Not feeling ok

[[re...]]

I don't know what I'm doing as far as tapering goes.  I don't know what amount to taper from.  I  was on .5 mg lorazepam for ten years for insomnia but didn't take it every day and tried to get by with half a pill,  and  went maybe a week without any pill sometimes.  So I  thought I was not getting addicted.    Then I got covid and had trouble breathing,  and had a panic attack getting off of  Robitussin DM !  It seemed like a withdrawal to me.  Became hyper sensitized to all sensations to do with breathing,  such as even a plugged up nose.

 

Anyway I started taking  about 3 pills a day to keep the panic attacks away.  Pretty sure I got habituated to that after doing it five or six weeks but somedays I think I only took 2 pills.  On two or three days I took 4 pills a day.    So  now I have  decided I had better get serious about  getting off of this.  I  started trying to cut down to two pills a day.  3/4 pill in the morning,  1/2 pill in the afternoon,  and 3/4 pill at night.  But  it is hard to measure...I doubt I'm cutting accurately.

 

Some days I feel  pretty good,  but today I feel crazy.  I feel like maybe this is not withdrawal symptoms,  but losing my mind symptoms.  So  I just took a slightly bigger dose for midday.  a little more than half a pill I guess.  This feeling I have is either  a mental breakdown, or withdrawal symptoms.   

 

I may have jumped from 3 pills to 2 too fast but the last few days doing that have been not bad.  Maybe today is a fluke.  I really wish I had a dr who knew about this and could help me figure out how to proceed.  Is there a benzo withdrawal expert in the country that can help ?  Some one like Heather Ashton?   

 

My dr. says I have no addiction and that I'm having an " anxiety breakthrough."  At least she did call in a prescription yesterday which makes me feel like I have  a little more time to reduce my dose.  Am thinking a compounding pharmacy might help me.  I'm wondering ...if you cut down too fast,  do you feel it immediately or does it catch up with you in a few days? 

 

 

[[je...]]

I understand this process can be be very confusing. I've been at it for almost a year and sometimes my symptoms still confuse the life out of me. Generally when you start reducing your dose we recommend that you stabilize at a single dose first. Your brain needs consistency so you need to start tapering from a place of consistency.

 

Since you were fluctuating between 2-4 pills per day, I would recommend that you start out by taking 3 pills per day for a week or two before starting cutting.

 

This will give you a baseline to work from and assess your symptoms as well as allowing your body to stabilize at a specific dose.

 

I know it's daunting but I want to reassure you it's doable and you're going to be fine.

[[re...]]

Thanks.  Sometimes the Ativan seems to wear off in about four hours and sometimes I can go 8 hours without feeling bad.  Switching to Valium appeals to me as it would lessen the inter dose withdrawals.  But my dr. sees no need for that and prescribed an inadequate 2 mg dose of valium  which i don't think would work. 

I think the proof I'm addicted is that my mid day dose has made me feel better.  I seem to need it to feel ok.  The crazy feeling has lessened from about an 8 to about a 3. I really , really wish I had a doctor who would work with me.  Almost all the drug treatment centers I read of seem to want to get people off benzos fast. 

 

 

[[Ha...]]

Hi Restorepeace, I am tapering from Lorazepam (Ativan) after 40 years of use, yes 40. I am down from 4mg last year to 0.7mg today. If I can do it you certainly can. I wish you well with your taper and healing. Sending healing hugs.

[[re...]]

Thank you , Hardy.  What method did you use to decrease your dose?    Did you doctor help?  A dr. who thinks it's ok to prescribe it may think there is no problem in getting off of it.  Did you suffer much  decreasing your dose?  If so,  how do you know what is reasonable suffering or too much suffering? 

[Guest [Ro...]]

Thanks.  Sometimes the Ativan seems to wear off in about four hours and sometimes I can go 8 hours without feeling bad.  Switching to Valium appeals to me as it would lessen the inter dose withdrawals.  But my dr. sees no need for that and prescribed an inadequate 2 mg dose of valium  which i don't think would work. 

