Valium/Diazepam Support Group

[Guest [mo...]]

So here I am at 1.85mg of V and in a four day wave with cortisol surges all night long--

This feels like the 10% drops I use to do.  Someone tell this gets better pleazzzzze.  These are those moments in REM deprivation when your brain starts telling you ridiculous stories that I know better than to believe but I guess it's nice to hear from one who is beyond this that this does in fact get better.  If I tell my doctor that I am sick from tapering V and am at 1.85mg, they look at you like you are a head case.  Unfortunate.

 

It does get better.  I've been in your spot between 2mg and 1mg so many times.  Hold and let it pass.  When you feel better or at your baseline continue your cut.  It does get better yogi.  I am feeling my pre benzo body come back.  It's very subtle but you'll know.

 

I second this.

It does get better.

 

I used adrenal cocktail for the surges at night, one cup of fresh orange juice ( not from concentrate ). Then add 1/4 teaspoon pink Himalayan salt and 1/4 teaspoon cream or tartar.

Here is why:

 

Stress causes the adrenal glands to fire off adrenaline. This gives you a burst of energy to deal with stressful situations. Adrenaline also raises the heart rate, increases respiration, dilates the pupils, slows down digestion and causes muscles to contract. It’s like caffeine on steroids!

 

So if you are stressed or upset it can be impossible to fall asleep, but why does it always wake you up at 3am?

 

3am is when your liver regenerates. To do so, it needs glycogen. The problem is that adrenaline causes your cells to use up glycogen. So if you are often stressed, your body may not have enough glycogen for the liver to regenerate at 3am. If your liver cannot get the glycogen it needs, your adrenal glands will compensate by releasing adrenalin, which is why you are wide awake and ready for action, not exactly a state you want to be in at 3am.

 

Thanks Moodle, I will go buy some cream of tartar and oranges today.  It gets crazy. It seems like it cycles with no rhyme or reason.  I will be cruising along doing my drop every few days with only one wake-up at 3am and can usually get myself back down with deep breathing, and maybe 3 calmes forte.  When the surge hits, nothing helps, hopefully your formula will make a difference. 

 

Thank you for helping me out in your time of turmoil.  I just read on your blog of your troubles with family and especially brother.  I hope you getting the support you need to get through this difficult time. 

thanks again sweetheart

 

Here it is Tex, I hope it works for you. I have started doing it two times a day.

[[Te...]]

well sorry to say my neurologist knows next to NOTHING when it comes to these drugs.

 

he tried to tell me that within ONE month of coming off Zoloft I would have no w/d effects!!!!

 

anyway he has me coming BACK in on Monday to have EEG leads placed AGAIN and then I go home and wear them for 2 days...the EEG that was done in office was fine...but he says that's 30  minutes out of an entire day and just to rule out any seizure activity.

 

so I get to walk around like Frankenstein next week. Will scare my grandkids to death when they see me.

 

also he wants me to start Amitriptyline at night to see if that helps..Not going to start that until I get results of EEG. May not start it at all if this is all w/d

I am going to switch out .125mg Lorazepam for 1mg Diazepam tonight...will hold that for a week and then try another .125mg off that same dose with another 1mg on

 

that way I will be even with all lorazepam doses .25mg 4xs a day...so I can start with the tapering

 

going to MT .001 every other day to start (kgirl suggestion)  and see how I do. I will have to eventually go to all diazepam since DR is not willing to allow me to do partial c/o..but want to cut from loraz as much as possible before I go to all diazepam..

 

of course all this can change over night knowing me

so that's that. another Dr who knows less then I do...how sad

 

I know your feeling, I spend only 5 minutes with my doctor, just to get the prescription, they dont know anything, the last time she offered me zolof, prozac and others like candy.

 

they just want the insurance money, they dont care.

 

how sad. 

 

Tex

 

 

[[Te...]]

Dear Yogi,

Thanks for the " adrenal cocktail for the surges at night, one cup of fresh orange juice ( not from concentrate ). Then add 1/4 teaspoon pink Himalayan salt and 1/4 teaspoon cream or tartar."

 

I will try today, the 3 am theory make sense, hope I can fix this sleep problem.

 

The  thing is that Orange make my acid reflux to start makin noise in my stomach

 

we'll see

 

Tex

 

[[Ju...]]

I am on 2mg Ativan ( given for insomnia), taken as one dose at night. Been taking it for 3 years. I have just started to get some tolerance withdrawal symptoms for 3 weeks.... weakness anxiety.

 

I have now stated to split my dose. ....and am trying to find a way to stabilize before I begin my Ashton slow, slow taper. My Dr is supportive, and has given me a prescription at a compounding pharmacy for a measured liguid  Ativan taper.

 

Here is my question....should I try to taper off Ativan?? Or am I better off switching to Valium, and then doing a taper

 

A scared but hopeful newbie

 

Tango,

If you can go down to 1 mg Ativan then cross over to 10 mg valium, then  do slow taper.

 

my 2 cents.

 

Tex

 

Tango (scared and hopeful newbie just like I was a few weeks ago, and still am...)

 

I second what Tex says, having been in very similar shoes to you up until about April this year, taking Ativan every night. Definitely 100% can recommend doing a crossover to Valium (best decision I've made all year) because it's soooo much easier to reduce it in small amounts and therefore have smaller side effects. Like others may have already told you, Ativan is way stronger than Valium so even just 1mg of Ativan is equal to 10mg of Valium, according to the taper I'm on anyway.

 

Ativan is so easy to build a tolerance to, and by the sound of it it's no longer helping you, it's also capable of making things worse long term. You won't regret taking slow and steady steps to free yourself from it, it will require patience and strength but you'll be one thousand times better off it than on it.

 

The longer I stayed on Ativan daily, the worse things got. Ativan makes you yo-yo up and down but Valium lasts longer per dose and so it's generally smoother and steadier.

 

It's like getting off one fast "Ativan" wild horse on a very bumpy scary ride and that horse can't slow down without kicking you off, but with Valium you're switching onto another fast horse that is capable of slowing down safely (because you can reduce your dose in much smaller amounts at a time whenever you feel ready) with more manageable (and still sometimes scary, but still manageable) bumps.

 

That's just my personal experience, but some others on this website have had very similar Ativan experiences. It's meant to be taken as a one-off medication for shock or post traumatic experiences but for some reason gets prescribed in an "as needed" way which is dangerous, but... ahh, don't get me started on that haha

 

Anyway, with the support of the people on this website you will definitely not be alone in this and we'll get you through it. And you're going to be free of this if you choose to be brave and patient and willing.

