Reduced to much

[[bo...]]

If I were in your shoes, I would consider making a fresh batch daily or making a small batch that would last 3 to 5 days at most.  I would also consider making a more dilute liquid (e.g. 0.01mg/mL instead of 0.1mg/mL).

Can you show me how to do this ? thank you

[[Li...]]

I do not have personal experience with using Rivotril drops so please regard my response as just one option of many to consider.  My design point was to devise an approach that would be similar to the one you are currently using but would produce a smaller batch of do-it-yourself (DIY) liquid at a lower concentration (i.e. 0.01mg/mL versus 0.1mg/mL).

 

Another option to consider is a variation of an approach used by another member (we have several members who have used/are using the Rivotril drops). See link below for one example.

 

The following procedure will yield 20mLs of a DIY liquid with a concentration of approximately 0.01mg/mL.  Your starting dose will be 6mLs (i.e. 0.06mg) so 20mLs would last for 3 days.

 

Procedure:

 

Dispense 20mLs of distilled water in a glass mixing jar with an air-tight, leak-proof lid.

 

Add 2 drops of the Rivotril to the water.

 

Put the lid on the jar and shake the Rivotril/water mixture well.

 

Remove the lid and quickly measure your dose. To begin, use a 10mL syringe to measure 6mLs of the liquid.

 

Ingest the liquid.

 

Rinse the syringe with distilled water by drawing the water into the barrel and ejecting it several times. (Some members ingest the rinse water whereas others do not.  Just be consistent whatever you decide.)

 

Replace the lid on the mix jar and store it for use the next day.

 

In the absence of credible evidence indicating otherwise, I suggest you follow the instructions provided by the drug manufacturer for storage. The Rivotril drops pamphlet I found online indicates the liquid should be stored in a cool, dry place away from moisture, heat or sunlight.  Cool is defined as a temperature below 25°C. Refrigeration is not listed as a requirement.  (Although refrigeration has the potential to inhibit microbial growth, it also has the potential to cause drug precipitation.)

 

Hold your dose constant at 6mLs (0.06mg) for 7-10 days to evaluate how you react to the new liquid.  Be sure to keep a daily taper log. 

 

If all goes well, you could consider making a ‘small enough for you’ reduction in dose.  Your history suggests caution is warranted. So you might try a 5% reduction to 5.7mL of the liquid. 

 

Link:

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=245494.msg3236429#msg3236429

 

[[bo...]]

I think your method seems more simple for me. I also have pill form from before, but would have to get a scale

[[bo...]]

Can I dissolve pill form klonopin with water?  I don't know if I can get the liquid form today

[[Pa...]]

It won't dissolve but it will disperse into the liquid and as long as you shake it vigorously before ingesting you should be okay. 

 

The problem I see you encountering if you currently use the drops is it may be difficult to get the dose equivalency right and members have mentioned that pills and liquids have different characteristics so you may experience unexpected sensations but if this your only option then I'm sure you can make it work.

[[bo...]]

It won't dissolve but it will disperse into the liquid and as long as you shake it vigorously before ingesting you should be okay. 

 

The problem I see you encountering if you currently use the drops is it may be difficult to get the dose equivalency right and members have mentioned that pills and liquids have different characteristics so you may experience unexpected sensations but if this your only option then I'm sure you can make it work.

ok I was able to get the liquid, my question now is, will reducing more of the dose help my jump as I'm at 1mg of valium

[[Pa...]]

I don't have experience with tapering and I've not kept up on your thread but I see Libertas has provided some excellent suggestions. 

[[bo...]]

I think your method seems more simple for me. I also have pill form from before, but would have to get a scale

I did your method and I feel like I'm drinking water.

Also not feeling very well.

feel off like on drugs  and ataxia again

[[Pa...]]

I think your method seems more simple for me. I also have pill form from before, but would have to get a scale

I did your method and I feel like I'm drinking water.

Also not feeling very well.

feel off like on drugs  and ataxia again

 

I'm not sure what you're trying to tell us here, are you saying you don't want to continue using liquid titration? 

[[Li...]]

Just checking … how much of the liquid did you ingest?  6.0 milliliters or 0.6 milliliters?

 

Again, I do not have personal experience with the Rivotril drops you are using. However, per the drug information pamphlet below, the drops contain the following ingredients:

 

Clonazepam (the Active Pharmaceutical Ingredient/pure drug powder)

Saccharin sodium

Propylene glycol

Glacial acetic acid

Peach flavour PHL-014725

Brilliant blue FCF

 

Given that the DIY liquid you are testing is more dilute than the one you were making before, the taste and color will be different.

