Valium/Diazepam Support Group

[[bu...]]

 

How long were you on?

I'm wary of psych meds.

When I came off trazodone I had these really horrible angry spells where it felt like steam was coming out of my ears and i wanted to smash the place up. Also a couple of friends noticed I was not myself during this time.

I did jump off at 25mg though, maybe a bit  high. Id been on it for 6 yrs starting at 450mg and very slowly comming down, a bit every few months.

 

3 years.

[[Ja...]]

Thanks builder

That's great you got off in two weeks!

Did you complete the benzo taper first and how long after did you get off remeron?

Were you sleeping ok? That's my main concern

I have been on remeron 15 mg since October. When I went into cold turkey and couldn't stabilize

Doc feels I need something "underneath" to get thru withdrawal and I have to agree I think I would be much more uncomfortable if just on Valium right now bc the cold turkey and fast taper kindled me so now microtapering

Was doing ok these past 3 days but burning and anxiety back today. It's ok.

Still functional. That's all that matters and I have like 250 days left.. Oy.

[[bu...]]

I stopped the Remeron before I started my V taper.

 

After I started my V taper, I still took small doses (3.75mg) for sleep when needed (maybe once every week-10 days)

[[cr...]]

Moo, I just read that your father passed, I am so very sorry for your loss.  Thank you for all the help and support you always offer to the people on this forum, you are a good person.  Cross

[[Mo...]]

Moo, I just read that your father passed, I am so very sorry for your loss.  Thank you for all the help and support you always offer to the people on this forum, you are a good person.  Cross

 

Thank you, Cross.. That's very kind of you.

 

Hope you're doing alright..

[[Ki...]]

Those old school sedating antihistamines really do help me most nights. Either doxylamine or hydroxizine (sp?) but thats a prescription. Some people have to take more and some people hate it because of daytime hangovers but for a lot of folks its worth it.

[[bu...]]

Those old school sedating antihistamines really do help me most nights. Either doxylamine or hydroxizine (sp?) but thats a prescription. Some people have to take more and some people hate it because of daytime hangovers but for a lot of folks its worth it.

 

Many BBs have had good luck with doxylamine.  I found it worked almost as well as Rx Remeron.

[[Ke...]]

Chess player

Thanks for info on Zoplicone. I am close to being done with the Valium (I hope)... The doctor never warned me about the Zoplicone.

So I think I better just get the Valium over and done with and then tackle the Zoplicone.

Honestly... The way I felt, I don't know if I could get rid of the Zoplicone first.

The doc gave me some Trazadone so I will try that but one thing at a time. I don't have much faith in that though....

K

[Guest [Jo...]]

 

How long were you on?

I'm wary of psych meds.

When I came off trazodone I had these really horrible angry spells where it felt like steam was coming out of my ears and i wanted to smash the place up. Also a couple of friends noticed I was not myself during this time.

I did jump off at 25mg though, maybe a bit  high. Id been on it for 6 yrs starting at 450mg and very slowly comming down, a bit every few months.

 

3 years.

IT was good you were able to taper off in two weeks, hope it went well.

[[...]]

Hi, Hubby back with a very bad report on my wife. She has had an horrific week, with very bad Panic attacks everyday, wakes up unable to get her breath, feels as if her throat is closing up and a very bad pressure in her head!! We are still on hold, waiting to stabilize but it just seems to be getting worse??? Don't know if we should go ahead and start reducing with a very slow daily taper???

 

Anyone have any ideas, because we are lost and very frustrated !!! I knew this was going to be hard, but not this hard!! And I'm only a bystander!! 

[[mr...]]

Hi, Hubby back with a very bad report on my wife. She has had an horrific week, with very bad Panic attacks everyday, wakes up unable to get her breath, feels as if her throat is closing up and a very bad pressure in her head!! We are still on hold, waiting to stabilize but it just seems to be getting worse??? Don't know if we should go ahead and start reducing with a very slow daily taper???

 

Anyone have any ideas, because we are lost and very frustrated !!! I knew this was going to be hard, but not this hard!! And I'm only a bystander!! 

Why did you taper so fast?

Is there a reason that she has to be off the valium so quickly?

[[bu...]]

Hi, Hubby back with a very bad report on my wife. She has had an horrific week, with very bad Panic attacks everyday, wakes up unable to get her breath, feels as if her throat is closing up and a very bad pressure in her head!! We are still on hold, waiting to stabilize but it just seems to be getting worse??? Don't know if we should go ahead and start reducing with a very slow daily taper???

