Disappointed!

[[Co...]]

mbvv.. The only people I call out on this site are people who have a 'god complex" and give out dangerous information to others. Other than that I keep to myself for the most part. As far as detox centers go. I will always speak my mind about them regardless of what people think is right or wrong. Sorry. Cant hold back on that one. There are alot more serious things that happen around here other than this little discussion that got brought up.

 

Rock

 

To whom do you refer? I assume you mean someone that knows the outcome of an event ahead of time? Someone that thinks that even when there is plenty of evidence of a variable outcome by following a set of actions, their experience will be the experience of everyone else.

[[Ca...]]

I am a newer member from another site that has recently closed. Here are my 2 cents.

 

1. I agree with the thought that negative things are discussed on these forums, all of them, not just this one, because this is an extremely negative experience.

 

2. I also agree with the idea that rebound anxiety perpetuates the negativity and there are many times that people come to the forum to search for answers, even though they know that the answer is wd, and leave worse off after reading negative accounts of similiar experiences. The thing of it is is that when you are ion the depths of wd you can't control the anxiety and the compulsion to come on and search for answers. Even in my 14th month off of a cold turkey I still go through my moments when I do it, but what I am finding out is that this is counter productive for me personally at this point. I joined here just to get the "final leg" of support and I have been very happy with the help I have received. I am at the point where I need to post post questions from time to time to get some reinforcement, and it works for me.

 

Please remember, those who healed are not here for the most part so what we read will be negative as most people here re going through the worst of it. They will disappear too. Isn't that the goal of this site? To see as many people recover and disappear as possible?

 

-CL

[[KR...]]

mbvv.. The only people I call out on this site are people who have a 'god complex" and give out dangerous information to others. Other than that I keep to myself for the most part. As far as detox centers go. I will always speak my mind about them regardless of what people think is right or wrong. Sorry. Cant hold back on that one. There are alot more serious things that happen around here other than this little discussion that got brought up.

 

Rock

 

To whom do you refer? I assume you mean someone that knows the outcome of an event ahead of time? Someone that thinks that even when there is plenty of evidence of a variable outcome by following a set of actions, their experience will be the experience of everyone else.

 

Maybe I'm referring to you Colin?

[[Co...]]

You must find interest in them if you read them. Maybe you should refrain from my words so it doesn't disrupt your withdrawl? I knew a few people like yourself would flock to Colins rescue. Hes a big boy. He can speak for himself. Ive said what Ive had to say. Happy healing.

 

"It's not all rainbows and butterflies".  Like we don't know.  No it's babies wearing headphones and sunglasses dude!  Happy healing to you as well.

This is not looking good... I am refraining.. It looks kinda like disrespect .And its quiet Rude.. Im sure it will be taken care of ..

 

~Jenny

 

jenny,

 

I think you will find that Skyy was reacting to KRock's rude comment. You quoted KRock's comment too - didn't you read it?

[[Co...]]

Colin... this part of the forum is no different than the rest of your site. Opinions and advise get "Rammed" as you call it down peoples throats all the time. I'm sure your aware of this. Aren't you? So don't make this out to be an isolated incident. You have members here that get away with giving out medical and tapering advise daily. They also recommend using certain "helper drugs" to ease peoples symptoms. It happens all over this board all the time. And to top it off it screws people up. I would focus on those issues instead of a few passionate members expressing their views on a detox center of which you have never been through before. Maybe if you had you would have the same conviction as us. Then again maybe not? I'm going to speak my mind regardless. This topic should have transparency. The truth shouldn't be swept under the rug out of lack of concern if it scares someone or not. It is what it is. Its not all rainbows and butterflies.

 

Rock

 

I certainly out of anyone in this thread shouldn't be involved, but I just can't take this anymore. I directedly responded to your replies and answers, and absorbed all the information, and posted that I had, why reiterate the same point OVER AND OVER in such a negative manner when I have already accepted your opinion, and taken on board these facts.

