea what to cross to. Oh & need to figure a new generic out ASAP.

 

Sorry I’m so needy right now. I hope to keep in touch. You sound great. Glad your feeling better & are an inspiration for me. Be well, SC

 

 

[[Gw...]]

Hi Scaredie,

 

I'm sorry to hear you're having a tough time getting started with your taper. I can't remember from your previous posts, but did you consider doing a crossover to Valium? I never took Kpin but I've been interested to read people's experiences doing the crossover before taper. Maybe since you have to switch to something else anyway, it is worth considering?

 

Gwinna

[[bl...]]

Scaredie:

I agree with Gwinna. I crossed over from kpin to Valium and had no issues. Crossing from one brand of Kpin to another, however, was a problem as I recall. I believe it's easier to taper valium anyway so maybe consider just doing that instead? Sorry if I missed something.

[[ni...]]

 

Scardie, I am sorry you are struggling. It is such a difficult road to be on, but it does get better.

I never took Teva, but did take Sandos in the later years. I was sensitive to drug manufacture changes, but just had to deal with it, which was always less sleep. Looking back now, it perhaps was kindling. I had no idea there was a such a thing until I read about it on BB.

Many on here have had success switching over to valium. Because I didn't want to involve my PCP in my taper, as I thought he would cut back on my meds and wasn't sure if I would be successful. It was one less stress I wanted to deal with, so I stayed on clonazepam the entire taper.

 

[[Sc...]]

I just tried to reply & it bumped it off as someone else was replying at same time.

 

Thanks for all the caring & sharing.

 

I asked my p doc to cross me over in the beginning & he wouldn’t do an equivalent dose, so I forgot about it.

 

Also, others have said they didn’t take well to v either too sedating, increased depression or somehow didn’t agree, so that just cemented my thought to stay on k pin.

 

I don’t know what I’m going to do. I’ll have to pick & switch to a different generic soon.

 

I could try to find a new p doc but this one is willing to let me taper as slow as want but won’t write liquid. I’m on a hefty dose to do a crossover.

 

If anyone cares to share their crossover experience I’d appreciate it.

 

Dose starting with of k, crossed to how much v.

Switched all at once? In parts?

V taken only at night? Cause more sedation than k?

Anything else you can think of. Thanks, SC

[[bl...]]

Scaredie: I had same experience with Sandos and Teva. Here is my story. Once I got down to .25 kpin and crap hit the fan. Baaaaad insomnia, could not open my hands. Had no idea it was drug. None. Went to every dr out there. Finally called psychopharmacologist and he said, “why didn’t you call me?” Ummmm, I had NO idea drugs were related. Anyway, he immediately crossed me over to 10 mg Valium, pretty big upsose, and all a/x went away in 2 hours. Been tapering Valium since. Was totally fine until 3mg when tho ya got hard again, but not as bad. Doing DLMT now.

Good luck. I did not have issues with cross over but everyone is different. could stay on a bit of k and go partial Valium?

[[Sc...]]

Thanks blue pill.

So when you say you had same experience with teva & Sandoz, you mean the discontinuation?

Did you take both or any others like actavis or solco/qualitest & consider them equal.

 

My doc will only cross me to I think he said 40mg v. Totally not enough.

 

Until the teva fiasco, I would have held off on even thinking about v until lower on k.

 

Can you clarify what the phsychopharmacologist said to you? How did you find one? We’re they willing to let you taper at own rate?

 

Thanks again be well. My brain doesn’t want to work today. XxSC

[[bl...]]

Scaredie:

Are you on 3.5 mg Kpin now? That would be about 70mg of Valium I think--so 40 is not enough. But you could take the 40 and then continue with the 1.5 Kpin and see how that goes?

 

Yes, I can't remember what I took brand wise but they switched me to Sandos and that did not work for me. The Teva was fine once I found it.

 

Psychopharma was my prescriber so I didn't have to go find a new doctor. He is fairly benzo-wise--so much so, in fact, that he retired--I think sensing the shit show coming down the pike w/ all this. That said, yes, he was willing to taper me as slow as I wanted to go and he did say Valium was MUCH easier to get off than Kpin. Since he retired I found another dr willing to do the same and prescribe liquid valium. Neither dr was willling/able to devise a taper schedule but I found a biddy on here who helped with that.

 

Hope this helps?

