Benzo stored in fat causing waves??

[[Bi...]]

I did read in one mice study with benzo w/d that their GABA receptors upregulated rather quickly after the jump.  I still don't know about the GABA receptors being down for too long. 

I do. It took 7 months for mine to start to re-regulate. And I am NOT unusual here.

 

1) I'm not a mouse

2) I will not listen to anyone, any more, except the other other people here, who know WAY more than any one else does about what we are doing through.

 

I'm just searching for answers about what's happened to me.  I believe some of this mice research pertains to MY benzo w/d, IMO.  Other people can believe what they want.  I'll listen to anyone who can give me more information about this w/d, including people outside this forum.

 

If you search for the mineral  Manganese under the topic GABA and GLUTAMATE you will find interesting studies.  None of them are benzo orientated but more on Huntingtons and MS but the research is similar since they are conditions of TOO MUCH GLUTAMATE on the wrong side of the blood brain barrier.

 

But it says without manganese in your brain receptors grow back too slow.  So I eat a lobster once a week since they are high in manganese just in case  

Yummy Cure Too

[[Bi...]]

In my opinion, based on how many people lose considerable weight after they are off benzos no matter how much they eat or try NOT to, it is better to actually have some extra weight before quitting. The healthy range of Body Mass Index gets heavier anyway as we get older and the reason for this is to carry us through health crises. In my opinion, I wouldn't worry about weight til all is said and done. I wish I had some extra weight going into this taper. If I lose radically after quitting, I may not survive. I'm surprised I've survived this long after getting down to 77 pounds.

 

Hi  Onelove,  77 lbs.?  What do you do on windy days     -  I'll trade you some my fat from some of your skinny   Do we have a deal?

 

DEAL!!!

 

Maybe we can lay on gurneys side by side and get simultaneous transplants.  :laugh:

[[...]]

Hey I want in on this too Bird and One

 

One you can have my last twenty pounds!

 

All I can say for this week is that I am glad it is over.  TGIF!  I got some quality sleep last night with a sleep aid recommended by Diaz-Pam (Swisse SLEEP) and even though I still woke early, I feel like it was quality sleep and I am not sitting here at my desk in a daze!

 

[[Bi...]]

Hey I want in on this too Bird and One

 

One you can have my last twenty pounds!

 

All I can say for this week is that I am glad it is over.  TGIF!  I got some quality sleep last night with a sleep aid recommended by Diaz-Pam (Swisse SLEEP) and even though I still woke early, I feel like it was quality sleep and I am not sitting here at my desk in a daze!

 

 

Hi Eliz,  sleep is actually very important as most healing happens in REM sleep. If you cut too fast that sleep is lost it can be a bad thing for healing I feel.  Remeron helped me alot.  Next I'll dump the remeron after I'm healed but I'm sure that will be a few year still.  Glad I'm on a low dose

[[On...]]

Eliz, you might want to hang on to that 20 pounds til after being benzo free a bit. So many people lose weight afterwards with no change in their normal diet. One BB told me he continued to lose even eating 3,500 calories a day. My sister did the same after stopping  clonazepam and she was drinking rich milk shakes, lots of high calorie foods, and desserts galore just to keep from losing any more weight. She was frantic and started out with 20 pounds to lose! 

 

If this happens to me, I'm in serious trouble!  Will hate having gone through all this withdrawal pain only to die from cachexia in the end. Argh.

 

Wish I had that extra 30 pounds I was carrying this time last year, really I do! 

[[Co...]]

I found something to help you gain weight, it's called depakote! Since going ct I have gained 10 lbs on a ketogenic diet! My hair is falling out too.

[[Co...]]

That's why they gave it to me. To prevent wd seizures.

[[Mo...]]

That's why they gave it to me. To prevent wd seizures.

 

sorry cool.i made an error and deleted my first reply.

so lets start again.i said ...

 

depakote is a medication to prevent seizures . not a very good idea. and now your reply:

That's why they gave it to me. To prevent wd seizures.

 

and now my reply:

as far as i am informed these anti seizure meds for WD SEIZURES should not be taken

longer than 6 weeks. and not to gain weight.

[[...]]

Hi OneLove,

 

I hope this finds you feeling better than when we last messaged each other.  You had said in a post last week that you have some Remeron.  Are you tentative about trying it to see if it would help your weight gain?  What about the compounded ibuprofin, did the pharmacist get it right for you and have you started taking it yet?

 

I could afford to give you 40 lbs if it was actually possible.  I currently still weigh 174 lbs and am 5' 7" so it would take a lot to get back to where I was in my 20s.

 

:-[   

 

[[On...]]

Hi OneLove,

 

I hope this finds you feeling better than when we last messaged each other.  You had said in a post last week that you have some Remeron.  Are you tentative about trying it to see if it would help your weight gain?  What about the compounded ibuprofin, did the pharmacist get it right for you and have you started taking it yet?

 

I could afford to give you 40 lbs if it was actually possible.  I currently still weigh 174 lbs and am 5' 7" so it would take a lot to get back to where I was in my 20s.

 

:-[ 

 

Hi Eliz,

 

I hope your doc appointment went (or goes) well for you today!  You've been on my mind and I've been sending good wishes your way.

 

I have the Remeron because it was prescribed for me in the hospital back in late May. At the time I started taking it, I got terrible akathesia, waking up at 1:00am every single night screaming with burning spinal pain and pacing the halls of the hospital. Not even morphine shots stopped it.  The ONLY thing that ever stopped it was a dose of Ativan. Duh.  And NONE of us ever did figure out I had a benzo dependency.    it took finding Benzo Buddies for the lightbulb to go on.

