Please help!! Lowest ebb

[[Gu...]]

Hi guys,

            Things have really turned nightmarish for me of late, physically and mentally. I've had a lot of abdominal problems and nausea which I spoke of in a previous thread as I may have liver damage. No eveidence yet as blood tests have been normal. This has not been resolved. Worse I feel like I've been plunged into the deepest hell I couldn't have even contemplated. I'm suicidal, exhausted, incoherent and just can't think straight. Everything has been slowed down and I'm worried I've developed dementia. I can barely even type this post or remember how to spell. Driving is difficult and the DP/DR is so thick I can hardly recognize my family.

 

The worse aspect is my mood. This is no ordinary depression, I can hardly move. My only task at present is to care for my 15 month old son but I have trouble willing myself to move. I've tried a plethora of conventional AD's in the past and none have ever worked. I've found one the thing, the only thing, that does help but I don't know that its a very viable or long term answer.

 

When I was in the ER for my abdominal pain 3 days ago they gave me oxycodone 5mg, 30 tablets. I've been taking them as directed even though the abdominal pain has gone. The reason is they make me feel well enough to get through the day. Not high but well enough to stop envisaging my demise.. If I don't take them I'm literally bedridden and my wife can't go to work. We really need the money.

 

I know its not good to take oxycodone for non physical pain or mood disorders but I can promise you they're keeping me alive at present. They really are. I'm not better on them but atleast I can get through the day. Exercise, diet and all the usual suspects don't work for me (I'm too far gone for that) and benzo wd has made everything so much worse. It breaks my heart to need to pop oxycodone just to keep going for my beautiful son but its reality. My depression has never been even touched by anything except opiates which is why I have self medicated with painkillers since my mid 20s. I've tried every other conceivable solution and had tried to stay away from opiates this year but I'm only getting worse.

 

What should I do? Any advice would be wholly appreciated. I feel guilty about taking the oxycodone but the alternative may be suicide. It has stabilised me at present.

 

Its so bad that I can't express it because my vocabulary is now limited. I'm really on the verge of reinstating the valium because this is not working.

 

If I need the oxycodone to keep off the valium it sounds like switching addictions but its reality. I may seem like just another addict but I'm not. Without the oxycodone I'd probably be in an asylum now or worse. I have to hold it together for my family.

 

Should I look into methadone or suboxone because I can't keep taking oxycodone? Will they interfere with my 'recovery'.

 

Or should I just reinstate? This is ridiculous.

[[In...]]

Damn, sorry things are so rough at the moment Gussy. I've had a bit clearer head the past couple days but now within the last few hours the confusion along with "numb and dumb" brain are roaring back. It's so frustrating "living" like this. I totally understand the confusion you mention, it is constantly varying in intensity for me.

 

As for the other drugs all I can say is it is probably better for your health in the long run than reinstating valium. I've read others here taking suboxone, hopefully some of them can advise you a little better. If you can avoid any of it that would be best. I'm glad you are here and still working hard to recover from this for your family. Better times are coming Gussy, just hold on and let the days and weeks pass until you notice some healing has taken place. Take care 

[[Gu...]]

I feel like I've been cursed. There's no way benzo wd could do this.

[[Be...]]

I feel like I've been cursed. There's no way benzo wd could do this.

 

If benzo w/d didnt do this, what did? How were you before benzo use? Any problems or depression and such??

[[In...]]

I feel like I've been cursed. There's no way benzo wd could do this.

 

I know you don't believe it but benzo w/d is unlike anything else. Someday you will look back and realize how powerful these drugs are and how much they mess with your mind and body. It happens man, try to flow with the symptoms best you can until they fade. The more you fight it, the worse it feels. It won't go away, but at least you won't be adding fuel to the fire.  Have you ever watched any of the youtube videos? This guy took benzos fairly short time for heartburn and got all jacked up.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Icik3AI33V8

[[Te...]]

