Please help -

[[ba...]]

I've been off Klonazapam now for 2 months.  Had very bad back spasm for a few weeks and have been losing muscle mass and weight.  The good news is my depression and angry mood swings have levelled off a bit.  But the anxiety levels are thru the roof all day long.  I feel like I'm losing it - I can't focus on work and I really need to.  I can't focus on having a conversation with friends.  My wife will be talking to me and I have no idea what she said - I'm just lost in thought loops.  I made a poor decision about coaching my son's travel team and now I'm going to be stuck with that for the next year.  Thought it may help give me a distraction - but it's now causing me all kinds of stress and I'm regretting it.  My wife is so frustrated with me - I'm frustrated with me.  I can't go on this way.

 

I emailed my pdoc y'day to ask her about trying valium for a period of time and then tapering.  I guess I c/t'd the Klonopin but I was only on .25 day at the most - didn't think it would be that big a deal.  I'm just so sensitive to meds.  Can't tolerate ssris or other antidepressants anymore - make me crazy and manic. 

 

Thoughts on going back on K and then tapering over the next few months?  Thoughts on trying valium and then tapering off that?  I need to be functional for my family......  I need my life back......

Please help me,

B

[[ve...]]

I've been off Klonazapam now for 2 months.  Had very bad back spasm for a few weeks and have been losing muscle mass and weight.  The good news is my depression and angry mood swings have levelled off a bit.  But the anxiety levels are thru the roof all day long.  I feel like I'm losing it - I can't focus on work and I really need to.  I can't focus on having a conversation with friends.  My wife will be talking to me and I have no idea what she said - I'm just lost in thought loops.  I made a poor decision about coaching my son's travel team and now I'm going to be stuck with that for the next year.  Thought it may help give me a distraction - but it's now causing me all kinds of stress and I'm regretting it.  My wife is so frustrated with me - I'm frustrated with me.  I can't go on this way.

 

I emailed my pdoc y'day to ask her about trying valium for a period of time and then tapering.  I guess I c/t'd the Klonopin but I was only on .25 day at the most - didn't think it would be that big a deal.  I'm just so sensitive to meds.  Can't tolerate ssris or other antidepressants anymore - make me crazy and manic. 

 

Thoughts on going back on K and then tapering over the next few months?  Thoughts on trying valium and then tapering off that?  I need to be functional for my family......  I need my life back......

Please help me,

B

 

Some would say that at two months off, gut it out and it will eventually get better.  Others would argue that the c/t may lead to a long period of symptoms, perhaps up to a year although you might see some improvements with time and perhaps in a few months.  If you cross/reinstate to valium, it may not fully diminish all current symptoms, although if you are not functioning and/or not sleeping, having lots of anxiety, racing thoughts... it may help with some of that.

 

Some folks who have been on klonopin and switched to valium have commented that it created some blues or intermittent depression.  Each person will have a different experience.  Going back on valium is not a guarantee but if you were to choose to go back on klonopin or valium, valium might be a slightly "better" choice since it has the longer half life and in many cases, easier to taper off.  I personally tapered off 7mg of valium and felt grateful that I had not been given xanax or ativan for anxiety, based on what I read around forum from others who were tapering.  I know some say that one benzo is not necessarily easier than another but I found valium to be tolerable to taper off.

 

In regards to your coaching responsibilities that you took on, I can relate to the stress of that  and I was not even on a travel team.  I became coach of my son's soccer team this past Spring and I can say that even off the benzo for a good while, I found that adrenalin surges and insomnia came back.  It was disappointing to me but I think it is quite normal that the CNS may take a year to fully heal and deal with stressful situations that one may not be accustomed to like practices, games, communicating with parents, getting the boys to focus, dealing with other coaches, refs.... 

 

Ultimately, the decision is yours as to whether to go back on a benzo at this time.  It would be nothing to feel badly about if you did.  On the other hand, be aware that if you go back on something like 5mg of valium, it may take you a good six months or longer to "properly"  taper off when the time comes and possibly another three to six months of some withdrawal to deal with.  If you just stay off the  klonopin, you're probably looking at another few months to a year of healing.  Either way, it could be a bit of a struggle ahead, but that's life, right?.