 

The thread in question was never "all rainbows and butterflies", in fact about 60-70& of users were NOT advocating me doing what I have chose to do. Then one or two people come on and give support, and you sarcastically comment back to them saying that their experiences are invalid, simply because it is NOT how things happened for you, or due to statistical evidence (which as said previously I have taken on board) but this does not make their personal experiences any less important for me to read.

 

Though I have not been through BZD w/d's yet so no, I don't know how excruciating it will be, but many of these posters DID Rapid Taper, or C/T, in or not in detox centers.

 

I have witnessed too much narrow-mindedness in the recent thread (most of you know to which thread I refer). If, after discussion of the issues, you cannot accept what another member decides to do regarding their own healthcare, in a medically safe environment, then keep your mouth shut. It is unacceptable for members to attempt to force their own views (often formed through their own narrow experience) onto another member. I have my own experiences too, I have read the work of Ashton and others, and through running this forum, have observed the experiences of hundreds, if not thousands of members. So, it could be argued that my vicarious experience is very wide, but I still would not pretend to know how an individual member will react to a given withdrawal regimen (even a regimen that would be ill-advised for most). How people react to benzodiazepine withdrawal after extended use is highly varied. I think nearly everyone here understands this, even those who have been least respectful of the other member's right to form his own opinion and make his own decisions. If you understand this, you should be capable of understanding that you cannot know the outcome - far from it. You have your own opinions, but that is as far as it goes.

 

Which is simply confirming what I am saying, and slandering the Mods and Admins, just because they try and cause a sense of peace and harmony in a thread, is pretty damn arrogant in my personal opinion.

 

Considering how new a member I am, and the fact that I already understand this, and you are just choosing to disregard it, definately says something.

 

I'm not going to reply to anything you post back or this thread as I will just keep using my own, and report my post if you so choose. I probably shouldn't have posted this at all, but think it is down right unfair that you can treat other BB members who may be suffering themselves still like that (and I'm talking about replies to other members, not myself).

 

KD

 

KD,

 

I apologise for the the inappropriate behaviour a few members of this community in how they dealt with you and your inquiry about attending a detox facility. I wish you the best of luck.

[[ja...]]

Colin I did read it it was in His Self Defence from what Mvbb said. There Attacking him and in any circumstance when is this OK Colin?

 

He was called Arrogant and Insulted! Is that not against FUM Rules of having Respect and treating people with Dignity wether or not One agrees with the others?

 

People here have been very Insulting and Nothing is being said about that.

 

I reacted to Skyy in the other thread and was told I was RUDE. Is this not the same?

[[Co...]]

This is so upsetting.This kind of Disrespect ..Im not posting anymore here .People are being very mean and Im not down with it.I have never been mean to anyone for there beliefs.I have always respected that. But calling people arrogant and other kinds of Digs just isnt what this site was based on.

BTW Mbvv..KRock is no Troll hes a man who has faced the Most extreme w/d and has a Truth about what he says. You dont know him nor should you Insult him ...Its just not how people treat each other here. I hope it ends.

~Jenny

 

Jenny,

 

I think any 'rude' comments received by KRock are the result of his total disrespect for the decisions arrived at by another member.

[[Co...]]

wow guys this is getting way out of control.

 

Im getting really embarrassed by this behaviour if you were my kids Id be standing you all in the naughty corner. 

 

KD guess what Im having a good day today.  Healing does happen.  Went and brought some new clothes as well and had lunch out and drove the car wooooooo. 

 

I was out amongst the normals and I felt well almost normal.  However one set back after I paid for the groceries I did leave them on the counter until the girl reminded me but other than that it went well.

 

Lizzy

 

Lizzy,

 

I guess a few things needed saying, and not just by me.

[[Co...]]

