Valium/Diazepam Support Group

[Guest [ch...]]

10mg Valium should cover your 1.5mg Ativan. I don't know about the icepick headaches; I've never had that symptom.

 

My psychiatrist prescribed both 10mg and 2mg pills to support my taper. I had no problem filling both prescriptions. Both can be cut in half, so I can make any integer dose just by cutting pills. For example, 8mg is half a 10 and a 2 and half a 2. To do fractional doses (e.g. right now I am down to 2.3mg/day) I need to dissolve pills. What I do is dissolve the 10mg in a bit of vodka first, then dilute with 1 liter of water to make a solution with concentration 1mg/100ml. Then I can make a 2.3mg dose either by measuring out 230ml of the solution, or alternatively by taking a 2mg pill and adding 30 ml of the solution. I store all unused solution in a water pitcher in my refrigerator; I don't toss out anything. So no Valium is wasted.

 

If your doctor doesn't want to prescribe the 2mg pills, there's no reason you can't liquid taper the 5mg pills all the way down. The nice thing about liquid is it's completely flexible. You can start with any size pills and dissolve them and measure out any sized dose.

 

I take my entire dose in the evening. It's not a problem if it "knocks me out" since I want to sleep at night anyway. Valium has a long half life so dosing once a day is not a problem.

 

I think your doctor's proposed taper of 1mg/month is too slow at the start and too fast at the end. For instance when you get down to 2, a cut to 1 is a 50% cut - ouch!

 

Instead I recommend a graduated taper where you faster at the start and slow it down toward the end. The sequence of Valium doses I have taken so far goes 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4.5, 4, 3.5, 3.25, 3, 2.8, 2.6, 2.5, 2.4, 2.3. I'm holding each of these doses for not more than a week. I'm at 2.3mg now and I plan to reduce by .1mg each week or so all the way down to 0.

 

You could do the above without telling your doctor. If you go faster at the start, you can stockpile the Valium to support a slower taper at the end.

 

I hope all this helps. Good luck!

 

Chessplayer

 

 

[Guest [Jo...]]

I should have posted in here.

I take 30mg val in the am and 30mg val in the pm and only the pm works.

You'd think 30mg would knock out an elephant, but one evening before my pm dose, my friend told me I sounded like I was on speed and when I toook the pm dose, my friend could see, within 30mins how relaxed I'd become.

Why is that, im taking the same drug and its having different effects depending on time of day?

thanks

[[Ja...]]

I don't have a medical reason for what you mentioned but I know I am microtapering Valium and at times when I am anxious I seem like I am on meth ( I have never done Meth but I imagine one would look and act like me)

One day I feel sedated another day I feel full of energy almost manic like and I am not nor have I ever been bipolar..

I read on recovery road that these bipolar like moods are very common in withdrawal and tolerance wothdrawal

Mostly once u have kindled ( which I have) it all just backfires

Hope you can start to taper soon looks like you have been drug free before which is great

[[...]]

 

 

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Having BAD WD sx while Stabilizing???

 

« on: April 12, 2016, 12:06:18 pm »

 

 

Hubby back again,

 

Wife is having really bad WD sxs, while holding and trying to stabilize!! She has been holding about 4 weeks now at 3.75 mg V, but the WD sxs seem to be getting worse, with panic attacks happening more often, tremors all the time ( both inside and out ), breathing problems, face feels numb and her skin feels like it is on fire ( this comes and goes and doesn't last more than 30 min )

 

Don't know if she should start a new taper, or continue to hold??? Maybe getting down a little lower will decrease the WD sxs??? Also wondering if she has reached tolerance and it doesn't matter how far she goes down from here ??

 

Feeling very lost and scared - need your help!!!

[[Kg...]]

Dvd: I have been reading here what your wife is going through. I really feel for her having had some awful times myself.  I know that the standard for most people is to continue holding but I will tell you what I have done.  Holding for the most part never helped me and the longer I held the worse I felt.  Therefore I cut - but I am doing a micro taper and my body got used to a rhythm of cutting like this.  I was able to slow down my taper rate if I wished by cutting less of the benzo or by just changing how many days in a row I cut.  I did a taper with the gram scale so I could not cut less than .001 grams at a time.  I would suggest that if your wife is not doing a micro taper that she start doing one either by using the gram scale or liquid. Liquid allows for smaller and more accurate cuts and the people here will help you to do it using your wife's pills - she does not have to get another RX. 

