Did I mess it up?

[[Za...]]

Hello,

 

I’ve been trying to taper from 0.25 klonopin for last 10 days. I cut a tablet and weigh it on a scale. Sometimes if I cut too much, I add a little piece back. But it is not guaranteed that the piece is from the same tablet!  I have many little pieces in the bottle. Is that a problem? I didn’t realize that!

Also - can I cut by 20% from half a tablet by cutting, shaving? (I tried to go from 0.25 to 0.20, so far I thought it is okay).

[[Sc...]]

Hi Zazie, as long as the tablet pieces are still from a .5mg pill originally, you are fine! I do this almost every time I weigh my dose. It's impossible to know exactly how the active ingredient is dispersed so the best you can do is all you can do. How have you been feeling?

[[Za...]]

Hello Fiona, thanks for you reply!

Unfortunately, they probably weren’t. I made many little pieces in my attempts to cut the pills. And used them randomly! Sh.t! Am I in a trouble?

But today I talked to a pharmacist (before I realized this, I wanted them to make capsules) and she said that Roche (pill maker) guarantees that both the halves of the pill contain the same amount of clonazepam. I hóe it is dispersed pretty much evenly. But we don’t know.

Now there is a question that if i combine my dose from these pieces.. if I am not messing around with the dose.

Also - I go from 0.250 K, from small dose, half the pill and the half was also never accurate. God… do you think it os Ok?

[[Sc...]]

Okay ya lost me, lol sorry. What dose are the pills that you are cutting? Meaning, what's the dose of the entire pill, uncut?

 

And the little pieces - what was the full dose of the pill they came from?

[[Za...]]

Sorry, Fiona!

I have 0.5 tablets. But I always used only 0.25, only a half.

So I taper from 0.25.

I try to make 80% dose from 0.25 because I was on klonopin for 7 weeks so I tried a bigger cut - 20%.

I cut the 0.5 pill in half, cut another little piece from it and if I cut too much (I weigh it), I add a piece back. But these pieces that I put back may be from another tablet, I already made a lot of these little pieces since I started tapering 10 days ago. I keep them in the dose. So sometimes I take a piece that fits, that fits my required dose, I weigh it. This wasn’t a good idea as I see now.

And also - I always used only half of the pill as my dose and the half is also never accurate, sometimes it weighs 0.081 and sometimes 0.076 g.

Should I crush the pills into powder and weigh it? I hope I am not in trouble.

[[Sc...]]

Okay okay okay, I gotcha and that's what I was hoping you'd say. I could see a serious issue if, say, the little pieces you added were from a 1mg pill. That would indicate a higher concentration of benzo in the piece, even if it weighs the same. I hope this makes sense.

 

As for your fear that you screwed up your taper.... and I hope someone else chimes in to give another opinion.... I reeeeeeally don't think you have a huge cause for concern here. I wasn't aware of the equal parts guarantee on each half of the tablet, and that's good to know. But at the end of the day we are talking about very small variances, if any.

 

I can only speak from my own experience but I have never had any problems weighing my doses the way I do. Hell, sometimes I just make my dose out of the little pieces at the bottom of the bottle. This is mostly due to my fear of being cut off too quickly by my pdoc, so I've been stock-piling.

 

The biggest indicator of being in trouble will be how you feel. If I've learned anything from all of this, it's to not catastrophize without reason. Are your symptoms abnormally bad since you made your first cut? I seem to remember it being over a week ago and I would imagine you would feel lousy by now if you're going to.

 

And, yes, you could crush to powder that if it would ease your mind. It sounds like a lot of work and a little messy but we gotta do what we gotta do! (I do think you're gonna be ok though)

 

 

[[Za...]]

Thank you, Fiona, you calmed me down a little bit.

I see what you ment with the dosage of the pill.

I feel still pretty much the same. But I have another concern, I wasn’t using the pills regularly during the 7 weeks and now while tapering I do.. I hope I don’t updose in this way.

[[je...]]

Fiona has given you some good advice. I haven't done dry  tapering long enough to be experienced but I don't think it matters what pieces you use together as long as they're all 0.5mg.

 

I think a 20% cut is a bit big but if you feel okay after 10 days you should be over the worst. I do want to caution you though that cuts have an accumulation effect meaning they build on each other so if you keep this up by cutting high percentages you might end up with bad withdrawal symptoms down the track. I don't want you to beat yourself up over this, it's just going forward that I don't want to see you run into trouble. 

[[Za...]]

Thanks, Jelly Baby.

The problem is I didn’t use the pill regularly. First I used it 3 times a week for a week. Then 14 days regularly. Then 3 times a week for a week, then 5 days regularly. Then I started tapering - everyday use, cut by 20%. This has been 10 days.

Do you think I should go slowly?

[[je...]]

How have you felt these past 10 days since your cut? What was your symptoms like?

[[Za...]]

Still the same, sometimes anxiety and I can’t sleep. I think this insomnia is not from the withdrawal, it is my original anxiety. But now I am very anxious because I don’t know how to taper, how much to reduce. I don’t sleep, I ruminate about it. It is 4 AM here.

[[je...]]

1. Have you ever used benzo's prior to this? 

 

2. Did you notice any increase in symptoms when you made this cut or were you symptoms exactly the same as before you made the cut?

 

I read through your previous posts and saw anxiety and insomnia were preexisting conditions right?

 

Please don't stress about the taper and withdrawal. You're going to get through this. We all do at some stage. Everything is going to be okay. The fact that you handled this cut so well is a really good sign for you!