Does anybody here know for sure how withdrawal is going to go for other people?  What if KD did a slow taper and couldn't stabilize for the entire year and a half?  What if he recovers in 3 months or is part of the 50 to 70 percent that suffer no withdrawal symptoms at all?  Almost everyone on this forum has had a difficult withdrawal but we are not representative of benzo withdrawal in general.

 

Exactly.

 

Krock, starting a thread on how online support can make things worse, while you are online and on a support site is about the most rediculous thing I have ever heard of.  Where would you be if you didn't have chat when you were at your worst?  Where would you be if you didn't meet these people that held your hand through it?  Who would take withdrawal seriously except for those who have gone through it if we didn't have Heather Ashton?  You're biting the hand that fed you for many months.  Enough already.

 

Well, I had no problem with the thread KRock started a couple of months ago. A online support forum is not for everyone, but 'support' includes respecting the decisions of others properly arrived after discussion of the issues.

[[ja...]]

This is so upsetting.This kind of Disrespect ..Im not posting anymore here .People are being very mean and Im not down with it.I have never been mean to anyone for there beliefs.I have always respected that. But calling people arrogant and other kinds of Digs just isnt what this site was based on.

BTW Mbvv..KRock is no Troll hes a man who has faced the Most extreme w/d and has a Truth about what he says. You dont know him nor should you Insult him ...Its just not how people treat each other here. I hope it ends.

~Jenny

 

Jenny,

 

I think any 'rude' comments received by KRock are the result of his total disrespect for the decisions arrived at by another member.

Colin this is Contradicting...Whats good for the Goose is good for the Gander...Yes?

Why is one Not OK to be Rude and Others have a Free Pass?

This is Wrong any way its painted..

[[Co...]]

Hey Colin ... this forum saves lives and we cannot ever know just how many or when it actually happens.  That thread may not have had the desired effect on the OP but we cannot pretend to know whether it saved someone else and perhaps not in the way it was intended.  Our perspectives are very limited.  Perhaps there was a reason for so much passion to arise and I believe we can trust that all is well.

 

Hi Whoopsie,

 

Although I think it reasonable (and desirable) to consider the effect our words might have upon more causal readers of the thread (other members and guests), the primary responsibility is to the OP (Original Poster / topic starter). I think some took their focus away from where it should have been, from the specific, to the general.

[[Co...]]

I am a newer member from another site that has recently closed. Here are my 2 cents.

 

1. I agree with the thought that negative things are discussed on these forums, all of them, not just this one, because this is an extremely negative experience.

 

2. I also agree with the idea that rebound anxiety perpetuates the negativity and there are many times that people come to the forum to search for answers, even though they know that the answer is wd, and leave worse off after reading negative accounts of similiar experiences. The thing of it is is that when you are ion the depths of wd you can't control the anxiety and the compulsion to come on and search for answers. Even in my 14th month off of a cold turkey I still go through my moments when I do it, but what I am finding out is that this is counter productive for me personally at this point. I joined here just to get the "final leg" of support and I have been very happy with the help I have received. I am at the point where I need to post post questions from time to time to get some reinforcement, and it works for me.

 

Please remember, those who healed are not here for the most part so what we read will be negative as most people here re going through the worst of it. They will disappear too. Isn't that the goal of this site? To see as many people recover and disappear as possible?

 

-CL

 

Hi CL,

 

Yes, it is an observation and truism that benzodiazepine withdrawal tends to provoke a negative outlook for many people, until they are well over the withdrawal period. It can make for a tricky and 'interesting' support forum. Still, we have no choice but to tackle such attitudes.

[[...]]

This is so upsetting.This kind of Disrespect ..Im not posting anymore here .People are being very mean and Im not down with it.I have never been mean to anyone for there beliefs.I have always respected that. But calling people arrogant and other kinds of Digs just isnt what this site was based on.

BTW Mbvv..KRock is no Troll hes a man who has faced the Most extreme w/d and has a Truth about what he says. You dont know him nor should you Insult him ...Its just not how people treat each other here. I hope it ends.

