GABA discussion

[[va...]]

This thread was split off from genuinehonests thread about going to detox, hopefully I've caught the pertinent comments while moving only some of the posts.  The debate which went on was a better fit for this board, the sarcasm however isn't a good fit for anywhere on the forum, so please if the discussion continues, keep it to facts and opinions.

 

Pamster

 

 

 

 

I am going straight from the detox clinic to a health retreat that then works on my mind as i believe that has a lot to do with why i am in the predicament i am in...

First, I am very sorry about your chronic illness and my heart goes out to you.

 

Second, when you start to feel withdrawal, it will affect your mind. It is because:

 

a)The GABA receptors in the cell that our natural GABA chemical in our brain go to in order to "calm" or "slow" things down has been changed.

 

b)It can no longer accept GABA. Therefore, your brain has lost the ability to "calm" or "slow" anything down.

 

-and that takes 6-18 months after your detox to change it back to normal, if you don't end up past that timeline. And, you do not get sleep while you are going through it because your brain can't calm down.

 

*heroin, opiates, alcohol, detox people, those drugs do not affect the GABA receptor. So, they will be playing basketball as the brain can "calm" itself after their much shorter withdrawal. NOT benzo people.

 

Add the chemical injury from the pill to the central nervous system on top of this which you may want to google, that is benzo withdrawal.

 

=================================

 

So, though you may want to do "mind" work. Your "mind" will be going to fast for quite some time. Impossible to do "mindfulness" when your mind is actually not working slowly to understand and do "mind work" at your retreat.

 

Benzowithdrawal is serious. You'd be wise to get educated. You could land yourself in protracted just because you want to get it over with. And c/ting, is just the beginning.

 

When you c/t, rapid detox affects the brain the same way as a c/t, your brain actually gets injured off the drug as there is nothing to slow it down. You brain can not keep up and heal the receptor fast enough with the rapid removal of the drug. And, it may not hit you for 7 plus days. When you are at your retreat.

 

Everybody would be c/ting if it was that easy. Why would you want to go protracted if you don't have to?

 

I am being genuinely honest as well. I'm not an advocate for needless suferring. You need to find a doctor that will let you taper. Being in benzowithdrawal not being able to function properly for 6-18 months is not getting your life back. Functioning while tapering is.

[[am...]]

I am going straight from the detox clinic to a health retreat that then works on my mind as i believe that has a lot to do with why i am in the predicament i am in...

First, I am very sorry about your chronic illness and my heart goes out to you.

 

Second, when you start to feel withdrawal, it will affect your mind. It is because:

 

a)The GABA receptors in the cell that our natural GABA chemical in our brain go to in order to "calm" or "slow" things down has been changed.

 

b)It can no longer accept GABA. Therefore, your brain has lost the ability to "calm" or "slow" anything down.

 

-and that takes 6-18 months after your detox to change it back to normal, if you don't end up past that timeline. And, you do not get sleep while you are going through it.

 

*heroin, opiates, alcohol, etc., do not affect the GABA receptor. So, they will be playing basketball as the body can "calm" itself after their much shorter withdrawal. NOT benzo people.

 

Add the chemical injury from the pill to the central nervous system on top of this which you may want to google, that is benzo withdrawal.

 

=================================

 

So, though you may want to do "mind" work. Your "mind" will be going to fast for quite some time. Impossible to do "mindfulness" when your mind is actually not working slowly to understand and do "mind work."

 

Benzowithdrawal is serious. You'd be wise to get educated. You could land yourself in protracted just because you want to get it over with. And c/ting, is just the beginning.

 

When you c/t, rapid detox affects the brain the same way as a c/t, your brain actually gets injured off the drug as there is nothing to slow it down. You brain can not keep up and heal the receptor fast enough with the rapid removal of the drug. And, it may not hit you for 7 plus days. When you are at your retreat.

 

Everybody would be c/ting if it was that easy. Why would you want to go protracted if you don't have to?

 

 

Why are you posting incorrect information. This is just not right whatsoever.  Where did you get your information?

 

 

1:  There is absolutely no evidence to support physical changed to gaba receptors.

 

2:  There is no evidence to support that idea that receptors are unable to accept gaba.