 

Please tell her this will get better. At some doses I also 'hit a wall' so to speak on the way down.  I knew this had happened to others and they told me to push through it - again by cutting at my slow rate. For some reason when I got past it and a bit lower I started to feel better - not symptom free by any means but the symptom were bearable.  Again though I was not doing a cut and hold but the micro taper so I always knew that if things really went south I could just stop the cuts at any time and hold where I was and the cuts were very small over all.  I do not think I would be off of the Klonopin w/o having done a micro taper.  I am now micro tapering the Valium - again I am not symptom free but doing a micro taper.  I just held for awhile and again felt worse each day I held until I gave up and starting cutting again - and again I feel better. So for some of us - not all, cuts help vs. holding. 

[[Mi...]]

Sounds like a very fast taper to me. I'm microtapering at a much slower rate and still having a terrible time. Am cutting .025 mg. per night and am at 7.6 mg. Lots of sx. Maybe slow down?

 

MirandaJane

[[Sh...]]

Tapered from 2mg valium down to 1mg in 20 days using liquid doing 0.05mg per night. Probably too quick cause I felt rough the whole time and ended up having to go back to 1.5. Thinking of doing it again but this time only doing 0.02mg per night...This sucks.

[[Mo...]]

Tapered from 2mg valium down to 1mg in 20 days using liquid doing 0.05mg per night. Probably too quick cause I felt rough the whole time and ended up having to go back to 1.5. Thinking of doing it again but this time only doing 0.02mg per night...This sucks.

 

Yes, it sucks. But it need not be this torturous , by cutting sensibly.

Of course there is no guarantee that things will be smooth and dandy , any way. But 0.5 mgr in ten days is a lot, IMO , on this dose.

 

Try to be patient. Cutting too big will take more time. You'll have to either go back up or hold longer. While cutting smaller will probably allow you to keep going.

 

Hope you feel better soon. It'll even out again....

[[Sh...]]

Thanks moodle. Yeah im thinking 0.02mg per night will equal 0.5mg in 25 days. If its not that much smoother though it might be worth just going quickly...?

[[Mo...]]

Thanks moodle. Yeah im thinking 0.02mg per night will equal 0.5mg in 25 days. If its not that much smoother though it might be worth just going quickly...?

 

Well, it's for everyone to decide what speed to go with but I don't think anyone on here has ever been served by going quickly. You just saw for yourself how symptoms increase to the point where you felt you needed to up dose.

There also may be times where an up dose doesn't help. I've read it over and over.

 

I think...why rush if you can do it in a more tolerable way? I do understand being so fed up with it and tempted to just get it over with. But I've been here long enough to see that " just getting it over with " isn't a choice when you hit the wall.

 

Why not just try this and see first ? If this is manageable for you, I don't think you want to change anything when it helps.

 

You'll be done in a few months when you can manage on the 0.02 cut. Your system might still be in upheaval a bit longer from your obvious rapid cut and up dose. It can be that sensitive.

So, I'd give it w while longer before writing it off as " nothing improves ".

You're not just dealing with the cut but also the previous larger ones...

 

Sorry you feel badly.

[[Sh...]]

Thanks again moodle. I was able to large cuts at the beginning as Id only been on valium for a few months. Id feel shit for 2 weeks and then feel good again. Once i got down to about 2.5mg its been really tough though. It just feels like my symptoms have been here 24/7 lately. I might just have to accept that it's gonna be like this all the way down to the botton.

[[Mo...]]

Thanks again moodle. I was able to large cuts at the beginning as Id only been on valium for a few months. Id feel shit for 2 weeks and then feel good again. Once i got down to about 2.5mg its been really tough though. It just feels like my symptoms have been here 24/7 lately. I might just have to accept that it's gonna be like this all the way down to the botton.

 

Not necessarily.. Some people just hit a wall around this dose.

I was only on for a few months as well. That doesn't really mean much once you're dependent on this junk. Some have been on for years and can just keep cutting . Others just a few months and have a super hard time.

 

You just don't know what you'll get. It's just the nature of this taper. It's unpredictable.

But it's not said it'll be this hard for the ramainder. You might just want to hold out for a bit and it will pass.

