Valium/Diazepam Support Group

[[fr...]]

  Bets, You seem to be so good at tapering I'm sure when you start you will be a champ at it.  I would start at 5 % reduction myself.  How do you dose, once a day, twice ??  I dosed 3 times a day when I crossed from Ativan and then I tapered my afternoon dose out completely so now I'm on 7.5mg. morning and night.  When I resume my taper after my surgery I think I will alternate cutting each dose.  I am still having many s/x's so I think I am going to start a milk titration  when I'm ready.  I'll do it one mg. at a time from each dose.  Anyway, I am new to this so someone else will come on and give you better advice.  Good luck and glad you are feeling better from your flu. 

[[Di...]]

Hi: Several of you experts have given me a lot of good advice about tapering my Val, but I'm still afraid that I will be going too fast. Also, special thanks to you DP, for being very patient with me. I'm on 70 mg of Val and want to do c/h until I get around 15 mg, Then do a vodka titration. Anymore sage advice? Like should I cut every two or every three weeks? I know this needs to be a progressive taper, and builder gave me that info, but my benzo brain has gotten much worse since I got off the K, so I need advice and/or suggestions on how I should proceed. Thanks, guys.

 

Hi BG

 

Well I'm a big scaredy cat when it comes to cutting valium, so I'm always going to err on the side of extreme caution.

 

A 5% cut from 70mg would be 3.5mg, so technically you should probably be able to comfortably cut that much and then wait for a few weeks to see how you go. However, my benzo paranoia would probably only let me cut 1mg and then cut again after a week if I didn't feel too bad. The end result would be much the same, but I think I would feel better about doing it in much smaller increments.

[[Ca...]]

Since I will begin tapering from 40mgvof Valium from equivalent 2mg Klonopin, in about a month, I thought I'd chime in and ask a question. Has anyone here on a Valium taper followed the 10% suggested Ashton rate all the way through there tapering process? What were the results, if so? And, how has recovering been post taper?  I think I've been scaring myself a little too much lately. Feeling like giving up before getting started. Ugh! C

[Guest [mo...]]

Since I will begin tapering from 40mgvof Valium from equivalent 2mg Klonopin, in about a month, I thought I'd chime in and ask a question. Has anyone here on a Valium taper followed the 10% suggested Ashton rate all the way through there tapering process? What were the results, if so? And, how has recovering been post taper?  I think I've been scaring myself a little too much lately. Feeling like giving up before getting started. Ugh! C

 

I have pretty much stuck to the 10% but I have sped up the number of days at which I hold.  She recommends a drop every 7 to 14 days and I always did 5 to 7.  There were many times I should have waited but became very impatient.  I stopped working in mid-june and not sure if I could have done this pace while working in these lower numbers.  I suppose we are all different but I now know without a doubt that I would never recommend dropping more than 10% at a time.  Just my 2 cents.

[[Ca...]]

Thanks for the reply Mountainyogi. I think I will try the 10% 'rule, advice'. I wish you the best as you finish your taper. C

[[be...]]

Thanks DP!!! I think I'll cut 1 mg, wait a week and if I do OK, I'll cut another 2.5 mg and hold for three weeks.

 

freemee That's what I did with my K and did well with that but Valium is a whole new ball of wax. Plus, I won't have a 2nd benzo to back me up.

[[be...]]

Bets, I have been tapering from Valium for some time now, and I will tell you that it does not matter what the dosage, it is best to go slow and you

 

will be better off. I will reach my .25mg drop on Sat, and I have been doing that for 25 days of 0.01mg a day liq taper, and although I feel fairly good,

 

just more weakness in legs, I am going to hold for 2-3wks, and let my body and mainly my CNS adjust to the new drop, I have a long time still to go

 

but after my first two failures, I learned that going too fast and trying to be free of V, caused  me to be so sick, and it is not worth it, so I may be

 

the last one standing at BB, but I am taking my time, and that's my final word. Oh just a little more, V will come back on you, so it is in my opinion, best

 

not to make it mad!!!!!!!. :D

[[be...]]

begood:

 

That's my plan for now. Others told me to taper 3.5 mg every two weeks. Not so! Everybody does it very slow when it comes to V. Better safe than sorry. I plan to make my cuts every three weeks, not two, like I did with my K taper.

Bets

[[be...]]

Hi DP again:

 

Can you please give me the math equation so I can do a progressive taper? But I think the cuts will be very odd (like 60.1) so I suppose I won't know how to cut them? Thanks.

Bets

[[be...]]

Bets, direct your message to Diaz-pam, she really helped me with all the math and stuff and I then printed it off and it is my other Bible. 

[[be...]]