 

Anyone have any ideas, because we are lost and very frustrated !!! I knew this was going to be hard, but not this hard!! And I'm only a bystander!!

 

So she's gone from 30mg/day to 3.75/day in 9months?

 

Hmm...I think I know what the problem is. 

[[dd...]]

DVD-waaaaay too fast of a taper! Needs to hold and get stable-maybe even updose slightly if she needs to get a grip and then hold for a week or two and then the taper should be about .5 every one to two months. Look up micro tapers and titration methods. Have to go slow and listen to your body...you don't get to be on a schedule...your body dictates the schedule...

[[mr...]]

DVD,

If I calculated correctly, your wife should be at around 9-10mg valium after a 10 month taper at 10% per month, just to get an idea of how fast she is tapering.

 

[[...]]

Hey Guys - thanks for the responses. We really didn't think that the taper was too fast?? She had gone to a rehab clinic ( which I wouldn't advise anyone to go to who has Benzo problems ) and they had scheduled her to be off in 8 weeks!!! Needless to say I didn't let her stay there, besides they were treating her like a hard drug addict??? Then I ran across Ashton plan in the internet, and thought that she has more experience dealing with benzo addiction than anyone else I had run into or read about !!! And started following her taper plan for diazepam. Everything was going pretty smooth until she hit 5 mg, and seemed to hit a wall!!! That is when I discovered Benzo Buddies, and received a lot of good advice from people who are actually going thru this HELL!! The advice about daily tapering I found to be especially good!!

 

I realize that everyone responds differently based on their experiences, and this is why I like it when more than 1 person responses so I can get a broader look at what their experience has been.

 

From your responses I see that you feel that the taper is to fast, and that we should hold a while longer, so she can stabilize. My question is how can I tell if she is stabilized??? We have been on hold about 4 weeks now, but she seems to be getting worse???

 

Thanks  - Hubbyhttp://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/Smileys/standard/huh.gif

[[bu...]]

 

From your responses I see that you feel that the taper is to fast, and that we should hold a while longer, so she can stabilize. My question is how can I tell if she is stabilized??? We have been on hold about 4 weeks now, but she seems to be getting worse???

 

Thanks  - Hubbyhttp://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/Smileys/standard/huh.gif

 

Although many will disagree, I would updose back to the last dose where whe was comfortable.  Why suffer unnecessarily?

[Guest [ch...]]

Just to chime in in support of dvd, Ashton schedule 2 shows a taper schedule that would take one from 30mg to 3mg in 5 to 10 months. We point to Ashton in reply to everyone's introduction, but then expect them to magically know that they should really go slower than the schedules given in Ashton?

 

dvd, in my experience this is the nature of tapering. It goes well down to a certain point and then the symptoms kick in. Sounds like below 4mg is that point for your wife. I'd say, hold (or perhaps even updose a bit) until stabilized, then take it really slow from there. Best wishes,

 

Chessplayer

[[no...]]

Hey Guys - thanks for the responses. We really didn't think that the taper was too fast?? She had gone to a rehab clinic ( which I wouldn't advise anyone to go to who has Benzo problems ) and they had scheduled her to be off in 8 weeks!!! Needless to say I didn't let her stay there, besides they were treating her like a hard drug addict??? Then I ran across Ashton plan in the internet, and thought that she has more experience dealing with benzo addiction than anyone else I had run into or read about !!! And started following her taper plan for diazepam. Everything was going pretty smooth until she hit 5 mg, and seemed to hit a wall!!! That is when I discovered Benzo Buddies, and received a lot of good advice from people who are actually going thru this HELL!! The advice about daily tapering I found to be especially good!!

 

I realize that everyone responds differently based on their experiences, and this is why I like it when more than 1 person responses so I can get a broader look at what their experience has been.

 

From your responses I see that you feel that the taper is to fast, and that we should hold a while longer, so she can stabilize. My question is how can I tell if she is stabilized??? We have been on hold about 4 weeks now, but she seems to be getting worse???

Thanks  - Hubbyhttp://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/Smileys/standard/huh.gif

 

 

 

Hi DVD  Some people need to hold a LOT longer than a few weeks I kept running into problems holding for 3 to 4 weeks until I worked out I'm not holding long enough. Some people need to hold for at least 3 to 6 months or more, builder himself held for 2 year's at one stage others a year, or six month  until equilibrium was reached enough for the person to continue tapering much more comfortably. The Ashton taper was way too fast with not long enough holds recommended and its got a lot of us into trouble, and its not set in stone its just a ''suggestion'' of how to go about a taper. And since that was written people have devised much better ways to taper and recognise longer holds may be needed if your too symptomatic as I and others are.

