Tenacious Tinnitus Club – Ear Pressure, Noise and Hyperacusis

[[Bi...]]

READ THE WHOLE THING  GOOD READ!

http://www.dizziness-and-balance.com/treatment/drug/drugrx.html

 

SOME HIGHLIGHTS

 

This pharmacological  review is written at a continuing medical education level. A more comprehensive but older version of this article can be found in print: Hain TC, Uddin M. Pharmacological treatment of vertigo. CNS Drugs 17(2):85-100, 2003. There is also an updated chapter on this subject in press (Yacovino and Hain, 2012).

 

Pharmacology

There are at least four major neurotransmitters of the vestibular system involved in the "three neuron arc" between the vestibular hair cells and oculomotor nuclei that drives the vestibulocular reflex. There are also a host of other neurotransmitters which modulate function. Glutamate is the major excitatory neurotransmitter (Serafin et al, 1992). Acetylcholine (ACH) is both a peripheral and central agonist affecting muscarinic receptors. Receptors found in the pons and medulla, presumably those involved with dizziness, are almost exclusively of the M2 subtype (Barton et al, 1994). Gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA) and glycine are inhibitory neurotransmitters found in connections between second order vestibular neurons and onto oculomotor neurons (Spencer et al, 1992). Stimulation of the two types of GABA receptors, GABA-A and GABA-B, have similar effects on vestibular pathways (Neerven et al, 1989), but specific GABA-B agonists, such as baclofen, decrease the duration of vestibular responses in animal models (Cohen et al, 1987).

 

The circuitry by which several other neurotransmitters affect vestibular responses is less well understood. Histamine is found diffusely in central vestibular structures and centrally acting antihistamines modulate symptoms of motion sickness (Takeda et al, 1989). Both the H1 and H2 subtypes of histamine receptors affect vestibular responses (Serafin et al, 1992). The H3 receptor is an autoreceptor and thus affects H1 and H2. The H4 receptor affects primary vestibular neurons (Desmadryl et al, 2012).

 

Norepinephrine is involved centrally in modulating the intensity of reactions to vestibular stimulation (Wood, 1979) and also affects adaptation. Dopamine affects vestibular compensation, and serotonin is involved with nausea.

 

Serotonin receptors are also found in the vestibular nerve, but the functional significance of this uncertain (Ahn and Balaban, 2010). Withdrawall from serotonergic drugs, such as SSRI antidepressants, is commonly associated with vertigo the tinnitus. It has been speculated that this is due to loss of inhibition of glutamate -- in other words, increased vestibular responses as glutamate is excitatory (Smith PF, Darlington CL, 2010).

[[Dr...]]

So, are they saying that a "normal" brain naturally keeps the neurotransmitter, Glutamate, at an amount so low that it does not excite the GABA receptors. But since we here are trying to get away from these terrible drugs by decreasing the amounts feeding into the brain, the addictive response of the drug, which is trying to remain active in the host, our brain, has caused an increase in the amount of Glutamate, whereby exciting the GABA receptors and causing them to vibrate along with this excitement... and, hence, tinnitus becomes a part of our awareness? 

Very good find Birdman. You are really something.

[[Bi...]]

So, are they saying that a "normal" brain naturally keeps the neurotransmitter, Glutamate, at an amount so low that it does not excite the GABA receptors. But since we here are trying to get away from these terrible drugs by decreasing the amounts feeding into the brain, the addictive response of the drug, which is trying to remain active in the host, our brain, has caused an increase in the amount of Glutamate, whereby exciting the GABA receptors and causing them to vibrate along with this excitement... and, hence, tinnitus becomes a part of our awareness? 

Very good find Birdman. You are really something.

 

YES, it's the darn glutamate!! Our brains do not have enough glutamate inhibitors after the benzo's.