 

Tell us anything that's on your mind, no question is too silly believe me. I've been writing all sorts of random stuff to the benzo buddies on here this month since I joined and they've been so patient and helpful.

[[Mo...]]

I am on 2mg Ativan ( given for insomnia), taken as one dose at night. Been taking it for 3 years. I have just started to get some tolerance withdrawal symptoms for 3 weeks.... weakness anxiety.

 

I have now stated to split my dose. ....and am trying to find a way to stabilize before I begin my Ashton slow, slow taper. My Dr is supportive, and has given me a prescription at a compounding pharmacy for a measured liguid  Ativan taper.

 

Here is my question....should I try to taper off Ativan?? Or am I better off switching to Valium, and then doing a taper

 

A scared but hopeful newbie

 

Tango,

If you can go down to 1 mg Ativan then cross over to 10 mg valium, then  do slow taper.

 

my 2 cents.

 

Tex

 

Tango (scared and hopeful newbie just like I was a few weeks ago, and still am...)

 

I second what Tex says, having been in very similar shoes to you up until about April this year, taking Ativan every night. Definitely 100% can recommend doing a crossover to Valium (best decision I've made all year) because it's soooo much easier to reduce it in small amounts and therefore have smaller side effects. Like others may have already told you, Ativan is way stronger than Valium so even just 1mg of Ativan is equal to 10mg of Valium, according to the taper I'm on anyway.

 

Ativan is si easy to build a tolerance to, and by the sound of it it's no longer helping you, it's also capable of making things worse long term. You won't regret taking slow and steady steps to free yourself from it, it will require patice and strength but you'll be one thousand times better off it than on it.

 

The longer I stayed on Ativan daily, the worse things got. Ativan makes you yo-yo up and down but Valium lasts longer per dose and so it's generally smoother and steadier. It's like getting off one fast "Ativan" wild horse on a very bumpy scary ride and that horse can't slow down without kicking you off, but with Valium you're switching onto another fast horse that is capable of slowing down safely (because you can reduce your dose in much smaller amounts at a time whenever you feel ready) with more manageable (and still sometimes scary, but still manageable) bumps.

 

That's just my personal experience, but others on this website have had very similar Ativan experiences. It's meant to be taken as a one-off medication for shock or post traumatic experiences but for some reason gets prescribed in an "as needed" way which is dangerous, but... ahh, don't get me started on that haha

 

Anyway, with the support of the people on this website you will definitely not be alone in this and we'll get you through it. And you're going to be free of this if you choose to be brave and patient and willing.

 

Tell us anything that's on your mind, no question is too silly believe me. I've been writing all sorts of random stuff to the benzo buddies on here this month since I joined and they've been so patient and helpful.

 

I agree with Tex, as well.

If you can tolerate tapering from your current benzo, you can just do that .

For me, Ativan was too short acting and for me as well, and I couldn't taper below 1 mgr.

It helps most people to split their doses into 3 , sometimes even 4 doses to avoid inter dose  withdrawal. (Increased symptoms between doses, kinda).

 

Most people substitute only a part of their dose with liquid, by the way.

For example, if you're in 10 mgr Valium, you'd replace only 1 mgr for liquid and take the rest in pill form , as you're used to .

 

 

[[li...]]

laineyk,

 

Doctors knowing less than us ... that's also my experience, and it seems to be the rule rather than the exception.

 

Doctors simply haven't studied health problems caused by (stopping) prescription drugs. It's 'not an illness' (or so they think!).

[[Ju...]]

For Tex, MountainYogi and all of us who are currently in nasty waves that include awful insomnia, nausea and panic amongst other things... hold tight fellow "wave surfers", I know it's really yucky and frustrating especially when it comes after a good patch of feeling mostly normal. It may not be much to offer you but here's what I've learned this week to help me with some of the strongest waves I've been hit with lately (and sorry if it's quite looong but please bear with me in case this helps just ONE person):

 

Wednesday night this week I was on the bathroom floor crying and throwing up in a very unexpected (but most likely sleep/diet/stress/withdrawl related) panic attack and had two kids (not mine, I was actually doing a temp Nanny job at night) ... so yeah, someone elses bathroom floor too.. having a horrible panic attack and feeling my thoughts go absolutely dark and thinking "this will never end, I can't handle this hell" but then I sat up and washed my face and thought "try what that physio suggested even though it sounds lame"

 

First I took increased amounts of the natural supplements I sometimes take... and I don't know if this will work for you guys but it's worth a shot. I took three natural ginger tablets, one high dose vitamin B (the combination of those two together is really good for nausea when I can't hold down any food or drink), and then 2 of these strong natural sleep supplements from the health store, they have magnesium, lactium, and morello cherry too which apparently helps melatonin or something... started to feel slight improvements with the nausea but was still having awful anxiety, so ... next step.

 

I learned from a really helpful, but patient benzo-informed physio this week that during panic and insomnia our carbon dioxide levels with our breathing get way out of balance and cause our brain to go into freakout mode even more and as simple as this technique sounds its really been getting me through the worst moments at night:

 

1) first, the psychological step, because its a combination of mind and body both contributing and fueling each other: I put on headphones with either white noise or wave sounds or rain sounds .... whatever works to calm your heartbeat and give you the feeling of having something external to focus on, as cheesy as it sounds it actually really works in switching your brain out of fear mode bit by bit.... and THEN

 

2) this is the physiological bit: I find a pillow or blanket or sweater... any fabric that is soothing and I hold it up to my mouth and breathe through it, three counts in, three counts out... for as long as it takes.

 

And honestly I was the biggest skeptic when she told me to do this because I said "that won't help me when I'm in that deep, it's a drop in the ocean, it will be useless when I'm in the middle of a wave that strong" and she said Give it a chance, it balances out your stomach and brain with the supplements, your mind with the earphones and water sounds, and your carbon dioxide levels get restored as you breathe through the fabric", and I personally find pillows best because then you have something to grab onto as you breathe too... relieves the stress just that tiny bit more, and I thought I'd just put this out there in case it helps anyone.

 

Me, the biggest cynic of things like meditation and vitamins when I'm drowning amidst huge waves. It's actually working for me though, and I hope it works for someone else, we're all desperate to get some sleep right now, even just an extra half hour than the previous night is PROGRESS.