 

  If it were me, I'd probably lean toward reinstatement to 5mg valium based on what you've described at work, the coaching job and having trouble functioning, family stress at home.... it may be a better time in the future for you to come off the benzo.  Just be aware that it might only help with some symptoms and may not be a 100% panacea, plus some other issues might continue to impact you such as mild memory or focus problems and/or blues.  What does your physician say?  Is he supportive of going on valium?

 

By the way, don't feel badly about having symptoms from c/t off .25 k.  Many have issues with that coming off that "low" a dose.  I did a c/t off about 6mg valium back in 2008 and ended up in the ER at three weeks off with intense agitation, insomnia and vertigo.  Some of us are more sensitive to the benzo than others too.  I was glad I reinstated.  I stayed on for a few months at a difficult time when my father was having chemotherapies and began my taper a few months later.  Total taper off the valium was about 10 months but I could have done it in 8.  Be aware that too much intense exercise can ramp things up.  I found that too much weight lifting and weight loss at a certain point ramped things up.  In the early months off, some mild to moderate exercise, perhaps a few times a week would probably be a reasonable goal.  Also, staying off caffeine, soda, coffee... even avoiding too much tea (sweet in particular) might be helpful.

 

  Also, in just looking at your history with going off the long term a/d zoloft, trying celexa, trazodone... seems like it would be normal for your brain and body to be going "a bit bonkers" for lack of a better term. From what I've read, going off a benzo can be far more tricky than an a/d but doing both at about the same time or sequentially must be very challenging.  Some say going c/t off a benzo is more difficult than going off heroin. Also keep in mind that Ambien is a "z" drug and can impact GABA in similar ways to benzos.  Having read your signature more carefully along with your current reported description of low functioning and some increasing marital problems, it would be a no brainer to me to reinstate, ideally with your doctor's support.

 

I would also recommend if you have not already, learn something about mindfulness.  You can check out books by Jon Kabat-Zinn such as "Full Catastrophe Living". If anxiety is off the charts, try "The Mindfulness and Acceptance Workbook for Anxiety" by Eifert and Forsyth.

 

Good luck basgopsu,

 

Vertigo

[[He...]]

I dont know, but for me I would have reinstate to valium. It may be a smoother ride. c/t seems to be destructive. Try to give a copy of Ashtons manual to your doc.

Do you have to work now? I mean cant you be put on sick list? (dont know it thats the correct term, im swedish)

 

I havent worked for three years, first I was sick from abuse of opiates, then I was put on valium and taperd for a half year then now im 5 months out I think. I couldnt have worked during w/d. But if you think you can handle work than thats good.

 

I know the anxiety is horrible but it will get better... it really will, I couldnt belive it in the past either but now it´s turned for me, and it will for you to.

 

/Henke

[[ve...]]

I dont know, but for me I would have reinstate to valium. It may be a smoother ride. c/t seems to be destructive. Try to give a copy of Ashtons manual to your doc.

Do you have to work now? I mean cant you be put on sick list? (dont know it thats the correct term, im swedish)

 

I havent worked for three years, first I was sick from abuse of opiates, then I was put on valium and taperd for a half year then now im 5 months out I think. I couldnt have worked during w/d. But if you think you can handle work than thats good.

 

I know the anxiety is horrible but it will get better... it really will, I couldnt belive it in the past either but now it´s turned for me, and it will for you to.

 

/Henke

 

Hey Henke.  I agree that c/t can be rough.  How are you doing by the way?  Hope things are going better for you.

 

V

[[...]]

Sorry to hear about your troubles but I can relate to how you feel about needing to be functional again for your family.  It's really difficult to give yourself the healing time you and your body need while trying to support and be there for everyone else.  I'm "lucky" in a sense that I've had other medical issues that have put me on short term disability.  It's still a huge financial mess right now, but it's given me the ability to cut out work and reduce my incoming stress level quite a bit.  My life has been on hiatus for a couple months and that will be coming to an end very soon.