~Jenny

 

Jenny,

 

I think any 'rude' comments received by KRock are the result of his total disrespect for the decisions arrived at by another member.

 

Edit: fixed quote box.

~Colin.

[[...]]

This is so upsetting.This kind of Disrespect ..Im not posting anymore here .People are being very mean and Im not down with it.I have never been mean to anyone for there beliefs.I have always respected that. But calling people arrogant and other kinds of Digs just isnt what this site was based on.

BTW Mbvv..KRock is no Troll hes a man who has faced the Most extreme w/d and has a Truth about what he says. You dont know him nor should you Insult him ...Its just not how people treat each other here. I hope it ends.

~Jenny

 

Jenny,

 

I think any 'rude' comments received by KRock are the result of his total disrespect for the decisions arrived at by another member.

 

Thank you Colin.

 

Edit: fixed quote box.

~Colin.

[[Co...]]

Colin I did read it it was in His Self Defence from what Mvbb said. There Attacking him and in any circumstance when is this OK Colin?

 

He was called Arrogant and Insulted! Is that not against FUM Rules of having Respect and treating people with Dignity wether or not One agrees with the others?

 

People here have been very Insulting and Nothing is being said about that.

 

I reacted to Skyy in the other thread and was told I was RUDE. Is this not the same?

 

Jenny,

 

Maybe you should properly acquaint yourself with this thread: http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=53259.0, and KRock's first post to this thread, where he attempts to misdirect attention away from the point. I'm sure you understand it, really.

[[ja...]]

I completly Understand it..

 

I Agree with Krock 100% and nothing will make me think Different. Maybe he doesnt speak with the utmost Soft Tone .But that doesnt make him wrong. He speaks from experience and tryed to let him know this is Not a Joke. You see people who go this route have Hands on. They know. They do everything they can to STOP another person from the Ultimate Suffering they may go through. Isnt this what we should do? I know this. Its not easy to stand ALONE in this Debate and have everyone come at us .But we believe in what we say.And say what we BELIEVE...That will stand all on its own.

 

And as im seeing this transpire.The only people who are coming down on us are people who Never took this road. Some are still on there meds. So they just dont understand. Had it been them they may be singing a different tune. Maybe not. But to Stand in the way like a Road block of someone who cares enough about another Human to put themselfs out there .Is just not ok.

 

I have been a source of nothing but support Always. You can review every post you will see .I have alot of Passion for everyone here always have. I have the same passion for hopefully saving a Life as well. As does KRock..

[[...]]

I completly Understand it..

 

I Agree with Krock 100% and nothing will make me think Different. Maybe he doesnt speak with the utmost Soft Tone .But that doesnt make him wrong. He speaks from experience and tryed to let him know this is Not a Joke. You see people who go this route have Hands on. They know. They do everything they can to STOP another person from the Ultimate Suffering they may go through. Isnt this what we should do? I know this. Its not easy to stand ALONE in this Debate and have everyone come at us .But we believe in what we say.And say what we BELIEVE...That will stand all on its own.

 

And as im seeing this transpire.The only people who are coming down on us are people who Never took this road. Some are still on there meds. So they just dont understand. Had it been them they may be singing a different tune. Maybe not. But to Stand in the way like a Road block of someone who cares enough about another Human to put themselfs out there .Is just not ok.

 

I have been a source of nothing but support Always. You can review every post you will see .I have alot of Passion for everyone here always have. I have the same passion for hopefully saving a Life as well. As does KRock..

 

What are you talking about?  So Krocks withdrawal was so much more severe than anyone else's?  What about those of us who were forced to cold turkey and were not in a detox and actually had dependents to take care of.  Just as he is you assume to know everything.

[[ja...]]

I completly Understand it..