 

3:  Alcohol most certainly DOES have a DIRECT effect on gaba receptor sites, ALCOHOL as well as steroids, picrotoxin, gaba, benzos and barbiturates affect the rate at which chloride ions are taken into chloride channels found at the centre of a gaba receptor complex.

 

 

 

Your information in wrong and dangerous!

 

Please revise it or post sources.

[[va...]]

I am going straight from the detox clinic to a health retreat that then works on my mind as i believe that has a lot to do with why i am in the predicament i am in...

First, I am very sorry about your chronic illness and my heart goes out to you.

 

Second, when you start to feel withdrawal, it will affect your mind. It is because:

 

a)The GABA receptors in the cell that our natural GABA chemical in our brain go to in order to "calm" or "slow" things down has been changed.

 

b)It can no longer accept GABA. Therefore, your brain has lost the ability to "calm" or "slow" anything down.

 

-and that takes 6-18 months after your detox to change it back to normal, if you don't end up past that timeline. And, you do not get sleep while you are going through it.

 

*heroin, opiates, alcohol, etc., do not affect the GABA receptor. So, they will be playing basketball as the body can "calm" itself after their much shorter withdrawal. NOT benzo people.

 

Add the chemical injury from the pill to the central nervous system on top of this which you may want to google, that is benzo withdrawal.

 

=================================

 

So, though you may want to do "mind" work. Your "mind" will be going to fast for quite some time. Impossible to do "mindfulness" when your mind is actually not working slowly to understand and do "mind work."

 

Benzowithdrawal is serious. You'd be wise to get educated. You could land yourself in protracted just because you want to get it over with. And c/ting, is just the beginning.

 

When you c/t, rapid detox affects the brain the same way as a c/t, your brain actually gets injured off the drug as there is nothing to slow it down. You brain can not keep up and heal the receptor fast enough with the rapid removal of the drug. And, it may not hit you for 7 plus days. When you are at your retreat.

 

Everybody would be c/ting if it was that easy. Why would you want to go protracted if you don't have to?

 

 

Why are you posting incorrect information. This is just not right whatsoever.  Where did you get your information?

 

 

1:  There is absolutely no evidence to support physical changed to gaba receptors.

 

2:  There is no evidence to support that idea that receptors are unable to accept gaba.

 

3:  Alcohol most certainly DOES have a DIRECT effect on gaba receptor sites, ALCOHOL as well as steroids, picrotoxin, gaba, benzos and barbiturates affect the rate at which chloride ions are taken into chloride channels found at the centre of a gaba receptor complex.

 

 

 

Your information in wrong and dangerous!

 

Please revise it or post sources.

You need to read the Ashton supplement.

 

It talks about the "functional injury" to the brain and that is what she is talking about.

 

You also need to read a little more of the Ashton manuel and the downregulated GABA receptor is exactly that.

 

NOBODY has said gaba receptors are unable to change. What is being said is it takes 6-18 months for most to finish withdrawal from this. They finish BECAUSE the GABA receptor FINALLY changes back but it takes a long time.

 

Your complete LACK of knowledge and advocating a member to rapid detox or cold turkey, IS DANGEROUS.

[[va...]]

3:  Alcohol most certainly DOES have a DIRECT effect on gaba receptor sites, ALCOHOL as well as steroids, picrotoxin, gaba, benzos and barbiturates affect the rate at which chloride ions are taken into chloride channels found at the centre of a gaba receptor complex.

Last GABA receptor lesson for you Amano.

 

Yes alcohol goes to the GABA receptor.

 

The rest isn't relevant to benzo withdrawal in the least.

 

The alcohol goes to the GABA receptor and "calm" or "slows" eg: enhancing our chemical GABA to relax just like a benzo.

 

Here's the clincher and what I was referring to and the reason why people that go through alcohol withdrawal, finish the withdrawal faster, fast is a more realistic word when you consider benzowithdrawal.

 

a)benzos change the receptor. Natural GABA chemical has nothing to bind to at the receptor site in order to "calm" That's why benzowithdrawal takes so long. But it does change back over a long period of time for most as we've established.

