Valium/Diazepam Support Group

[[...]]

Hi all, I am wanting to do a small c/o to diazepam to help with my cuts from loraz.

 

I am desperate to have info on how to do this. I did Reg Pearts total c/o from clonazepam to diaze. before but that's not what I want to do.

 

I just want to add a little diaz. so when I am off loraz the cutting will be easier off the diaz.

 

If anyone has the time and can help me I would be so appreciative.

 

 

this is  my schedule of dosing now...have made 2 cuts from 1.5mg to 1.25mg. last cut was 4 weeks ago

 

6:00am    .25mg L

 

11:00am  .25mg L

 

4:00pm    .25mg L

 

10:00pm  .5mg L

 

I would like to have the diaz added to morning and bedtime dose...  want to go slow and keep it very small as I will continue to cut.

 

 

any ideas on how to do this?

 

Lainey, how to you measure and cut doses?  Liquid or scale?

[[mo...]]

 

I second this.

It does get better.

 

I used adrenal cocktail for the surges at night, one cup of fresh orange juice ( not from concentrate ). Then add 1/4 teaspoon pink Himalayan salt and 1/4 teaspoon cream or tartar.

Here is why:

 

Stress causes the adrenal glands to fire off adrenaline. This gives you a burst of energy to deal with stressful situations. Adrenaline also raises the heart rate, increases respiration, dilates the pupils, slows down digestion and causes muscles to contract. It’s like caffeine on steroids!

 

So if you are stressed or upset it can be impossible to fall asleep, but why does it always wake you up at 3am?

 

3am is when your liver regenerates. To do so, it needs glycogen. The problem is that adrenaline causes your cells to use up glycogen. So if you are often stressed, your body may not have enough glycogen for the liver to regenerate at 3am. If your liver cannot get the glycogen it needs, your adrenal glands will compensate by releasing adrenalin, which is why you are wide awake and ready for action, not exactly a state you want to be in at 3am.

 

Moodle - Thanks for sharing that info!

 

I eat a half piece of whole wheat and oat toast slathered with raw honey and salted almond butter at night to deal with cortisol surges...just curious to know what the cream of tartar does and if the orange juice is a better way to try and get glycogen to the liver and does that make a better adrenal cocktail?

 

Thanks!

 

Mo

[[Mo...]]

 

I second this.

It does get better.

 

I used adrenal cocktail for the surges at night, one cup of fresh orange juice ( not from concentrate ). Then add 1/4 teaspoon pink Himalayan salt and 1/4 teaspoon cream or tartar.

Here is why:

 

Stress causes the adrenal glands to fire off adrenaline. This gives you a burst of energy to deal with stressful situations. Adrenaline also raises the heart rate, increases respiration, dilates the pupils, slows down digestion and causes muscles to contract. It’s like caffeine on steroids!

 

So if you are stressed or upset it can be impossible to fall asleep, but why does it always wake you up at 3am?

 

3am is when your liver regenerates. To do so, it needs glycogen. The problem is that adrenaline causes your cells to use up glycogen. So if you are often stressed, your body may not have enough glycogen for the liver to regenerate at 3am. If your liver cannot get the glycogen it needs, your adrenal glands will compensate by releasing adrenalin, which is why you are wide awake and ready for action, not exactly a state you want to be in at 3am.

 

Moodle - Thanks for sharing that info!

 

I eat a half piece of whole wheat and oat toast slathered with raw honey and salted almond butter at night to deal with cortisol surges...just curious to know what the cream of tartar does and if the orange juice is a better way to try and get glycogen to the liver and does that make a better adrenal cocktail?

 

Thanks!

 

Mo

 

Hi Mo,

 

It's because :

The Adrenal Cocktail is made up of ingredients that replenish vital organs and stabilize glucose levels.

 

-Fresh squeezed orange juice gives the liver glucose it needs to regenerate.