 

3) Lastly, I've started keeping note of all the small improvements, and again this sounds a tad lame but its helping to shift my perspective in the middle of a yucky wave or a bad night: I take note of the smallest improvement and keep a list, for example "only had nausea for 2 hrs this time instead of 7hrs" or "slept an extra 40 mins than the previous night" ... any little success is progress and gives a tiny bit of hope in the horrible times, remembering how many of these waves you have survived and the fact that you're still standing.

 

Summary: Breathing through fabric, health shop supplements for nausea and sleep, documenting the tiniest improvements really does give some much needed encouragement, and focusing on water sounds (or even water itself, running it over your hands)... give it a try. If it works, hooray. If not, something else will... try as many things as possible.

 

It's 80% about sensory modulation when you're in that horrible "red zone" and your brain is in free fall terror, it's being driven by fear hormones rather than rational thoughts, and those rational thoughts come from a different part of our brain which seems to shut down when the "fear" part is taking the reigns so... take small steps to reduce that sensory overload so that it has less and less power, take ANY step in regaining control of your sensory stuff: new sound, new texture or temperature, new distraction, changing little things, reducing your sensory stimulation so that your mind no longer believes it's in fight or flight mode...

 

...and then it's amazing how your brain goes "oh you're breathing in more carbon dioxide so that must mean we're not in danger any more? okay..." and starts balancing out on it's own once it's back in safe mode. Try it. Takes about 20-30 mins breathing into that fabric. Silly brain. But clever brain too.

[Guest [mo...]]

laineyk,

 

Doctors knowing less than us ... that's also my experience, and it seems to be the rule rather than the exception.

 

Doctors simply haven't studied health problems caused by (stopping) prescription drugs. It's 'not an illness' (or so they think!).

Why would big Pharma advocate for doctors learning how to get people off drugs. You would think that would be part of the pharmacology curriculum, but it's not.  Look to see who gives the greatest endowments to these med schools and for that matter, who started allopathic medical schools in this country.  The only thing I have heard consistently on this forum and a plethora of blogs is that once you are showing symptoms of withdrawal, you are mentally ill and need another pill or two--and most people end up lifers  o this class of drugs. It all comes down to the money for the medical mafia. I am constantly in awe of the success stories on this forum.

[[Ju...]]

laineyk,

 

Doctors knowing less than us ... that's also my experience, and it seems to be the rule rather than the exception.

 

Doctors simply haven't studied health problems caused by (stopping) prescription drugs. It's 'not an illness' (or so they think!).

 

Absolutely. But there is hope, fortunately.

 

I was told by a lovely woman in her 60's that knowledge is from reading books or information, but wisdom comes from life experience and listening to the right people, and... from failures that we haven't let beat us.

 

Some doctors (and people in general) just have knowledge, often recycled from whatever they've been told ... and they also have their focus on the daily quotas to reach for example, in New Zealand the doctors are paid to see each person for a maximum of 15 mins unless they have been referred to a specialist.

 

Other people have both knowledge and wisdom. Or are still learning, if willing, to increase whichever one is lacking.

 

And thirdly comes a mix of maturity and humility which I am definitely lacking in, haha. My learning curve. But hopefully in another 30 years I'll be like the woman I mentioned who is a major role model for me.

 

And hopefully the doctors out there who are rare but do exist, who have both knowledge AND wisdom from experience, AND/or a willingness to listen and learn, will become more prominent in their field, and more accessible. I've met two, as opposed to at least six previous doctors who just read off the screen in front of them and then put me in the "too hard" basket with two of those telling me I was an addict and unstable. But wise doctors exist luckily.

 

And I don't know if I'm allowed to mention this on here but the benzo specialist doctor who I'm seeing now has started a national benzo battle which has ended up causing ripples and upsetting certain pharmaceutical companies. She's been sending letters to the former doctors and psychiatrists of the people in her benzo withdrawl clinic.

 

Also, I've read about a woman in America who is filming a documentary called "As Prescribed" about benzo withdrawl survivors, which has yet to be released but is also making certain big companies nervous. Some of you may have heard of it?

[Guest [mo...]]

For Tex, MountainYogi and all of us who are currently in nasty waves that include awful insomnia, nausea and panic amongst other things... hold tight fellow "wave surfers", I know it's really yucky and frustrating especially when it comes after a good patch of feeling mostly normal. It may not be much to offer you but here's what I've learned this week to help me with some of the strongest waves I've been hit with lately (and sorry if it's quite looong but please bear with me in case this helps just ONE person):

 

Wednesday night this week I was on the bathroom floor crying and throwing up in a very unexpected (but most likely sleep/diet/stress/withdrawl related) panic attack and had two kids (not mine, I was actually doing a temp Nanny job at night) ... so yeah, someone elses bathroom floor too.. having a horrible panic attack and feeling my thoughts go absolutely dark and thinking "this will never end, I can't handle this hell" but then I sat up and washed my face and thought "try what that physio suggested even though it sounds lame"

 

First I took increased amounts of the natural supplements I sometimes take... and I don't know if this will work for you guys but it's worth a shot. I took three natural ginger tablets, one high dose vitamin B (the combination of those two together is really good for nausea when I can't hold down any food or drink), and then 2 of these strong natural sleep supplements from the health store, they have magnesium, lactium, and morello cherry too which apparently helps melatonin or something... started to feel slight improvements with the nausea but was still having awful anxiety, so ... next step.

 

I learned from a really helpful, but patient benzo-informed physio this week that during panic and insomnia our carbon dioxide levels with our breathing get way out of balance and cause our brain to go into freakout mode even more and as simple as this technique sounds its really been getting me through the worst moments at night:

 

1) first, the psychological step, because its a combination of mind and body both contributing and fueling each other: I put on headphones with either white noise or wave sounds or rain sounds .... whatever works to calm your heartbeat and give you the feeling of having something external to focus on, as cheesy as it sounds it actually really works in switching your brain out of fear mode bit by bit.... and THEN

 

2) this is the physiological bit: I find a pillow or blanket or sweater... any fabric that is soothing and I hold it up to my mouth and breathe through it, three counts in, three counts out... for as long as it takes.

 

And honestly I was the biggest skeptic when she told me to do this because I said "that won't help me when I'm in that deep, it's a drop in the ocean, it will be useless when I'm in the middle of a wave that strong" and she said Give it a chance, it balances out your stomach and brain with the supplements, your mind with the earphones and water sounds, and your carbon dioxide levels get restored as you breathe through the fabric", and I personally find pillows best because then you have something to grab onto as you breathe too... relieves the stress just that tiny bit more, and I thought I'd just put this out there in case it helps anyone.

