Valium/Diazepam Support Group

[[bu...]]

Hello group-another charter member of the V club wanting to join in on the conversation.  Stuck at 4mg for a long time, but needed to release the stress of work (retired now), a lot of emotional baggage (a work in progress) and get the estrogen levels right.  And how could I forget also dismissing the last doctor who really didn't understand how to treat benzo weaning other than with large cuts or inpatient phenobarb?!!  Looking forward to hearing your wisdom and advice. Holding on current dosage until seeing new doc in 3 weeks to discuss her thoughts as to a new strategy. Hope and belief in a better future propels us all on doesn't it?

 

 

Well, good luck with the new doc, but the vast majority of BBs have found just letting a doc write scrips while we do quietly do a self-directed taper to work much better.

 

Disclaimer:  My doc is wonderful, and was fully supportive and cooperative with MY plans, but he is a very rare exception.

 

 

[[Al...]]

My doc is also supportive and he is new as my last doc relocated and my regular doc passed awa.

I am fine with just giving him updates once in a while and letting him give me my scripts and letting me do this on my own.

 

With BB to help of course! 

 

Peace & healing

 

ATU

[[Gr...]]

Hello group-another charter member of the V club wanting to join in on the conversation.  Stuck at 4mg for a long time, but needed to release the stress of work (retired now), a lot of emotional baggage (a work in progress) and get the estrogen levels right.  And how could I forget also dismissing the last doctor who really didn't understand how to treat benzo weaning other than with large cuts or inpatient phenobarb?!!  Looking forward to hearing your wisdom and advice.  Holding on current dosage until seeing new doc in 3 weeks to discuss her thoughts as to a new strategy.  Hope and belief in a better future propels us all on doesn't it?

 

Hello Squirrleygirl -- From my own experience, my husband's and just about everyone on this site, the doctors have no clue about how to plan a safe taper. We are usually the ones educating them. What worked for me was to prepare a plan based on one recommended by Builder or using the spreadsheet (see my profile) and adjusting it so that it's a 5-7% reduction every two weeks, and then to take the plan to the doctor. It helped them to see the dosages and the dates, and they could tell that I had done my research and was desiring to go off and not be a long-term user. I also requested the liquid Valium. How I taper is a little different than others on this site. I use the liquid Valium and follow the column on the spreadsheet that says "Valium intake". That is how much I put into a 1 mg and 1 ml syringe and then add a bit of water so that I can drink it. I don't get the 100% accuracy of titrating but it has been a bit more convenient for me and has worked pretty well. My only challenge has been when I am doing well and then think I can reduce by more than 7% and then the side effects catch up with me in a couple of days. So for me, the magic range has been the 5-7% reduction over a two-week period through a daily micro taper. Also, as with many people on this site, the cut/hold method can be very difficult and didn't work for me. I thankfully learned about a daily micro taper on this site and that's when things got better. If you want to seek help for creating a taper plan, here's a link to where you can submit a request on BB. http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?board=62.0 And then there's also the link to the spreadsheet that I've used on my profile.

[[ed...]]

Hello group-another charter member of the V club wanting to join in on the conversation.  Stuck at 4mg for a long time, but needed to release the stress of work (retired now), a lot of emotional baggage (a work in progress) and get the estrogen levels right.  And how could I forget also dismissing the last doctor who really didn't understand how to treat benzo weaning other than with large cuts or inpatient phenobarb?!!  Looking forward to hearing your wisdom and advice.  Holding on current dosage until seeing new doc in 3 weeks to discuss her thoughts as to a new strategy.  Hope and belief in a better future propels us all on doesn't it?