Everything you described sounds like benzo w/d to me. As for reinstating, you are almost three months out and that's just too far to go to give up and go back on the benzos. You're at a point where things will slowly begin to get better, believe it or not.

 

I was 3 months, 3 weeks into a cold turkey back in December 2011 and I took "rescue doses" here and there and they became more and more frequent until I just reinstated in January 2012. The entire time I was back on Valium I felt like crap. My self-esteem was low, I was irritable and didn't get along with anyone. In short, going back on the Valium just made my life worse.

 

I finally decided after being on Valium for all of 2012 that 2013 was going to be the year I finally stopped taking this crap, after beginning in 1998. In January 2013 I was at 30 mg. and began cutting 2.5 mg every couple of weeks until I was down to 2.5 mg. in May. I was pretty sick the whole time because I didn't know to do a slow taper. In a way, I'm glad I didn't know, because I'm sure I'd still be on that crap.

 

Anyway, I was so sick and just so tired of being a prisoner to Valium that I jumped c/t from 5 mg. on May 26. I'm now 135 days out -- right at 4.5 months. It's been a tough journey but I don't regret it. I'm slowly feeling better and better. I look back on 6-7 weeks out and I am so totally different than I was back then.

 

Hang in there. Trust me, reinstating after you are this far out just is not worth it. Eating the opiates isn't going to help, since you really don't want to swap one addiction for another. I love beer but I am very careful to not drink it to deal with a stressful situation, since it could possibly get me in the habit of drinking when I'm stressed out, and there's no way I want to become an alcoholic!

 

We all cure at different rates, and for most of us it seems to drag on and on, up and down, up and down, good to bad and back to good. Hang in there. The ONLY cure is the passage of time, which allow your brain and CNS to recover.

 

You can do it, one day, one hour if need be, at a time...

 

[[Gu...]]

Thanks guys.

 

I do have a history of depression but not like this. As I've pointed out so many times I was better on valium in everyway. I can't focus on anything, my cognition is shot and I can't find the right words. I can barely drive and probably shouldn't. I just can't go on like this. You have to be feeling pretty good to write a long rambling post and I can't. It feels like my brain has shut down.

 

Innadaze thanks for being there my friend but I don't think I can get out of this one. What if I don't improve?

 

Friends have actually said you need to either 'get better or pass away'. The way you are at the moment is only hurting your son.

 

I agree. Everyone says wait and you'll get better but thats pure and utter bullshit. Thats why so many people have to stay on benzo's for life. This kind of thing happens when they try to stop. I think I need to go back on.

[[Gu...]]

Its scary how bad my cognition has become in the last week. I had trouble even spelling 'cognition' and I used to pride myself on being articulate.

 

I know its not good to rely on the oxycodone but without it I can't function at all. My wife and I get no help. She has to go to work. I have to be well enough to care for my son and I've found that, short of going back on benzo's, only opiates help.

 

Should I try a longer acting opiate?

[[Te...]]

In a word: NO!

 

You CAN do this! Just make a point of getting through tonight. And then tomorrow, even if it's hour by hour.

 

There is no such thing as someone who needs to be on "benzos for life." Those are just people who give up and surrender to their addiction to these horrible pills...

 

 

[[In...]]

 

 

Innadaze thanks for being there my friend but I don't think I can get out of this one. What if I don't improve?

 

Friends have actually said you need to either 'get better or pass away'. The way you are at the moment is only hurting your son.

 

 

Sounds like your friends are not very well informed. What you are doing now is the best thing you could do for your son in the long run. It certainly is miserable in the short term, but do you want to be going through this later in life when it will only be more difficult with further years of benzo damage to repair? If your recovery goes anything like mine or hundreds of other BB you will be feeling some level of improvement in the next 3-6 months. Your basic level of functioning will improve slowly. Hang on the best you can.

[[Gu...]]

