Help - Need Plan For 0.5mg Ativan Titration

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I see what you're saying. Might have to try smaller cuts. Today is much better. Pretty much no symptoms. I don't want to make the cuts so small that it ends up taking forever  . But whatever works right? I think the switch to liquid must be good by now. There are times where I feel great. Like yesterday before my evening dose I almost felt normal. So I know there's no interdose going on. Just 3 doses exactly 8 hours apart.

 

Again I want to thank you guys so much for the effort and support in helping me. Especially Kiddo, Juliea, SG57 and Laser. I'd seriously be lost without you.

 

Not that you need reminding, but I will anyway.  This is THE problem with benzos that gets everyone into trouble.  It takes so long that we all push it.  Sometime too much (me   ).  And the reality is that it is false economics.  We cannot choose our healing rate.  If we get to zero faster we end up doing the time on the other side of zero anyway.  Stay on the drug longer and keep yourself feeling good.  As hard as it is, try to throw out the calendar and stay focused on feeling well.

[[Gr...]]

I see what you're saying. Might have to try smaller cuts. Today is much better. Pretty much no symptoms. I don't want to make the cuts so small that it ends up taking forever  . But whatever works right? I think the switch to liquid must be good by now. There are times where I feel great. Like yesterday before my evening dose I almost felt normal. So I know there's no interdose going on. Just 3 doses exactly 8 hours apart.

 

Again I want to thank you guys so much for the effort and support in helping me. Especially Kiddo, Juliea, SG57 and Laser. I'd seriously be lost without you.

 

Not that you need reminding, but I will anyway.  This is THE problem with benzos that gets everyone into trouble.  It takes so long that we all push it.  Sometime too much (me   ).  And the reality is that it is false economics.  We cannot choose our healing rate.  If we get to zero faster we end up doing the time on the other side of zero anyway.  Stay on the drug longer and keep yourself feeling good.  As hard as it is, try to throw out the calendar and stay focused on feeling well.

 

But doesn't staying on the drug longer make the dependency that much greater? Remember I've only been taking it daily now for about a month. I know you're right I just have to bash it through my thick skull. 

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I agree you will likely become more dependent during the taper.  And until a few months ago I blindly followed that logic too.  Then it finally clicked and I saw the false logic I had applied.  This is about giving our brains the best shot at health and minimizing injury.  Symptoms are a sign our brain and CNS are in trouble.  The drug is NEEDED for proper function.  To me if you have a dependency it no longer matters how long you took it.  Your body will dictate the removal rate it can tolerate.  Hopefully for a short-timer like you the rate will be fast, but there is no guarantee.

[[Ki...]]

Green - my pleasure buddy. I'm more here to make you laugh as I'm learning as I go as well  Although (knock on wood) whatever I'm doing is working currently. And when it's stops working, I'll find something else that does until I'm home free.

 

SG57 - how long were you on K before your 30 month taper? How are you feeling now and how long have you been "free"? 

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Green - my pleasure buddy. I'm more here to make you laugh as I'm learning as I go as well  Although (knock on wood) whatever I'm doing is working currently. And when it's stops working, I'll find something else that does until I'm home free.

 

SG57 - how long were you on K before your 30 month taper? How are you feeling now and how long have you been "free"? 

 

Hi Kiddo,   I was on K for 21 years prior to tapering.  I tapered for 30 months and have now been free for 16 months.  I seem to be in a two-day pattern where one day is pretty good and symptoms are mild.  Then the next day is a struggle.  I've been alternating this way for quite some time.  Healing is very very slow, but it is there.  In hindsight, I can see that I probably needed at least three years to taper.  Perhaps even more.

[[Ki...]]

SG57 - thanks for sharing. A 30 month taper shows a lot of patience. I hear that K is even more volatile than Ativan so good for you!!! I'm glad you are seeing some healing take place. That's encouraging, especially after long term use. Stories like yours give me courage to keep moving. Thank you for being so open 

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What astounds me still is that 30 months was TOO FAST!!! 

[[Ki...]]

SG57 - yeah, that's tough. It's a double edge sword.  A 3-4 year taper would mean being on the drugs for that additional time frame....I'm one of the people who believe that although we heal during our taper, true healing doesn't begin until we're off the drugs. I know there are varying opinions about this. So at 16 months off for you, what is lingering and what is improving? What would you say (in terms of percentage) you are healed?

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It has been a very slow gradual improvement where I can see definite changes about every 3-4 months.  I'm generally better across the board.  All symptoms are less and some are gone.  Hard to put a percentage on it with any accuracy.  One day I'm pretty darn good, the next I'm struggling.

[[Gr...]]

Is there anybody / proof of a slow taper where healing was completely done when reaching zero?

[[La...]]

Is there anybody / proof of a slow taper where healing was completely done when reaching zero?

 

Do zebras fly? Lol

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Don't let my case discourage you.  I didn't taper properly until it was too late.

 

From what I read there seems to be a difference between complete healing and feeling well.  I think it comes down to patience and I'm not sure anyone has the patience to go slow enough to be completely healed at the end.  Probably the best example of feeling well I can think of who is still around is Bart.  There are a bunch of people over on the Valium Support thread who are feeling well and near the end.  I don't follow many others.

[[Gr...]]

Here's an update and also looking for advice. So I've been doing the .002mg daily cuts. At first I did 4 days of cuts and then held a couple days. But now I'm on my 8th day in a row of cutting and it's also my 10th day in a row with zero symptoms. So I want to try bumping up to .003mg daily. Do I hold now for a couple days or just go straight to .003mg? It's so odd that I don't feel symptoms. Now I've probably jinxed it Thanks.