If not, cutting in a way that doesn't make it even worse is key, IMO.

 

I think your previous cuts may have caught up with you and you're feeling that now.

If it were me, I'd hold for a bit and then start anew with smaller cuts.

[[Sh...]]

Yes I think ill hold out a little longer. I started an ssri a couple of weeks ago as my doctor suggested it and now ive stopped because its flared up the withdrawal. Once it settles down I think i'll try the 0.02 per day. What rate are you going at? How have your symptoms been?

[[Mo...]]

Yes I think ill hold out a little longer. I started an ssri a couple of weeks ago as my doctor suggested it and now ive stopped because its flared up the withdrawal. Once it settles down I think i'll try the 0.02 per day. What rate are you going at? How have your symptoms been?

 

I've jumped about 6 months ago.

But I used to cut 0.05 mgr a day.

And I did a planned in hold every fourth day.

If I had to do it again, I'd cut smaller and not hold.

 

I've never been symptom free during my taper. But this way it was tolerable, let alone for some particularly strong waves. Where I held.

Under 2 mgr and even more so under 1 mgr I started cutting 0.025 mgr more often.

[[Sh...]]

Oh so 0.05mgr is the same speed I was going which I couldnt handle...is that correct? So you would have cut down 1mg in 20 days aswell...?

 

How have you been since you jumped? You were only using for a few months?

[[Kg...]]

Shamo: I am also cutting from a low dose of Valium though I never took more than 2 mg.  I am only cutting .5 mg in a little over a month. I think you must listen to your body and slow down your pace. As  Moodle says if we try to go too fast we end up taking more time vs. less.  I do a c/c/c/h schedule and I cut .002 grams (I use a scale not liquid) per cut. Unlike Moodle I find, for now, that the hold of one day helps me vs cutting every day. The nice thing if you are using the liquid is you can make your cuts as small as you want.  So if it were me I would hold for a bit and than slow your pace way down until you find the pace that works for you and lets you be functional.  Everyone's pace is different. 

 

[[Mo...]]

Oh so 0.05mgr is the same speed I was going which I couldnt handle...is that correct? So you would have cut down 1mg in 20 days aswell...?

 

How have you been since you jumped? You were only using for a few months?

 

It's different for everyone, one speed would be great for the first person and horrible for the one person. Try and see what makes YOU feel best.

 

I think I've pushed it a few times and it wasn't pretty.

 

I did do regular holds of a few days and sometimes I cut one day and then not for a few.

Mostly I was able to keep cutting and it added up to about 0.5 mgr every 17-18 days or so.

Definitely not 1 mgr in 20 days, I couldn't have handled that.

 

When I hit my wall, I stayed out for a bit.

 

I was on Ativan and cut , rather uninformed, from 4 mgr to 0.75 in about 10-12 weeks. This is Valium equivalent 40 mgr to 7.5. Lost my marbles.

 

Found this forum in febr. 2014 and crossed over to Valium 15 mgr.

I've started tapering Valium March 2014 or so and finished October 2015

 

Crossed over to Valium,

[[Sh...]]

Great effort well done. How have you been since you jumped moodle? Recovering well?

[[Mo...]]

Great effort well done. How have you been since you jumped moodle? Recovering well?

 

Thanks. It wasn't all that easy but I do feel much better than during my taper.

I still have Vertigo, which can be extreme at times and some minor other stuff.

I've more health issues going on, which accompanying symptom overlap with withdrawal xs, so it's a bit hard to say and I may not be the right person to ask about post taper because of that.

I do know that some taper specific symptoms improved much.

 

My dad passed away last week and so I'm in all sorts of weird states. I do think the stress  that came with this has revved me up and thus I can say that post taper, the system is still sensitive to triggers. But overal more tolerable by far .

 

 

[[Sh...]]

Sorry to hear about that...appreciate all your input. I had a traumatic experience a couple of years ago and my mind just focuses on it while im withdrawing. So its been a hard 6 months. Im hoping these thoughts dont get stuck for too long after I jump and I can return to my normal self quickly.

[[...]]

Hi Shamo, I noticed your signature you are on 1mg already, you nearly there, hope your s/x will subside, I'm on 1.8mg now and I feel all s/x getting hard, I think the lower dose we have is the hardest part. 