Tex,

      Its comforting to assume that only 'weak' individuals fail to get off their benzo's and if they'd only 'tough it out' they'd be right. That would be 'fair'.

 

But its simply not true. I've read and heard about many people (not on BB) who move heaven and earth to stay off benzo's but continue to deteriorate mentally and physically so end up reinstating even years later. They recover and never try to go off them again which is quite logical and understandable.

 

Some people don't get better and need to be on benzo's for the sake of their quality of life! The damage may have been done.

 

Why can't people here accept that?

 

What is the point of being perpetually sick, miserable and suicidal for the ideal of being benzo free.

 

I have no quality of life off valium and certainly did while on it.

[[In...]]

Some people don't get better and need to be on benzo's for the sake of their quality of life! The damage may have been done.

 

Why can't people here accept that?

 

What is the point of being perpetually sick, miserable and suicidal for the ideal of being benzo free.

 

I have no quality of life off valium and certainly did while on it.

 

I don't think people are able to accept it because the longer you take benzos, the worse it can get.

 

I will quote from your very first message on BB. This is what valium was doing to you, in your own words:

 

------------ "I must have hit tolerance withdrawal in mid 2012 and my life has been hell ever since with numerous ER visits. I had never suffered a panic attack before if that's what caused them. I then realised how evil benzo's are" ------------

 

So in your own words the benzos screwed you up. That is perfectly common. Getting off benzos is horror for many of us. We are here now doing it. Once we get past this, guess what, it's over! It is hard.

 

From you second message on BB:

 

---------------- "Unfortunately I was started on valium at around the same time and for some years the two worked rather well together. I was even able to run marathons, hold down a job and was quite functional. That is now a distant memory. Over time I became more anxious and agitated which I can see now was tolerance withdrawal to the valium." ---------

 

So if you are going to go back on valium you have to ask yourself how long "over time" until I start to feel more anxious and agitated again? Then you will have to consider if next time the valium will give you even higher anxiety and agitation. That is the choice you have before you. I don't have the same choice to make, benzo won't help me at all. Won't get me stable, only makes me feel like hell. I have zero options.

 

I don't have any answers either, all I know is we have a fighting chance to regain some normalcy without the benzo in our body. Take care.

[[Gu...]]

Yeah its a catch 22 alright.

 

I was actually comparatively fine while on benzo's but I noticed an increase in anxiety and agitation before I started tapering. I was still functional though and even held down a job. I would give anything to return to they way I was then. Now I can barely leave the house. I was quite social and now I talk to no one. I'm not even well enough to go for a walk.

 

Innadaze have you ever felt so bad you couldn't post on BB or leave your house?

[[In...]]

Yeah its a catch 22 alright.

 

I was actually comparatively fine while on benzo's but I noticed an increase in anxiety and agitation before I started tapering. I was still functional though and even held down a job. I would give anything to return to they way I was then. Now I can barely leave the house. I was quite social and now I talk to no one. I'm not even well enough to go for a walk.

 

Innadaze have you ever felt so bad you couldn't post on BB or leave your house?

 

I sure have felt that bad Gussy. Most of my first 2-3 months was spent inside not doing much at all. I did have to take my kids to and from school. There was no choice. It was not a good idea many days but it had to be done. Some days I sat with the tablet and just played a mindless game of Angry Birds for hours and hours on end. All I had to do was put my finger on the screen and take it off again. That's all I had in me. After about 3 months it so slowly started getting better. You're getting so close man.

[[An...]]

Gussy, my first time through this I hit a point at which I became convinced I had some bizarre mix of Alzheimer's and Parkinsons. I was shaking, had a tremor, and couldn't drive for crap. I would put something down and not remember where I had , it, at all. Permanently. I couldn't remember anything. I am kind of in that way right now, really. Go ahead, ask me what I've posted as far back as--earlier tonight--on this forum, and I couldn't tell you. I do remember that it got better though, that much I remember. It just stops eventually.