[[Sc...]]

Yes, blue, I’m on 3.5. Thanks for the idea & answer about generics. Gosh I’ve got so much new medical stuff going on right now, this is horrible timing for the k, my head is spinning.

 

I guess it might be hard to say because you were on a higher dose when you were tapering k, but do you think it’s easier to taper than k?

I fear it may be too sedating at my dose. Some say it’s very sedating.

 

I think I saw you were having some hand inflammation earlier. Did that resolve? Find out the cause?

I hope your feeling better.

Much thanks for trying to help even when your not feeling well.

Be well, SC

[[Si...]]

If anyone cares to share their crossover experience I’d appreciate it.

When I requested a Valium crossover, my doctor told me he felt that Librium would provide a "smoother" transition, so I used it for my taper.  The Ashton Manual does recommend Librium for crossover purposes; however, Valium is available in slightly smaller equivalent doses.  -Jeff

[[bl...]]

Scaredie; personally I find v easier to taper. As I said, at .25 k I was a mess, so skinny, no sleep, arthritic hands, I’m not old enough for arthritis, and bad vision issues. Since the cross over, I have been much better. The Updose on Valium was nice because all s/x went away within hours which made me feel it really was the drugs, and not an underlying condition. My sense it that klonopon is the very hardest to get off but that doesn’t mean that’s true for everyone. I do not find the valium sedating at all but it’s possible that it acts as more of a depressant. My health anxiety and lack of sleep did drive me to start lexapro which helped both, but now I will have to taper that once I’m done tapering Valium. For me, a worthwhile deal with another devil, but not for everyone.

Thanks for asking about hands. Still problematic. Totally disappears when I updose but not an option at this point so I’ll keep going and hope it resolves post taper. If not, back to rheumatologist. Good times.

Anyway, if you are feeling nervous about cross over don’t do it. I only suggested it because you were running into problems with brands and party line seems to be that crossing over to Valium can ease tapering for people. But you know best what’s right for you.

[[Ba...]]

Scaredie: I had same experience with Sandos and Teva. Here is my story. Once I got down to .25 kpin and crap hit the fan. Baaaaad insomnia, could not open my hands. Had no idea it was drug. None. Went to every dr out there. Finally called psychopharmacologist and he said, “why didn’t you call me?” Ummmm, I had NO idea drugs were related. Anyway, he immediately crossed me over to 10 mg Valium, pretty big upsose, and all a/x went away in 2 hours. Been tapering Valium since. Was totally fine until 3mg when tho ya got hard again, but not as bad. Doing DLMT now.

Good luck. I did not have issues with cross over but everyone is different. could stay on a bit of k and go partial Valium?

 

Bluepill,

 

Interested in this!  I was down to about 1/3 of a .5 klonopin.  That is when I took mirtazapine and felt crappy on it, and worse off.  Went into intense withdrawal... bedridden... huge vision problems, no sleep at all, vibrating, sweats, nausea, bloating, pain, etc. Anyone else would have gone to a hospital but I am scared of hospitals.

 

At that time, psych. said 'no it can't do it' re mirtazapine.. so we did not trust her.  She advocated taking lyrica every night and 25 mg valium.  Wonder how that would have gone??

 

Anyhow, had not told her she had tapered the clonopin over many many months... so took the script for valium and crossed over to like 5 mg. 

 

It has been crappy every since.  No stability and if I take part of a lyrica (maybe 25 mg) feel loads better and like a human being. 

Without it, huge ache-i-ness, vibrations, depression, very sick.

Oh, and that is with an ambien in there, too (back in the clonopin days sometimes took ambien, but now afraid not to take it).

 

Any ideas how to proceed?

 

Not an option to be nonfunctional entirely as am alone and do need to eat and stuff.

 

But your saying how you suddenly got ill made me think.

 

BTW, how did you find a psychopharmacologist?  Can't seem to find any here.  Psychiatrists happy to rx whatever you want, but a scientist... ??

 

Thx.

[[Ba...]]

I will add do not find valium sedating.  I wish I did, as my issue was/is sleep.  I only took/take it at night.

 

I actually feel it does nothing for me.  The ambien did more, but think not any longer as have taken too long.  I guess should cut the valium.  I am really afraid of ADs and have a bad track record with them.  So guess I need to consider the Lyrica after all.  Tried gabapentin but kind of massively hung over on it and nonfunctional that way.