 

Me, the biggest cynic of things like meditation and vitamins when I'm drowning amidst huge waves. It's actually working for me though, and I hope it works for someone else, we're all desperate to get some sleep right now, even just an extra half hour than the previous night is PROGRESS.

 

3) Lastly, I've started keeping note of all the small improvements, and again this sounds a tad lame but its helping to shift my perspective in the middle of a yucky wave or a bad night: I take note of the smallest improvement and keep a list, for example "only had nausea for 2 hrs this time instead of 7hrs" or "slept an extra 40 mins than the previous night" ... any little success is progress and gives a tiny bit of hope in the horrible times, remembering how many of these waves you have survived and the fact that you're still standing.

 

Summary: Breathing through fabric, health shop supplements for nausea and sleep, documenting the tiniest improvements really does give some much needed encouragement, and focusing on water sounds (or even water itself, running it over your hands)... give it a try. If it works, hooray. If not, something else will... try as many things as possible.

 

It's 80% about sensory modulation when you're in that horrible "red zone" and your brain is in free fall terror, it's being driven by fear hormones rather than rational thoughts, and those rational thoughts come from a different part of our brain which seems to shut down when the "fear" part is taking the reigns so... take small steps to reduce that sensory overload so that it has less and less power, take ANY step in regaining control of your sensory stuff: new sound, new texture or temperature, new distraction, changing little things, reducing your sensory stimulation so that your mind no longer believes it's in fight or flight mode...

 

...and then it's amazing how your brain goes "oh you're breathing in more carbon dioxide so that must mean we're not in danger any more? okay..." and starts balancing out on it's own once it's back in safe mode. Try it. Takes about 20-30 mins breathing into that fabric. Silly brain. But clever brain too.

thank you JustDo for writing all of this while tapering and in a wave

I am on the breathing into a blanket technique tonight!!!!

[[so...]]

Lorazepam to diazepam crossover advice (no taper)

 

I already posted this on the substitition taper plans board and was invited by Challis99 to also post here if I received no response.

 

I am in a bit of a unique situation and in need of advice of those with experience. I have been on lorazepam 0.5 mg 3x daily for a couple of years now. It was prescribed for anxiety, but the fortunate side effect of it was that I did not suffer any vertigo attacks for that entire duration, when they had been a major issue for me previously. I do not know if it is BPPV or Meniere's or possibly even both, but I have come to believe that benzos are an effective treatment for that very difficult issue for me, and I may well need them for the rest of my life. I am OK with that if that is the case. I understand the risks versus benefits, and with everything I'm going through, I am valuing quality of life over everything else.

 

The anxiolytic effects wore off after 4-6 months but I kept taking the lorazepam out of fear of switching to something new. I decided to taper on my own, and over a period of six months, I was able to cut 1/4 of a pill per month, leaving me at 1.5 pills per day, or a total of 1.5 mg. I had to take 1/4 of a pill every few hours to keep from feeling the withdrawal effects.

 

This last cut was the most difficult for me. I started having panic attacks daily, which were not a symptom previously. I'm more GAD and PTSD, just generalized fear of every damn thing, not panic disorder. In the meantime, I had to have an emergency appendectomy followed by another emergency room visit where I was diagnosed with a 3 mm complex ovarian cyst (currently a watch-and-wait situation). Needless to say, all of this stress has taken a great toll on me.

 

I ended up having a vertigo attack this past Sunday, and I don't think it's a coincidence. I finally did some additional research on switching to diazepam and I have begun the process of that. It relieved the vertigo almost immediately and made me feel human again, at least for a while.

 

Now, my goal at this point is no longer to taper, but rather just to cross over from lorazepam to diazepam. I have found many positive long-term reviews for diazepam use for vertigo sufferers as well as for anxiety, and I've come to the conclusion that I may in fact just need to rely on a benzo for life. And if so, it might as well be diazepam, due to the long half life and stability. I am not an addict, have never taken more than prescribed, and am not seeking a high, just balance.

 

I'm about two and a half days into my crossover and mostly feeling much better. I had about an hour of derealization/depersonalizarion earlier today though, which really scared me. It was preceded by several hours of shaking in my core, sort of in my stomach area. At first I was afraid that I am crossing over too quickly, but I feel such relief when I take the diazepam. I also had these derealization experiences before starting the diazepam. Several over the past month.

 

I'm thinking that the shakes and derealization are actually caused by the lorazepam withdrawal, since I'm not stable on my current dose anyway. I'm guessing that most who cross over are stable already. I don't know that I could stabilize on lorazepam at all at this point. I think my tolerance is too high.

 

If that's the case, should I be cutting back at all on the lorazepam in this first week? Would it be more wise to just add in the diazepam and let that take care of the withdrawal symptoms, and then next week cut back a little on lorazepam when I increase the diazepam dose? I am miserable and my only goal right now is comfort.

 

I should note that they gave me additional benzos in the hospital because my anxiety was out of control before surgery. On the lorazepam, I have fluctuated between a total of 1.5 mg daily and 2 mg daily since returning home, just depending on whether or not I'm having a night of panic attacks. I'm confused right now as to whether I should simply take the 2 mg daily or try to go back to 1.5, but honestly the latter idea sounds foolish to me when I know full well that I am in withdrawals right now and that's what I'm trying to avoid.

 

For the diazepam, I have been taking 2.5 mg nightly for two evenings so far, and this morning I took 2.5 mg as well even though I hadn't planned to add a morning dose until next week. The shakes were just too much and I desperately needed the relief. I didn't do a loading dose at all, but I am thinking that I should perhaps pop an extra 1.25 mg of diazepam (1/4 of my 5 mg pills) when I get the shakes rather than an extra .125 mg of lorazepam which isn't really doing anything.

 

Note that I metabolize medicines very quickly. I feel the effects of the diazepam in 5-10 minutes and the full effect is there within 20-30 minutes.

 

Thoughts? Am I on the right track here? I need to get back to work in two weeks and need to feel stable as soon as possible. Thank you in advance for your kind words of advice, and please note that I have health-related anxiety, so please try not to tell me too many frightening scenarios which can send me down the rabbit hole of Google searches, leading to more fear. I know all the bad stuff already. I'm just looking for positive help now. And remember that this is presently just a crossover, not a taper, though I am not completely ruling that out in the future depending on my results with the vertigo. Thank you!