-Cream of tartar is high in potassium, an element that is essential for the sodium/potassium balance in cells, vital organs (liver), muscles, nerves, and the digestive system.

-Himalayan salt, contains 84 essential minerals and elements found in the human body, helping feed the adrenals and refresh body’s the sodium/potassium pump.

 

Hope that helps.

I'm not sure if it's better than toast and raw honey and the almond butter .

I'd say the raw honey would do the trick for glucose . I'm not sure about the kind of salt used in your almond butter. The pink Himalayan so salt is recommended due to the minerals in it.

 

If your toast works for you, I'd keep it. Can't hurt to try. It's all good stuff, right ?

I couldn't tolerate gluten well during the brunt of my taper. So the toast would be out for me.

 

Hope you're doing ok.

[[mo...]]

 

I second this.

It does get better.

 

I used adrenal cocktail for the surges at night, one cup of fresh orange juice ( not from concentrate ). Then add 1/4 teaspoon pink Himalayan salt and 1/4 teaspoon cream or tartar.

Here is why:

 

Stress causes the adrenal glands to fire off adrenaline. This gives you a burst of energy to deal with stressful situations. Adrenaline also raises the heart rate, increases respiration, dilates the pupils, slows down digestion and causes muscles to contract. It’s like caffeine on steroids!

 

So if you are stressed or upset it can be impossible to fall asleep, but why does it always wake you up at 3am?

 

3am is when your liver regenerates. To do so, it needs glycogen. The problem is that adrenaline causes your cells to use up glycogen. So if you are often stressed, your body may not have enough glycogen for the liver to regenerate at 3am. If your liver cannot get the glycogen it needs, your adrenal glands will compensate by releasing adrenalin, which is why you are wide awake and ready for action, not exactly a state you want to be in at 3am.

 

Moodle - Thanks for sharing that info!

 

I eat a half piece of whole wheat and oat toast slathered with raw honey and salted almond butter at night to deal with cortisol surges...just curious to know what the cream of tartar does and if the orange juice is a better way to try and get glycogen to the liver and does that make a better adrenal cocktail?

 

Thanks!

 

Mo

 

Hi Mo,

 

It's because :

The Adrenal Cocktail is made up of ingredients that replenish vital organs and stabilize glucose levels.

 

-Fresh squeezed orange juice gives the liver glucose it needs to regenerate.

-Cream of tartar is high in potassium, an element that is essential for the sodium/potassium balance in cells, vital organs (liver), muscles, nerves, and the digestive system.

-Himalayan salt, contains 84 essential minerals and elements found in the human body, helping feed the adrenals and refresh body’s the sodium/potassium pump.

 

Hope that helps.

I'm not sure if it's better than toast and raw honey and the almond butter .

I'd say the raw honey would do the trick for glucose . I'm not sure about the kind of salt used in your almond butter. The pink Himalayan so salt is recommended due to the minerals in it.

 

If your toast works for you, I'd keep it. Can't hurt to try. It's all good stuff, right ?

I couldn't tolerate gluten well during the brunt of my taper. So the toast would be out for me.

 

Hope you're doing ok.

 

Thanks for that quick answer! I never thought about potassium and did not know that cream of tartar is high in that element or that it was part of a good adrenal cocktail and OJ would provide sugar and a little potassium as well, I believe. I have some of the Himalayan pink salt on hand and will start using it to salt my almond butter (I make my own). I worry a bit about the acidic OJ at night since my tummy is queasy a lot, plus I love the raw honey and have convinced myself it's healthy so I think I'll stick to my toast, but it is really helpful to know more about all this.

 

So far I'm still hanging in there through all this, just going s-l-o-w-l-y, thank you vey much!

 

Mo

[[Ju...]]