 

Below in my signature is a link that takes you to a thread I started asking for advise about long holds from those who had did them as I couldn't go on any longer in the state I was in even doing a micro taper, and got lots of positive feed back. Below is just one of the post's I've written since I began my long hold and now I'm just over two months in. I hope it is of help to your wife its not a one size fits all and holds are just as important,  as the cuts. The drug metabolites may be out of our system in ex amounts of weeks but our bodies require a lot more time than that to repair its self on a cellular level and a complete central nervous system, I've give a long explanation in the quote below about this ....

 

 

 

author=nova 1 link=topic=151007.msg2069976#msg2069976 date=1460012066]

I am now going to stop day counting on this hold, and just go for as long a it takes to get where I want to be Things as of now are up and down some worse some not some coming and going but that's what will happen. We aren't trying to heal bones but to obtain homoeostasis of the body and brain, and that takes the infinite number of cells we have all being under reconstruction as wel as trying to perfom their daily chores within us.

 

As a wise person said in one of the quotes I've put up but in a slightly different way, our bodies know how to heal many things but these drugs are an alien thing to our innate ability to heal its not like any other injury the body has encountered in billions of years of evolution, so it has to learn as it goes along and this takes time.

 

Imagine trying to learn a language you or anyone else you knew had never heard or even knew it existed until now, while its not impossible it would take one hell of a long time and trial and error before you began to know what to do and how to go about learning it. There would be a lot of errors as you continued to get your head around it before you were able to complete you learning taking a lot more time than learning a language other people knew or you were aware of in existence.

 

Well this is what our bodies are going through right now they've encountered a completely alien injury and are trying their best to over come it the best they can patching things up the best they can until they get to where they can make better stronger longer lasting new structures over time. So what happening for a while is the same as us putting a band aid over the injury, its not a cure but a temporary fix until its healed properly how ever long that takes, but the body is aware of how to fix this no problem as its within its bank of knowledge how to do this but even that takes time a cut don't heal over night.

 

The body makes temporary fix while it continues working on a complete fix in the time it takes and healing from drug injury is the same except it takes quite some time as its a new type of healing for the body to take on.Our bodies are amazing but complex as are our drug injury and complex takes a lot of time to get the understanding of and conquer it, but the body is very, very clever and given enough time it does its job brilliantly but you can't rush it.

 

Its not like it has just one thing to deal with its a huge scale and involves so many things its impossible to name and label each cell and pathway it has to encounter and fix as it goes along all the while still working repairing while learning all at the same time. So it it any wonder that we feel all over the place not stable for quite some time, and symptoms come and go some for good others keep cropping up time after time after going for a while new ones come its not level or stable for ages.

 

We have a good day or a few hours or minutes then some  of it goes  or comes again back or worse than it was, but if you just surrender to the fact that what's happening has to happen as that's the way the repairs are taking place towards making it permanent eventually but this isn't going to happen as fast as we want and in fact will take a lot longer than anyone can estimate or hope for.

 

But it will come eventually and all we need to do is allow it to happen and not panic and stop it midway by making it place a band aid which eventually will wear out and the incomplete repair will still be there causing a knock on effect else where. I read many threads on here and there one where those that are off are surprised that their still having certain problems so severely after a certain amount of time off  as they all believed that once off it was going to be uphill quite quickly.

 

Before I read that thread I was thinking I don't care If I have to stretch this last leg out for a four, five, six years whatever it takes as long as I can live do what I want feel good alive living  whole even if its with a bit of discomfort until I taper off completely then not have years in hell as opposed to off in no less than a certain time all in hell anyway and still in hell years after? 

 

Then as I read the thread the one person who had actually spent four years tapering and did long holds was the one who was100% after coming off and had recovered during the long holds and found the taper a lot easier and less symptomatic to the point they weren't bothered by any symptoms as they just held as soon as one came up no matter how long it took to hold and feel good for a while before continuing.

 

So if it takes years just taking a drug  I've been on nearly all my life but living as well as some one that never took this drug and getting off eventually then that's brilliant better spend years getting of happily than years spent regretting not going at turtle rate taper with long holds. And  doing intermittent holds even when I feel good to allow the body to catch up before it has to give me  painful reminder.

 

And remember we are more than just our body we need to be repaired  physically , mentally ,emotionally and spiritually that's the depth of damage these drugs have done to us all. And all that takes time, patience, acceptance and surrendering to the holds long enough to allow it it all to happen and listening to and having faith in our bodies wisdom and innate healing ability.