 

Anyway, it might be a good idea to simplify your life as much as possible, even if it means doing things that would be otherwise unthinkable, like taking a work hiatus or quitting the coaching.  If you had pneumonia or were in a car accident, what would you do different?  You obviously feel very ill and it might be time to be a little selfish and take care of yourself.

 

Of course, if you push on, you might find that things get better.  Have you tried medication or exercise or any more natural ways to get through the anxiety?  Maybe start doing more to treat the anxiety and give yourself a week or two before trying any more drastic measures just to see if you can make a dent.

[[He...]]

Hi Vertigo. Things is getting better for me. It is like this far out in healing i get waves and windows more frequent. But it is like I have come to a new lowest level. Im usually good, but then comes bad days, but they arent so bad, im mostly extremly tired, it seems like that is my new way of reacting to anxiety.

I have hit some walls as you know. I´ve been consuming not so good substances. Clear from that now though

 

So I would say im 30% better, and I mean I cant compare this to the 3 first months.

[[sw...]]

Hey there,

 

I am sorry that you are having a rough time.  My two cents would be that if you are 2 months out from almost any dose it probably wouldn't be worth it to go back, but if .25mg was the maximum you were on and you're already two months out then I would really recommend against it.  However, if you do decide to go back, after being off for so long I would recommend going back on at a significantly lower dose as your body no longer needs as much as you were once on.

 

Regarding your son's travel team, I strongly suggest that you excuse yourself from this commitment due to health reasons.  It really makes withdrawal go that much easier if you don't have commitments or obligations hanging over your head.  This sounds like a commitment that you can excuse yourself from for very valid health reasons.

 

Best wishes.

 

[[ba...]]

Thanks for the responses - I took some klonopin and can actually think straight - but of course woke up down in the dumps and fatigued  - tried to run but muscles just fatigued.  This past weekend I could have run for many miles w/o the drug - of course  I had the anxiety amping me up. 

 

Dr. says I should take a mood stabilizer and that the K withdrawal would only last 2 weeks - not 2 months.  I'm having symptoms of mood disorder and anxiety - but my moods have been better these last 2 weeks - just anxiety levels thru the roof.

 

If I have to take the K to function, I guess I will and then just try to do a slow taper.  If I can get relief at 1/4 to 1/2 a .5 pill a day, and I taper over the next few months, maybe that will work better.

 

So many things messed up from this drug and teh zololft - shouldn't have to be suffering like this - but I will not let it beat me - somehow I'm going to come out the other side.

[[ba...]]

Yeah - I'd like to excuce myself from the coaching - but I did once last week and then I decided I wanted to do it and got back in - so can't back out again.  My chance to do it was last week and I really goofed up. Now I'm in it deep and just have to make the best of it.

[[ve...]]

Thanks for the responses - I took some klonopin and can actually think straight - but of course woke up down in the dumps and fatigued  - tried to run but muscles just fatigued.  This past weekend I could have run for many miles w/o the drug - of course  I had the anxiety amping me up. 

 

Dr. says I should take a mood stabilizer and that the K withdrawal would only last 2 weeks - not 2 months.  I'm having symptoms of mood disorder and anxiety - but my moods have been better these last 2 weeks - just anxiety levels thru the roof.

 

If I have to take the K to function, I guess I will and then just try to do a slow taper.  If I can get relief at 1/4 to 1/2 a .5 pill a day, and I taper over the next few months, maybe that will work better.

 

So many things messed up from this drug and teh zololft - shouldn't have to be suffering like this - but I will not let it beat me - somehow I'm going to come out the other side.

 

Hi Basgopsu,

The thing about klonopin and most benzos is that it's not something that one can take  intermittently, haphazardly or inconsistently, since tolerance usually builds up especially after having been on the K consistently before.  So if you're going to take klonopin in a low dose, it is probably best to have a doctor on board so you can take some dose daily for a while, or make the switch to valium (valium takes a period of weeks to build up in the system to take effect).