[[Za...]]

I used klonopin 6 years ago and only a few times. (Maybe 14 doses over three months), i had no problem stopping.

 

I think my symptoms during these last 10 days were still the same. Yes, anxiety and insomnia were there before reducing the dose. I am afraid that maybe I am not dependant yet and I updose by taking it every day now. Eventhough I reduce the dose. Or I am dependant and a large cut will be a problem.

 

The thing is.. when I used it only three times I week, I was feeling that I need it on the third day, anxiety got worse. So it seems to me I needed one in two or three days. But now I reduce from everyday dose. And this has been going on for ten days..

 

Should I reduce slowly? Because of these last ten days. I should probably have cut more in the beginning. But now I should probably keep going slowly. I don’t know!

 

I didn’t sleep and I am extremely anxious. Oh god, how to stop worrying?

[[je...]]

If you had worse symptoms from the cut, I'm pretty sure you would've known it by now. Most of us can feel it and we definitely know when they kick in (and especially from such a big cut).

 

The thing is if benzo's were prescribed to treat a specific condition such as anxiety or insomnia it is very likely you'll experience it again. Benzo's are only symptomatic treatment, it doesn't treat the root cause. Mine was prescribed for muscle spasms and ever since I started tapering, the preexisting condition has resumed. So it's highly likely your anxiety and insomnia will get worse as the benzo get lower because it's not treating it anymore and your original condition is returning. It is best to try and find non-medical ways to treat these if possible.

 

I wouldn't necessarily measure my withdrawal symptoms only by anxiety or insomnia if I were you. If there are no other symptoms or they are very mild, then that's a pretty good sign. Also remember, you're not updosing by taking it daily. Updosing is when you take a higher dose than before. You are not, you are stabilizing. I would like to get some more input from others on how to proceed in your circumstances as I think your lack of symptoms are very encouraging.

[[Za...]]

Thank you very much, Jelly Baby. I really appreciate your help. I am so scared. This helped.

I made another 10% cut yesterday. Would you keep this slower pace, 10%?

[[Pa...]]

Hey Zazie123, I can see you’re distressed but let me assure you, you’re doing exactly what you need to be doing.  You started your taper and you’re making adjustments as you go based on your past use and your current symptoms.  Everyone struggles when they first start out, its tough finding the right method and just when you get comfortable with that, you sometimes have to switch it up.  Nothing you’ve done so far will cause you problems down the road, jelly baby is right, what you’ve been feeling so far is very encouraging.

 

Fear is one of our worst symptoms because it makes the rest of them worse, it can create stress which can increase symptom severity so do your best to neutralize it. We’ll figure this out together.

 

It looks like your symptoms may allow for a faster than recommended taper and since you’re worried about taking the drug every day and being on it for much longer, it might be time to speed it up, what do you think?

 

 

[[Za...]]

Thank you, Pamster!

Today I am super stressed and cannot function. I didn’t sleep. God, if I knew how to calm down. Meditation, positive talk, EFT, walk, I tried everything. Still anxious that I won’t sleep. i am anxious about the lowering of a dose - not good, I know!

But thanks for the encouragement.

How would you speed it up?

[[je...]]

Before we can help you we need your history of cuts and reductions with the dates. Like mine. Please can you Add your history/signature.

[[Za...]]

I added the signature.

Today is the second day of the second cut.. so I guess I will see tomorrow. My doctor told me to quit, that I am on placebo dose.. I don’t believe him.

If this second cut goes well, I would maybe try to go to 0.125. What do you think?

Thank you for help, Jelly Baby and Pamster.

[[je...]]

Yes, let's see how this next cut goes. You made an 11.5% cut if I'm correct. I think we need to give it a couple of days to see how you react especially coupled with the larger first cut. If this cut is good, then you can probably speed it up.

[[Pa...]]

A placebo dose, a baby dose, these descriptions make me crazy, they don’t understand how powerful these drugs are. 

[[Za...]]

I would like to ask moderators, I am on day 10 of the second cut.

But my doctor gave me Lexapro and it isn’t helping, anxiety worse, insomnia worse, emotional blunting, empty feeling like my brain doesn’t work..when I lower the dose, it is better. So I think it isn’t the klonopin cut.

I will probably stop using it. But can I make another klonopin cut at the same time? While tappering down Lexapro? I know it isn’t probably a good idea. But I am afraid to stay on the same dose of klonopin for long time.

[[Pa...]]

Just so you know, I didn’t taper so even being an admin, I don’t have all the answers.  I can offer my opinion based on reading posts but hopefully, others with experience will come along.

 

How long have you been on the Lexepro?  Your symptoms sound like they’re the result of your benzodiazepine reduction, can you tell us at what point in your taper do you begin to feel better, how many days past the cut?

[[Co...]]

A placebo dose, a baby dose, these descriptions make me crazy, they don’t understand how powerful these drugs are. 

 

Oh yes, the professor audiology here said 0.1 mg clonazepam is placebo for tinnitus distress. Then I realized something is wrong here. So many doctors are like 0.3 or 0.2 or 0.1 what does it matter, there's barely a difference. Then if you say 0.5 mg is equivalent to 10 mg diazepam some seem shocked cause they would max give 2 mg diazepam except my insane psychiatrist (which I actually only saw to ask for sick leave for burnout like withdrawal before) because she said 10 mg is not a big deal.

[[Co...]]

I have no experience with a combo of meds, Zazie, but it seems like you handle your clonazepam cuts well. Perhaps stop the one you started most recently first to see how it goes?