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Very glad and happy for you that things are going better and more in line with what was expected.

 

It may be possible that all the beginning stuff was due to adjustment to a weak liquid.  I guess we'll never know for sure, but it makes sense.  You have now had time to heal that portion while you have been tapering below your healing rate.  That's the model and your reaction matches it.

 

Honestly, I'd give it more time at .002mg.  Symptoms lag behind and it can be quite long.  My lag was ten days.  So if I made too big of a cut I would not know it until ten days later.  I like to see people test a cut for two full weeks.  If I remember correctly we think your lag is a few days...three or four maybe.  So you may be fine, but it is good to take things slow and deliberate with benzos.

 

But no need to hold when the increase is made.  And .003mg is a good choice I think.

[[Gr...]]

Very glad and happy for you that things are going better and more in line with what was expected.

 

It may be possible that all the beginning stuff was due to adjustment to a weak liquid.  I guess we'll never know for sure, but it makes sense.  You have now had time to heal that portion while you have been tapering below your healing rate.  That's the model and your reaction matches it.

 

Honestly, I'd give it more time at .002mg.  Symptoms lag behind and it can be quite long.  My lag was ten days.  So if I made too big of a cut I would not know it until ten days later.  I like to see people test a cut for two full weeks.  If I remember correctly we think your lag is a few days...three or four maybe.  So you may be fine, but it is good to take things slow and deliberate with benzos.

 

But no need to hold when the increase is made.  And .003mg is a good choice I think.

 

Do you mean 2 full weeks without any hold days? Because I've been cutting .002mg now for about a month but with holds.

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Yes that is with no holds.  If you NEED to hold due to symptoms that's a different story.

 

Basically if you can "cruise" for at least two weeks cutting every day with no symptom increase then that cut is a good one and you can try a higher one.

 

I was thinking about your proposed increase and wanted to suggest perhaps an increase to .0025mg might be a better choice as you are at such a low dose already.  I don't know anyone off hand that can taper much beyond .002mg at your dose.

 

In the end it is up to you.  All of this is just my suggestions.

[[Co...]]

Yes that is with no holds.  If you NEED to hold due to symptoms that's a different story.

 

Basically if you can "cruise" for at least two weeks cutting every day with no symptom increase then that cut is a good one and you can try a higher one.

 

I was thinking about your proposed increase and wanted to suggest perhaps an increase to .0025mg might be a better choice as you are at such a low dose already.  I don't know anyone off hand that can taper much beyond .002mg at your dose.

 

In the end it is up to you.  All of this is just my suggestions.

 

Rriver dropped 0.004/day for the majority of her taper feeling pretty well. She adopted a 2 day hold on weekends which she says brought a ton of stability to her taper. She's currently at 0.03mg.

 

SG I just finished reading this whole thread and everything you are saying makes complete sense. I don't believe that true healing occurs when you're completely off the drug. As you say you need to supply enough drug so the brain can heal steadily.

 

I fucked up hard, ended up in the ER twice. After that ended up taking random doses throughout the next month, some days 0.25,some days 0.5,some days none. I had no idea I was going through w/d and can only imagine how much damage I've done to myself.

 

Still, it is so bizarre to me that I was capable to taper 0.05/day for the first half of my taper. I wish I up dosed and held at halfway.

 

Kiddo has been trying to bash this in my head, the whole notion of accepting what I'm going through. Reading this thread and others I'm coming to realize it may take me a ridiculous amount of time to come off this drug. I don't believe in suffering throughout the whole thing, you're just going to prolong your acute with the possibility of reinstating and kindling.

 

Reading how green had a bit of difficulty switching to liquid, perhaps because of a weaker solution at a dose of 0.50,i can only assume it's going to be difficult for me at a dose of 0.13.

 

Another thing is how sensitive I am at lower doses. Trying to scale my dose accurately is ridiculous. I'm just kindling updosing and down dosing every day, because I know I feel 0.01 differences. I can only pray I respond well to liquid because if not I have no idea how I'm going to finish my taper.

 

I was hoping I could taper at 0.002/day with holds on weekends, but even I'm coming to realize that probably won't be possible.

[[Co...]]

I'm trying to understand this lag period. Most feel the brunt of their cut 3-4 days after (ativan). If we're doing daily cuts how is it even possible to be able to determine when you're going to get hit. For example, me cutting at 0.05/day I couldn't tell ANY difference until 1 day I got hit extremely hard, still haven't really gotten out of it 2 months later, although last week I seem a tad calmer.

 

How can one accurately find a daily healing rate when we've got the previous days piling on.

 

From 0.17 to 0.13 I've dropped 0.01 every 6days average, and that was definitely much too quick.

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Hi Cosmic,  You are at .13mg Ativan?  And switching to liquid to finish?  I'd hold and let the change settle in first.  And if you feel any increase I'd probably updose because that is a sign that the liquid potency is not as advertised.  When I felt well enough to taper I'd probably begin by dropping no more than .001mg per day to start.  You gauge the cut size by paying attention to symptom increase.  If there is no symptom increase during a two week period of daily cutting, that cut is okay.

[[Co...]]

Hi Cosmic,  You are at .13mg Ativan?  And switching to liquid to finish?  I'd hold and let the change settle in first.  And if you feel any increase I'd probably updose because that is a sign that the liquid potency is not as advertised.  When I felt well enough to taper I'd probably begin by dropping no more than .001mg per day to start.  You gauge the cut size by paying attention to symptom increase.  If there is no symptom increase during a two week period of daily cutting, that cut is okay.

 

Im going to PM you