 

I will say ambien and a half makes me feel "normal" again so it is the drugs.  SIGH.  However, nobody is going to rx ambien like that (they are HALVING the dose for women to 5 mg, down from 10) and I gather it is like a benzo even more than gabapentin or lyrica.

 

What a mess.

 

Brand-wise you all like Teva?

 

I notice on 5 mg valium Teva is gone and it is made by DAN or something...?  Used to be Activus or something?

Mostly still cutting up 10 mg pills, which is Teva.  I have some old Teva stuff, too.  Really are the brand that much different...

 

 

 

 

[[Ma...]]

I will add do not find valium sedating.  I wish I did, as my issue was/is sleep.  I only took/take it at night.

 

I actually feel it does nothing for me.  The ambien did more, but think not any longer as have taken too long.  I guess should cut the valium.  I am really afraid of ADs and have a bad track record with them.  So guess I need to consider the Lyrica after all.  Tried gabapentin but kind of massively hung over on it and nonfunctional that way.

 

I will say ambien and a half makes me feel "normal" again so it is the drugs.  SIGH.  However, nobody is going to rx ambien like that (they are HALVING the dose for women to 5 mg, down from 10) and I gather it is like a benzo even more than gabapentin or lyrica.

 

What a mess.

 

Brand-wise you all like Teva?

 

I notice on 5 mg valium Teva is gone and it is made by DAN or something...?  Used to be Activus or something?

Mostly still cutting up 10 mg pills, which is Teva.  I have some old Teva stuff, too.  Really are the brand that much different...

 

It's just unfathomable to me they can have such a wide percentage in what is supposedly the same drug, how can the drug companies get away with that....I just don't get it   so in answer to your question....yes, they can be that different 

[[bl...]]

BARBARA:

Are you still taking klonopin? If u feel the Valium didn’t work or made things worse why not cross back over to Klingon and taper that instead? Everyone is so different. For me, the Valium was fine. I did try the mitz for sleep—all this has been about sleep— and it made me feel terrible so I see no reason to continue that unless it helps. R u doing a DLMT? I certainly have a/x but it’s been better going liquid. I don’t know about lyrics or gaba as I haven’t taken. The lexapro has really helped my sleep, I don’t think I the Valium does anything, so knock wood that will continue to help through this endless taper. I’m not really sure I answered your question??

A psych pharmacologist is just a psychiatrist who primarily prescribes drugs rather than extensive  talk therapy.

[[Ba...]]

BARBARA:

Are you still taking klonopin? If u feel the Valium didn’t work or made things worse why not cross back over to Klingon and taper that instead? Everyone is so different. For me, the Valium was fine. I did try the mitz for sleep—all this has been about sleep— and it made me feel terrible so I see no reason to continue that unless it helps. R u doing a DLMT? I certainly have a/x but it’s been better going liquid. I don’t know about lyrics or gaba as I haven’t taken. The lexapro has really helped my sleep, I don’t think I the Valium does anything, so knock wood that will continue to help through this endless taper. I’m not really sure I answered your question??

A psych pharmacologist is just a psychiatrist who primarily prescribes drugs rather than extensive  talk therapy.

 

I thought was doing fine tapering clon.... in fact, I was not looking in groups for help at all... was at about 1/2 of a .5 mg klon....... took mirtaz.... WHAM!  Every withdrawal symptom in the book and horribly ill.  I am not on mirtaz or clon, am on about 3.1 valium and 10 ambien.  Sleep is the worst problem.  Just saw dr. who suggested Saphris, took small dose and eventually, yes, did sleep but caused me PAIN.  Took again... more PAIN.  OK, I am through with that.  I can't take anything it seems, which is why wound up on benzos.

 

>>  why not cross back over to Klingon and taper that instead?<<

 

Klingon?      I'd rather meet a Klingon than this!  Uh, seriously go back on the clon?  I imagine I could but all this for nothing???  OMG.  Ya think?

 

R u doing a DLMT?<<

 

Am I rx'ed liquid valium, no.  Would that help?

 

I certainly have a/x but it’s been better going liquid. I don’t know about lyrics or gaba as I haven’t taken. <<

 

Well was helping a bit then not, and if up it, my cognitive abilities go south.  So they will not be in the picture as don't think helping.