 

Opiates make you feel like everything is OK, please remember that. It's what they do. You don't feel sick and feel like everything is fine on oxycodone? That is it's main side effect, that everything is feels fine. Just try to stay strong, and try not to worry about getting back to work. One thing that seems to be not terribly disputed is how hard it is to feel normal again when you're trying to force it. It'll happen.

 

I'm very sorry you're going through this. I had to go off of klonopin and a painkiller 3 years ago (along with several other meds, med interaction in my case), and neither was pleasant at all. I hate that you're going through one of them already, but if you can avoid the other do so at any cost.

[[Be...]]

"Friends have actually said you need to either 'get better or pass away'. The way you are at the moment is only hurting your son. "

 

you're "friends" actually told you this????

 

I feel very bad for you, but it seems to me that you're totally convinced that you will not be any better after you're off benzos and that you want to just stay on benzos, or something else.......

 

You dont know how you will be off benzos after a period of time, so you cannot say how you will feel. .they say some take longer than others, it just is what it is, in that department.

 

I suffer much the same that youre talking about, how old are you? I read where you started feeling bad after a few drinks.....but you say you have/had a drinking/drug problem in the past, so why were you having drinks?

 

If you're playing around with your taper by drinking or doing opiates, you are going to get slammed......PERIOD.

 

is your son really important to you as you say he is? stop playing around dude, I know you're probably not in your right mind in this situation youre in, but you've got to dig down deep and realize whats at stake, and what you have to do about it, if you really care.

 

Im not wanting to be hard on you, and i haven't read much about you, just what Ive seen here, and this is just my two cents worth, and yes, its worth about that...

 

depression is hard, very hard....I have depression, and I can see that it has been increased terribly with benzo use and tapering, Im getting to the end and unfortunately for me, at this point, its getting harder, and the depression is worse, its about as bad as it can get, so I feel ya, but I can see how Ive been doing this hasn't worked, so I made up my mind to do things differently, no matter how I feel, and to do the things people that have gone before me have done it, whether I like them or agree with them or not, because it seems to have worked for them, so I just do it.

 

I'll have to find a way to deal with the depression again, because its still there.......

 

I really really really hope you catch a break, I really think maybe you have depression (not related to benzos that you have to deal with)

 

 

[[Gu...]]

Thanks again to those who responded.

 

Benzy,

          Thanks for your concern, I appreciate it. I'm not tapering though. I've been benzo free for 3 months but things have gotten steadily worse. I don't blame my friend for saying that because the way I am at the moment I'm like a phantom father. The lights are on but there's no one home. Its very sad. The fact is I do have underlying depression to deal with and it was controlled when I was on valium. I bitterly regret going off them now. I'm far worse now than I ever have been.

 

As for the opiates I do feel very guilty about taking them but without them I wouldn't even be able to get out of bed at all. You don't seem to understand how bad it is. Its not a case of mind over matter and toughing it out. I've never had any luck with conventional antidepressants and opiates were actually used for depression prior to the 1960s. I need to be functional and the oxycodone atleast allows me to get moving. Without them I'm catatonic. I need to be functional enough to look after my son while my wife works. I don't drink and that slip up 10 days ago was rare.

 

Opiates get a bad rap but if not for them I doubt I'd still be here. They give me momentary relief from this hell. It's better than going back on benzo's although now I'm not so sure.

 

Many people here seem to think that benzo wd is doable for everyone but I have my doubts I can get better.

[[Be...]]

Actually I completely understand everything you are saying, you aren't understanding me......

I now you're not tapering anymore and you're 3 months out...I also know what the facts are about healing, and you're (this is suppose to provide hope) you're not at the end of the process yet, you still have a LOT of healing left to do, according to THE facts,....

You seem to have already made up your mind that its not going to happen and you might as well take something now, or reinstate.............but yet you're not at the end of the healing process yet, according to the fact......

