Valium/Diazepam Support Group

[[Ju...]]

I am very excited about this documentary.  Finally, some light will be shed on our plight.

 

However, I do have one reservation about both the film and the reported class action suit being put together regarding benzos.  For those of us who are tapering now and those who will need to in the future: Will the medical profession become even more averse to dispensing the long acting benzos we need to get off our current dosages?

 

The doco definitely advocates safe tapering and shows tapering information being distributed to doctors so hopefully the awareness raised will bring a mature, informed response from medical professionals over all (best case scenario), and tapering safely will be part of the message sent and received. Rather than "pull the plug cold turkey", which would lead them to bigger lawsuits. We will start to have more of a voice and people will hopefully hear it and respond in a way that redeems them, instead of digging their doctor butts into a deeper mess. Trying to be optimistic, at least that a large percentage of the response will be for people to seek more info and educate themselves. Something we will be able to help with possibly.

[[Ju...]]

I am scared to watch it. The trailer was disturbing

 

I think the trailer is only meant to shock to bring awareness to doctors and the public, and to get people's attention to warn them, but the documentary itself is definitely about people who have gotten to the other side of their benzo taper including the amazing lady whose name starts with "J" who is the mother of the two young kids, her You Tube videos under the name littlemissperfect have helped me a lot, and she's doing so well since her benzo taper finished.

 

So people will see the healing process too. But it's meant as a wake up call to those who are unaware of the issue of benzos at all, who are either prescribing them to people or are unaware that their symptoms are being caused by their meds. The biggest problem is in part the complete lack of awareness about benzos, and this is where this film is aimed.

[[Mo...]]

 

 

 

Thanks for the reply.  I was in the middle of a 5 day hold and was starting to think it was abnormal to need a hold during a microtaper. Since then, I've been reassured a few times that it is okay and often necessary.  I guess reassurance is one thing we all need time and again as the person who experiences no s/x during a microtaper is a rare and lucky bird indeed.

 

--Ed

 

Yes, it is okay 

I held many times during my taper . I never held for weeks but I did do regular holds. And. Sot of my friends did that, too.

It still ads up.

I guess if you cut small enough you never need to but I just kept going 0.05 mgr and held.

 

What was the longest period of time that you held--3 to 5 days?

 

I think my longest was 10 days, and then I did a few of three, four days as well.

Below 1 mgr I cut smaller with more holds. I think I cut every other day at some point but smaller.

0.025

[[Ju...]]

It looks like the film may be helpful. Already I'm in that category like thousands who have been Rx benzos and are now being cut off and made to feel like addicts because of it. Well, we are addicts and I care very much for addicts; it's my current career and my work. Whether we are fiending for drugs or trying not to get sick is immaterial. However some people love to judge. My point is, doctors are not supposed to harm. They are supposed to heal. I said to the idiot nurse prac today who asked me "can you make it to Monday?" (for my refill due Friday; oh excuse me she only works on Mondays, must be a tough life): "You first job is to do no harm. NO I am NOT going to 'make it to Monday'. You need to prescribe so I don't get sick". So the lovely lady is making it so I have to drive in and hand-carry an Rx to get my refill when all she had to do was make a call. Never mind. These fools need to learn to think, as they are lacking compassion. Don't get me wrong. As I said, I care deeply for addicts. Regardless, it is a disease. In this case, but Pharma and the stupid docs who are mesmerized by pharma are the pushers. Yes, we'll have the ultimate responsibility to educate. And we'll do it. I will not make excuses for my anger. At this point several medical personnel are fortunate to have been spared some truths. I'm not done yet, though. Someone was writing a book on here a couple of years ago; that looked promising. It needs to get in the media though. They keep smoke screening the benzo deaths with other drugs. Our time will come. I do celebrate that benzo RX is lessening; the timing sucks for us right now, though. Food for thought, Charlotte

 

Yes, it's such a frustrating mess. And I hope so much that it changes both short term for you this week with your nurse, and long term over all for everyone. I saw another video about benzo bullying which discusses the things miseducated doctors and nurses often say to benzo taperers because they're trained to keep an eye out for addicts, oh the irony... they created the addiction

 

... but anyway, the video is really one that had me nodding in agreement. And it's on you tube under Benzo Bullying by littlemissperfect. It shows how we are often spoken to as if we are completely crazy and irrational addicts, and how we must be exaggerating our symptoms and just being dramatic. And it reassures that this is not the case, just for those who (like I was) are tempted to think "maybe they're right, maybe I'm the irrational one" in the early days when we don't know any better.