 

  It's tricky about adding new meds or a/ds since you have stated that you are sensitive to them and adding those in now could add s/x and you won't necessarily know if it's the benzo withdrawal or the a/d.  My suggestion would be to get back on a regular dose of klonopin or valium for a couple weeks to see how you feel, before adding new meds, but I'm not a doctor and if there is a chance you might be bipolar or have any thoughts of self harm, I'm sure your psychiatrist knows best.

 

  In general though, it's not uncommon in withdrawal to have the blues and anxiety oscillate and there are some doctors who want to treat it with another pill when it's actually quite normal to feel those things in withdrawal.  Finding a benzo wise doctor who understands this might be a top priority.  Is it possible to take the edge off the anxiety with some other medication?  Maybe, but it's often hit or miss.  Some buddies who were having sleep issues had some improvements from a low dose of myrtazapine.  Higher doses are apparently needed to  help with clinical levels of depression, only you know what you are feeling now.  Again, a certain amount of anxiety is "normal" in withdrawal so if you go back on a dose of klonopin or valium, that may steady itself out without adding new meds or antidepressants, but you won't know until you try a few weeks back on the benzo. The important thing is to have a doctor who is supportive of letting you have some control of your stability and be open to not taking too many medications if they are not absolutely "needed".

 

As far as the doctor saying that the K withdrawal only takes two weeks, it sounds like he/she is confusing the time that it takes for klonopin to process out of the body with the longer term impact of the down regulation of GABA receptors.  Valium takes about 30 days, klonopin is about two weeks to process out.  However, the down regulation of GABA receptors from benzo use will likely be impacted for months, something that some doctors try to fix with antidepressants, often without much success.  It is important to find a doctor who is benzo wise.  It may be that you can benefit from a mood stabilizer, but it may also be true that you will do much better to get back on a low dose of klonopin (or valium) and taper off it slowly down the road after the stress of coaching your son's travel team is over and when you are in a better place at work and with your family at home.

 

I don't agree with Sweet G's suggestion to take a lower dose of K than before.  If anything, with the possibilty of kindling (which sometimes happend with going on and off a benzo several times, including intermittent rescue doses), it might take a slightly larger dose to stabilize. Or you might be able to convince your doctor to try 5mg valium and taper off that down the road. I would not recommend starting a taper until you have stabilized for at least a month at this point.  I do, however, agree with Sweet G that you may very well have a legit health situation that would warrant stepping away from the coaching situation, unless you are able to stabilize with reinstatement, which sounds like you might be planning to do anyway.  Best to make these decisions with your family and physician.

 

Vertigo

[[ba...]]

Good advice - that was a lot of good thoughts.  Thanks!  The K has helped me today function and think more clearly - of course i have the side effects of the weakness and lethargy - but it's better than the totally on the edge feeling I've had for the last 2 weeks.

[[ve...]]

Good advice - that was a lot of good thoughts.  Thanks!  The K has helped me today function and think more clearly - of course i have the side effects of the weakness and lethargy - but it's better than the totally on the edge feeling I've had for the last 2 weeks.

 

Good luck and keep us posted on your progress.

 

Vertigo

[[ba...]]

Ok now I'm really scared.  Having anxiety and akathesia after taking couple days of klonopin. I'm so groggy and spacy now and still having anxiety symptoms very bad.  What is going on. ?  Can't take any more k or it will knock me totally out and only taking 1/4 .5 pill twice a day.  Scared!!!!!

[[ve...]]

Ok now I'm really scared.  Having anxiety and akathesia after taking couple days of klonopin. I'm so groggy and spacy now and still having anxiety symptoms very bad.  What is going on. ?  Can't take any more k or it will knock me totally out and only taking 1/4 .5 pill twice a day.  Scared!!!!!