 

Edit:

I thought I would post an update since there have been no responses so far. I am still taking 0.5 mg of lorazepam 2x per day (actually cut into quarters and taken every couple of hours just to keep it steady, probably unnecessary but it makes me feel better psychologically since this has been a difficult process) and I'm now taking 2.5 mg of diazepam 3x daily. Other than being very tired, I am beginning to feel normal again. My present plan (if my doctor approves, and I should know something about that tomorrow) is to gradually increase to 10-15 mg daily of diazepam while I cut 1/4 of a lorazepam each month until I'm off them. I want to cover any and all lorazepam withdrawal symptoms if at all possible. Quality of life is the goal right now. Again, for those who perhaps didn't read the full text above, I have no plans to then taper from diazepam because I am planning to stay on it for life to control my vertigo and/or Meniere's symptoms. I feel like I'm on the right track. My balance is pretty good already after that attack (it normally would not have returned so soon) and my moods are much more stable. I am dealing with a family member in the hospital who just had his last rites, so I am indeed quite fragile right now, but compared to a week ago, I'd say I'm 80% better. Thoughts, advice?

[[be...]]

Solanceandpeace, read your post with interest. first I am sorry that a loved one is not doing well, and I well know how this can feel. I am 68 1/2 yrs young, and I have  Meniere's disease, usually this affects one ear, and  well I have always been a little different, I was told after much testing, that I was one of the few that had it affecting both ears. Well because I was working then, about 30yrs ago, and I was almost literally falling into my patients beds with them, I was placed on Valium. It helped a lot, I also had surgery on one ear, but because I had high stressors, a job that required a lot from me, and a Mother that was sick for 5yrs before her death. It did not, cure me of this disease, I have had to learn how to deal with it, everyday can be different and sometimes I am just fine, not dizzy at all, I will never be able to walk a straight line. I have taken the Valium 5mg in the morning and 5mg in evening, and it has helped some, and at times, nothing helps, I just walk the walls, meaning my body is up against a wall, and that is how I stay upright, and then I hold on to other objects. I will not drive or go for long walks,and when I am stressed from everyday things,and tired, it can hit me and it may be that way for 2-3 days. So I  know how badly you can feel. Sometimes when we have a chronic disease, especially one that turns you upside down, we just want relief. Now to get to why I joined BB, After years of taking Valium, I did not like how my ENT Doctor treated me, I do not need to have someone I trusted with my life accuse me of selling the V, and to say this out in front of staff and other patients, and also I did not like how when  I needed a refill, I was so tense and worried that he would just drop me, as I had already done my homework, to know what could happen with cold turkey of this drug. He rushed me into tapers that went too fast and cut too much and after two failed attempts, I had enough of him, and wanted my life back, it might not be perferct and I still have problems, but I can deal and know what I must do to feel almost normal. So before I left him, I talked to my GP, and explained how I felt and he agreed that I should try a slower taper,and he was ok, for me to take what I was taking, at the time I was on 2.5mg, and just the fact that he was not judging me and allowed me to decide, I never went back to the ENT Doctor. But for me, there is always the fear, that this older benzo, will be taken off the market,and I might have to take another one, and because I am older, I know the risk of falls increase with this drug, and mainly because I now know that the V was only a bandaid for me, it helped some, but I realized that like diabetes, I will have this for the rest of my life, and I have Accepted it and I do not want to keep taking something that is never going to take this away. I am currently doing a lig taper with water and vodka, and I started at 2mg, and have been doing it for about 13 days or so, I have decided when I get to the 1mg mark, I will decide if I will stop there and take it as a maintance dose. but I will probably continue to get off of it. I have been lucky this being my third taper attempt, I have went slow and have only had mini sx's, for that I am thankful. So I can understand why you want to stay with a benzo, and I have no judgement against you, and I learned a long time ago, that we all must walk the way we feel is best for us, it may not be the path that all will choose, but that is why we have a mind, and freedom to use it. With benzo's there is no quarantee that we will not ever have problems with these class of drugs,and that they will stop helping us at any given time. I wish you well, and I know just how you feel when you are dizzy. You have come to a really good site, the BB here are all so generous with their Support and good advise, and you will get answers to some of your questions. I am hoping that you will find the answers you need, and you will get reply's here. Best to you, and always know that we all have something in our lives at any given time, that is not always pleasant, but at least we have Today to make the most of, even if we do not feel good. Peace to you. 

[[be...]]

Solace,also want to add, that yes there are many horror stories on some of the posts here at BB, but that is the way they can cope, and if I want I read their stories to help me keep my perspective about things, also I know how to read more uplifting stories too, the thing about BB, we all have a Story, and we all need to have Support and Kindness, and I have felt that way, only one person, follows me around and tries, to break my spirit but I can handle it, as I know they are miserable and so I pray and brush off my shoulders. Here on this site, everyone uses humor, to get their point across, and although they are suffering they get up each day and struggle through it with dignity. So I am sure that someone will help you with your crossover, and will help guide you. Hang in there. 

[[Te...]]

For Tex, MountainYogi and all of us who are currently in nasty waves that include awful insomnia, nausea and panic amongst other things... hold tight fellow "wave surfers", I know it's really yucky and frustrating especially when it comes after a good patch of feeling mostly normal. It may not be much to offer you but here's what I've learned this week to help me with some of the strongest waves I've been hit with lately (and sorry if it's quite looong but please bear with me in case this helps just ONE person):

 

Wednesday night this week I was on the bathroom floor crying and throwing up in a very unexpected (but most likely sleep/diet/stress/withdrawl related) panic attack and had two kids (not mine, I was actually doing a temp Nanny job at night) ... so yeah, someone elses bathroom floor too.. having a horrible panic attack and feeling my thoughts go absolutely dark and thinking "this will never end, I can't handle this hell" but then I sat up and washed my face and thought "try what that physio suggested even though it sounds lame"

 

First I took increased amounts of the natural supplements I sometimes take... and I don't know if this will work for you guys but it's worth a shot. I took three natural ginger tablets, one high dose vitamin B (the combination of those two together is really good for nausea when I can't hold down any food or drink), and then 2 of these strong natural sleep supplements from the health store, they have magnesium, lactium, and morello cherry too which apparently helps melatonin or something... started to feel slight improvements with the nausea but was still having awful anxiety, so ... next step.