Bets, direct your message to Diaz-pam, she really helped me with all the math and stuff and I then printed it off and it is my other Bible. 

 

OK. I modified my message. But begood: I think the cuts will be very odd so how do you C/H them to an accurate amount? Make sure your first Bible is NIV........... fwiw~~I think Trudie will be the last one standing. 

Bets

[[be...]]

Bets, I am new to this, but as I said, Jan 2, I will have dropped .25mg in 25 days, at 0.01mg per day. Since I will still have 75 days to get down to 1mg,

 

then will start over to get to 0, mine will be like .25mg most of the way, until I get to that last .25mg and then I will have to post to DP, because this

 

is new to me, but I can say, it beats the h-ll out of trying to do dry cuts with a razor blade. So I will stay at 1.75mg everyday, until I feel I can start

 

tapering again, I think you need to have some kind of number in your head, since I started with 2mg this last go round, it is a bit easier I think. But you

 

are really smart and DP will help you, I do not think I would be doing this if not for DP with excellent instructions, and Yogi, suggesting this site.    I

 

know that many would not want to take 100 days to decrease 1mg, but it is ok, this is not a race, and then I will have another 100 days to do the rest

 

but of course I will be holding and the time will be longer. But I like it here and I'm staying!!!!!!

[Guest [mo...]]

Bets, I am new to this, but as I said, Jan 2, I will have dropped .25mg in 25 days, at 0.01mg per day. Since I will still have 75 days to get down to 1mg,

 

then will start over to get to 0, mine will be like .25mg most of the way, until I get to that last .25mg and then I will have to post to DP, because this

 

is new to me, but I can say, it beats the h-ll out of trying to do dry cuts with a razor blade. So I will stay at 1.75mg everyday, until I feel I can start

 

tapering again, I think you need to have some kind of number in your head, since I started with 2mg this last go round, it is a bit easier I think. But you

 

are really smart and DP will help you, I do not think I would be doing this if not for DP with excellent instructions, and Yogi, suggesting this site.    I

 

know that many would not want to take 100 days to decrease 1mg, but it is ok, this is not a race, and then I will have another 100 days to do the rest

 

but of course I will be holding and the time will be longer. But I like it here and I'm staying!!!!!!

no matter how many days, each day is less than the day before, and the toxic load is decreased--that is all that matters ...................you will get there ladies

[[Kg...]]

Bets:  Why don't you ask your doctor what you should do re your initial cuts.  You are on 70 mg of Valium.  IMHO I don't think you can compare this dose to people taking 15 mg of Valium or 2 mg and cutting very slowly.  I do think you should start slow and see how you feel but then I would see if you could cut a little faster. I don't know why you picked 3 week holds because again I think it depends on how you feel when you cut and when you get 'hit'.  You won't know this until you actually start cutting doses so again 1st cuts should be slow - then see how you do and you adjust based on this.

 

If you want to still do micro taper you can - just weigh your pills and Clona or others will figure out the daily rate you can cut per day.  Since your body is used to cutting this way to continue doing this may actually work better for you than cut and hold. Remember it is all about consistency, and as you know doing a daily taper does not mean you are going slower since you can cut a fair amt off of your pills or with valium given the way pills come you can even use 2 mg or 5 mg pills in the beginning to do your daily taper. 

 

 

Glad to see you are feeling better. 

[[Ho...]]

I am just starting my Ashton taper and have some questions.  This is day 4 of my first cut of Valium.  I cut from 15 mg daily to 14 mg daily (I calculate this is about 7%).  I was previously on Xanax.  I have been on the dose of 15 mg Valium daily for about 6 weeks and finished my wean from Xanax 2 weeks prior to starting my cuts (I know this is not exactly conventional).  I have never felt good throughout the process but was feeling the best I'd felt in a while on the Valium 15 mg daily.  Was able to sleep up to 7 hrs in a row.  I take my Valium 3 times daily and cut 1 mg off the middle of the day dose.  That very first night of my cut sleeping became worse.  The next day I had chills, decreased appetite, intermittent shortness of breath, tremors.  My heart always has the sensation of pounding but was in the 80s and 90s until this morning, now up to low 100.  My question was this too large a cut, should I just hold and wait it out until I stabilize and make a 0.5 mg cut the next go around? Or do I need to updose?  I hate to do that.  My doc wanted me to start cutting 1 mg every week but I'm thinking I need at least 2 weeks between cuts and probably smaller.  Any input?  I don't think I'm ready to start micro tapering yet.  This is my first experience with the valium cuts so I'm not sure what to expect.  How much symptoms are too much?  Do they get better?

[Guest [mo...]]