 

I'm not a doctor but wouldn't it make sense to have a lot of anxiety if you only reinstate 1/4  or 1/2 of the dose you were taking before?  If it were me, I would go back to the dose you were taking for one week consistently and then re-evaluate how you are feeling.  The other option is to split the dose twice a day, but check with your doctor.  Or you can ask your doctor about a cross over to valium but that would still require taking some K with valium for maybe ten days because it can take time for valium to build up and start working.  In other words, if you just started taking valium and stopped the K, it might feel like you had nothing in your system for some number of days.  To me it makes perfect sense that you are still feeling very anxious and not well because you are in effect still in withdrawal especially if only taking 1/2 of the klonopin you were before.

 

Vertigo

[[ba...]]

No this is the dose I was taking.  I guess it is good that I couldn't take more bc it knocked me out.  Just took another dose and I swear it feels like pins and needles everywhere and adrenaline surges and anxiety.  Can the k cause more anxiety? Or ami having anxiety not being controlled by k.  Been so depressed all morning and now anxiety thru roof.

[[ba...]]

Doctor wants me to take abilify or seroquel - I can't tolerate drugs and its been suggested that I won't be able to tell if I'm having effects of w/d or new drug.  So I just wanted to be off them - she says not having prolonged w/d from benzo....  but obviously we are all having this sort of issue or we wouldn't be on here.

 

Is what I'm feeling just the amped up w/d b/c of all the stress and anxiety and will go away over the next few days?  Problem is taking the k to a point where I get relief makes me a zombie and so weak limbed.  I'm really losing it over this.

[[2z...]]

I support all of what Vertigo had posted. Adding other drugs put me in such a downward spiral, it took me years to get my mind clear again.

 

I'm not your doctor, but since the 'trend' here in the USA is to RX possible side effects of one drug with yet another which personally I think is not always the solution,  but for docs and some people it is a quick fix, but generally does not correctly identify the underlying cause.

 

You may have a condition that will always require medication. I have read in numerous publication that persons in a Benz taper or stoppage programs should not take other medications, unless of course, you are in eminent peril of harm to others or self.

 

A lot of doctor just don't known much about benzo withdrawal. People should be evaluated at 6 monthly intervals during their programs to assess whether their sxs are withdrawal related or true pathological conditions.

 

Have you considered getting other health care professionals opinions?Star Gazer

[[ba...]]

yes - i'm looking into trying to find a dr who might help me.  I don't want to start a new drug - I think I will be fine once my body resets itself - just taking a very lonnnnggggg time to do that.  That's why the dr says the condition needs medication - it's not withdrawal but an actual medical problem - so hard to go thru this stuff and have support from my family when I"m going against what dr's say.

[[ve...]]

So you were taking 1/2 of a .5 pill per day before but it's only been two days, right? 

 

Before you went off the klonopin, how long had it been since you went off the other a/d or other medications?

 

V

[[ba...]]

it had been a year since I had last tried to take citalapram (took it for about a month before it became intolerable  - I was taking such a low dose and titrating up but was just too activating and gave me bad angry spells.

 

Most of the days I didn't take even 1/2 of the .5 pill - it was more like a 1/3 or even a 1/4.  I guess it did go up at the end towards 1/2 a pill but it was not consistent - everytime I tried to add a supplement it caused me anxiety and other revved up feelings - so I wouild have to take it settle down.

[[ve...]]

it had been a year since I had last tried to take citalapram (took it for about a month before it became intolerable  - I was taking such a low dose and titrating up but was just too activating and gave me bad angry spells.

 

Most of the days I didn't take even 1/2 of the .5 pill - it was more like a 1/3 or even a 1/4.  I guess it did go up at the end towards 1/2 a pill but it was not consistent - everytime I tried to add a supplement it caused me anxiety and other revved up feelings - so I wouild have to take it settle down.