 

The lexapro has really helped my sleep, I don’t think I the Valium does anything, so knock wood that will continue to help through this endless taper. I’m not really sure I answered your question??<<

 

I know I tried Lexapro ages ago and pretty sure I can take NO  ADs.  Nor antihistamines.  Nr antipsychotics.  I know tried a mood stabilizer or two back in the day (luckily almost all were samples so didn't waste ton of money).  But need some sleep to continue taper.

Agree the valium makes me a bit dizzy but does nothing else. Ambien not doing much either now. 

 

A psych pharmacologist is just a psychiatrist who primarily prescribes drugs rather than extensive  talk therapy.<<

 

Oh, well that would be 99% of them, I think.  Rare is the one who talks nowadays.

 

Wonder if could take restoril, switch it out for ambien and valium??  Or that risky?

 

aargh.

[[Sc...]]

Scaredie; personally I find v easier to taper. As I said, at .25 k I was a mess, so skinny, no sleep, arthritic hands, I’m not old enough for arthritis, and bad vision issues. Since the cross over, I have been much better. The Updose on Valium was nice because all s/x went away within hours which made me feel it really was the drugs, and not an underlying condition. My sense it that klonopon is the very hardest to get off but that doesn’t mean that’s true for everyone. I do not find the valium sedating at all but it’s possible that it acts as more of a depressant. My health anxiety and lack of sleep did drive me to start lexapro which helped both, but now I will have to taper that once I’m done tapering Valium. For me, a worthwhile deal with another devil, but not for everyone.

Thanks for asking about hands. Still problematic. Totally disappears when I updose but not an option at this point so I’ll keep going and hope it resolves post taper. If not, back to rheumatologist. Good times.

Anyway, if you are feeling nervous about cross over don’t do it. I only suggested it because you were running into problems with brands and party line seems to be that crossing over to Valium can ease tapering for people. But you know best what’s right for you.

Bluepill & everyone, here, thank you you’ve been so kind & helpful. I wa able to get some 1mg tevas for 1 month then back to trying either actavis or solco/qualitest clonazapam.

 

After that I became so depressed that (even though I’m very med sensitive & have failed multiple antidepressant trials) I asked p doc for lexapro(escitalopram)It’s generic by aurobindo-something like that-lexapro has helped me in the past with depression with some sedation & lack of motivation side effect & I can’t Remember what else.

 

I started 2.5mg on 8/4 & just moved up to 5mg, yesterday 8/10. I started taking it at night time got insomnia, switched to am, feel extra sedated, unmotivated. The entire time I’ve felt it’s worsened my depression. Or stretched out my depressive moments to all day instead of random meltdowns. I thought I was starting to see something positive last eve as I listened to Ave Maria without breaking down into hysterics, which has been my norm for a long time. I havnt been speaking to anyone so that fools me into thinking I may be feeling better, but mom just called & as soon as I spoke the tears uncontrollably flowed.

 

My questions blue & or anyone with lexapro experience, granted I know we are all different:

Do you remember what your start up,was like?

 

Did you ever feel worse with depression or anxiety while adjusting to getting onto lexapro, then feel better than prior to lexapro once it kicked in?

If so, how long till it kicked in, what dose & can you explain what you felt like during start up phase?

Both the emotional & physical side effects during start up & if when they went away?

 

Did you take brand or generic(which generic), if both do you think brand works better?

 

Do you take it am or pm? How did you decide?

 

Physical side effects so far: teeth clenching(not sure if from lexapro(escitalopram)or k generic pretty sure has worsened from lexapro though as I look in the mirror & it looks like I have permanent frown when it’s really bad-not so before lexapro, insomnia, fatigue, worse depression, no motivation, rls, headache, dry mouth, achy joints, minor heart palps sometimes, chest pain-but was having that before & it feels musculoskeletal, probably anxiety, I just can’t put my finger on it because I’m so depressed, but sorta frozen in bed, don’t want to try anything kind of anxiety.

 

In sum. Anyone feel worse before better on lexapro, how long did it take to feel better?

 

Much thanks :'(

 

 

[[No...]]