I am just starting my Ashton taper and have some questions.  This is day 4 of my first cut of Valium.  I cut from 15 mg daily to 14 mg daily (I calculate this is about 7%).  I was previously on Xanax.  I have been on the dose of 15 mg Valium daily for about 6 weeks and finished my wean from Xanax 2 weeks prior to starting my cuts (I know this is not exactly conventional).  I have never felt good throughout the process but was feeling the best I'd felt in a while on the Valium 15 mg daily.  Was able to sleep up to 7 hrs in a row.  I take my Valium 3 times daily and cut 1 mg off the middle of the day dose.  That very first night of my cut sleeping became worse.  The next day I had chills, decreased appetite, intermittent shortness of breath, tremors.  My heart always has the sensation of pounding but was in the 80s and 90s until this morning, now up to low 100.  My question was this too large a cut, should I just hold and wait it out until I stabilize and make a 0.5 mg cut the next go around? Or do I need to updose?  I hate to do that.  My doc wanted me to start cutting 1 mg every week but I'm thinking I need at least 2 weeks between cuts and probably smaller.  Any input?  I don't think I'm ready to start micro tapering yet.  This is my first experience with the valium cuts so I'm not sure what to expect.  How much symptoms are too much?  Do they get better?

Hi Hope and welcome.  I do not know what is the personality and disposition of your doctor but this is YOUR taper and you need to control the speed at which you go, not your doctor.  Ashton recommends 1 to 2 weeks between drops and I remember well the symptoms you are talking about.  Also, your body is still stabilizing from your crossover so please give yourself some time my friend.  Believe it or not, you actually get used to some of these symptoms and they do decrease in intensity in time.  Breathe deeply, research herbs and teas that might help relax you, check into supplements or amino acids that might help like GABA, tryptophan, or glutamine(some people will tell you they rev up symptoms so it will be up to your unique chemistry), there are a few here who will tell you about methylated b vitamins and how they have helped.  This forum is an excellent resource to get through this---Good Luck!

[[Ho...]]

Luckily my doc has been pretty supportive so far and has been listening to me.  I think he is just coming up with a general plan for me and told me we will adjust per my symptoms.  I'm just not clear on how long the symptoms last after a cut and when to make the next drop!

[Guest [mo...]]

Luckily my doc has been pretty supportive so far and has been listening to me.  I think he is just coming up with a general plan for me and told me we will adjust per my symptoms.  I'm just not clear on how long the symptoms last after a cut and when to make the next drop!

 

My interpretation of the 'symptom based taper' is that you cut again once you have stabilized and feel some sort of homeostasis in your being.  When I was doing the dry cut and hold according to Ashton, I would feel the cut 2 days later lasting 3 days(no sleep, extreme rage) and it was pretty intense which is why I like the smaller liquid titration cuts.  Has your doctor seen the Ashton website?  I gave it to mine and I am certain she never went to it.  I really think these doctors are overwhelmed with work and take no extra time to figure this stuff out because it is not part of their paradigm.  They learn to get you on the drugs because that increases wealth for all(doctors, pharm company, pharmacy), but they never learn any protocols to get people off.

[[Ho...]]

My psychiatrist usually transfers people to clonazepam but I gave him a copy of the Ashton manual and he was willing to give it a go.  We are both blundering through this together.  I feel so lost in outer space trying to manage my own taper!  I'd like to at least get my dosage down a bit before considering micro taper, seems so complicated! Glad to have some support here on the boards.

[Guest [mo...]]

My psychiatrist usually transfers people to clonazepam but I gave him a copy of the Ashton manual and he was willing to give it a go.  We are both blundering through this together.  I feel so lost in outer space trying to manage my own taper!  I'd like to at least get my dosage down a bit before considering micro taper, seems so complicated! Glad to have some support here on the boards.

You are in the home stretch and on your way Hope and this is an excellent thread to hang out on and get help as needed to see yourself through.  Just allow yourself to even out before you drop again.  I have seen signatures where people will hold for a month which is really smart I think. Keep us posted and realize it unfolds differently for everyone.  Now when a new symptom pops up, I laugh.  Hmmm, numb toes for a couple of months, then numb bottom lip for while, pains on side of my body(I was sure I had pancreatic cancer), buzzing in ears, and the always maddening 'music on loop' in my head. 

[[Di...]]

begood:

 

That's my plan for now. Others told me to taper 3.5 mg every two weeks. Not so! Everybody does it very slow when it comes to V. Better safe than sorry. I plan to make my cuts every three weeks, not two, like I did with my K taper.

Bets

 

Stick to your guns BG, and don't let anyone tell you how you should taper. You're already an "old hand" at tapering and you know your body. You do what you think is best for you.