 

b)alcohol does NOT downregulate or change the receptor. It only enhances the GABA chemical to "calm" by binding or absorbing if you will at the receptor site. Therefore with alcohol withdrawal, it does not severely affect the "FUNCTION" of the brain the way benzos do.

 

 

 

Summary, the downregulation of GABA receptor is why it is referred to by Ashton as a "functional injury." That heals for most, and less chance of protracted omitting "functional injury" is slow tapering.

 

Structural is visual which is shown through visual physical change.

 

Functional is action of the brain which is changed by the benzodiazpine.

 

[[am...]]

You need to read the Ashton supplement.

 

It talks about the "functional injury" to the brain and that is what she is talking about.

 

You also need to read a little more of the Ashton manuel and the downregulated GABA receptor is exactly that.

 

NOBODY has said gaba receptors are unable to change. What is being said is it takes 6-18 months for most to finish withdrawal from this. They finish BECAUSE the GABA receptor FINALLY changes back but it takes a long time.

 

Your complete LACK of knowledge and advocating a member to rapid detox or cold turkey, IS DANGEROUS.

 

You need to broaden your knowledge base and stop relying on internet forums for your information.

 

Similarly the ashton manual is based on conjecture and observation, not on scientific empirical study.

 

Actually the member in question started this thread based on a conversation we had in private where I warned them of the dangers of detox and suggested they get more opinions in the forum AS PER FORUM RULES.  You might want to get off your high horse as the lack of oxygen at that altitude might further damage your brain.

 

As for a complete lack of knowledge, your's, regarding Gaba receptor complexes is glaringly obvious.

 

I'll attach a picture so even you can understand how alcohol HAS THE SAME EFFECT AS BENZOS on gaba receptor function.  Ever heard of the the DT's?................

 

sheesh.

 

http://thebrain.mcgill.ca/flash/a/a_04/a_04_m/a_04_m_peu/a_04_m_peu_2a.jpg

 

GABA RECEPTORS

ANXIETY NEUROTRANSMITTERS

 

GABA (gamma-aminobutyric acid) exerts its effects through at least three different types of receptors: the GABA-A receptor (which is the best known), and the GABA-B and GABA-C receptors. The GABA-A and C receptors are ionotropic, while the GABA-B receptor is a metabotropic receptor that modulates the opening of potassium channels through second messengers involving a G-protein.

 

Each of these receptors is a macromolecular complex comprising several sub-units. For example, the GABA-A receptor is composed of 5 sub-units surrounding a channel that is preferentially permeable to chloride ions and to a lesser extent to bromide ions. The GABA receptor site appears to be located in the large extracellular domain of the beta sub-unit. These 5 sub-units have 16 known isoforms, each produced by a different gene.

 

In addition to the primary binding sites for GABA, the GABA-A receptor has other secondary binding sites for molecules that modulate GABA’s effects, such as benzodiazepines, barbiturates, convulsants, steroids, and alcohol.

 

These modulating agents alter GABA’s efficiency by inducing a change in the protein architecture of the GABA-A complex. This change modifies the size of the channel, which in turn modifies the receiving neuron’s permeability to chloride ions. Since chloride ions are negatively charged, when they enter the neuron, they hyperpolarize it.

 

 

 

Alcohol

 

Alcohol passes directly from the digestive tract into the blood vessels. In minutes, the blood transports the alcohol to all parts of the body, including the brain.

 

Alcohol affects the brain’s neurons in several ways. It alters their membranes as well as their ion channels, enzymes, and receptors. Alcohol also binds directly to the receptors for acetylcholine, serotonin, GABA, and the NMDA receptors for glutamate.

 

Click on the labels in the diagram to the right to see an animation about how alcohol affects a GABA synapse. GABA’s effect is to reduce neural activity by allowing chloride ions to enter the post-synaptic neuron. These ions have a negative electrical charge, which helps to make the neuron less excitable. This physiological effect is amplified when alcohol binds to the GABA receptor, probably because it enables the ion channel to stay open longer and thus let more Cl- ions into the cell.

 

The neuron’s activity would thus be further diminished, thus explaining the sedative effect of alcohol. This effect is accentuated because alcohol also reduces glutamate’s excitatory effect on NMDA receptors.