 

Hello Squirrleygirl -- From my own experience, my husband's and just about everyone on this site, the doctors have no clue about how to plan a safe taper. We are usually the ones educating them. What worked for me was to prepare a plan based on one recommended by Builder or using the spreadsheet (see my profile) and adjusting it so that it's a 5-7% reduction every two weeks, and then to take the plan to the doctor. It helped them to see the dosages and the dates, and they could tell that I had done my research and was desiring to go off and not be a long-term user. I also requested the liquid Valium. How I taper is a little different than others on this site. I use the liquid Valium and follow the column on the spreadsheet that says "Valium intake". That is how much I put into a 1 mg and 1 ml syringe and then add a bit of water so that I can drink it. I don't get the 100% accuracy of titrating but it has been a bit more convenient for me and has worked pretty well. My only challenge has been when I am doing well and then think I can reduce by more than 7% and then the side effects catch up with me in a couple of days. So for me, the magic range has been the 5-7% reduction over a two-week period through a daily micro taper. Also, as with many people on this site, the cut/hold method can be very difficult and didn't work for me. I thankfully learned about a daily micro taper on this site and that's when things got better. If you want to seek help for creating a taper plan, here's a link to where you can submit a request on BB. http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?board=62.0 And then there's also the link to the spreadsheet that I've used on my profile.

 

Have you or your husband ever hit a rough patch (even during microtaper) where you had to hold. Sadly, things were going along fine with my microtaper and now...not so much.

[[Ja...]]

Hi!

I am doing a micro taper 1.5ml per day from 5mg

Held for 7 wks in jan/feb

Question:

I tried splitting my dose 1mg am and the rest plus milk titration at night

First night went well and I slept. Felt great the next day no burning etc and slept thru night

I had a good day yesterday almost feeling "normal" ( I am only down to 4.5 or so now)

Then I picked up my son who was writhing in pain, lots of drama, urgent care etc etc. I thought I handled the stress ok and thank god I was feeling well enough to parent. But last night have been up since 3am, night sweats all night.

Now I am rethinking the split dose.

Thoughts? I find sleep is the key issue.. When I sleep ok I have less burning and symptoms. I was told to split my dose bc my moods were up and down and every day I felt so unpredictable and on a rollercoaster

Thoughts?? Experiences? I am not sure if my system got revved up from yesterdays drama w my son or it was coincidence and the split dose issue. Today I feel like hell. It's so weird how one day I can feel normal and the next barely functional. My taper is 1mg over 66 days. Initially it was a 500 day taper but I just can't sustain this rollercoaster for over a year IWill end up in a psych ward or detox. Pls help. Thanks

[[He...]]

Thanks everyone for your support and suggestions. I live in the San Francisco Bay area. California is a very big state so I don't think I will be seeing docs in the Los Angeles area FYI. Sorry I'm really stressed. Just Do Today thanks super much, mahalo nui loa...maybe it's the institutions I've tried here but there seems to be a huge crackdown on Rx of both opiates and benzos. Kind of scared to approach a new doc. I do have a name and I almost saw that person then Kaiser came through for a while...BTW I have used the "want to do a slow taper" approach. No, they just get confused and stuck in their egos, especially because I'm a substance abuse counselor. Of course they MUST know better than me. Sheesh. I will not be approaching any psychiatrists because in spite of the great results one poster had, I've worked with them in direct-client services before and they in general are a scary bunch. Oh yes, they are willing to Rx. $$$ continues to be an issue there. Right now I have a call-in to nurse practisioners at my carrier, they may be able to get me a "few pills" until next Monday when the nutcase nurse prac who wants to put me on Klonapin is in (only in on Mondays, must be a good gig). Couldn't be bothered to contact me herself yesterday it seems. Sigh of huge proportions. Note: I would never, and never have, treated my clients the way I have been treated by these creatures. And I have been faced with many who don't even want help. Respect. Thanks for reading and your support. Will keep you posted. Aloha, Charlotte

[[Ki...]]

Why are so many docs so hot to put everyone on K but run the other way when you ask for V equiv instead? What a giant mess this is- I hope you get some help soon. How awful.

[[He...]]