 

I know that you and I are unfortunately experienced with this and have been treated like "difficult patients who are just addicts" when we are actually trying to find a safe way out... but I just wanted to mention it in case anyone else is reading this and struggling with it as someone new to the situation. Isn't it at least a relief that they no longer just put all "difficult patients" straight into assylums, I'm SO grateful that had changed because fifty years ago or less, that's where "inconvenient patients who spoke up" were often sent 

 

Anything to make us quiet right? Well good luck to them... we won't be quiet

[[He...]]

Yes, Just Do Today. Thanks for the good wishes. I'll look for those Youtube vids. I agree that taking "mentally ill" patients out of lockdown was a good idea overall. I had a good view of the current system for a couple of years while working with those patients myself. They continue to drug the crap out of them however; hence my education with psychiatrists and dim view. Also they are placed in great numbers in the jail system which is a machine in itself. But I'd like to stop always posting negative info. Resting up from the fracas with the system earlier in the week and getting ready to follow up to better get my needs met. Hope you're having a good day, that goes for everyone who reads this! Aloha, Charlotte

[[bu...]]

If you need to hold during a microtaper, its an indication that you need to lower your daily cut rate.

 

 

The idea  behind a daily taper is you will match your cut rate to your (GABA) recovery rate, and thus avoid significant sxs.

[[Mo...]]

If you need to hold during a microtaper, its an indication that you need to lower your daily cut rate.

 

 

The idea  behind a daily taper is you will match your cut rate to your (GABA) recovery rate, and thus avoid significant sxs.

 

I agree.

 

I cut 0.05 mgr daily with hold on the fourth day. If I had to do it again, I'd not implement holds but cut smaller and keep going.

 

Then again, during some times in my taper I would need to hold, regardless . I'm talking monthly period ( impossible increase of symptoms ) and sickness, stuff like that.

[[ed...]]

If you need to hold during a microtaper, its an indication that you need to lower your daily cut rate.

 

 

The idea  behind a daily taper is you will match your cut rate to your (GABA) recovery rate, and thus avoid significant sxs.

 

Do you think it's possible that the fact you took a couple of month long holds which potentially gave your body and brain a chance to "catch up" played a role in not having any s/x? I guess that is a question which can never be answered with certainty.

 

edit: Or were there periods as you went along and did have s/x as you approached the lower doses? I see that a .02 daily reduction wasn't done for your entire taper.

[[bu...]]

 

 

Do you think it's possible that the fact you took a couple of month long holds which potentially gave your body and brain a chance to "catch up" played a role in not having any s/x? I guess that is a question which can never be answered with certainty.

 

edit: Or were there periods as you went along and did have s/x as you approached the lower doses? I see that a .02 daily reduction wasn't done for your entire taper.

  I only "needed" one hold during my microtaper...that was at 3.5mg.  And a hold, an updose, and an adjustment to my cut rate fixed that.

 

 

 

  That was the only point during my taper that I had significant sxs.  My other holds were strictly for convenience to accommodate travel plans.  Would my progress have different if I hadn't done the "travel holds"?  Well, maybe...but I really don't think so.  Again, the only time I got any signals that things were getting hairy was at 3.5mg.

 

 

[[...]]

 

 

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Panic attach or Seizure

 

«  on: April 06, 2016, 10:20:45 pm »

 

 

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Hi,

 

I'm writing on behalf of my wife, she scared the crap out of me this morning!! When I walked in the dinning room today she was standing there holding on to the chair, shaking worse than I had ever seen her before!! When I grabbed her, she started waving her hands in the air like a spastic, couldn't stand up and her eyes were rolled back!!! I managed to get her to the couch, where she continued to shake and cry. After about 30 min. she finally settled down, but very weak and tired and feel asleep. . I wanted to take her to the hospital, but she refused because of bad memories!! I was thinking that it was either a very bad Panic attach or a seizure???  I've seen her having a Panic attach, but this was much worse!!

 

Has anyone out there every had anything like this??? Please respond !! I need to know if this is WD sx. or something else that has to be checked out!!!

 

Thanks, we both put a lot of value in BB's information. 

 

[[Va...]]