 

However, chronic consumption of alcohol gradually makes the NMDA receptors hypersensitive to glutamate while desensitizing the GABAergic receptors. It is this sort of adaptation that would cause the state of excitation characteristic of alcohol withdrawal.

 

Alcohol also helps to increase the release of dopamine, by a process that is still poorly understood but that appears to involve curtailing the activity of the enzyme that breaks dopamine down.

 

 

 

And here is a pretty little flash diagram showing EXACTLY HOW ALCOHOL AFFECTS GABA RECEPTORS

 

http://thebrain.mcgill.ca/flash/i/i_03/i_03_m/i_03_m_par/i_03_m_par_alcool.html#drogues

 

 

 

 

If you're going to argue the toss, at least check up your misinformation first  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[[am...]]

 

 

a)benzos change the receptor. Natural GABA chemical has nothing to bind to at the receptor site in order to "calm" That's why benzowithdrawal takes so long. But it does change back over a long period of time for most as we've established.

 

b)alcohol does NOT downregulate or change the receptor. It only enhances the GABA chemical to "calm" by binding or absorbing if you will at the receptor site. Therefore with alcohol withdrawal, it does not severely affect the "FUNCTION" of the brain the way benzos do.

 

 

 

 

 

However, chronic consumption of alcohol gradually makes the NMDA receptors hypersensitive to glutamate while desensitizing the GABAergic receptors. It is this sort of adaptation that would cause the state of excitation characteristic of alcohol withdrawal.

 

 

 

Toned down from large red letters

[[va...]]

How long does that last? Alcohol withdrawal people are playing basketball in a month. Not like how it changes or downregulates it like a chemical from a benzodiazipines. It doesn't last 6-18 months.

 

You are setting people up for protracted withdrawal, and you are miniminzing everything about benzowithdrawal.

 

You are dangerous for any site PROMOTING RAPID TAPERS WHICH ARE COLD TURKEY'S.

 

[[am...]]

How long does that last? Alcohol withdrawal people are playing basketball in a month. Not like how it changes or downregulates it like a chemical from a benzodiazipines. It doesn't last 6-18 months.

 

You are setting people up for protracted withdrawal, and you are miniminzing everything about benzowithdrawal.

 

You are dangerous for any site PROMOTING RAPID TAPERS WHICH ARE COLD TURKEY'S.

 

 

You just had a hissy fit, posted a rant then logged out because you were shown to be wrong.

 

Like I already said, I advised the OP against detox  

 

Alcohol withdrawal can lead to death in the same way as benzo withdrawal can.  Benzos are often used as an adjunct to alcohol withdrawal, alcohol withdrawals can last months if not years for some people.

 

Broaden your knowledge base and you will learn so much more  

 

 

You are dangerous for any site PROMOTING RAPID TAPERS WHICH ARE COLD TURKEY'S.

 

thank you for the complement, I am dangerous to sites which promote cold turkeys because my logic argues against it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[[va...]]

I'm not the least bit interested in sarcasm Amano.

 

You initially disputed everything I said in regards to a down regulated GABA that is changed from the benzo.

 

Now you are in agreements and provide links that show alcohol does much of the same thing. Little contradiction there. I am not familiar with that so that is good to know.

 

It appears you have good alcohol knowledge.  Me benzo knowledge. I thought alcohol went to the receptor as we both agree on, but didn't know it affected the receptor, though if you are HONEST alcohol withdrawal is NOTHING like benzowithdrawal.

 

Mind you, I work out and have for years so don't drink. But have talked to those that did and they say it is not the same one single bit.

 

It is ALSO good to know, the alcohol has that affect, but it is STILL less trauma to the brain because it changes back so much quicker.

 

THIS is what this thread is about. Preventing protracted and non functioning due to the extreme the benzodiazipine changes the GABA receptor.

 

Everybody knows benzowithdrawal is nothing like alcohol withdrawal, it's is much much worse.

 

This is about preventing unecessary suffering.

 

Two avenues are better than one and the more information to learn from the better.

 

Holly, that's good it is helping you with sleep. Don't feel guilty. You need sleep. And my point wasn't about that. It was about being detoxed OFF of multiple drugs. Eg: Detoxing a benzo and an AD at the same time complicating things.

 

 

[[am...]]

I'm not the least bit interested in sarcasm Amano.

 

 

Last GABA receptor lesson for you Amano.

 

This is where the sarcasm started, so I beg to differ.  

 

 

You initially disputed everything I said in regards to a down regulated GABA that is changed from the benzo.

 

no I didn't, I pointed out 3 of your points, stating that 2 were unproven/unprovable and that the 3rd (regarding alcohol) was absolutely wrong.

 

 

Now you are in agreements and provide links that show alcohol does much of the same thing. Little conradiction there. I am not familiar with that so that is good to know.

 

In agreement with what?  I only disputed 3 of your points, I showed how you were wrong regarding the alcohol.

 

 

It is ALSO good to know, the alcohol has that affect, but it is STILL less trauma to the brain because it changes back so much quicker.

 

That is easy to say when you haven't experienced long term withdrawal syndrome, seizure or coma due to it.  Tell the guy in this video alcohol withdrawal is less trauma.

 

[nobbc]

[/nobbc]

 

 

THIS is what this thread is about. Preventing protracted and non functioning due to the extreme the benzodiazipine changes the GABA receptor.

 

No, that is your personal agenda, this thread is about supporting the OP with their decision to go to detox because they can't manage on their own.

 

 

Everybody knows benzowithdrawal is nothing like alcohol withdrawal, it's is much much worse.

 

No, that is your assumption,  I have done both, and even at the same time.  It is not much worse, they are equally as bad.

 

 

 

 

 

Two avenues are better than one and the more information to learn from the better

 

 

I accept your thanks.

[[Fl...]]

I am being genuinely honest as well. I'm not an advocate for needless suferring. You need to find a doctor that will let you taper. Being in benzowithdrawal not being able to function properly for 6-18 months is not getting your life back. Functioning while tapering is.

 

That is IF you are able to function while tapering. I read a lot of posts by people who are halfway through a long taper and are absolutely miserable. They sound worse than I was when I was at the peak of WD.

 

I'm not advocating CT or detox but a long, drawn out taper that puts you into what is essentially full blown WD isn't doing anyone any favors.

 

 

[[va...]]

I understand what you are saying FloridaGuy, the people I see having trouble tapering and are always in withdrawal tapering, dose once a day and go too fast. Just my observation. Or they reinstate below their orginal dose and don't hold before going down doing it the same way they came in, too fast. So many variables.

[[am...]]

drawn out taper that puts you into what is essentially full blown WD isn't doing anyone any favors.

 

 

 

exactly.  tapering is no guarantee of anything, it doesn't even guarantee no getting the full shock of a CT.  It might lessen the risk of having a seizure.

[[va...]]

Slow tapers, even going slower and cutting less then Ashton, might lessen a lot more than a seizure. It may lessen the chance of protracted withdrawal. And many MORE can function while going slow tapering than c/ting.

 

I will not downplay c/t's and make the reason to not c/t to being soley about preventing seizure.

 

Many go slow and do way way way better. Many. They are not on these boards because of it. Because they are physically and mentally functioning. They are working, spending time with family, etc.

 

There are a few exceptions, one of the mods, c't's and worked which is awesome. That is not the norm. I did work after 21 days,  and it got worse and worse after 3 months and I had to eventually quit after trying to work here and there,  being neurological altered and physically painful. And lowgrade fevered. AFTER 3 months. Way worse 3 months out than at 1 month out. And this cycle happens for many many people before it starts to go down.

 

It's equally important for people to understand what can happen, and prevent it if they can. There are plenty NOT on these boards right not slow tapering and functioning. Plenty.

 

 

 

 

[[am...]]

You're not a professional nor have any research to back up a thing you say, it is all based on conjecture, personal opinion and anecdotes from web forums populated by people whom you know next to nothing about.  They could well be mental from the offset, there is a palpable lack of logic, clear thought and reason shown on these kinds of sites.

 

The simple fact is millions have taken and gotten off these drugs without incident, there is a small minority who do have problems.