Right, Kittybeanbag? I suspect big Pharma, about which I know more than I'd like. Thanks for your support. Aloha, Charlotte

[[Ju...]]

Why are so many docs so hot to put everyone on K but run the other way when you ask for V equiv instead? What a giant mess this is- I hope you get some help soon. How awful.

 

I found this too and I think it's because Valium is so publicly known on the media and other benzos are less known.

 

But considering Valium is the "ladder" to get down from our benzo tower, they're really saying "A ladder, are you joking, ladders are sooooo dangerous! I refuse to give you a ladder, I hear they're addictive. Jump off the thirty floor tower instead, it's totally safe"

 

... which is ridiculous, right? 

[Guest [ch...]]

Valium was one of the first benzos and got a bad reputation way back in the 70's for being addictive.

In the 80's big pharma heavily marketed the next-gen benzos (Ativan, Klonopin, Xanax) as being safer and less addictive, although in fact the opposite is true. Even now, 30 years later, many doctors still believe the marketing lies that have been told by big pharma.

 

Often people on BB talk about political action to raise awareness about benzos. One thing that has occurred to me is that perhaps the most effective action would be for some of us to somehow get invited to speak at conferences attended by doctors and psychiatrists. Just tell our stories, to counteract the big pharma lies that doctors have been hearing. Not sure *how* one invites oneself to speak at such conferences, but I'd love to do so if I could.

 

Chessplayer

[[Ju...]]

 

Valium was one of the first benzos and got a bad reputation way back in the 70's for being addictive.

In the 80's big pharma heavily marketed the next-gen benzos (Ativan, Klonopin, Xanax) as being safer and less addictive, although in fact the opposite is true. Even now, 30 years later, many doctors still believe the marketing lies that have been told by big pharma.

 

Often people on BB talk about political action to raise awareness about benzos. One thing that has occurred to me is that perhaps the most effective action would be for some of us to somehow get invited to speak at conferences attended by doctors and psychiatrists. Just tell our stories, to counteract the big pharma lies that doctors have been hearing. Not sure *how* one invites oneself to speak at such conferences, but I'd love to do so if I could.

 

Chessplayer

 

And there's also a brilliant documentary being released soon named "As Prescribed" by Holly Hardman and it addresses benzo withdrawl epidemic on a big loud platform finally, yay!!!!

 

Check out the trailer, it's awesome!  www.asprescribedfilm.com

[[Ja...]]

I am scared to watch it. The trailer was disturbing

[[ed...]]

I am very excited about this documentary.  Finally, some light will be shed on our plight.

 

However, I do have one reservation about both the film and the reported class action suit being put together regarding benzos.  For those of us who are tapering now and those who will need to in the future: Will the medical profession become even more averse to dispensing the long acting benzos we need to get off our current dosages?

[Guest [ch...]]

Yeah, that's a concern. Already many doctors refuse to prescribe, even for tapering purposes. Legal action will scare many more away from prescribing. Black market to the rescue? But we don't want to be tapering with crap made in India and Pakistan. Criminal companies in those countries paint chalk pills blue and inscribe Roche on them; that doesn't turn the pills into Valium.

 

That's why I think educating the doctors is a better approach than an adversarial one.

[[He...]]

It looks like the film may be helpful. Already I'm in that category like thousands who have been Rx benzos and are now being cut off and made to feel like addicts because of it. Well, we are addicts and I care very much for addicts; it's my current career and my work. Whether we are fiending for drugs or trying not to get sick is immaterial. However some people love to judge. My point is, doctors are not supposed to harm. They are supposed to heal. I said to the idiot nurse prac today who asked me "can you make it to Monday?" (for my refill due Friday; oh excuse me she only works on Mondays, must be a tough life): "You first job is to do no harm. NO I am NOT going to 'make it to Monday'. You need to prescribe so I don't get sick". So the lovely lady is making it so I have to drive in and hand-carry an Rx to get my refill when all she had to do was make a call. Never mind. These fools need to learn to think, as they are lacking compassion. Don't get me wrong. As I said, I care deeply for addicts. Regardless, it is a disease. In this case, but Pharma and the stupid docs who are mesmerized by pharma are the pushers. Yes, we'll have the ultimate responsibility to educate. And we'll do it. I will not make excuses for my anger. At this point several medical personnel are fortunate to have been spared some truths. I'm not done yet, though. Someone was writing a book on here a couple of years ago; that looked promising. It needs to get in the media though. They keep smoke screening the benzo deaths with other drugs. Our time will come. I do celebrate that benzo RX is lessening; the timing sucks for us right now, though. Food for thought, Charlotte