 

 

Love Nova xxx  :smitten:

 

 

Where I'm at now at just over 8 weeks during this long hold

 

 

 

 

 

Hi V  I'm not sure if I have ever tried the one on the link as I tried many over the last few years but Elixa is the one that serves me well I tried all the popular ones like Prescript assist, Primal Defense Ultra, all they did was turn my faeces  green and an experiment using them and AOR Probiotic-3 and other wel known brands showed they made no difference to bacteria count before or after taking them but Elixa did. This was research was done by an independent party that has no allegiance or anything to gain or lose with the probiotic companies involved. Here is what Elixa contains....

 

Lactobacillus Acidophilus, Lactobacillus Plantarum, Lactobacillus Reuteri, Lactobacillus Rhamnosus, Lactobacillus Casei, Lactobacillus Helveticus, Lactobacillus Salivarius, Bifidobacterium Bifidum, Bifidobacterium Lactis, Bifidobacterium Longum, Bifidobacterium Infantis, and Bifidobacterium Breve.

 

 

I have to confess that every-time I reply to you as ''V'' I'm tempted to address you as ''Flying V'' for some reason but its all good anyway  I don't know if you know but a Flying V is an Iconic Guitar made By  Gibson. 

 

Well a brief side note yesterday was another AAARRGGHH!  :D Day But today is much better in many ways not that everything is perfect, but today is a horse of another colour compared to yesterday. I still did even again better on Lumosity Brain training games again yesterday even though it was  AAAAARRRGGHHHH !! again  And today I AM KING!!! :laugh: I really excelled myself today 

 

My high scores were right up again on today's session, and my ability to understand complex things I'm reading has improved as well, before Benzos I absorbed things like a sponge and understood everything first time. Then spend I year's with everything I knew and learned seemingly erased from my brain and I was unable to understand what I was reading and had to spend hours constantly going over and over he same sentence as I'd forget what it was about before I go to the end of a sentence.

 

And I was an extremely fast reader who devoured massive books in one or two sittings and had perfect recall of practically every word in each chapter. Last year spent two or three months trying to read one book before giving up and reading on the web made me schizoid the stimulus was too much for my brains and caused me terrible burning nerve pain all over my body and rattled my brain.

 

But today I've read something complex and understood it with out problems, but I'm bowing out now as after hours of reading its beginning to wear me down so its time to get off the PC and rest the brain as its beginning to get to point burn out now. The other thing is after a year of being exercise intolerant I've now gone for a walk the last four mornings and today walked for an hour which is a HUGE leap from barely able to move around indoors enough to survive most of the time

 

So things are still going up an down but each up brings another improvement some where, and all this is happening after becoming a LOT worse during this hold first. Which would figure as I'm now allowing my body and brain proper '''repair time'' so its going full on doing its job and that's going to hurt as long as it takes for it to be mended then again when phase two, three, four whatever phase of repair continues.

 

And its not just on a physical level its on all levels emotionally, mentally,spiritually, those levels we are aware if and probably many more we have no idea of their very existence. So that's a lot of up and down as work and repairs get underway and are on going at the same time as other stuff still has to be completed. Is it really any wonder we get so many different days where we feel its never going to happen then one good day goes bad and we think its the end? Whatever we think we are healing and heading in the right direction My hold continues indefinitely I am a work in progress as  we all are 

 

 

 

Love Nova xxx :smitten:

 

 

 

 

I hope in some way this is helpful to you

 

 

Love Nova xxx  :smitten:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[[Kg...]]

DVD I was where your wife was only it was my K taper. I did the updose but I didn't feel better until I went way up on my dose.  I then had to cut all over again to get back down and to be frank I wish I had never up dosed but rather that I had just kept holding at the dose I was on or at the time switched to a micro taper which I did not know about. 

 

This is what I have learned from having failed tapers and now successfully gotten off of K and now tapering the small amt of Valium I have left :

 

  Each person in a benzo taper is very different. I would suggest you ask your wife what she thinks will make her feel better and then just do what she thinks is right for her own body.  If that is up dosing - fine, if it is continued holds that is also fine.  I will tell you that some of us have a paradoxical reaction to the benzos when we hit the proverbial brick wall I turned out to be one of them - in my worst days if I held I consistently felt worse each day of my hold - and I tried to hold a number of times - it never worked for me. (BTW I did try a long hold per Nova and I never felt better the entire time in fact I felt worse the longer I held.)  Since I did not want to go up again I went back to cutting a very small amount and felt better after I resumed cutting. Why  this worked for me I do not know. It happened each and every time I hit the brick wall- I held and felt worse - when I gave up and cut again using the micro taper I felt better.  I know there are others here on BB who have had the same experience as I have.  The other thing with a micro taper is you can change the rate of the taper and taper a very small amount.  Again I would do what your wife feels is best for her - only she can answer this question and I would do whatever she feels will work for her. 