I find this 3am discussion really intriguing, and definitely relate to getting woken up at that time on a regular basis and hate it. Never knew it was related to the liver, so thank you for explaining that! I may need to find a slightly different approach than orange juice though, because unfortunately my biggest side effect (aside from huge waves of anxiety and crazy thoughts about doom  ) is usually vomitting and I have even started cutting all dairy, sugar, meat, acidic foods, greasy foods after 1 or 2pm each day. For some reason I can handle them between 7am and 1-2pm (IF I haven't already been throwing up overnight) but since I started keeping my afternoon and evening meals much simpler I've had almost no nausea and zero throwing up ... touch wood. Something wrong with my digestion nights and afternoons are way more sensitive and I can't figure out why, but I think orange juice would be too acidic for me, perhaps I could mix honey with cream of tartar and just put a tiny bit on my tongue at a time? Any food or drink taken after I've already got waves of cortisol and panic keeping me on edge just leads to me running for the nearest bucket. Has me nervous most nights as I go to bed thinking "is it going to happen tonight?" So now every night I have brown rice and steamed veges, then two magnesium tablets and sometimes natural ginger tablets... Seems to be working. Despite it being very antisocial and boring to eat that during Christmas dinner

[[la...]]

SG, I cut the .5mg pills in 1/2 and then when need to cut that in half.. I have gram scale if needed

[[...]]

SG, I cut the .5mg pills in 1/2 and then when need to cut that in half.. I have gram scale if needed

 

If you want to cross smoothly the gram scale works well for that.

[[la...]]

SG, so I was thinking that tonight I would cut .125mg from bed dose and add 1mg diazepam

 

I can do this and then next cut would be from bed dose again so all doses then would be equal

 

after that is where I am all messed up because I want to add diazepam to morning and bed dose only

[[...]]

SG, so I was thinking that tonight I would cut .125mg from bed dose and add 1mg diazepam

 

I can do this and then next cut would be from bed dose again so all doses then would be equal

 

after that is where I am all messed up because I want to add diazepam to morning and bed dose only

 

How much V did you want to end up with?

[[Ju...]]

Moodle, I hope you get a break from the nasty surges soon. Sometimes a good cry is the only way to let out all the tension and anxiety, even though it isn't fun at all. Feel better  And hopefully something comes along that provides a really good distraction during a time when your usual distractions aren't quite working. I'm inspired by how much you're supporting people on here even though you feel yuck. Thank you 

[[la...]]

SG, I would LOVE to just have 1mg 2xs a day but I know that may not be possible...so 4mgs max?

[[...]]

SG, I would LOVE to just have 1mg 2xs a day but I know that may not be possible...so 4mgs max?

 

Okay.  If I were doing this and I had a scale I'd probably begin by swapping .25mgV for .025mgA each day until I got to 4mgV, so it might take about eight days.  I'd probably dose the V twice a day at 11am and bedtime and keep dosing the A as is.  I would not cut anything while crossing.

[[Mo...]]

Moodle, I hope you get a break from the nasty surges soon. Sometimes a good cry is the only way to let out all the tension and anxiety, even though it isn't fun at all. Feel better  And hopefully something comes along that provides a really good distraction during a time when your usual distractions aren't quite working. I'm inspired by how much you're supporting people on here even though you feel yuck. Thank you 

 

Thank you...

Hope you're doing as well as can be.

It's not forever, even thigh it feels like it. And it does get so much better.

[[la...]]

SG....that's not an equal dose Loraz- diaz...so I essentially would be cutting if I c/o that way

 

[[la...]]

.25mg V is approx. equal to .1mg of lorazepam

[[la...]]

 

 

Okay.  If I were doing this and I had a scale I'd probably begin by swapping .25mgV for .025mgA each day until I got to 4mgV, so it might take about eight days.  I'd probably dose the V twice a day at 11am and bedtime and keep dosing the A as is.  I would not cut anything while crossing.

 

ahh read your #'s wrong...so how would I get .025mg of lorazepam?  I have .5mg pills of Loraze.  I can get .25mg diaz easily with 2 mg pills but have no idea how to get .025mg of loraz

 

Am I just an idiot?