 

I Agree with Krock 100% and nothing will make me think Different. Maybe he doesnt speak with the utmost Soft Tone .But that doesnt make him wrong. He speaks from experience and tryed to let him know this is Not a Joke. You see people who go this route have Hands on. They know. They do everything they can to STOP another person from the Ultimate Suffering they may go through. Isnt this what we should do? I know this. Its not easy to stand ALONE in this Debate and have everyone come at us .But we believe in what we say.And say what we BELIEVE...That will stand all on its own.

 

And as im seeing this transpire.The only people who are coming down on us are people who Never took this road. Some are still on there meds. So they just dont understand. Had it been them they may be singing a different tune. Maybe not. But to Stand in the way like a Road block of someone who cares enough about another Human to put themselfs out there .Is just not ok.

 

I have been a source of nothing but support Always. You can review every post you will see .I have alot of Passion for everyone here always have. I have the same passion for hopefully saving a Life as well. As does KRock..

 

What are you talking about?  So Krocks withdrawal was so much more severe than anyone else's?  What about those of us who were forced to cold turkey and were not in a detox and actually had dependents to take care of.  Just as he is you assume to know everything.

Mvbb.. I think you joined like 1 month ago.So that would deff excuse you lack of Knowledge and Experience with what I was saying.. If you knew me then you would know ..I would NEVER discredit any ones Withdrawl.Not EVER. I would apperciate if you dont try and turn my words around, They couldnt be further then then truth. I hope someone who knows me and how I treat people will chime in..This is wrong...

[[Co...]]

Mvbb.. I think you joined like 1 month ago.So that would deff excuse you lack of Knowledge and Experience with what I was saying.. If you knew me then you would know ..I would NEVER discredit any ones Withdrawl.Not EVER. I would apperciate if you dont try and turn my words around, They couldnt be further then then truth. I hope someone who knows me and how I treat people will chime in..This is wrong...

 

And I've been here seven and half years. Your point, exactly?

[[ch...]]

I have mixed feelings about this thread. On the one side, I can understand needing some order on BB. We need a place where civil discussion can take place and people don't feel threatened. I totally get that. On the other side, I have this deep drive inside me telling me to do whatever is necessary to help someone try to grasp the risks of going into detox. I do see the same arguements against detox all the time, but I don't see people really trying to convince people not to go. I see some discussions here and there where the person is educated about the risks, but they don't always seem to get it. That is all I was trying to do in my posts. If there was a chance that I could convince him to take another route I was gonna try my best to do it.  I was trying to paint a picture the best I could while trying to regulate the emotion coursing through me on a daily basis as a result of both, stilling being w/d and also feeling very strongly about wanting to prevent someone from unnecessary pain and misery. Objectivity is very difficult since all of our experiences are subjective. 

 

I think it was naturally expected, for those of us who feel so deeply about this, to get very passionate with our posts. Some of us are still suffering from the consequences of our decisions. So, seeing someone about to take the same steps that we did, is bound to set off some emotions. Like I said in my post before, normally I am not one for using fear to prevent someone from something that could pose potential harm to them, but I can't think of a better scenario that warrants using it than trying to keep someone from almost certain disaster. There is no amount of fear that any of us could put into a person by means of this forum that could prepare them for what could be waiting for them after discontinuing benzos.

 

Even if there were only a 5% risk that they could have an intense, long and drawn out w/d...I would still express my condemnation for taking this route. In my eyes, it's kinda like nuclear energy in that regard, it's cheap and a long lasting, but when it goes bad it is catostrophic. I would rather avoid the "catostrophic" altogether by doing away with nuclear energy than risk the horror that could be associated with it.