 

The drug Betahistine may be the key to surviving this ear pain during w/d.  It desensitizes the H3 receptors making them MUCH less sensitive to glutamate simulation. They say it takes 4 weeks to really start working as it's a co-reaction that does all the magic.  Betahistine is like 'Super Dramamine' but that only hits h1 receptors (weak)  Theoretically if you took enough betahiestine you would never get seasick or feel vertigo, ear pressure, hyperacusis and tinnitus and I had all four in cold turkey :sick:  I still can't shake the darn tinnitus totally :'(

 

I found Betahistine only in the Canadian mail order pharmaceutics and they also what a faxed in prescription from a doc. Hard to find in the USA

[[Bi...]]

Lot's of my old buddies are wondering why I jumped sideways.  99% of my withdrawal pain is extreme tinnitus (EXTREME - LOUD - PAINFUL)  If I did not have this problem I would have happily continued my taper.  Just to be clear, it was a move I made so I could stay in the taper game.  I reached a point where every cut gave me worse Ear Symptoms.  Just could not find peace in a taper at the bottom end. It's how I had to tackle this problem in the cross roads of hell.

[[Ne...]]

I can certainly relate to Birdman's statement that the TINNITUS is her major symptom. For me without that I would not have had any real complaints from 22 Mg's of Valium all the way to 1.50 but the cut to 1.25 was unbearable forcing me to up dose. What I learned from this thread and BB in general is that a slower symptoms based taper are required by some people. That on long holds the accumulated Valium is still leaving the body so they are not wasted time. When I tapered from 1.75 after up dosing from 1.25 I did a 30 day hold. That concept was incredibly new to me but my symptoms, all but the tinnitus, disappeared. I really was not sure where I was from 1.75 down to 1.12 as I used pieces of 5 mg tablets determined by weight. The 5 mg tabs averaged .167 so dividing by 5 1mg of Valium weighed about .033. I was higher at .035.

 

The cut to 1 mg has been difficult as my night time wake ups caused a return of TINNITUS with a vengeance. The days are more manageable but my experience is that nothing is predictable with this symptom. I am using 1/2 of a 2 mg brand Valium tablet to be more exact in my dosage. I plan 21 more days at 1 mg and will do a micro taper down.

 

Thankfully I do sleep using Meditation, Relaxation and Sleep Hypnosis off various you tube sites by setting up my laptop bedside and using ear buds. That has been a saver so far. I did receive a PM from some suggesting bioflavonoids saying that  they were not curative only helpful. I will look into a lot of things when I jump. Adding things now makes the unknown more unknown. SO FOR NOW THE SIREN IS BACK...whaling and pulsating but I am not reacting as I used to. I calmly go about my business and hope it will fade as I had three perfect days of no symptoms over the Memorial Day weekend.

I am praying for all who still suffer this most protracted of all symptom.

B

 

[[Dr...]]

Thanks for the prayers to all Needsome. I suppose there might be some miracle waiting to happen but I still have a feeling this tinnitus thing will never go away.

[[Ne...]]

Hi Dream, I just read a success story for the first time. I actually was speechless reading it and all I could do was post ditto to MYF's comment. SO if you get a chance read it and know nothing is PERMANENT...but while we are going through stuff it sucks. Hang in as I know you will be fine. I just wish I could give you the date but I can't.

Yes you in particular are in thoughts and prayers as I know this symptom cuts off your oxygen. Just hang tough.

Hugs to you and Birdie :smitten: :smitten:

[[Dr...]]

know you will be fine. I just wish I could give you the date but I can't.

 

Thank you so much Needs, You made me chuckle with that line.   That is so rare lately...like the last year or so. Now and then somebody on this BB ride does say something funny. Intentionally or not. 

And thank you for the hugs. Sure can use them. Right back at ya.    You take care.  :smitten:

[[Bi...]]

Hi,  We all get hit in different ways but my withdrawal ALL hit me in the ears.  The tinnitus and hyperacusis in the cochlea and the vertigo and balance issues in the vestibule.  I can some up my experience as 99% IN THE EARS and MAN it was rough.  Not just a simple sound, but a sounds that shake your soul and brain. This was VERY uncomfortable!!!.    IT'S all from LACK of GABAERGIC INHIBITION

 

Google  GABAERGIC INHIBITION  - -THIS IS WHAT'S got us.  Let's look for fixes now that we know what to look for.