 

During the course of my taper I realized that in order to survive I had to do the following: 

 

Learn to live one day at a time - or one minute at a time - don't think about the next minute or hour only get through the moment you are in -so live in the present.

4, 7, 8 breathing to get me through the hard times minute by minute  (google this)

mindfulness meditation - there are many you tubes on this your wife can pick the one she likes

simple yoga stretches for about 20 minutes or a walk around the block  - anything to get my body moving. I did this even though on some days I felt like I could barely get out of bed. 

distraction, distraction, distraction - whatever it is that works for your wife she should try this - some of us read, others watch TV, crochet, knit, needlepoint, puzzles, adult coloring books, online games,  anything to keep your mind off of how awful you feel. 

Listen to Baylissa Johns you tubes about coping with benzo withdrawal and read her book as well. She also has a simple breathing exercise as well that is on you tube.  Many a time when I was crying I listened to Baylissa's you tubes telling me I would survive  - that she knew how awful I felt, that she too had all these crazy symptoms, and that I would survive and I would be okay.

And last but not least have her come on BB and complain, cry to her buddies and vent - anything at all and everyone will help her get through this and throw her the life line she needs to do this.

 

One more thing as I went down and off of the benzo though I am not s/x free compared to how I felt before I feel much better.  A slow micro taper does work.

[[mr...]]

 

From your responses I see that you feel that the taper is to fast, and that we should hold a while longer, so she can stabilize. My question is how can I tell if she is stabilized??? We have been on hold about 4 weeks now, but she seems to be getting worse???

 

Thanks  - Hubbyhttp://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/Smileys/standard/huh.gif

 

Although many will disagree, I would updose back to the last dose where whe was comfortable.  Why suffer unnecessarily?

I totally agree with this advice, DVD.

Dr Ashton's schedules are just a starting point and most folks do far better going as slow as their body needs at each cut to be stable all the way down.

10% per month is a very safe cut rate, but cutting too fast can cause you to not notice things getting bad until it is too late.

I like to start at 10% and if this seems too slow, I go a little faster, but it is all trial and error because cuts can quickly add up and you find yourself in a really bad state.

I had this issue with my mom because I thought I was cutting .01mg daily, but it was .02mg and by the time I realized what happened, she was at .68mg and should have been around 1.4mg.

I up dosed her to 1.5, held and tapered slower from there and things were much better.

[[...]]

Hi all my BB, is there anyone taking nasonex nasal spray while tapering. I went to EENT  and given me this medication for long term to be taken. Not sure if this is no side effect for W/d.  Thanks, mcm

[[...]]

People - I'm overwhelmed at the response we've received - and now I have to read and digest all of it now.

 

Thanks !!

[[He...]]

  Healing, I will give you a big Atta girl!!!  That you got the nurse to go along with your slow taper and are educating them is such a biggie, sorry no one acknowledged it.  Hope it goes well for you. I am suffering and sick and holding at the moment but wanted to say I care.  Good for you and hang in there.

 

Hi freeme,

I'm sorry to hear you're having a rough time right now. Thanks so much for the "atta girl" I so needed to get. I am so sensitized and lonely, it really hurt that no one even noticed my post about my upcoming taper on two threads. I hope you feel better soon.

 

Edzo8, you too, thanks so much. I eat ice cream sometimes just for comfort. Am coming off an ice cream period because I gained several pounds, and of course it's not good. Glad you have a steady eating regimen. For me it has to come first. At least that's one thing I can control to some extent.

 

I took a minor fall yesterday so am achy. Migraines returned over the weekend. Really looking forward to when I can plan happy fun weekends again. The weather at least is lovely. Aloha to all, Charlotte

[[ph...]]

Charlotte,

 

Sorry you are not doing well.  I, too, eat to make "better".  Now I still am on benzos and need to lose weight

 

I am going to work on both ... good luck to you,  Phoebe

[[ba...]]

Mcm, I had to take some Nasonex a month or so ago (first time ever, benzos or not), and it didn't seem to bug me. I didn't take it quite as often or for as long as suggested; druggist warned I might get nose bleeds?! Anyhow, meds often affect me a lot!, so if I had no trouble, I hope the spray is okay for you  !