I think the proof I'm addicted is that my mid day dose has made me feel better.  I seem to need it to feel ok.  The crazy feeling has lessened from about an 8 to about a 3. I really , really wish I had a doctor who would work with me.  Almost all the drug treatment centers I read of seem to want to get people off benzos fast.

 

Hi Restorepeace.  Could you try going to a different doctor?  I moved states and got a new doctor who I had never met.  I told her on day 1 that I was tapering myself off bentos and would like to do a long micro taper.  She thought that sounded fine since it was my idea. I didn't try to school her on benzos or withdrawal at all.  She does not believe in benzo withdrawal but seems to have no problem with a self guided path.  I've also updated her throughout the process to avoid a situation where she will not renew my script.  It's been a two year process and she's never questioned me about it. 

 

[[je...]]

If so,  how do you know what is reasonable suffering or too much suffering?

 

We generally refer to functionality during withdrawal meaning you're not feeling great but you're able to fulfil your daily duties. That is what you're trying to achieve. I know it's a fine line to tread. Personally I think if your goal is to minimize suffering then the best way for tapering is to start a slow taper to see how your body responds and then gently increase the rate if you want. That way you can determine your limit hopefully without too severe withdrawal.

 

I also went doctor shopping like Roger That just to get a doctor to prescribe for me after my original pdoc wanted me to taper in 6 weeks. I couldn't find a benzo wise doctor but I found a someone supportive who would let me taper at my own pace. The rest of the info and support I got all from here.

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Yes,  I've been searching the internet for doctors in my area and some outside my area.  I called one practice and they said they do not prescribe any benzos.    I have questions about  going to a new doc and giving them the name of my current doc...I'm afraid they'd tell her I  am trying to find a new doc,  when I am not yet committed to the new doc.  I feel like my relationship with my current doc is on shaky ground. 

But I think you pretty much are required to  sign over access to your medical records.

 

I am considering a psychiatrist,  but  my impression of them is that I could go in there with my agenda to taper off benzos and their agenda might be to put me on a psych drug I don't want and to label me with something dire.    Possibly a  regular counsellor would have access to  prescribing shrinks and would know whether or where I could find one who would taper.

 

Am really wanting to talk to the compounding pharmacy but also want to keep it private.,  not at this point getting back to my dr.  I guess the compounding pharmacy might require that my dr. ask them directly to do the tapering,  which she probably won't do.  It is an insult to her expertise that I think she'd  give me something addictive. 

 

That is good you all found supportive docs.  A lot of docs here are in big conglomerations...affiliated with universities,  and they seem to have policies about benzos that are strict.  Good for the general public,  but it doesn't help me.

[[Ha...]]

Hi Restore peace, my withdrawal is going as follows……..I was taking L pretty much as needed but on average 3mg per day so that’s where I started. The reason I had to withdraw was that they were no longer working and I was having frequent awful dark black episodes of depression. I also found I had sleep apnoea and L is a respiratory depressant so I had no choice. We’re supposed to withdraw slowly to retain functionality but I was not functioning much at all before I started to taper so decided to make some fairly big cuts early on. I went to 2.5mg and a few weeks later to 2mg. I went to stay with my sister as I couldn’t handle the ordinary stresses of being at home. My 2 sons were pleading with me to go to a Detox centre but I hated the thought of that so decided I would just get on with it myself. This really helped because no matter how bad the symptoms got I just told myself I was better off suffering with my loving sister’s support than in rehab. From 2mg I tapered 0.1mg per week using a pill grinder and micro scale. I now take 0.3mg at lunch and 0.4mg at night. My psychiatrist is fine prescribing them. She gave me Melatonin to aid sleep and it does. I am having the usual symptoms, insomnia, palpitations, anxiety and bad fatigue. Some days have been just awful but as I have no choice I just try to distract.  The great thing is that since I have been on a lower dose, the depression has gone! Wonderful! I don’t know how you define ‘tolerable’ suffering. I certainly would have taken extra L if I had a choice. Reading success stories on BB helps. I wish you well on your healing journey.