 

https://www.google.com/search?newwindow=1&q=GABAERGIC+INHIBITION+cochlea&oq=GABAERGIC+INHIBITION+cochlea&gs_l=serp.12...8915.14131.0.16323.12.10.2.0.0.0.1504.8930.1j0j1j5-1j2j4j1.10.0.ecolh...0...1.1.45.serp..11.1.722.a18Ewvxnu_0

 

 

AND

 

https://www.google.com/search?newwindow=1&q=GABAERGIC+INHIBITION+vestibular&sa=X&ei=x0uFU9aDJ4m1yAS6zIIo&ved=0CCUQ7xYoAA&biw=1262&bih=694

[[Bi...]]

and that the caloric stimulation-induced LC neuronal inhibition is mediated by GABAA receptors located on the membrane of LC neurons. It is suggested that the suppressed activity of noradrenergic LC neurons is involved in the vestibulo-autonomic reflex.

 

Intersing,

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8705311

 

 

[[sn...]]

Hi Birdie. I hope you're still doing better. Sounds like you have done some research. Smart lady.

 

 

Snowy

[[Bi...]]

Hi Birdie. I hope you're still doing better. Sounds like you have done some research. Smart lady.

 

Snowy

 

Hi snowy,  I so scared I do research all the time :'( :'( :'(  It's hard to believe something that feels this life altering can ever go away on it's own.  Still trying to find help for me and all the others afflicted. This is a waste of time this whole benzo thing is.  I have healed SOOOO much but I always want more NORMALCY and an end to all this crap. BENZO'S SUCK!!!

[[Al...]]

Birdman,

 

Your right of course, Benzos suck!

 

I really hope you find some relief soon. I don't have bad Tinnitis right now but did experience it when I fell into acute withdrawal about a month back. I wouldn't wish it on even my worst enemy.

 

My heart goes out to you and I pray you and all those suffering from this will start to see improvements soon.  :thumbsup:

 

ATU

[[sn...]]

Hi Birdie. I hope you're still doing better. Sounds like you have done some research. Smart lady.

 

Snowy

 

Hi snowy,  I so scared I do research all the time :'( :'( :'(  It's hard to believe something that feels this life altering can ever go away on it's own.  Still trying to find help for me and all the others afflicted. This is a waste of time this whole benzo thing is.  I have healed SOOOO much but I always want more NORMALCY and an end to all this crap. BENZO'S SUCK!!!

I'm sorry Birdie. :'( :( How's the new plan working out? Are you doing well with it still? I hope...

[[Bi...]]

Hi Birdie. I hope you're still doing better. Sounds like you have done some research. Smart lady.

 

Snowy

 

Hi snowy,  I so scared I do research all the time :'( :'( :'(  It's hard to believe something that feels this life altering can ever go away on it's own.  Still trying to find help for me and all the others afflicted. This is a waste of time this whole benzo thing is.  I have healed SOOOO much but I always want more NORMALCY and an end to all this crap. BENZO'S SUCK!!!

I'm sorry Birdie. :'( :( How's the new plan working out? Are you doing well with it still? I hope...

 

It was working good but I have to updose the oxy to almost 20mg a day and the baclofen to 65mg a day.  I am not looking forward to tapering that stuff :'(

 

The baclofen blocks most of the HIGH from the oxy by interfering with dopamine so at least I can work normally.  I get what I call EAR WAVES since most of my s/x is ear related, tinnitus, hyperacusis, balance, ear pain, ear buzzing, I do not even get anxiety on cuts, it ALL goes to my ears, I am so frustrated    :'(

 

Are you healing snowy?  What percent?  20%  60% ??

 

Hugs Birdie

[[sn...]]

Hi Birdie. I would say 75%  Most of my symptoms are anxiety related, but then again, I was wired before the benzos. 

 

I wish you felt better so we could go skydiving.  But seriously, It's been a long hard road for you. You never give up and you never will. That's why you're gonna win this fight. You will have better days. Its two steps forward, one step back. It sucks, but just remember how much further you are now from a year ago. You'll be cruising the strip in your 5 speed with carrot top in no time.

 

Your gonna be ok. I promise.