 

It is not worth the risk to detox. The level of pain and misery associated with it is just simply not worth it. I don't care if you say that we are just limiting it to our own experiences. You are right...WE ARE. We don't want ANYONE experiencing what we experienced for one second, let alone 1 month, 6 months, 1 year or 3 years. It's a rediculously, absurd amout of pain and discomfort. If more experienced it they would understand why we are so passionate about condemning it. I guess I am just a little disappointed myself with the resistance we have gotten on this thread about it. While I don't agree with every post on that thread or the tone in which was used, I do agree with where it was coming from and what it was trying to do. I am not surprised in the least that that thread got a little out of hand. These things are bound to happen in such a volatile environment such as a benzo forum where we are all going through so many changes in mood and personality. We are all pretty messed up trying to get through this and even though we may get a bit heated about this subject, I don't think we need to be reprimanded for it.

 

Now I read this post and ask myself, "Is he talking about me, too?"  I thought I was very restrained considering what I really wanted to say and didn't. I was only trying to get KD to wake up and reconsider another avenue for w/d. His well being was my only concern. Now I don't know w This is when I am so confused about offering support. I thought I was as respectful as I could be. I am not about making waves and upsetting people. I just feel strongly about avoiding detox.

 

So confused right now.

 

Chrisw

 

 

 

 

[[ja...]]

Mvbb.. I think you joined like 1 month ago.So that would deff excuse you lack of Knowledge and Experience with what I was saying.. If you knew me then you would know ..I would NEVER discredit any ones Withdrawl.Not EVER. I would apperciate if you dont try and turn my words around, They couldnt be further then then truth. I hope someone who knows me and how I treat people will chime in..This is wrong...

 

And I've been here seven and half years. Your point, exactly?

My point being ..She doesnt have enough time or experience with who I am to make statements about me trying to discredit anyone..If she had she would know I wouldnt do that. Are you having trouble seeing this? Any reason your targeting a few? Anyone here can say what they like and get a Thank YOU. Me KRock are being ..Pointed out. Why is this Colin ?

[[...]]

To quote you,

 

And as im seeing this transpire.The only people who are coming down on us are people who Never took this road. Some are still on there meds. So they just dont understand. Had it been them they may be singing a different tune. Maybe not. But to Stand in the way like a Road block of someone who cares enough about another Human to put themselfs out there .Is just not ok.

 

 

Sort of appears you are discrediting others withdrawal and now any leverage in the forum due to how long they've been on it.  I can read and I don't need a capitol letter mid sentence to understand the importance of the use of words.

[[ja...]]

Mvbb

 

Yes you can read..But I see you can not Comprehend! Its a FACT. Is it not? They can not understand. It is what it is. Im not saying there not hurting beyond .I wouldnt say that. Lets be real. If someone who hasnt experienced the Rapid detox or C/T it would be Unknown to them. Correct?

[[...]]

Do you read what you write?  You stated the people coming down on you don't know or haven't been there.  Well the majority of us have!

[[Co...]]

Mvbb.. I think you joined like 1 month ago.So that would deff excuse you lack of Knowledge and Experience with what I was saying.. If you knew me then you would know ..I would NEVER discredit any ones Withdrawl.Not EVER. I would apperciate if you dont try and turn my words around, They couldnt be further then then truth. I hope someone who knows me and how I treat people will chime in..This is wrong...

 

And I've been here seven and half years. Your point, exactly?

My point being ..She doesnt have enough time or experience with who I am to make statements about me trying to discredit anyone..If she had she would know I wouldnt do that. Are you having trouble seeing this? Any reason your targeting a few? Anyone here can say what they like and get a Thank YOU. Me KRock are being ..Pointed out. Why is this Colin ?

 

You miss my point! Maybe, since I've been here seven and a half years, running this forum, my opinion overrides yours? Of course, if I was to really say that your opinion doesn't count, because I've been here longer, that might be interpreted as being arrogant. Just because another member is a relative newcomer, this does not relegate their opinion to the sidelines.

 

It seems quite clear to me that your point about mvbb's lack of experience was general, and not about 'not knowing you'. mvbb's comments were obviously in reaction to your own words in this thread. mvbb was not referring to the whole body of your contributions to this forum - and you know it.