 

If it were me, I'd try to stay with the same dose of klonopin you were on for at least a week.  Due to the possibility of kindling, it may be necessary to take a slightly larger dose. Alternatively, you could consider crossing over to valium in which case you would take both some amount of klonopin and valium until the valium built up, then wean off the klonopin, then stay on the valium for some period before slowly tapering off.  Maybe that would help you stabilize. Perhaps your doctor would be willing to consider this option?  If not, you could always look for a benzo wise doctor who might be more open to the idea .  Also, it's not surprising that the celexa didn't agree with you since some SSRIs can create more anxiety.  I don't know much about Abilify or Seroquel.  Might be worth getting a second opinion from another doctor/psychiatrist before deciding on adding anything, unless of course you are in crisis mode.  If it were me, I'd try to stabilize on the klonopin for a week.  Also, try to pursue some type of mindfulness or stress reduction method such as yoga... as opposed to intensive work outs.

 

Vertigo

[[ba...]]

What is kindling?

[[2z...]]

"If it were me, I'd try to stay with the same dose of klonopin you were on for at least a week.  Due to the possibility of kindling, it may be necessary to take a slightly larger dose. Alternatively, you could consider crossing over to valium in which case you would take both some amount of klonopin and valium until the valium built up, then wean off the klonopin, then stay on the valium for some period before slowly tapering off.  Maybe that would help you stabilize. Perhaps your doctor would be willing to consider this option?  If not, you could always look for a benzo wise doctor who might be more open to the idea .  Also, it's not surprising that the celexa didn't agree with you since some SSRIs can create more anxiety.  I don't know much about Abilify or Seroquel.  Might be worth getting a second opinion from another doctor/psychiatrist before deciding on adding anything, unless of course you are in crisis mode.  If it were me, I'd try to stabilize on the klonopin for a week.  Also, try to pursue some type of mindfulness or stress reduction method such as yoga... as opposed to intensive work outs.

 

Vertigo"

 

I don't know what it means either, except in the literal sense -to start a fire. Maybe in the benzo sense, it may mean an increase in sxs. Maybe Vertigo will reply to you're question. Star Gazer

[[ve...]]

Kindling due to substance withdrawal, refers to the neurological condition which results from repeated withdrawal episodes from sedative-hypnotic drugs such as alcohol or benzodiazepines. Each withdrawal may lead to more severe withdrawal symptoms than the first withdrawal syndrome.

[[An...]]

Doctor wants me to take abilify or seroquel - I can't tolerate drugs and its been suggested that I won't be able to tell if I'm having effects of w/d or new drug.  So I just wanted to be off them - she says not having prolonged w/d from benzo....  but obviously we are all having this sort of issue or we wouldn't be on here.

 

Is what I'm feeling just the amped up w/d b/c of all the stress and anxiety and will go away over the next few days?  Problem is taking the k to a point where I get relief makes me a zombie and so weak limbed.  I'm really losing it over this.

Hi there,

I really would like to clear some things up for you. First of all K is the worse drug on the face of the earth. 1 mg of K is equal to 20 mg. of Val. K will hold on to you like bark on a tree.  V is easier to taper with.  I have been 5 months trying like crazy to get off 3.2 of V. I use liquid V and if you are in the US you can use it to make tiny cuts and dose 4 times a day to keep s/d at bay. There is no way I know of to get of benzos easily. There is no time frame that you can plug into. You have to listen to your body and be gentle with yourself during this time. If I can be of any help to you please p.m. me.  I have lost 40 lbs. My mus. mass is non existent. My skin is dry and hangs off of me. My face is drawn and I have no fluid anywhere. You will get drug sick and I pray you get the help you need. No one gets out of this without going through it. I do not want to scare you but here is the deal. Look at all the people on here scaring the info they have and how long they are taking to get well and they are still on here after they are off.  I have aged 10 to 15 years, my looks are gone,my hair fell out, my lips burn and peel and have no collagen in my face at all. You may need to take the Ashton manual to the Doc. and do not be surprised if they say there is nothing to this and it is easy.  They do not like to deal with the outcome of benzos.  DO NOT GO TO A REHAB! Gamapentin had helped me in w/d.

I am so sorry you are going through this,

Annie

We all will heal but we can not rush it!