[[Di...]]

Hi DP again:

 

Can you please give me the math equation so I can do a progressive taper? But I think the cuts will be very odd (like 60.1) so I suppose I won't know how to cut them? Thanks.

Bets

 

Hi Again

 

What equation are you after? The general guide is 5-10% over 2-4 weeks (some people just say over 2 weeks, but I think that’s too restrictive).

 

So how you would work that out is to take your dose, multiply by the percentage and that will tell you how much to cut.

 

So an example would be – 70mg x 5% = 3.5mg

 

If you don’t have a calculator with a percentage key, just calculate it as – 70mg x 5 ÷ 100 = 3.5mg

 

If you plan on cutting 2.5mg that would be 3.5% (70mg x 3.5% = 2.45mg - rounded up to 2.5mg)

 

Of course as your dose gets lower the amounts will change, and they may not always be whole numbers, but in that case I would suggest going with the lower whole number. So for example, if your cut calculates as 2.2mg I would go with the 2mg to keep everything even.

 

Of course you could go to the daily taper method, and I know you already know how to do that, but I honestly think at your dose it probably wouldn't be necessary, but it's an option of course.

 

If that didn’t answer your question properly let me know.

 

[[be...]]

Hi DP again:

 

Can you please give me the math equation so I can do a progressive taper? But I think the cuts will be very odd (like 60.1) so I suppose I won't know how to cut them? Thanks.

Bets

 

Hi Again

 

What equation are you after? The general guide is 5-10% over 2-4 weeks (some people just say over 2 weeks, but I think that’s too restrictive).

 

So how you would work that out is to take your dose, multiply by the percentage and that will tell you how much to cut.

 

So an example would be – 70mg x 5% = 3.5mg

 

If you don’t have a calculator with a percentage key, just calculate it as – 70mg x 5 ÷ 100 = 3.5mg

 

If you plan on cutting 2.5mg that would be 3.5% (70mg x 3.5% = 2.45mg - rounded up to 2.5mg)

 

Of course as your dose gets lower the amounts will change, and they may not always be whole numbers, but in that case I would suggest going with the lower whole number. So for example, if your cut calculates as 2.2mg I would go with the 2mg to keep everything even.

 

Of course you could go to the daily taper method, and I know you already know how to do that, but I honestly think at your dose it probably wouldn't be necessary, but it's an option of course.

 

If that didn’t answer your question properly let me know.

 

Yes DP. That was the equation I was looking for. I'll go with the lower number. I guess a bit of anticipatory anxiety on my part. After 26 months of this, I think I can handle it. I'm just sick to death of tapering, that's all.

Bets

[[bu...]]

I am just starting my Ashton taper and have some questions.  This is day 4 of my first cut of Valium. I cut from 15 mg daily to 14 mg daily (I calculate this is about 7%). I was previously on Xanax.  I have been on the dose of 15 mg Valium daily for about 6 weeks and finished my wean from Xanax 2 weeks prior to starting my cuts (I know this is not exactly conventional).  I have never felt good throughout the process but was feeling the best I'd felt in a while on the Valium 15 mg daily.  Was able to sleep up to 7 hrs in a row.  I take my Valium 3 times daily and cut 1 mg off the middle of the day dose.  That very first night of my cut sleeping became worse.  The next day I had chills, decreased appetite, intermittent shortness of breath, tremors.  My heart always has the sensation of pounding but was in the 80s and 90s until this morning, now up to low 100.  My question was this too large a cut, should I just hold and wait it out until I stabilize and make a 0.5 mg cut the next go around? Or do I need to updose?  I hate to do that.  My doc wanted me to start cutting 1 mg every week but I'm thinking I need at least 2 weeks between cuts and probably smaller.  Any input? I don't think I'm ready to start micro tapering yet.  This is my first experience with the valium cuts so I'm not sure what to expect.  How much symptoms are too much?  Do they get better?

 

Why not microtaper?  I did C&H from 15 down to 9, .5 every 2 weeks.  That means each cut was less than 5%.  I had significant sxs after each cut that lasted 36-48 hours.  But at 9mg, even a .5 cut was intolerable.  So anything over 5% seems to have been more than I could tolerate.  When I started my microtaper, things went smoothly with only occasional mild sxs.  If I had to do it all over again, I would microtaper from the beginning.

 

IMO, the problem with C&H is its the cut that causes the WD sxs.  The hold period is just the time you choose to recover from the shock of the cut.

[[li...]]

Not tapering atm.

 

Is there any history of people switching to diazepam, and going back to their original drug after weeks/months ? How did they do ?

I am considering diazepam, but it may not work and I'm pretty kindled already. That lorazepam thing was awful.