[[Ha...]]

Hi Restore peace, my withdrawal is going as follows……..I was taking L pretty much as needed but on average 3mg per day so that’s where I started. The reason I had to withdraw was that they were no longer working and I was having frequent awful dark black episodes of depression. I also found I had sleep apnoea and L is a respiratory depressant so I had no choice. We’re supposed to withdraw slowly to retain functionality but I was not functioning much at all before I started to taper so decided to make some fairly big cuts early on. I went to 2.5mg and a few weeks later to 2mg. I went to stay with my sister as I couldn’t handle the ordinary stresses of being at home. My 2 sons were pleading with me to go to a Detox centre but I hated the thought of that so decided I would just get on with it myself. This really helped because no matter how bad the symptoms got I just told myself I was better off suffering with my loving sister’s support than in rehab. From 2mg I tapered 0.1mg per week using a pill grinder and micro scale. I now take 0.3mg at lunch and 0.4mg at night. My psychiatrist is fine prescribing them. She gave me Melatonin to aid sleep and it does. I am having the usual symptoms, insomnia, palpitations, anxiety and bad fatigue. Some days have been just awful but as I have no choice I just try to distract.  The great thing is that since I have been on a lower dose, the depression has gone! Wonderful! I don’t know how you define ‘tolerable’ suffering. I certainly would have taken extra L if I had a choice. Reading success stories on BB helps. I wish you well on your healing journey.

[[Ha...]]

Don’t know why that posted twice?!

[[re...]]

Hardy,

Sounds like  you did cut back pretty drastically at first.  I don't know how I'd keep the faith,  as you did,  that you were just passing through the misery.  When I'm in the midst of  pain like that  I internalize it,  think it means something is terribly wrong with me,  or won't get better and this is how it'll always be.  When I'm not in pain I'm not that negative.    But it is amazing you could keep going and had support.

 

I have good support in my husband ,  and I didn't mean to tell my daughter but I did and she was kind about it.  I think we are a bit closer just from this being in the open.   

Where do you find a micro scale ?  My husband has a scale for grams but last night it would not  register the small amounts.  I want to avoid that kind of intense misery... isn't it possible if you are gradual enough?

[[Di...]]

Hi Restore,

I am bad about doing the same thing you do about your health.  I have gotten a little better I'm realizing more that the symptoms I'm having are from the benzo wd.  My main symptoms are anxiety, stomach issues, stiff/sore muscles in my neck and shoulders.  My stomach issues got so bad that had an EGD, CT with contrast, blood work Ultra sound and xrays...all was good.  I have been tapering for 16 months the doctor I had started me off way too fast then I found BB.  I actually did ok the first 3 months then the fast cuts caught up with me and I got scared and backed down.  I got yanked around on my meds by the doctor and it caused me alot of grief.  I wish that I had found BB before I started my taper.  The best advice I have for you is do your research on here ask lots of questions before you make a plan.  You have already gotten some good info from Jelly, Hardy and Roger.  Its a hard journey but you can do it.  There is an ativan thread under Support Groups its not very active but has tons of good info on there I have read it from the beginning many times.  Wishing you all the best and know that we are all here for you.

Hugs Diane

[[Ha...]]

Hi Restorepeace, I feel for you. It’s all a bit scary. If you taper very slowly, say 5% every week or 2 weeks you might have minimal withdrawal symptoms. I guess you’re bound to have some but they can be mild. Some folk withdraw quite easily and we don’t hear about them! It doesn’t matter how slow you go. Find out what your body can tolerate. There is masses of info on Withdrawal Support Taper Plans here on BB. I got my Milligram scale from Amazon. Just a basic digital scale that weighs 0.001g to 50g. The pill grinder is just a basic one from Amazon too or you can use a pestle and mortar. Please be reassured that you can do this. You have amazing support from your husband and daughter. They can remind you that your symptoms are temporary and indeed are evidence that your body is healing. Every day is a day nearer to feeling better. Sending healing hugs.

[[re...]]