 

 

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Panic attach or Seizure

 

«  on: April 06, 2016, 10:20:45 pm »

 

 

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Hi,

 

I'm writing on behalf of my wife, she scared the crap out of me this morning!! When I walked in the dinning room today she was standing there holding on to the chair, shaking worse than I had ever seen her before!! When I grabbed her, she started waving her hands in the air like a spastic, couldn't stand up and her eyes were rolled back!!! I managed to get her to the couch, where she continued to shake and cry. After about 30 min. she finally settled down, but very weak and tired and feel asleep. . I wanted to take her to the hospital, but she refused because of bad memories!! I was thinking that it was either a very bad Panic attach or a seizure???  I've seen her having a Panic attach, but this was much worse!!

 

Has anyone out there every had anything like this??? Please respond !! I need to know if this is WD sx. or something else that has to be checked out!!!

 

Thanks, we both put a lot of value in BB's information.

Sounds like withdrawal to me. It happened to me before I started to taper. It is scary though. Was she conscious when it happened or did she black out? I was conscious and didn't know what to do. I went to the hospital and they just shot me up with Ativan so if it's a pseudo seizure, I'd probably consider it withdrawal related and hold the dose until the symptoms subside.

[[Ki...]]

Mine wasnt quite that bad but I did have uncontrollable spasms, jerking, horrible shakes for hours on end when I had interdose withdrawals. Once I started crossing over to valium it got much better and within a month they were almost gone. Im sorry shes going through that- its terrible. I know my husband was scared for me too. I hope she can get a plan to help her through this soon.

[[Ju...]]

Yes, Just Do Today. Thanks for the good wishes. I'll look for those Youtube vids. I agree that taking "mentally ill" patients out of lockdown was a good idea overall. I had a good view of the current system for a couple of years while working with those patients myself. They continue to drug the crap out of them however; hence my education with psychiatrists and dim view. Also they are placed in great numbers in the jail system which is a machine in itself. But I'd like to stop always posting negative info. Resting up from the fracas with the system earlier in the week and getting ready to follow up to better get my needs met. Hope you're having a good day, that goes for everyone who reads this! Aloha, Charlotte

 

All the best for Friday, I hope it goes really well with the nurse

[[ed...]]

DVD or hubby,

 

How are things today?

 

--Ed

[[...]]

This is Hubby - She seems to be better, still shaking a lot and has a hard time walking?? Looks like another couch day for her, and she won't go see a Doc., said they are the ones who put her in the situation!! Which I have to agree with her. Since the last cut she has really hit a wall, so we have been holding until she stabilizes, Doesn't seem to be happening?? Can't tell for sure??

 

Thanks for the interest and the responses!!

[[ed...]]

How much was her last cut? I see from her signature that she is at 3.75mg. So .02 or .03? Or did she go for a big cut out of impatience?

 

Regardless, I hope she feels better soon.

 

Best wishes,

Ed

[[...]]

EDZ8

Started doing a daily cut at 4.5 mg and she hit 4.0 in 2 weeks, and it seemed to go pretty well. Decided to hold an extra week this time, but it didn't work out to well and had to break off the cut a week early at .25 instead of .5. This is when the problems started, and seem to be snow balling. She has been holding about 3 weeks now, and have decided to hold at least another week. Hope that is a good move???

[[ed...]]

I'm no expert, but I'd not continue to cut with those types of s/x. I'd hold until things got more manageable. I know nothing about updosing, so I'm not even going to make any suggestions there. One thing I do see is that she was tapering at a rate of over 10% per 2 weeks before current circumstances hit. Once she does stabilize, ask her to sloooow it down a bit.  I'm at .03 reductions for the next two days and will hit 5.0mg. At that point, the plan is to slow down to .025 reductions per day which will put me at about a 7.5% reduction for the two weeks leading down to 4.5mg. And if that's too rapid, I'll have no shame if I need to cut even more slowly.

 

Perhaps another can chime with their ideas on updosing and hold lengths.

 

Good luck!

 

--Ed

[[Va...]]

EDZ8

Started doing a daily cut at 4.5 mg and she hit 4.0 in 2 weeks, and it seemed to go pretty well. Decided to hold an extra week this time, but it didn't work out to well and had to break off the cut a week early at .25 instead of .5. This is when the problems started, and seem to be snow balling. She has been holding about 3 weeks now, and have decided to hold at least another week. Hope that is a good move???