 

regards to all of us!!

mcm

[[Mo...]]

Sorry to hear about that...appreciate all your input. I had a traumatic experience a couple of years ago and my mind just focuses on it while im withdrawing. So its been a hard 6 months. Im hoping these thoughts dont get stuck for too long after I jump and I can return to my normal self quickly.

 

Thanks..

 

I used to get intrusive thoughts and lots of things from way on earlier in my life would pop up and I could not  shake the image.

That is one of the things that has gone completely.

I was surprised how much my mind cleared up after jumping. In waves I'd still panic a bit but not as bad and also,less frequent and less intense.

[[He...]]

Hi everyone!

Moodle, I'm sorry for your loss. I really experience flare-ups with family or other stressors, even my roommate noticed that I get sick for days. Things like a loss are not easy to take. I don't know your story yet but I hope you have good supportive people around you.

 

Speaking of changes, I've been recovering emotionally from a very positive change. On Monday, the psych nurse practicioner I've been wrangling with in my new medical center suddenly agreed to Rx my V and help me through a micro-taper! I was initially in shock as I expected to basically have to tell her I was going to look for an outside doc and do it on my own. But I did bring her some printed stuff from Ashton, and she apparently had done a lot of thinking about it. She said she's worked with people coming off benzos a lot in the past, and the model she prefers is the detox/using other drugs. But we were able to discuss what dose I will cut (I was even thinking 1 mg per month; she said .5 mg would be better. She even knew about holding (she calls it "plateau") and that it can get more symptomatic at the smaller doses! She asked me if I wanted to start this month or next month and I said this month; I just have to decide when (scared) but I was so relieved! She told me that I'm the first and only person she's done this with, and that she's doing it because I'm a substance counselor with a lot of experience and knowledge and obviously have done my research, and that she hopes I'll help a lot of people later. I said I didn't know how many people I can help while doing classic Tx but that my hope was that she would learn and educate some of the doctors. I mentioned that all addicts are caught in a cycle because the brain is asking for more of the drug, and that they need to be treated with care and compassion. So I'll be starting soon. I kind of like the idea of a dry cut to save steps (micro w/scale). Will be looking for a spreadsheet for a cut of .5 mg/month. Anyway I drove around and I was so full of feelings that I could not feel. It was so weird! Luckily my friend from Maui called (my only social support of substance other than BB) so we talked for awhile. Had to go to work for the evening, later I cried so hard my face is still sore. But it felt good to release feelings. It's been such a long road and now I have a new fork which I know will lead to a good place. Thanks for reading. Sometimes I get so emotional I just have to distract myself in my off hours. Hope to be on here at least once a week though. Aloha to all!

[Guest [ch...]]

Moodle, sorry for your loss.

 

Healingme, that's good news that you found a supportive nurse practitioner. My theory of tapering is you can go faster at the start but should slow down toward the end (see my signature for my Valium taper schedule to date). I'd go faster than .5mg/month at first. But, if .5mg/month is what you're comfortable with, do that. When you get down to the 4 or 3 range, do slow that down though because at that point .5mg is a large percentage of your dose.

 

Chessplayer

[[ed...]]

Here's a bit of a riddle for those of you who enjoy them.

 

I have held at 5mg of Diaz for the past 5 days in part to get some relief from s/x and in part to discern any patterns. 

 

Well there has been a touch of relief (thankfully), but more interesting to me is a pattern I've noticed.

 

Every day at 11:00-11:15AM I take 2mg.  Every day at 7:00-7:30pm I take 1mg. Every day at 1:00 to 1:30am I take my final 2mg.

 

I go to sleep at approximately 2:00 to 2:30am each day and usually am able to sleep until 8:00am to 9:00am.  Unlike many, I don't get the common morning adrenaline rush.  However, each day, no matter what I eat for breakfast, I get hit with either anxiety, nausea, or a feeling of general sickness about 2:00pm until about 5:30pm to 6pm. After this wave passes, I am usually able to get off the couch and get in a bit of exercise.  Unless, I'm feeling a cut, I can generally get through the rest of the day feeling at least 50-60% of my old self.

 

Any ideas as to why I get hit every day around mid-day with s/x? This occurs even when holding.  Each day I wake up feeling pretty good, but then the day devolves right about that 2pm hour.

 

Thanks,

Ed