 

Anyway, back to the Remeron, aside from the bad akathesia, there are several other possible side effects having to do with the manufacture of blood and immune factors and since I have given over 100 vials of blood, been radiated to the max with diagnostic tests, and weigh only 80 pounds now with more and more difficulty eating, I'm reluctant to risk the side effects.

 

I did get the compounded ibuprofen, yay. I have taken it a few times. I don't seem to notice much effect from it, darn, and since my GI probs have gotten worse, I wonder if the ginger powder they used as filler might be a little tough on my GI system. I used to make lots of ginger tea and it was GOOD for me, but this benzo business has turned so many things in my life upside down, I just don't know anything anymore. Nothing is what it used to be.

 

Hope all is well with you. Waiting to hear your news from the day.  

[[su...]]

Hi Bart and all,

This is going back a bit, but I believe the release of benzo from fat is non-linier.

If you are loosing weight, or metabolising fat, it's likely that benzos will come out as the fat gets used.

If you are gaining weight, I think it will stay locked up until that fat is used again, perhaps years later.

I found for a couple of weeks after I CT'd, that I would definitely feel benzo calms after a gym workout, I.e. using fat, but later it seemed to wind things up a bit after gym.

There may be other systems and substances that store things in fat too, that effect all this.

It might even explain the oscilating nature of waves, as we get bad, we stop eating and benzoes or other things come into the system from fat.

So, I have doubts that the maths will work in this case because of this.

 

[[...]]

The problem with the non-linear theory is that there is no scientific evidence for it. It does sound reasonable on some level, however.

But even if you were losing weight, on a percentage of your total fat content, the daily loss for most people would be small. For very thin people the percentages will of course be more, but then they will have less fat for the benzos to go into in the first place.

There was a study in deceased nursing home patients who had been on benzodiazepines that found an unexpectantly large amount of benzo in skeletal muscle.

[[su...]]

Hi Bart,

Hard to say scientificly, but I'd virtually sware to it as my own exerience, and there are other cases of fat soluable things coming out perhaps years later when people have lost weight for some reason.

One of my favourites was an anikdote I heard years back of a bunch of forest protesters who got locked up for a few weeks and went on a hunger strike.

Many of them had, in their younger years, and some still were smokers of quite a bit of marijuana!

Once they burned up everything in their gut, they started metabolising fat, and out it came!

Needless to say, they had quite a happy time in jail!!!

I suspect this effect is possible with many things including benzos, and certainly I got a bit of a high after a gym workout for a couple of weeks after I came off it.

So, Imho, if you are gaining weight, you will not release the benzo into the blood, but if you are loosing weight, you probably will be.

It does seem to fit better with what many of us are experiencing!

 

[[Co...]]

There are a few problems with that story. Firstly, when starving your body burns muscle first. Not fat. That's why fat is so hard to get rid of. Secondly, you're retelling a story from a friend who was using a mind altering substance, and starving himself. Hunger can do all sorts of things to you. He probably just thought he was high because of the altered state of mind from the hunger. Thirdly, marijuana doesn't stay in your system or in your fat for any lengthy period of time. It gets filtered out fairly quickly

[[Co...]]

I thought that mostly inactive metabolites got stored in fat?

[[pr...]]

I thought that mostly inactive metabolites got stored in fat?

 

I'm confused about this also.  I can't find a clear source that says we store benzo in our fat cells, and then the benzo leaves the fat cells in a way that is just like taking a pill, only delayed in time. I'll believe it if I can find a source that clearly says this is what is happening.

 

I see a lot of things on the forum that I can't pin down from other sources. I think it is possible there are some popular misconceptions that everybody repeats, but that are just not true. I'm not saying I know more than anybody else - just that I'm skeptical.

[[...]]

Regarding the starvation story, there could be another likely reason for the good feelings they were experiencing.  When the body recognizes starvation mode and starts to burn itself for fuel, it releases endorphins which bring on a euphoric feeling.  It is said that this is a last ditch effort of the body to keep itself alive as painlessly as possible.

 

Just another view point to consider.

[[On...]]

The problem with the non-linear theory is that there is no scientific evidence for it. It does sound reasonable on some level, however.

But even if you were losing weight, on a percentage of your total fat content, the daily loss for most people would be small. For very thin people the percentages will of course be more, but then they will have less fat for the benzos to go into in the first place.

There was a study in deceased nursing home patients who had been on benzodiazepines that found an unexpectantly large amount of benzo in skeletal muscle.

 

Bart, do you know at what daily dose the body begins to pull the benzo metabolites back out of the skeletal muscles and other tissues? Or is it doing this all along as we taper down?  Or does this process not begin at all until we are in the very teensy tiny doses?

[[...]]

Substances stored in tissues such as fat will always be in equilibrium with serum levels. They will come out in a linear manner during the taper.

[[Be...]]

I wondered whether the reason many of us lose weight when we jump is that our body's addiction to the benzo causes it to pull it out of our fat to feed its appetite for the drug.  Just a thought. 

[[On...]]

Substances stored in tissues such as fat will always be in equilibrium with serum levels. They will come out in a linear manner during the taper.

 

Along the same vein of thought, does the body reach a peak level of buildup of metabolites? Isn't there a time limit on how long this process happens before it levels out?  My pain levels are increasing daily and are quite noticeable about 1-2 hours after my doses. What does this mean? Am I still I building up metabolites in my nonfat tissues because I have practically no fat, or is my pain increasing due to glutamate toxicity in the neural cells?  I'm at a loss as to how to stabilize. I never seem to get there and the longer I hold, the worse my pain.

 

Paradoxical? Tolerance?  What gives?