 

Love, Snowy

 

 

[[xe...]]

I've gotten very wary of narcotics. They're all on lists of being at least potentially ototoxic, and I have noted that I personally get severe spikes in high-pitched dental-drill type tinnitus which can last for days after a single dose of morphine or codeine.

 

Overall, though, I've been doing a lot better with this symptom overall for the past couple months at least. It's not that it's gotten better, exactly -- I just don't think about it very much. Last weekend I was on a hike and there were no people around at all, no traffic noise, almost no airplanes -- just the gentle noise of the light wind in the trees. I noticed that my internal noises were vague enough to be difficult to pick out over that wind (which was not a loud sound, at all).

 

Sometimes it still drives me a little batty and I think about it too much; when I notice myself doing that I try to just use simple meditative techniques to redirect my mind.

 

Maybe it'll continue to get better, maybe not, but I'm pretty confident that if I live long enough I'll have some much worse problems at some point, so... c'est la vie. Bodies are icky and prone to breaking.

[[Bi...]]

Hi Birdie. I would say 75%  Most of my symptoms are anxiety related, but then again, I was wired before the benzos. 

 

I wish you felt better so we could go skydiving.  But seriously, It's been a long hard road for you. You never give up and you never will. That's why you're gonna win this fight. You will have better days. Its two steps forward, one step back. It sucks, but just remember how much further you are now from a year ago. You'll be cruising the strip in your 5 speed with carrot top in no time.

 

Your gonna be ok. I promise.

 

Love, Snowy

 

  Scott and I cruising the strip    that's a great idea. Just going out to a party again is something I have to work up to slowly.  I feel so helpless away from home these days. When I travel I get so scared being away from my support center (my home).  I can see how excess glutamate in our noggins drives people to agoraphobia :'(

[[Bi...]]

I've gotten very wary of narcotics. They're all on lists of being at least potentially ototoxic, and I have noted that I personally get severe spikes in high-pitched dental-drill type tinnitus which can last for days after a single dose of morphine or codeine.

 

Overall, though, I've been doing a lot better with this symptom overall for the past couple months at least. It's not that it's gotten better, exactly -- I just don't think about it very much. Last weekend I was on a hike and there were no people around at all, no traffic noise, almost no airplanes -- just the gentle noise of the light wind in the trees. I noticed that my internal noises were vague enough to be difficult to pick out over that wind (which was not a loud sound, at all).

 

Sometimes it still drives me a little batty and I think about it too much; when I notice myself doing that I try to just use simple meditative techniques to redirect my mind.

 

Maybe it'll continue to get better, maybe not, but I'm pretty confident that if I live long enough I'll have some much worse problems at some point, so... c'est la vie. Bodies are icky and prone to breaking.

 

I love your analogy's xerxes     My doc seems to think this will help me.  He believes in the 'RECYCLING' theory of addiction.  Think of a subway line.  In goes in a circle, if you want to get off in a station called let's call it 'BASELINE' you can get there two ways. 

 

1. You can back-track and goes backwards to get to 'BASELINE'

2. You can stay on the tram and go all the way around the track and get off at 'BASELINE'  (this involves a complex series of different drugs, basically replacing one addiction with another that is hopefully a lesser one and easier to get off)

 

My Doc see's thousands of addicts for all kinds of drugs and he noted too many times that people on benzo's could just quit the benzo's when they moved on to cocaine with no benzo withdrawal at all (off coarse they ended up in cocaine hell and had to deal with that)  This 'RECYCLING' theory of addiction seeks to balance brain chemistry with other drugs allowing the effected areas of the brain to rebuild. I have never felt better to tell the truth.  I would caution people not to try this without EXTREME medical care and professional monitoring!  It took many months of testing to get me hooked up to the right drugs for my symptoms which are 99% in the ears.  Other people here at BB do not have any tinnitus and the benzo hit other areas.  Benzo w/d is SO different for everybody.  My doc tried a lot of drugs that failed on me that may of helped others.  I like to put my experiences here as I know lots of doctors and researchers read posts here.  BB is a great receptacle of knowledge as I see it. Maybe one day some researcher somewhere will figure out how to help us all

 

 

 

[[Bi...]]