 

I learned from a really helpful, but patient benzo-informed physio this week that during panic and insomnia our carbon dioxide levels with our breathing get way out of balance and cause our brain to go into freakout mode even more and as simple as this technique sounds its really been getting me through the worst moments at night:

 

1) first, the psychological step, because its a combination of mind and body both contributing and fueling each other: I put on headphones with either white noise or wave sounds or rain sounds .... whatever works to calm your heartbeat and give you the feeling of having something external to focus on, as cheesy as it sounds it actually really works in switching your brain out of fear mode bit by bit.... and THEN

 

2) this is the physiological bit: I find a pillow or blanket or sweater... any fabric that is soothing and I hold it up to my mouth and breathe through it, three counts in, three counts out... for as long as it takes.

 

And honestly I was the biggest skeptic when she told me to do this because I said "that won't help me when I'm in that deep, it's a drop in the ocean, it will be useless when I'm in the middle of a wave that strong" and she said Give it a chance, it balances out your stomach and brain with the supplements, your mind with the earphones and water sounds, and your carbon dioxide levels get restored as you breathe through the fabric", and I personally find pillows best because then you have something to grab onto as you breathe too... relieves the stress just that tiny bit more, and I thought I'd just put this out there in case it helps anyone.

 

Me, the biggest cynic of things like meditation and vitamins when I'm drowning amidst huge waves. It's actually working for me though, and I hope it works for someone else, we're all desperate to get some sleep right now, even just an extra half hour than the previous night is PROGRESS.

 

3) Lastly, I've started keeping note of all the small improvements, and again this sounds a tad lame but its helping to shift my perspective in the middle of a yucky wave or a bad night: I take note of the smallest improvement and keep a list, for example "only had nausea for 2 hrs this time instead of 7hrs" or "slept an extra 40 mins than the previous night" ... any little success is progress and gives a tiny bit of hope in the horrible times, remembering how many of these waves you have survived and the fact that you're still standing.

 

Summary: Breathing through fabric, health shop supplements for nausea and sleep, documenting the tiniest improvements really does give some much needed encouragement, and focusing on water sounds (or even water itself, running it over your hands)... give it a try. If it works, hooray. If not, something else will... try as many things as possible.

 

It's 80% about sensory modulation when you're in that horrible "red zone" and your brain is in free fall terror, it's being driven by fear hormones rather than rational thoughts, and those rational thoughts come from a different part of our brain which seems to shut down when the "fear" part is taking the reigns so... take small steps to reduce that sensory overload so that it has less and less power, take ANY step in regaining control of your sensory stuff: new sound, new texture or temperature, new distraction, changing little things, reducing your sensory stimulation so that your mind no longer believes it's in fight or flight mode...

 

...and then it's amazing how your brain goes "oh you're breathing in more carbon dioxide so that must mean we're not in danger any more? okay..." and starts balancing out on it's own once it's back in safe mode. Try it. Takes about 20-30 mins breathing into that fabric. Silly brain. But clever brain too.

 

Thanks for your great help, this is really important to know, I like when someone share their techniques.  I will try them.

 

Hope you are OK today

 

Tex

 

:smitten:

[[Te...]]

Lorazepam to diazepam crossover advice (no taper)

 

I already posted this on the substitition taper plans board and was invited by Challis99 to also post here if I received no response.

 

I am in a bit of a unique situation and in need of advice of those with experience. I have been on lorazepam 0.5 mg 3x daily for a couple of years now. It was prescribed for anxiety, but the fortunate side effect of it was that I did not suffer any vertigo attacks for that entire duration, when they had been a major issue for me previously. I do not know if it is BPPV or Meniere's or possibly even both, but I have come to believe that benzos are an effective treatment for that very difficult issue for me, and I may well need them for the rest of my life. I am OK with that if that is the case. I understand the risks versus benefits, and with everything I'm going through, I am valuing quality of life over everything else.

 

The anxiolytic effects wore off after 4-6 months but I kept taking the lorazepam out of fear of switching to something new. I decided to taper on my own, and over a period of six months, I was able to cut 1/4 of a pill per month, leaving me at 1.5 pills per day, or a total of 1.5 mg. I had to take 1/4 of a pill every few hours to keep from feeling the withdrawal effects.

 

This last cut was the most difficult for me. I started having panic attacks daily, which were not a symptom previously. I'm more GAD and PTSD, just generalized fear of every damn thing, not panic disorder. In the meantime, I had to have an emergency appendectomy followed by another emergency room visit where I was diagnosed with a 3 mm complex ovarian cyst (currently a watch-and-wait situation). Needless to say, all of this stress has taken a great toll on me.

 

I ended up having a vertigo attack this past Sunday, and I don't think it's a coincidence. I finally did some additional research on switching to diazepam and I have begun the process of that. It relieved the vertigo almost immediately and made me feel human again, at least for a while.

 

Now, my goal at this point is no longer to taper, but rather just to cross over from lorazepam to diazepam. I have found many positive long-term reviews for diazepam use for vertigo sufferers as well as for anxiety, and I've come to the conclusion that I may in fact just need to rely on a benzo for life. And if so, it might as well be diazepam, due to the long half life and stability. I am not an addict, have never taken more than prescribed, and am not seeking a high, just balance.

 

I'm about two and a half days into my crossover and mostly feeling much better. I had about an hour of derealization/depersonalizarion earlier today though, which really scared me. It was preceded by several hours of shaking in my core, sort of in my stomach area. At first I was afraid that I am crossing over too quickly, but I feel such relief when I take the diazepam. I also had these derealization experiences before starting the diazepam. Several over the past month.

 

I'm thinking that the shakes and derealization are actually caused by the lorazepam withdrawal, since I'm not stable on my current dose anyway. I'm guessing that most who cross over are stable already. I don't know that I could stabilize on lorazepam at all at this point. I think my tolerance is too high.

 

If that's the case, should I be cutting back at all on the lorazepam in this first week? Would it be more wise to just add in the diazepam and let that take care of the withdrawal symptoms, and then next week cut back a little on lorazepam when I increase the diazepam dose? I am miserable and my only goal right now is comfort.

 

I should note that they gave me additional benzos in the hospital because my anxiety was out of control before surgery. On the lorazepam, I have fluctuated between a total of 1.5 mg daily and 2 mg daily since returning home, just depending on whether or not I'm having a night of panic attacks. I'm confused right now as to whether I should simply take the 2 mg daily or try to go back to 1.5, but honestly the latter idea sounds foolish to me when I know full well that I am in withdrawals right now and that's what I'm trying to avoid.