Hey All,

 

I hope someone can tell me if its normal to feel really bad in the mornings. My relative is using Clonazepam for almost 8 years now. Right now he tapered to a low dosage though (i thought 0.75mg daily). But he is always feeling really bad in the mornings, hangover like. Around 16.00 o clock he starts to feel better and a bit more normal. He is also using SSRI, Can Clonazepam or SSRI or combination cause hangover like symptoms? And does someone know any tips for this? He is also diagnosed with Parkinson. He has the typical Parkinson resting tremors and loss of smell etc, but for us its still a mystery because most of the Parkinson symptoms occurred after long term use of benzos and SSRI. He tried to taper already but even with really slow tapering (according to Ashton) the withdrawal symptoms were unbearable, back pain and extreme tremors. But for now the mornings are so bad, hope someone has some tips.

 

I hope someone recognises this story.

 

Thanks already in advance.

 

Novan

[[Gr...]]

 

 

>>  why not cross back over to Klingon and taper that instead?<<

 

Klingon?      I'd rather meet a Klingon than this!  Uh, seriously go back on the clon?  I imagine I could but all this for nothing???  OMG.  Ya think?

 

R u doing a DLMT?<<

 

aargh.

 

OMG, guys this made me laugh so hard.  :laugh:  

[[NJ...]]

Hey All,

 

I hope someone can tell me if its normal to feel really bad in the mornings. My relative is using Clonazepam for almost 8 years now. Right now he tapered to a low dosage though (i thought 0.75mg daily). But he is always feeling really bad in the mornings, hangover like. Around 16.00 o clock he starts to feel better and a bit more normal. He is also using SSRI, Can Clonazepam or SSRI or combination cause hangover like symptoms? And does someone know any tips for this? He is also diagnosed with Parkinson. He has the typical Parkinson resting tremors and loss of smell etc, but for us its still a mystery because most of the Parkinson symptoms occurred after long term use of benzos and SSRI. He tried to taper already but even with really slow tapering (according to Ashton) the withdrawal symptoms were unbearable, back pain and extreme tremors. But for now the mornings are so bad, hope someone has some tips.

 

I hope someone recognises this story.

 

Thanks already in advance.

 

Novan

 

Yes, mornings are usually worse for people, i think it is mostly because cortisol is highest in the morning, it surges to wake us up, but the cortisol surges at least for me are far worse than before I started tapering.

 

My mom has Parkinson's, so I feel for you with the symptoms. I would say that if it is Parkinson's there is a lot of things that people can do to try to slow the progression of the disease, such as continuing or starting to work out, even if it is just tai'chi. I feel like my mom got her diagnosis and then just sat on the couch and now we are really in a bit of a mess trying to figure out what to do with her.

 

BTW, .75 mg of klonopin is not that low of a dose. Feel free to post other questions. We will all do our best to help you.

[[bl...]]

Scaredie:

The Lex induction is NOT fun. You have to decide if you can handle it. It takes 2/3 weeks to settle down but then you should start to feel better. But you have to make decision if your body can take it right now. Hope you feel better soon.

xo

[[Sc...]]

Scaredie:

The Lex induction is NOT fun. You have to decide if you can handle it. It takes 2/3 weeks to settle down but then you should start to feel better. But you have to make decision if your body can take it right now. Hope you feel better soon.

xo

Thanks again, blue, got your other response too. Sorry I must seem like a total stalker. You’ve been very helpful, I’m really just in the beginning. My body is going to have to take it as I really need to feel better & live not just exist, ya know. XO

[[bl...]]

Scaredie:

Not at all! We have all been there. I am grateful I can be helpful. I don't check board every day but I am here if you have questions and feel free to pm me. Not that I'm an expert but I was loathe to add another drug--so I get how you feel.

[[Sc...]]

Scaredie:

Not at all! We have all been there. I am grateful I can be helpful. I don't check board every day but I am here if you have questions and feel free to pm me. Not that I'm an expert but I was loathe to add another drug--so I get how you feel.

Ok nah thanks blue pill, be well. X

[[Cu...]]

Know this is older thread, but posting here, b/c I've been online a long time today & want to read entries here when I'm fresher ~

If anyone else reads this, please post!  That way I'll get an e-mail; only easy way finding my way back to something! 

 

I am finding myself getting a bit upset when I'm reading posts from folks who have only taken short-term & are out driving and functioning, so was excited about finding this.  Am thinking the most severe sxs are from taking higher doses & for longer periods of time.

 

I also jumped 2/16/19

~ Thanks! ~ CuzKK