I have been taking betahistine of 2 days now.  No change in tinnitus, it does make me drowsy like Dramamine would, nice for an anxiety killer   They say it takes 4 weeks to work.  I will keep reporting if I don't fall asleep 

[[sn...]]

Hi Birdie. I would say 75%  Most of my symptoms are anxiety related, but then again, I was wired before the benzos. 

 

I wish you felt better so we could go skydiving.  But seriously, It's been a long hard road for you. You never give up and you never will. That's why you're gonna win this fight. You will have better days. Its two steps forward, one step back. It sucks, but just remember how much further you are now from a year ago. You'll be cruising the strip in your 5 speed with carrot top in no time.

 

Your gonna be ok. I promise.

 

Love, Snowy

 

  Scott and I cruising the strip    that's a great idea. Just going out to a party again is something I have to work up to slowly.  I feel so helpless away from home these days. When I travel I get so scared being away from my support center (my home).  I can see how excess glutamate in our noggins drives people to agoraphobia :'(

I'm sorry. But at least you don't have carrot phobia. A guy like that could be a good distraction.

[[Bi...]]

Hi Birdie. I would say 75%  Most of my symptoms are anxiety related, but then again, I was wired before the benzos. 

 

I wish you felt better so we could go skydiving.  But seriously, It's been a long hard road for you. You never give up and you never will. That's why you're gonna win this fight. You will have better days. Its two steps forward, one step back. It sucks, but just remember how much further you are now from a year ago. You'll be cruising the strip in your 5 speed with carrot top in no time.

 

Your gonna be ok. I promise.

 

Love, Snowy

 

  Scott and I cruising the strip    that's a great idea. Just going out to a party again is something I have to work up to slowly.  I feel so helpless away from home these days. When I travel I get so scared being away from my support center (my home).  I can see how excess glutamate in our noggins drives people to agoraphobia :'(

I'm sorry. But at least you don't have carrot phobia. A guy like that could be a good distraction.

 

True,,,   

[[pr...]]

i found this book about how to "Stop Your Tinnitus" on one of my favorite supplement sites:

 

[nobbc]http://www.sunfood.com/on-sale/all-sale-items/book-stop-your-tinnitus-by-phyllis-avery.html[/nobbc]

 

 

 

Edit:  deactivated commercial link

~Juliea

[[Bi...]]

i found this book about how to "Stop Your Tinnitus" on one of my favorite supplement sites:

 

[nobbc]http://www.sunfood.com/on-sale/all-sale-items/book-stop-your-tinnitus-by-phyllis-avery.html[/nobbc]

 

Thanks Pretty, I have spent so much money on tinnitus cures I have gotten gun shy about investing in more remedies.  I am pretty sure all we can do is wait and pray.  My doc said the best fix is ritalin treatment for a long term solution.  It makes it worse but when you quit he says it almost gone.  Ritalin is 3 months away, that's what they want me to take next after this treatment. I hope they know what they are doing.

 

Have a flu and 102 fever,, I feel like JUNK today  :sick: :sick: :sick:  (took some extra oxy )

 

 

 

 

Edit:  deactivated commercial link in quote

~Juliea

[[Ne...]]

I so scared I do research all the time :'( :'( :'(  It's hard to believe something that feels this life altering can ever go away on it's own.  Still trying to find help for me and all the others afflicted. This is a waste of time this whole benzo thing is.  I have healed SOOOO much but I always want more NORMALCY and an end to all this crap. BENZO'S SUCK!!!

Hi Lisa, Hope your flu is getting better. I think I need to just get off  the Valium and let nature take it's course. I have completed 8 days at 1 mg and am seriously thinking about a cut to .75 at the end of 14 days as nothing has changed for me all the way down from 22 mg's as far as my tinnitus is concerned. The night time wake ups are whaling sirens and the daytime has been very manageable. I can always up dose but I think prolonging the w/d with only the unchanged tinnitus as my only symptom in w/d is not allowing for complete healing. I sure do feel your frustration. Doc  :smitten: :smitten: