Any histamine experts?

[[tr...]]

Howdy;

I've been thinking a lot about histamine. I read somewhere, can't remember where, that benzos mess with histamine and cause havoc. Histamine itself is a sleep suppressing neurotransmitter, which is a good thing in normal amounts when it promotes wakefulness during the day. But too much histamine, or histamine intolerance, can interfere with sleep. I started thinking all this because I took a wasp sting to the face, whole side of face and eye swelled, first pain then unbearable itching. I had previously been prescribed hydroxyzine for its side effect of sleepiness to try and address withdrawal insomnia, and I did sleep, but the drug gave me a horrible hangover. So another drug stashed in med cabinet. The wasp sting sent me back to the med cabinet for hydroxyzine, this time for relief from outrageous itching. I took a baby dose, maybe 10 mg, to try and avoid hangover. It relieved both sleeplessness and itching, but even that baby dose raised anxiety and made me feel really dumpy and sad. So, clearly hydroxyzine and other H1 receptor meds (traz, mirt, doxepin) I've tried are not for me. But it made me think, what if the benzos have caused trouble with histamine, and histamine is messing with sleep, could a safer non-drowsy antihistamine like Clariton help with sleep in a round about way by blocking histamine? I haven't tried it yet, always anxious about trying a new med, thought I'd ask here if anyone has had histamine and thus sleep relief with a second generation antihistamine. To note: I have very recently removed high histamine foods from my diet to the extent possible, and am working on increasing DAO enzyme in gut, which breaks down histamine. My question is, has anyone had luck addressing the histamine mess created by benzos with a non drowsy (safer) second gen antihistamine? Any histamine authorities out there? School me.

thanks

 

[[de...]]

I am hoping that @[Wi...] will weigh in on your post.   He has done a tremendous amount of research of the subject of histamine and is very knowledgeable.   You are wise to proceed very carefully with any new medications.   Sometimes they can be helpful, but they can also cause some difficulties.  

Are you completely off benzodiazepines or are you tapering? 

[[tr...]]

Not completely off, 1.5 mg K. Understood about new meds, I should add that 2 days after hydroxyzine, still swollen and itchy, I took a normal sized dose of Benadryl, no adverse side effects, and I slept and it helped the itching. However, I know better than to take Benadryl, a first gen antihistamne with any regularity. 

[[Ha...]]

I'm not an expert by any stretch, but have recently been looking into the histamine side of things. The short answer is yes, benzos are mast cell stabilisers and once they are removed people can suffer with histamine issues. There's some good information on this thread 

 

The author of which takes a DAO supplement and claims it stops all their symptoms.

On a personal note, I've taken H2 antihistamines lately as I got eaten alive by mosquitoes and they seemed to help my symptoms overall. There are natural alternatives such as quercetin among others that may be better for long term use, as antihistamines can block stomach acid production and cause issues of their own. 

[Guest [...]]

10 hours ago, [[d...] said:

I am hoping that @[Wi...] will weigh in on your post.   He has done a tremendous amount of research of the subject of histamine and is very knowledgeable.   You are wise to proceed very carefully with any new medications.   Sometimes they can be helpful, but they can also cause some difficulties.  

Are you completely off benzodiazepines or are you tapering? 

Will weigh in as soon as I have the time and energy to give it the attention it deserves. 

[[De...]]

Eagerly watching this thread as after 36 months off Ambien (and feeling so well I was about to write a success story) I think I've had a setback and suffering from histamine issues.  Gut dysbiosis brought on by consuming allulose sent me to the ER with abdominal pain on July 4th, and given Zofran.  Can't seem to settle my gut symptoms which have regressed back to chemical anxiety symptoms.  

 

 

[[Th...]]

I'm not "expert" but I found this:

First-generation antihistamines block both histaminic and muscarinic receptors as well as passing the blood-brain barrier. Second-generation antihistamines mainly block histaminic receptors and do not pass the blood-brain barrier.

 

[[tr...]]

Thank you, I am aware. There are histamine receptors all over the body, not just the brain. I cannot tolerate first gen antihistamines, other than Benadryl, the ones that pass the blood brain barrier, nor are they are they even a good idea to take on the reg because of anticholinergic properties. That's why I'm interested in the potential for second gen antihistamines, the safer ones. In addition to lowering dietary histamine and raising DAO, can I use them to block histamine while I take these other measures to lower it. I can recognize the signs of histamine at work, I sneeze like a mad woman after eating certain foods, and that wasp sting was always way more swollen after a run. 

[Guest [...]]

On 25/08/2023 at 03:24, [[t...] said:

Howdy;

I've been thinking a lot about histamine. I read somewhere, can't remember where, that benzos mess with histamine and cause havoc. Histamine itself is a sleep suppressing neurotransmitter, which is a good thing in normal amounts when it promotes wakefulness during the day. But too much histamine, or histamine intolerance, can interfere with sleep. I started thinking all this because I took a wasp sting to the face, whole side of face and eye swelled, first pain then unbearable itching. I had previously been prescribed hydroxyzine for its side effect of sleepiness to try and address withdrawal insomnia, and I did sleep, but the drug gave me a horrible hangover. So another drug stashed in med cabinet. The wasp sting sent me back to the med cabinet for hydroxyzine, this time for relief from outrageous itching. I took a baby dose, maybe 10 mg, to try and avoid hangover. It relieved both sleeplessness and itching, but even that baby dose raised anxiety and made me feel really dumpy and sad. So, clearly hydroxyzine and other H1 receptor meds (traz, mirt, doxepin) I've tried are not for me. But it made me think, what if the benzos have caused trouble with histamine, and histamine is messing with sleep, could a safer non-drowsy antihistamine like Clariton help with sleep in a round about way by blocking histamine? I haven't tried it yet, always anxious about trying a new med, thought I'd ask here if anyone has had histamine and thus sleep relief with a second generation antihistamine. To note: I have very recently removed high histamine foods from my diet to the extent possible, and am working on increasing DAO enzyme in gut, which breaks down histamine. My question is, has anyone had luck addressing the histamine mess created by benzos with a non drowsy (safer) second gen antihistamine? Any histamine authorities out there? School me.

thanks

Hi @[tr...]

I initially intended on writing in depth, but histamine is such a big subject, so, I think it would be best to simply guide you to the Mast Cell 360 site. Beth is a functional medical practitioner and has dealt with a lifetime of Histamine and Mast Cell Activation Syndrome (often connected), and issues such as SIBO (small intestinal bacteria overgrowth) and SIFO (small intestinal fungal overgrowth). 

You will find all the information you need at this site to help navigate any issues you may have developed. Use the search bar to access articles on any topic you are interested in, including Antihistamine Medications and and any other supportive measures. It really is important to gain a broad overview of histamine in general. 

Explore the site thoroughly, including the connection between histamine and mast cells.  

WS 

[[tr...]]

Thank you. Wow. That's an overwhelming amount of information. A simplified take away of things I can do today, without spending money:

1. Balance nervous system, address stress: parasympathetic, vagal, limbic by... breathing, meditation, yoga, etc. 

 2. Address histamine triggers: minimize high histamine foods, maximize low histamine and antihistamine foods, use antihistamines only when necessary

3. Address gut DAO (vitamin C and quercetin rich foods)

This is not even close to a summary of Mast Cell 360, just a note to self of practical things I can do TODAY without spending a ton of money on supplements that may or may not be worthless, or spending a ton of money on a functional medicine professional. Those considerations are for another day. Ironic that inadequate sleep triggers histamine, and histamine interferes with sleep, kind of a vicious cycle. 

 

[[De...]]

Thanks for the guidance Winters Sun....I am at the very beginning of what I think will be a long journey (again)....I read on the Mast Cell 360 site that we should use Vitamin C with caution.  I recovered from fibromyalgia which I developed following a quick taper off Ambien.  So it makes sense I'm dealing with MCAS.

Should I really be worried to try vitamin C as the site suggests?

 

 

[[tr...]]

Very important question, Deanna2020, while you're waiting to hear from Winters Sun, if I may...

My take away from this guidance about vitamin C is that it is very important to a histamine busting diet, because it boosts DAO, the enzyme responsible for breaking down histamine in the gut. I am trying to do this with food, tricky because many good sources of vitamin C are high in histamine or stimulate histamine release. But there are foods that are high in vitamin C, low in histamine and don't stimulate its release. The ones I'm reading about that are particularly good that I am using are blueberries 1 cup 14 mg C, raspberries 1 cup 32 mg C, broccoli 1 cup c hopped 81 mg C, red bell peppers 1 cup 117 mg C. It adds up! Plenty more on the list, these are just a few. 

The guidance suggests 250 mg of correctly sourced vitamin C per day. 

 

 

[[De...]]

Thanks Trode, I am doing just that.  Mostly broccoli, blueberries, sweet potatoes, etc.  I am really struggling with lack of appetite and nausea so trying to choke down my meals.  I am so much worse in the morning and feel somewhat better in the evening which reminds me of withdrawal.  Never had gut issues in withdrawal, mostly neuropathic pain and fibromyalgia.

Re: vitamin C I ordered the form listed on the website: magnesium aspartate....

I've been on the protocol about a week and not sure I'm seeing improvement, so wondering if something else could be going on.  Really bummed to be feeling so ill again and not knowing how to get better.

BTW - I tried about a 1/3 tablet of loratidine (Claritan) yesterday morning and had a pretty OK day.  Have no idea f it helped as it is a H1 blocker and all my symptoms are gut related so maybe I should try H2 blockers? 

Much like my withdrawal recovery I feel overwhelmed and helpless....

 

 

[[tr...]]

Ah, sorry for the tummy trouble, makes it hard to get what you need from foods. I love the idea of sweet potato as a low histamine food source, was concerned about giving up bananas because they are a major source of potassium for me; sweet potato would address that. That's the thing with low histamine diets, you're eliminating many foods that are good for you; I just cut out a good portion of my go-to foods, big change. Found some suitable alternatives I like, and hopefully the diet is time limited.

I took loratadine for 3 nights, slept better than usual, super dry mouth and by the third day I felt medicine head, so taking a break. Info on that med is conflicting. Some sources say it is first gen and some say it is second gen. Trying to stay away from 1st gen.

I'm not sure about H2 blocker, just read something that said you could try an H2 blocker like Zantac in conjunction with H1 blocker; might address upset stomach, but depletes DAO like other antihistamines. And then you're getting into more meds with the potential for more side effects, etc. So, not sure on that. Maybe very temporarily to settle stomach?  Hang in there. Best~