[[...]]

SG....that's not an equal dose Loraz- diaz...so I essentially would be cutting if I c/o that way

 

.25mg V is approx. equal to .1mg of lorazepam

 

I've always gone by 1mgA=10mgV.  Your equivalency is 1mgA=2.5mgV.  That's quite a difference.  I think the 1/10 one is the one that will keep you from being shorted since you are going to V.

[[la...]]

may I ask did you taper from klonopin all the way down or did you c/o to V

[[...]]

ahh read your #'s wrong...so how would I get .025mg of lorazepam?  I have .5mg pills of Loraze.  I can get .25mg diaz easily with 2 mg pills but have no idea how to get .025mg of loraz

 

Am I just an idiot?

 

Tell me how much your .5mgA and 2mgV pills weigh and I can tell you what each .001g on your scale is worth.

[[...]]

may I ask did you taper from klonopin all the way down or did you c/o to V

 

I crossed to V at ~27mg.

[[la...]]

ok will go pull out the old scale...but wouldn't just taking .125mg away from the Ativan and adding 1mg of diazepam be ok?  that is to start with of course

 

[[...]]

ok will go pull out the old scale...but wouldn't just taking .125mg away from the Ativan and adding 1mg of diazepam be ok?  that is to start with of course

 

.125mgA is 10% of your total dose so to swap that in one shot would be okay, but it would be smoother to do a few percent at a time.  Also, by Ashton's tables .125mgA needs to be replaced by 1.25mgV so you would be shorting yourself, although equivalencies do vary.

[[la...]]

when I c/o before I did the Peart c/o  and I tend to want to lean on the global equivalent chart...but I can always add more V in if needed.

 

 

so I think that's what I will do is take .125mg off night dose  .5mg-.125mg = .375mg

add 1mg Valium and see how I feel......will hold that for however long my body says to and then try adding some into morning dose and taking away Ativan from that dose too.

 

hopefully that will suffice and I will not need to do a complete c/o but I am willing to if that's what it will take

 

just have wasted so many years doing this...need to get serious now

 

guess I should read your hx SG and see how you made it out

[[ta...]]

I am on 2mg Ativan ( given for insomnia), taken as one dose at night. Been taking it for 3 years. I have just started to get some tolerance withdrawal symptoms for 3 weeks.... weakness anxiety.

 

I have now stated to split my dose. ....and am trying to find a way to stabilize before I begin my Ashton slow, slow taper. My Dr is supportive, and has given me a prescription at a compounding pharmacy for a measured liguid  Ativan taper.

 

Here is my question....should I try to taper off Ativan?? Or am I better off switching to Valium, and then doing a taper

 

A scared but hopeful newbie

[[mr...]]

I am on 2mg Ativan ( given for insomnia), taken as one dose at night. Been taking it for 3 years. I have just started to get some tolerance withdrawal symptoms for 3 weeks.... weakness anxiety.

 

I have now stated to split my dose. ....and am trying to find a way to stabilize before I begin my Ashton slow, slow taper. My Dr is supportive, and has given me a prescription at a compounding pharmacy for a measured liguid  Ativan taper.

 

Here is my question....should I try to taper off Ativan?? Or am I better off switching to Valium, and then doing a taper

 

A scared but hopeful newbie

Hi Tango and welcome.

That is a really difficult question to answer.

Ativan is so fast acting that holds don't help and the only way down is straight.

Switching to valium can make the taper much easier because it has a much longer half life and builds up in the system.

This allows holds to build up and lower sx's when they get out of hand.

However, there is no guarranty that the valium will cover all the ativan sx's and valium can cause new sx's as you go down.

2mg ativan = 20mg valium.

Some might taper the ativan down to a lower dose valium equvelant and then, cross over to valium and taper.

Some have directly tapered off ativan successfully.

Maybe others can provide more info.