I know how bad you feel, and if I didn't have compassion for you, because Ive been there, and many times I still am there (depression) I wouldn't be talking to you now.....

My depression seemed to lessen on the drug too, and it seems to be escalated as a result of the use and the taper. I dont have children, but I have a precious elderly mother, and Ive said many many many times that if it wasn't for the fact that she needs my help (in the future), I would just check out of this scene, because nothing here in this world means enough to me to stay here, but her, right now......

I have to remind myself all the time that no matter how I feel, hopefully its temporary, they say it is. Its just amplified due to the drugs.

The problem with using other drugs (alcohol) is that while they provide temporary relief, they also postpone a good rate of healing, this is just my opinion (by my own trail and error!)

please know Im not judging you and Id give ANYTHING if I could snap my fingers and make everything better for you and your family....

I just think you're stuck in the gloom and doom of stinking thinking about it all because you're overwhelmed at this point, I was there a few days ago too......

You HAVE to get well, and we know that using drugs and reinstating isn't going to do it, if you get back on benzos pretty soon you'll develop tolerance, and be back at zero...........so at this point, you and I will have to just do what others say to do (minus the crazys of course) and trust that they know what they're talking about, after all, what we've been doing aint worked so well right?

I know personally that one night of drinking, wheither I think I handled it ok or not, can mess up a long amount of healing time........

[[Be...]]

one more thing, and I"ll burn my soapbox....even if all you can do is pat your kid on the head, thats better than not being there at all and also we have to remember that though this present moment is usually what concerns us the most, we have to remember to look at the long term. Cut yourself a break on beating yourself up for not being able to function right now. Remember when you were young and didnt have a care in the world, then you hit another stage and that experience was different, and then the next, and the next....

This is just a small piece of your life, its not your entire life.....it will pass and at the next stage you'll look back at it the same way you look back at your childhood, like a memory...

We hear you and we do understand your pain, all of us Im sure... but I would try really hard to change my mind about it, and stop telling myself, and everyone else that its impossible for "me"....I would write down ( and I do this) all the pros of this process, and refuse to speak the cons out of my mouth, just exclude them from my vocabulary....

I wish I had a definite answer for you. Ashton tells us we all can heal, from any drug at any amount for any length of time, Im going to believe her, regardless if I die otherwise!

[[Gu...]]

Thanks so much for your response Benzy. Means a lot.

 

I'm not very eloquent or articulate at the moment as you've probably gathered. It takes me time just to find the right keys and I've never been like this. I can't understand why my cognition and motor skills were fine and dandy on benzo's but now I'm virtually a cross between parkinsons and alzheimers patient now. I've been bad before benzo's in terms of depression and confusion but not like this. I feel like I'm in some horrible parallel universe and everyone else is functioning fine. My wife doesn't understand and is sick of hearing about it but she comes home from work and then cooks dinner and does the housework. I'm not capable of doing anything.

 

Actually my friend thinks otherwise. He said that even though I'm there for my son in my lowered capacity, he'll be able to sense my pain and anxiety and that could adversely affect him. My son does mean everything to me but I'm so apathetic about everything that I have trouble 'feeling' anything, even what should matter the most.

 

My wife and others have suggested that I reinstate because I was simply much better when I was on valium. Just a fact. I agree with you though that it might lead to more problems down the road. Its hard to stay on valium for life.

 

In terms of healing, I don't 'have' 12-24 months to recover. Thats just ridiculous. That would seriously hurt my family and I don't know if I could endure it either. Its not an option.

 

I need to find something to help me to be atleast functional. The opiates just take the edge of my depression. They don't even make me feel good. In a perfect world I'd be able to get off benzo's with good diet, exercise, meditation, positive thinking and the rest of it with no chemical adjuncts but I think you realise thats bullshit. The new age lifestyle would only work it you were afflicted by very mild benzo wd. Bottom line is I need the opiates! Not for self gratification or to get high. Just need some relief.