Thanks Dianedeedee and Hardy.  Will get a scale asap  that can measure such small amounts .  There's another website for benzo info I found,  might be benzoinfocoalition  I'm not sure.  It has a lot of good info but also a lot of  people have posted very scary and grim  reports on how withdrawal went for them.  Almost all of them say it's pure hell.  I really  hoped with a slow taper that it would not be hell.  Glad you think it can be managed without it being horrible,  Hardy.  I think I want to have a little optimism that it might not be too bad.

I do feel a bit in a hurry because  the amount of time I was on a higher dose is now about six weeks,  so I hoped to  turn it around before the higher dose was any more entrenched.  But  from what I've read it sounds like going too fast is just going to be self defeating.  Was hoping for 2 pills a day.  Maybe could try for 2 1/2.   

 

All this has shaken me up so much,  it's really a wake up call on health in general.  Don't want to neglect physical stuff to the point it presents a big problem staring you in the face.  So I'm eating a bit healthier and less,  and walking some.

[[Ha...]]

Sounds like you have more of a plan now RPeace. I joined 2 Facebook groups about benzos but got rid after a week, too many horror stories. That’s what I like about BB, you’re allowed to moan and rant but generally it’s all positive. It can be positive for you too RP, your aim is to restore peace and I’m sure you will. Please keep us posted as you travel to tranquility. Healing hugs.

[[Di...]]

Restore you can do this.  It's very possible with a slow taper you won't have bad wd.  Have you checked out the Planning your Withdrawal board?  You might find it very helpful.  I try not to read anything that would be upsetting.

[[re...]]

I don't think I've looked at the planning withdrawal board.  Will do so.  I just picked up a prescription for Ativan that my dr. prescribed a couple days ago.    She wrote it for 45  .5 Ativan pills to take 3 x a day.  So  that lasts about 15 days.  No communication from her about what I'm supposed to do after that.  No refills.  So she thinks you can take 3 a day and then that's it? 

 

I  contacted an addiction  dr.  in a town  about 2 hrs away.  I know you're not supposed to use the word,  " addiction".  but what else can I say?  A  substance abuse doctor.  No,  a substance dependency doctor.  Anyway she does go by the Ashton Manual and believes in a slow taper.  So I am interested.  Have to find out cost.    It might be nice if she could just do a consultation and advise my internist  the best way to help me get off the stuff.  But my dr.  is rigid,  non empathetic,  uninformed,  and to me,  careless...because  she doesn't care enough to let me know what the plan is.  She just thinks there is absolutely no issue with benzos which is absurd.    I mean,  it would be nice if I'm not very dependent on these but  there's no way to assume I wouldn't have a traumatic or dangerous withdrawal.  How can she make such assumptions?

 

If I can't see the dr.  who does the slow taper,  I may have to get off Ativan very quickly. 

[[Di...]]

Oh no Restore please check out that board right away there are a lot of very knowledgeable buddies on there that can help.  I hope you can connect with that doctor that would be awesome for you.  It is so hard to find benzo wise doctors so glad you are checking.  Please keep us updated.

Wishing you the best.

[[Ha...]]

Oh no please don’t just stop taking them. I hope you can find someone, doctor or psych nurse to prescribe more so you can do a long taper. It really is the only way. The evidence is all over BB. Can you take a copy of the Ashton Manual to show your Dr? Really hope this works out for you. Very best wishes.

[[re...]]

Yes, it's not a good situation,  and makes me anxious.    I have a hunch the dr. in the mountains is expensive.  So if I go around trying to find a dr.  who will prescribe some of these they will say I'm "  seeking drugs".  I am! 

 

Just awhile ago I felt like I was having a mini withdrawal.  Really felt bad,  and shaky.  Took 1/2 pill and now am feeling better.  Could it be psychological?  It just seems  like more than a coincidence that I start feeling bad about  five or six hours after I take a pill.  If it was just general anxiety,  like my doc says,  seems like it wouldn't happen right around the same time.  She refuses to believe this could be addiction....makes it my problem,  all in my head.  This is unacceptable to me.  I think she's really protecting her image of herself as a good dr and if I'm addicted,  she was part of it so she denies it.  We are at odds with each other.