 

How can you make the statements you do, as though they are fact, when they are based on such shaky foundations.

 

 

Moreover what's the problem with supporting the op with their decision ?

 

 

[[va...]]

That is easy to say when you haven't experienced long term withdrawal syndrome, seizure or coma due to it.  Tell the guy in this video alcohol withdrawal is less trauma.

 

[nobbc]

[/nobbc]

This compares to ONE facet of benzo withdrawal. This acute aspect of alcohol withdrawal IS definitely  trauma in that it could happen with benzos, HOWEVER, this is ONLY compares with one side of benzowithdrawal. Initial acute.

 

And there are many sides of benzowithdrawal that are equally important to make people aware of. It is NOT just about getting past a possible seizure from a cold turkey.

 

I am talking about PREVENTING the extreme physical protracted symptoms that can last a very long time post quit, through abrupt continuation of a benzodiazipine.

 

I have have had the great fortune of meeting accidental addicts like myself. There was one in the group that did have an very unfortunate prior history with alcohol so detoxed. It was hard he shared with us. He did protracted symptoms of depression, anxiety, insomnia which lasted a very long time. 8-10 months, then emotionally he was back to normal and could sleep well.

 

However, he said it was nothing like benzowithdrawal. Which he did a few years later and he started it from a prescription due to an accident. Not abusing the benzo or for anxiety. Poor thing. On top with mental symptoms he received post benzo detox, his symptoms added, burning skin, burning brain, head pressure, visual problems,  central nervous system feelings in the body. Nor has he met anyone who detoxed alcohol that got this type of extreme side affect that he got from rapid discontinuation of a benzodiazipines.  His benzowithdrawal with this physical on top of the mental symptoms lasted over a year.

 

Therefore we are discussing different aspects of benzowithdrawal. This specific type of protracted withdrawal is unique to benzodiazipines.

 

This is what I was explaining, and only this. Does everybody get this? No. Could they? Yes.

 

Different levels of severity due to many things.

 

So I throw it out there, that way OP's have all the sides of the coin and can make an informed decision, not an uneducated guess on how they want to stop at benzo.

 

If one misses a seizure or more extreme as you've shared, through a cold turkey or over rapid taper, that doesn't mean benzowithdrawal is over and one just walks away.

 

You misunderstood me, that's all. I just wanted to clarify that.

[[xe...]]

Alcohol can have a pretty nasty and rather better researched post-acute withdrawal syndrome, actually. Alcohol doesn't stay as acutely painful for quite as long, but the reasons for this are kind of unknown, it does bind to the exact same GABA receptors but at a different site. Can't be it's miniscule half-life, as there are very short-acting benzos that produce just as long-lasting w/d. Something especially nasty about that benzodiazepine site. There are also peripheral benzodiazepine receptors that have nothing to do with GABA, but their role in w/d is completely unknown if they have one at all.

[[am...]]

 

 

This is what I was explaining, and only this. Does everybody get this? No. Could they? Yes.

 

It couldn't happen to everyone,  it happens to a small minority.

 

 

 

Different levels of severity due to many things.

 

 

There is no understanding of what affects withdrawal for anyone, do you have more specific facts as to what those things are?

 

 

The op made a decision, regardless of what anyone says this is their wish and they deserve to be supported.

[[pa...]]

Wow.. just read this thread... lots of info, each person's opinion in what they have researched and their perception of understand..  Comes down to one thing... benzo's drugs are hell, adding ANY drug or alchol is not the answer... the body needs to heal itself (forget about all's opinion).. depend on what knowledge Dr. Ashton has and take it for word.... add NOTHING like drugs or alcohol to the system... just healthy good foods,. just healthy things for the mind... to get to the healing.  All of you are correct in some way... but.. why try to win the battle and lose the war.. the war has been these drugs... everything must be done physically right to help the whole package heal.. Best to you... Pattlu

[[am...]]