 

For people like me who have it bad, there's not many options. The hardest thing to realise is that after sacrificing so much to get off these pills there's absolutely no guarantee that things will improve. Many people just don't get better (you just don't read about them here) and end up reinstating or worse.

 

Worse, I feel its not benzo wd at all and I've developed a serious mental illness. Thanks for your support. That little gauntlet of humanity helps so much. I've isolated myself from all my friends and talk to no one except my wife.

 

Take care.

[[Pi...]]

Gussy, I'm worried  for u! Maybe u need to go into a clinic to get help to get off the opiates? It sounds like they are messing with your head. Along with benzos , the remains I mean, this is a cocktail for dear and deadly depression.

        And those friends who said get better or get dead..... They would have to be the most unkind, unfeeling , insensitive friends u could have! Lose them and the drugs !

    U can do this . What advice would u give your own son if he came to u with this problem? Try to think? What would u say dear gussy? I'm sure u will come up with the answer!

      Big hugs and kind thoughts to u gussy.                    Pinkee

[[Pi...]]

I meant deep and deadly depression. (Can't spell for nuts)

[[fr...]]

Hi Gussy, I read in a book that people who are on opiates rarely get depressed so it makes sense that the oxycodone is helping you. I am living hour by hour myself right now. I know what you mean about being more than depressed. I have a lifelong history of depression but the kind I have had in benzo withdrawal makes it look like a picnic. I've gotten to the point where I don't even care about my family members anymore. I know that deep down I do, but since they are doing nothing to help me, it's hard to feel anything for them. In Canada we have home care for people who are incapacitated. Perhaps you could talk to your doctor about getting some help at home through the health care system. Even if you have to hire someone and pay for it yourself it would be good to have someone else take care of some of your son's needs. You really have to get some help, Gussy, even if you have to go into debt to get it. I don't think that going back on benzos would help you now, I think it's too late for that. Please reach out to your community for help. I know it can be hard to come by but you have to try. Ask your wife to talk to her co-workers to see if they can offer suggestions. I don't know where you live so it's hard to help. As for your dumb friends they should be helping you rather than making stupid comments.

[[Gu...]]

Hi Pinkee,

                Never been this bad before. I'm not addicted to opiates, however. Not yet. The fact is that they are the only thing that makes me feel better. I've been off benzo's for 3 months but I've been getting worse, not better. I can't put it into words but its scary bad. The hospital prescribed me opiates 3 days ago and since on them I feel less suicidal and have more energy. I know somehting has to be done because I can't keep taking oxycodone because its not sustainable. Maybe suboxone is the way to go. I've heard it works very well for depression in people with treatment resistant depression.

 

None of the other conventional AD's have worked for my depression and only opiates have ever given me relief. I've steered clear of them this year until now and its gotten me nowehere.

 

Opiates have a bad reputation but in fact I've always been depressed. Opiates didn't cause it.

 

I'm starting to think I'd be better just reinstating the benzo's to try to get back where I was. Trying suboxone might be a last resort before reinstating. Suboxone is addictive but whats the point in avoiding a drug that may help you and taking one that won't, like conventional AD's, just because the former is addictive?

 

Lifes not worth living the way it is. People who think that once people are substance free everything will be fine and dandy are just naive. For many it doesn't work that way.

[[Gu...]]

Thanks Frus.

 

Opiates were actually used as antidepressants until the 1950s when they were superseded by the early tricyclic AD's. They aren't used for depression clinically any more because of worries about addiction. However the fact remains that for those of us who are treatment resistant and not helped by all the conventional AD's, opiates are the only means of relief. They are far more effective AD's than effexor, cymbalta, wellbutrin, prozac, etc. The only time in my life I've ever felt 'normal' is while on a long acting opiate. I always went off them because of addiction worries and the depression came roaring back.

 

I agree something must be done. I can't go on like this. Sorry Frus I don't have the concentration or vocabulary to write well at the moment.