 

For the diazepam, I have been taking 2.5 mg nightly for two evenings so far, and this morning I took 2.5 mg as well even though I hadn't planned to add a morning dose until next week. The shakes were just too much and I desperately needed the relief. I didn't do a loading dose at all, but I am thinking that I should perhaps pop an extra 1.25 mg of diazepam (1/4 of my 5 mg pills) when I get the shakes rather than an extra .125 mg of lorazepam which isn't really doing anything.

 

Note that I metabolize medicines very quickly. I feel the effects of the diazepam in 5-10 minutes and the full effect is there within 20-30 minutes.

 

Thoughts? Am I on the right track here? I need to get back to work in two weeks and need to feel stable as soon as possible. Thank you in advance for your kind words of advice, and please note that I have health-related anxiety, so please try not to tell me too many frightening scenarios which can send me down the rabbit hole of Google searches, leading to more fear. I know all the bad stuff already. I'm just looking for positive help now. And remember that this is presently just a crossover, not a taper, though I am not completely ruling that out in the future depending on my results with the vertigo. Thank you!

 

Edit:

I thought I would post an update since there have been no responses so far. I am still taking 0.5 mg of lorazepam 2x per day (actually cut into quarters and taken every couple of hours just to keep it steady, probably unnecessary but it makes me feel better psychologically since this has been a difficult process) and I'm now taking 2.5 mg of diazepam 3x daily. Other than being very tired, I am beginning to feel normal again. My present plan (if my doctor approves, and I should know something about that tomorrow) is to gradually increase to 10-15 mg daily of diazepam while I cut 1/4 of a lorazepam each month until I'm off them. I want to cover any and all lorazepam withdrawal symptoms if at all possible. Quality of life is the goal right now. Again, for those who perhaps didn't read the full text above, I have no plans to then taper from diazepam because I am planning to stay on it for life to control my vertigo and/or Meniere's symptoms. I feel like I'm on the right track. My balance is pretty good already after that attack (it normally would not have returned so soon) and my moods are much more stable. I am dealing with a family member in the hospital who just had his last rites, so I am indeed quite fragile right now, but compared to a week ago, I'd say I'm 80% better. Thoughts, advice?

 

Solace,

The best thing that I did was to cross over to Valium, and to be here in BB, here I got the best help ever,  I learned  a lot,  also I got a great emotional support,  sorry that your are having those awful symptoms, my heart goes to you. 

Life events are part of the reason we ended taking Benzos,  we need to be strong and wait for the time to pass. 

I'm glad you are feeling better with Valium. 

 

Tex

 

:thumbsup:

 

 

 

 

[[fr...]]

  I also felt better initially with crossing to Valium.  I did a very slow, like 4 months crossover from 2.5mg. of Ativan.  I would cut a quarter pill and add the amount of Valium and then hold for a few weeks, thats why it took so long.  I felt much better but now after around 5 or more months on just Valium I'm having uti burning and mouth burning and some other s/x's but I am on other meds so don't know which it is but it seems since the V is the new one that would probably be the culprit.  Don't want to scare you as I think the crossover was good for me but all these drugs have side effects so be on the lookout.  HOpefully you will do fine and have a nice easy taper.  Good luck.

[[Kg...]]

Solace it seems that your question of how to cross over wasn't answered. I know Lainey is also doing a cross over and SG gave her the details of how to do it. I think it was on the micro tapering support group that he responded to her but I am not sure. I do know that  SG is on the micro taper board so I think I would go there (even though you are not tapering) and ask him how to do the cross over he is terrific and helps everyone.

 

Sorry to hear about your illness - vertigo is horrible.  I assume the exercises didn't help you - when I had vertigo from a virus that attacked my ear I had to do exercises every day- when I got it again the doctor wanted to RX me klonopin but it was the klonopin causing the vertigo.  So just know that a s/x of some benzos is actually vertigo especially when we go into tolerance (meaning you need a higher dose to get the same effect) on the dose of the drug we are on.  That is why so many of us are getting off -the benzo stops doing what is was prescribed for. 

 

 

[[la...]]

Hi, yes vertigo/dizziness is really bad for me that's why I need to go back to the diazepam

 

I was as of last night on 1.25mg  broken up into 4 doses

 

last night I exchanged .125mgs lorazepam off of bed dose for 1mg diazepam

 

I will hold that for a couple days and then c/o another .125mg lorazepam to diazepam

 

I to metabolize quickly so I have to be aware that it will take time for the diazepam to build up.

 

I was good at 15mg diazepam over a year ago but started cutting every 2 weeks .5mgs and it caught up to me fast.

if you read my hx you will see how I gave up and that's what landed me on lorazepam  big mistake

 

I am here Solace and you can PM me anytime...

 

I am supposed to have 48 hour EEG done starting Monday to Wednesday although the one done in the office was clear and normal... this neurologist who I think has his head up his you know where just is grabbing at straws

 

my dizziness has been an issue most of my life off and on before benzos...so to think I am having seizures is sorta stupid

 

I do not have menieres  have seen ENT and may go back to him but all I can say is that my dizziness has gotten 100% worst since being on the lorazepam and coming off Zoloft

 

no easy way that's for sure...but slow c/o is a really good idea

[[be...]]

Solace, I did not answer how to do a crossover, because I do not know how to do that, I just wanted to let you know that I have empathy for you and what you are going through. See how everyone is embracing you, you will get the right direction. 

[[la...]]

Solace,,, I am sorry I did not address the c/o

 

the way I did it b4 was Reg Pearts method

 

so 1st I would need to see how often and at what times you dose and of what and how much

 

 

here is an example

 

6:00am                      11:00am                      4:00pm                        10:00pm

 

.25mg Loraz                .25mgs L                        .25mg L                      .5mg L

 

same                          same                              same                      .25mgL/2.5mgD

hold for three days

 

same                            same                            same                              5mg D

hold for three days

 

then you do the same with the other doses except once you are on all diaz. morning and night then you combine day doses into one for that c/o

 

hope this makes sense  if not let me know  been here done that

[[Mo...]]

Solace,

I'm not able to really help with a detailed cross over at the moment. I'm not on on a regular basis I think.

But back in beginning 2014( I believe ) I had a different user name and we started a Cross Over to Valium support group. I not think it gets much traction lately but you might want to read there because there's tons of people who started a cross over to Valium back then, too.

I also followed Peart cross over schedule .

 

I will leave you with a link to a post I made about my cross over schedule,

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=101814.msg1309840#msg1309840

 

Hope you'll find some clarity there ...