  I will be looking for more options.  Will check out that topic you mentioned, Diane.

Hardy,  I did take part of the Ashton Manual with me to my last appt. with her.  She didn't want to even look at it.  Said I don't need to do all that stuff.  It's just a big assumption.  I have a little time...no need to panic yet... but can't wait around. 

 

[[Di...]]

You could be having interdose wd.  Are you on a schedule?  I dose 6 am, 11 am, 4 pm and 9 pm.  I'm using the Lorazepam intensol liquid that I delute with water.  I am so sorry your doctor is such a jerk.  Hoping that other doctor is affordable for you.

Sending you hugs ❤

[[re...]]

Diane,

Your schedule is about what mine is working out to be.  I seem to need another dose about every 5 hrs though sometimes can go 8.  What dose are you on?  Do you consider switching to Valium?  I  spoke with the dr's office in the mountains this morning and found out it's affordable for me.  Not covered by my insurance I think but the  cost is ok.  This lady is a psychiatrist with a lot of experience helping people with benzo withdrawal  and with other drugs,  and she believes in the Ashton method,  so  I asked them to send me the paperwork.  It eases my mind a bit because I probably will have help,  and good help,  but  I do see that the schedule for withdrawing completes it in about  18 weeks,  which  seems like it might be a bit fast.  Lots slower than  most of the treatment centers around here.  Any thoughts on doing it in 18 weeks?  I can always tell her upfront that that sounds fast to me. 

 

I think I'm getting  inter dose withdrawals plus tolerance,  where I don't feel ok sometimes even with a 3/4  pill.  I feel like I might go into a rapidly spiralling upward wish for more of it.    I am not relaxed today...trying to  get moving and get a few things done around here but  constantly  in a state of  anxious arousal ...maybe freaking myself out about all this.

 

I called my internist office just to ask what they intend to do about that 15 day  prescription they gave me.  I asked if they were going to cut me off or renew the prescription.  Nurse or whoever it was said  it's a controlled substance ,  so  small prescription,  but  they think I should try not to take it  some days and  then  call back if I need more.  I said I don't know if I can manage that at all.  I said the doc is not listening to me.  They seem to be utterly ignorant of  safe ways to withdraw.

 

The doc thinks I'm just having an " anxiety breakthrough"  whatever that is...nervous breakdown I suppose.  And  I do wonder  how much of this is  drug problem and how much is something else going on with me.  If I'm having a mental episode,  maybe it's the wrong time to stop taking Ativan,  I don't know.  However,  it isn't working as well and I'm just lately taking more ,  not less.  Was taking less for awhile.  Poor husband really wants me to  cut down on it.  He understands about  doing it gradually.  He is as kind as can be. 

 

 

[[Di...]]

Hi Restore,

I am so glad you will be able to see that doctor at least you have a good option now.  Dry dosing for me would be .09mg 3x/day and .18mg at bedtime since I use the liquid I take 1 ml intensol mix with 299 ml water this is enough for a few days.  My liquid dose is 14.8 ml 3x/day 29.8 ml at bedtime.  I went to the liquid because I didn't feel confident enough to cut the pills and use a scale but many do.  I didn't want to co to valium because it can increase depression and cause stomach issues...I already deal with both of those.  Eighteen weeks seems too fast Ashton also says that you need to go at what pace is best for you.  It really sounds like interdose and dependence or tolerance that is what happened to me but I didn't know it at the time and neither did my doctor she kept increasing the dose...wrong thing to do!!!  Its important to get on a steady dose it's not good to bounce back and forth it makes things worse.  I hope some of my experience helps you I sure wish I had known then what I know now.

So glad you are checking out all of your options and getting informed.

Its wonderful that your husband is so supportive I have been blessed too.

Sending you hugs❤

[[Ho...]]

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?board=163.0

 

This might be helpful to read and agree getting support at tapering would be helpful. i can move this post there if you prefer.