 

This is your taper so it’s totally up to you as to how you wish to proceed.

 

Link:

Rivotril - NPS MedicineWise

https://www.nps.org.au/medicine-finder/rivotril-tablets

 

 

 

[[bo...]]

Just checking … how much of the liquid did you ingest?  6.0 milliliters or 0.6 milliliters?

 

Again, I do not have personal experience with the Rivotril drops you are using. However, per the drug information pamphlet below, the drops contain the following ingredients:

 

Clonazepam (the Active Pharmaceutical Ingredient/pure drug powder)

Saccharin sodium

Propylene glycol

Glacial acetic acid

Peach flavour PHL-014725

Brilliant blue FCF

 

Given that the DIY liquid you are testing is more dilute than the one you were making before, the taste and color will be different.

 

This is your taper so it’s totally up to you as to how you wish to proceed.

 

Link:

Rivotril - NPS MedicineWise

https://www.nps.org.au/medicine-finder/rivotril-tablets

I have been  using  Rivotril all my taper,  this symptoms are not new to me it could be hormone changes, stress, the weather or new batch. its a 10ml syringe so use 6ml mark

[[bo...]]

Is it posible that I reached tolerance? that is why this low doses sends me to hell I have been tapering for a long time 3 years .

[[Pa...]]

What is your current dose?

[[bo...]]

What is your current dose?

1mg of valium

[[Pa...]]

Thanks bonty, but I thought you were on Rivotril, can you clarify?

[[bo...]]

Thanks bonty, but I thought you were on Rivotril, can you clarify?

yes rivotril the equal is 1mg valium

[[Pa...]]

I wonder if its time to consider ending your taper, at some point the drug fails to provide any therapeutic value.  I've watched other members talk about intense symptoms when they get to very low doses and question if they're in the first phase of recovery which we call the acute phase.

[[Li...]]

Pamster’s point is well worth considering.  If memory serves, your current dose is 0.06mg of Rivotril/clonazepam. 

 

When you have a minute, would you please update your signature with your current dose and dosing schedule?  It would also be helpful to include the dates and amounts of your last 3 or so reductions.

[[Pa...]]

According to this calculator, you estimated the equivalence correctly.  https://clincalc.com/benzodiazepine/default.aspx

[[bo...]]

I wonder if its time to consider ending your taper, at some point the drug fails to provide any therapeutic value.  I've watched other members talk about intense symptoms when they get to very low doses and question if they're in the first phase of recovery which we call the acute phase.

I see  thank you so still going slower is necessary to avoid discomfort,  correct? yrs right

it just to avoid wd. but I'm confused what to do

thank you

[[bo...]]

The suggested quit dose for clonazepam per Ashton is 0.025mg.  However, we have members who taper all the way to 0mg.

I'm confused if why would doing to 0.25mg be better than 0.5mg ?

[[Li...]]

The suggested quit dose for clonazepam per Ashton is 0.025mg.  However, we have members who taper all the way to 0mg.

I'm confused if why would doing to 0.25mg be better than 0.5mg ?

 

Are you asking for the rationale for using a quit (jump) dose of 0.025mg versus 0.05mg clonazepam?

[[bo...]]

yes

[[Li...]]

Re: the source of the suggested 0.025mg quit dose for clonazepam ….

 

Per Ashton:

 

Getting off the last tablet: Stopping the last few milligrams is often viewed as particularly difficult. This is mainly due to fear of how you will cope without any drug at all. In fact, the final parting is surprisingly easy. People are usually delighted by the new sense of freedom gained. In any case the 1mg or 0.5mg diazepam per day which you are taking at the end of your schedule is having little effect apart from keeping the dependence going. Do not be tempted to spin out the withdrawal to a ridiculously slow rate towards the end (such as 0.25mg each month). Take the plunge when you reach 0.5mg daily; full recovery cannot begin until you have got off your tablets completely.

 

Ashton is referring to diazepam/Valium.  Per Ashton, 0.5mg of diazepam is equivalent to 0.025mg of clonazepam.

 

Re: the rationale for tapering to a lower dose before quitting …

 

Dr. Mark Horowitz, a researcher who studies how to safely taper off antidepressants and other psychiatric medications, explains this well in the following video:

 

Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management

 

View the segment that begins around the 29:10 minute mark — “Where are we now with understanding how to stop antidepressants?” The neurobiological concepts discusssed are also relevant to tapering benzodiazepines.

 

Edit: typos

[[bo...]]

ok thxs  I feel quit off, very small dose 0.045,  my vision  and energy are off but think should at least get to 5mg Valium