[[Gr...]]

 

Have you or your husband ever hit a rough patch (even during microtaper) where you had to hold. Sadly, things were going along fine with my microtaper and now...not so much.

 

Edzo8 -- Yes, we do hold on occasion. Since beginning my tapering last June, I've held about five times for a 3-7 day time period. My husband has had to hold as well at different times if the anxiety got to be too much. We both find that exercise helps reduce the tapering symptoms and is good for balancing moods.

[[ed...]]

 

Have you or your husband ever hit a rough patch (even during microtaper) where you had to hold. Sadly, things were going along fine with my microtaper and now...not so much.

 

Edzo8 -- Yes, we do hold on occasion. Since beginning my tapering last June, I've held about five times for a 3-7 day time period. My husband has had to hold as well at different times if the anxiety got to be too much. We both find that exercise helps reduce the tapering symptoms and is good for balancing moods.

 

Thanks for the reply.  I was in the middle of a 5 day hold and was starting to think it was abnormal to need a hold during a microtaper. Since then, I've been reassured a few times that it is okay and often necessary.  I guess reassurance is one thing we all need time and again as the person who experiences no s/x during a microtaper is a rare and lucky bird indeed.

 

--Ed

[[Ke...]]

I have been reading the cut and hold forum and believe that it's a good idea to hold and try to stabilize. But I am confused as to what people think stabilize is. I just cut from 2.5 mgs of V to 2.0 mgs starting Monday. I just have this feeling that the drug inside me is the cause of my anxiety so I need to continue to get rid of it even if I don't feel 100% after a 2 month hold.

Am I being silly and just too inpatient? I am so scared that I will cause more damage by reducing. I know that .5 mgs may be a lot but then I am hoping because I am on a lower dose that I will be ok and not get too sick with withdrawal.

 

[[ed...]]

I think stabilize means different things to different people. For me, stabilizing means 75-80% of normal. For others, maybe they feel 95-100%, still others might consider 50% as stable as they ever get.  What is the best you've felt in terms of % that you've ever felt during a hold?

 

--Ed

[[Mo...]]

I have been reading the cut and hold forum and believe that it's a good idea to hold and try to stabilize. But I am confused as to what people think stabilize is. I just cut from 2.5 mgs of V to 2.0 mgs starting Monday. I just have this feeling that the drug inside me is the cause of my anxiety so I need to continue to get rid of it even if I don't feel 100% after a 2 month hold.

Am I being silly and just too inpatient? I am so scared that I will cause more damage by reducing. I know that .5 mgs may be a lot but then I am hoping because I am on a lower dose that I will be ok and not get too sick with withdrawal.

 

For me, stable meant I was more functional, but definitely not symptoms free or good enough to go out and about much.

It was more that it would be tolerable.

 

For others it means feeling about 70 -80 percent normal , for as far as I can tell.

[[Mo...]]

 

 

 

Thanks for the reply.  I was in the middle of a 5 day hold and was starting to think it was abnormal to need a hold during a microtaper. Since then, I've been reassured a few times that it is okay and often necessary.  I guess reassurance is one thing we all need time and again as the person who experiences no s/x during a microtaper is a rare and lucky bird indeed.