Nothing wrong with a long hold to stabilize. I'm still holding at 9 weeks and feeling better all the time.  No need to rush a taper when symptomatic. --V

[[Ja...]]

I still would go to a doctor if symptoms are extreme

I am microtapering 1.5 ml per day which means 1mg over 66 days. I will slow down if need be to 1ml per day which is 100 days to reduce 1mg. Idk. Good luck. You sound like an amazing caregiver

[[Mo...]]

I'm no expert, but I'd not continue to cut with those types of s/x. I'd hold until things got more manageable. I know nothing about updosing, so I'm not even going to make any suggestions there. One thing I do see is that she was tapering at a rate of over 10% per 2 weeks before current circumstances hit. Once she does stabilize, ask her to sloooow it down a bit.  I'm at .03 reductions for the next two days and will hit 5.0mg. At that point, the plan is to slow down to .025 reductions per day which will put me at about a 7.5% reduction for the two weeks leading down to 4.5mg. And if that's too rapid, I'll have no shame if I need to cut even more slowly.

 

Perhaps another can chime with their ideas on updosing and hold lengths.

 

Good luck!

 

--Ed

 

If symtoms are intolerable, DVD, then I'd not cut either.

There isn't such a thing as " pushing through " this.

Yes, the goal is to get off this drug. But I think the ultimate goal is to get off of it in a way that's bearable. Quicker isn't better int his case.

 

I,would also hold till symptoms decrease. And if 0.5 in two weeks is too much, which it seems to be ( and I think it is ) then slow down and make your daily cuts smaller?

 

 

 

 

[[Mo...]]

I still would go to a doctor if symptoms are extreme

I am microtapering 1.5 ml per day which means 1mg over 66 days. I will slow down if need be to 1ml per day which is 100 days to reduce 1mg. Idk. Good luck. You sound like an amazing caregiver

 

Thing is....what's the doctor going to do?

That probably has been one of the hardest things for me, during my taper. That there isn't anything to be done about this than time needing to pass.

[[bl...]]

I jumped from klonopin last night after what seemed like a successful cross over to valium 2 weeks ago. Doctor said to take 12 mg and jump off last bit of K. He also said to go up to 12mg of v  if I felt symptomatic and that he felt it was possible to do this without terrible suffering. I've suffered so much trying to cut and hold klonopin alone. Guilty as I feel about crossing over--I am going to try and listen to him now b/c I just wasn't handling life on my own cut and hold plan after I was down to .25 k. Maybe there is something to help your wife. Sometimes when things are really bad we feel so committed to seeing it though but it's so easy to lose perspective in midst of such terror. I don't know. I just know it was too much for me so I am trying another avenue. I hope she feels better.

[[bl...]]

Btw: I am at 10mg--not the 12mg the dr suggested--b/c I know I will have to begin this taper soon enough. And I do feel s/x already but they are bearable. My only point was that sometimes, if things get really bad, a week or two of clarity can make a big difference. For me, just seeing how much the v made me feel better allowed me to calm down a bit about underlying issues and remind myself that IT IS THE DRUGS.

[[Ju...]]

This is Hubby - She seems to be better, still shaking a lot and has a hard time walking?? Looks like another couch day for her, and she won't go see a Doc., said they are the ones who put her in the situation!! Which I have to agree with her. Since the last cut she has really hit a wall, so we have been holding until she stabilizes, Doesn't seem to be happening?? Can't tell for sure??

 

Thanks for the interest and the responses!!

 

I can understand why it scared the crap out of you and also why she is totally hesistant to go to a doctor. If she's conscious it sounds withdrawl related, and will hopefully only come in waves and pass over the next few days as she holds...but if she loses consciousness or starts frothing at the mouth lay her gently on her side and keep her airways clear and call a doctor. Having experienced both epilepsy and benzo withdrawls I can personally confirm that they feel very similar at times. Sounds like her brain and body have gone into total shock from withdrawls. Which is both terrifying for you to go through but also confirmation that the meds are coming out of her system successfully. I'm really glad she has a supportive partner like you there with her. Have also heard of several people having similar side effects during benzo withdrawl, and it definitely fits the same description with everything you've said above. As ineffective as this may sound, sleep (even ten minutes here or there), water, and time/holding/waiting out the storm are things which - although not easy- will help her recovery... and then way smaller reductions when she does start eventually reducing again. But for now, definitely hold. You're doing really well to cope with this.