Wow.. just read this thread... lots of info, each person's opinion in what they have researched and their perception of understand..  Comes down to one thing... benzo's drugs are hell, adding ANY drug or alchol is not the answer... the body needs to heal itself (forget about all's opinion).. depend on what knowledge Dr. Ashton has and take it for word.... add NOTHING like drugs or alcohol to the system... just healthy good foods,. just healthy things for the mind... to get to the healing.  All of you are correct in some way... but.. why try to win the battle and lose the war.. the war has been these drugs... everything must be done physically right to help the whole package heal.. Best to you... Pattlu

 

It's not about winning a war or battle, it is the pursuit and preservation of correct information.

 

No one can make sound decisions based on faulty or incomplete information.

 

Don't drink and expect gaba function to return as quickly as if you abstain.

 

It's that simple really.

[[Kc...]]

Thank you Vancouvergirl and Amano, I found this thread extremely interesting. I especially liked the line "It's not about winning a war or battle, it is the pursuit and preservation of correct information." This is something I can appreciate.

 

I don't know anything about receptors or ions or anything like that, and even if I read it chances are I won't be able to understand it properly anyway, so I'll leave that up to you guy's.

 

The thing that strikes me, is I've often wondered weather benzo's and alcohol worked at all in the same way because I have a friend who is going through the long term effects of alcohol withdrawl right at this moment, and some of the symptoms he describes are very similar to what I've experienced in benzo withdrawl, including seizures.

 

I know this isn't an alcohol support forum, and that this thread wasn't started by a discussion about alcohol withdrawl, but I'm glad it came up. My friend has been suffering greatly due to alcohol withdrawl and it's lasting a very long time (1 year and counting.) I spend allot of time talking with this friend because he seems to understand what I'm going through, we talk allot about the similarities between our WD's even tho they are from different substances. Like many benzo sufferers he struggles with being understood, and longs for validation for what he's going through with the long term effects of his alcohol withdrawl.

 

Even tho I didn't understand most of the discusion on this thread because of all the fancy science words, the thing that stood out for me I really appreciated, and that was about the long term effects that some people suffer due to alcohol withdrawl. My friend is having a really hard time getting anyone to believe him that this is going on, and that is one frustration I can empathise with because it's so similar to my fight with getting people to believe that benzo WD can last this long. thank you Amano and Xeno for speaking about this and for continuing "the pursuit and preservation of correct information."

[[Ma...]]

Why are very few people on this forum (anecdotal, not based on reading every single post) talking about the antidepressant component...both the use of, taper of and cold turkey of and how that affects brain healing?  When there are other things in the mix besides benzo withdrawal, whether it be antidepressants, opiates, alcohol or even supplements that may affect healing,  I'm not sure that you can attribute everything to benzos.  Please correct me if I'm wrong...

[[Ma...]]

And what's considered a "rapid taper?"  I've done 3 tapers off klonopin in years past in less than a month with NO withdrawal at all.  18 months ago did a ct and two tapers in the last 12 months..one 7 months and one 5 months and getting worse at 3 months. 

[Guest [Si...]]

Maranatha,

 

I don't get it either.

 

I c/t Ativan in 2002, and had no withdrawal.

 

I c/t Effexor, and had horrific withdrawal (It's not a Benzo).

 

I c/t Klonopin in 2007, and it was bad. Reinstated, and then tapered to 2.25mg c/o to Valium at 45mg.

 

The Ativan, I used for 2 months and 2mg tabs, how many a day.. several.

 

How I dodged the withdrawal from Ativan is beyond me, but I didn't know it was a Benzo then.

 

 

[[am...]]

I'm not sure that you can attribute everything to benzos.  Please correct me if I'm wrong...

 

 

you absolutely can not attribute everything to benzos.  yes wd can be bad, but some people use it as a crutch for every little thing in their lives that doesn't go like a hollywood movie.  some people are too bone idle to try to do anything and find it easier to blame it on withdrawal, some people are just nuts and use wd as an excuse for it.

 

 

gah the ones that rile me most are those that have been off for years and then get a night or two of insomnia, a tension headache or a migraine etc and then claim that it is wd.......

 

 

 

and personally, those who are blaming wd for symptoms whilst they are still TAKING MIND  ALTERING anti psychotics, mood stabilizers or antidepressants, really ought to have a read of the side effects of those meds.

 

 

Stuff like "I'm 22 months and still in wd, btw I've cut my wellbutrin dose in half" just don't make sense to me.