 

--Ed

 

Yes, it is okay 

I held many times during my taper . I never held for weeks but I did do regular holds. And. Sot of my friends did that, too.

It still ads up.

I guess if you cut small enough you never need to but I just kept going 0.05 mgr and held.

 

[[Gr...]]

I have been reading the cut and hold forum and believe that it's a good idea to hold and try to stabilize. But I am confused as to what people think stabilize is. I just cut from 2.5 mgs of V to 2.0 mgs starting Monday. I just have this feeling that the drug inside me is the cause of my anxiety so I need to continue to get rid of it even if I don't feel 100% after a 2 month hold.

Am I being silly and just too inpatient? I am so scared that I will cause more damage by reducing. I know that .5 mgs may be a lot but then I am hoping because I am on a lower dose that I will be ok and not get too sick with withdrawal.

If I waited to feel 100% I would never make a cut. I've been cutting .5mg every 10-13 days and I feel sxs but it is manageable. I try to cut every ten days, but if I feel pretty bad that week and don't want to stress out my body more, then I'll wait a few more days before cutting again. I'm still at a much higher dose than you, so I don't know how much I'll feel .5mg cuts when I get real low. Koko is one member who did .5mg cuts from 2.5mg down, it took about 3 months to finish according to her signature.

[[ed...]]

 

 

 

Thanks for the reply.  I was in the middle of a 5 day hold and was starting to think it was abnormal to need a hold during a microtaper. Since then, I've been reassured a few times that it is okay and often necessary.  I guess reassurance is one thing we all need time and again as the person who experiences no s/x during a microtaper is a rare and lucky bird indeed.

 

--Ed

 

Yes, it is okay 

I held many times during my taper . I never held for weeks but I did do regular holds. And. Sot of my friends did that, too.

It still ads up.

I guess if you cut small enough you never need to but I just kept going 0.05 mgr and held.

 

What was the longest period of time that you held--3 to 5 days?

[[Ju...]]

 

Have you or your husband ever hit a rough patch (even during microtaper) where you had to hold. Sadly, things were going along fine with my microtaper and now...not so much.

 

Edzo8 -- Yes, we do hold on occasion. Since beginning my tapering last June, I've held about five times for a 3-7 day time period. My husband has had to hold as well at different times if the anxiety got to be too much. We both find that exercise helps reduce the tapering symptoms and is good for balancing moods.

 

Thanks for the reply.  I was in the middle of a 5 day hold and was starting to think it was abnormal to need a hold during a microtaper. Since then, I've been reassured a few times that it is okay and often necessary.  I guess reassurance is one thing we all need time and again as the person who experiences no s/x during a microtaper is a rare and lucky bird indeed.

 

--Ed

 

Yes, just to reassure you I want to add that I've have had to hold a few times during micro tapering as well, but the bumps in the road are nowhere near as big or long as when I was doing dry cuts. Side effects not gone unfortunately, but definitely reduced and less frequent over all since I stopped the dry cuts. I hope your side effects ease soon Ed,

[[Ju...]]

I have been reading the cut and hold forum and believe that it's a good idea to hold and try to stabilize. But I am confused as to what people think stabilize is. I just cut from 2.5 mgs of V to 2.0 mgs starting Monday. I just have this feeling that the drug inside me is the cause of my anxiety so I need to continue to get rid of it even if I don't feel 100% after a 2 month hold.

Am I being silly and just too inpatient? I am so scared that I will cause more damage by reducing. I know that .5 mgs may be a lot but then I am hoping because I am on a lower dose that I will be ok and not get too sick with withdrawal.

 

I agree from experience that the drug is part of your anxiety, it magnifies everything that was already there and adds to it too. Reducing will bring a few side effects from withdrawl but is not causing damage, it's actually a positive sign: what you feel when you reduce is your brain healing as it withdrawls. The damage is only done by staying on the meds long term or increasing them. And as others have said, stabilising is just when you personally feel functional enough to continue rather than 100% symptom free