If you'd post, I'm sure someone will chime in again....

 

Wishing you well,

Moo

[[la...]]

Moo, question...where are you in your taper? I see there is nothing in your sig... I remember we started at about the same time but I foolishly gave up this past March and now I am at square one again

 

I was going to do a slow c/o this time but then I read your old post and see I am dosing the exact same times you were....

 

I want to c/o to the least amount that will give me relief..

 

any suggestions?

[[Mo...]]

Moo, question...where are you in your taper? I see there is nothing in your sig... I remember we started at about the same time but I foolishly gave up this past March and now I am at square one again

 

I was going to do a slow c/o this time but then I read your old post and see I am dosing the exact same times you were....

 

I want to c/o to the least amount that will give me relief..

 

any suggestions?

Hi,

 

I jumped about 6 weeks ago, Lainey.

 

I just know that Crossing over to a lesser amount to save time tapering, is not going to save time at all.

I couldn't tolerate the Ativan a day longer and did a quicker cross over. It took me around 17 days if I'm correct. It's been over a year and a half and my memory isn't always the best yet when it comes to recalling the start of my taper. It's kinda blurry, but I just read some things back on the Cross over thread. Wow...

 

I'd say don't rush it. That's the most important one for me, I think, next to crossing over to the right amount of Valium. Which to me is 1 mgr Ativan is 10 mgr of Valium.

If I'm honest, I don't think I recall anyone did great when crossing over to a lesser amount and in the end, it's not saving you time but will call for holds, dose corrections, etc.

I don't have any more evidence for that than anecdotal evidence from our buddies here.

Since Valium will need some time to cover your Ativan wd symptoms  as well, it would probably be helpful not to push it. A few weeks extra  isn't long if it'll make it more tolerable .

 

That's my two cents, Lain.

Cross over at a speed that's tolerable , adjust if necessary and then stick with it.

 

My best...

[[so...]]

Thank you everyone for your thoughtful and insightful posts! I am replying via my phone so I can't do individual replies, but I hope you know how much I appreciate each and every one. The one thing I would like to clarify is that my vertigo issues began years before I started benzos. I am not expecting full control of that from valium, but the lorazepam has drastically changed the way I feel when it comes to the daily dizziness and I see that valium has done the same for many people on a long term or lifelong basis, so it's my hope that it will do the same for me and that my doctor will be on board with my plans.

 

My crossover has been more of a doubling up, just due to the fact that I needed to stabilize and get out of withdrawals. The two months of withdrawals while recovering from surgery, having vertigo attacks, and potentially losing a loved one... it was just too much and I felt that I was legitimately on the verge of a seizure. So I am still on 1 mg of lorazepam daily (no cut) and now an additional 7.5 mg of diazepam daily. Stupid of me? Maybe. But I followed the way my body felt, and gradually increased each day. I'm wanting to stay at 10 mg daily for at least a month before I start very slowly cutting the lorazepam, and potentially take as much as 15 mg of diazepam in the end. Whatever works.

 

It is hard for me to accept the idea of staying on a benzo for life, but to be frank, I don't know how long life will be. I was just diagnosed with a complex ovarian cyst, and while not likely to be anything serious, I'm just facing the reality that quality of life is now more important to me than length of life. I'm 34, which I realize is young, but I've been through a lot and I'm tired. I just want to enjoy the days that I can enjoy and not let the anxiety and vertigo control my life anymore. I also know that valium is the easiest to taper from should that situation arise for any reason, so I feel that's a smart choice if I have to stick with one. Right now I'm feeling a little better every day, almost normal now except for some stress-induced nightmares that are a bit exascerbated by switching drugs (very typical for me).

 

Thank you for your input, I am open to more, and very grateful for your support and kind words!

[[Mo...]]

Thank you everyone for your thoughtful and insightful posts! I am replying via my phone so I can't do individual replies, but I hope you know how much I appreciate each and every one. The one thing I would like to clarify is that my vertigo issues began years before I started benzos. I am not expecting full control of that from valium, but the lorazepam has drastically changed the way I feel when it comes to the daily dizziness and I see that valium has done the same for many people on a long term or lifelong basis, so it's my hope that it will do the same for me and that my doctor will be on board with my plans.

 

My crossover has been more of a doubling up, just due to the fact that I needed to stabilize and get out of withdrawals. The two months of withdrawals while recovering from surgery, having vertigo attacks, and potentially losing a loved one... it was just too much and I felt that I was legitimately on the verge of a seizure. So I am still on 1 mg of lorazepam daily (no cut) and now an additional 7.5 mg of diazepam daily. Stupid of me? Maybe. But I followed the way my body felt, and gradually increased each day. I'm wanting to stay at 10 mg daily for at least a month before I start very slowly cutting the lorazepam, and potentially take as much as 15 mg of diazepam in the end. Whatever works.

 

It is hard for me to accept the idea of staying on a benzo for life, but to be frank, I don't know how long life will be. I was just diagnosed with a complex ovarian cyst, and while not likely to be anything serious, I'm just facing the reality that quality of life is now more important to me than length of life. I'm 34, which I realize is young, but I've been through a lot and I'm tired. I just want to enjoy the days that I can enjoy and not let the anxiety and vertigo control my life anymore. I also know that valium is the easiest to taper from should that situation arise for any reason, so I feel that's a smart choice if I have to stick with one. Right now I'm feeling a little better every day, almost normal now except for some stress-induced nightmares that are a bit exascerbated by switching drugs (very typical for me).

 

Thank you for your input, I am open to more, and very grateful for your support and kind words!

 

I'm sorry to hear about your difficulties.

I did want to say that I've had a very complex ovarian cyst and was just fine after Rubicam removal.

Mine were actually two, twisted around my ovary and wrapped up together. And I happened to be pregnant when this came to the surface. So I had surgery while being four months pregnant.

Cysts in itself are benign and they can do a whole lot, as you can see..

Don't lose hope on anything.

 

You'll be able to taper off, too if you really follow through.

 

I see you're saying you're on 7.5 mgr Valium now.

And 1 mgr Ativan.

If you want to replace the 1 mgr Ativan with Valium, you'll end up at 17.5 mgr though.

I didn't get your calculation.

Then again, it's 1:30 am where I am and I'm seriously tired.

 

It would help the rest of us if you'd create a signature , so people can see where you're at and what you're on, so they can help out better, too.

I know... I don't have ,y signature up right now, because I'm making a new one.

( I jumped about 6 weeks ago.)

 

Be well,

Moo