Reinstated advice with this Valium

[[Pa...]]

Well, he went to go get it but we are going nsure I’m going to take it. We are just in such a tizzy about wondering what to do. We are trying to weigh the pros and cons. According to you and a few others on here it seems like it’s not going to help much. We just don’t know. Is 1 mg even enough? Do you go by your starting dose or do you go by what you jumped off of?

 

I think after 4 months off the drug there is no way to know what it will take to pull your body out of this state.  When reinstating with the intent of tapering off again its best to start low and with Valium taking so long to become fully realized in your system it will take some time to figure out what your optimum dose will be.

[[Su...]]

Do you think I was kindled? I took this medicine 13 years ago on my mom died and didn’t have too much of a hard time coming off of it just a little shaky. I have lost over 47 pounds in the last six months. Is this a sign of kindling? I have no appetite at all.

[[Su...]]

Are there some people that just go back on the medicine for years and years and till they’re in a better mental and life state?

[[Ja...]]

Are there some people that just go back on the medicine for years and years and till they’re in a better mental and life state?

 

Life is not the problem. If you’re waiting for life to stop sucking it’s gonna be a long wait. The only way to make life good is a change of perspective. The only way to change your mental state is through being dedicated to therapy. The way you feel right now is due to nervous system damage. If you knew you were doing this to your nervous system would you have started taking this drug? Well now you do know. Is your plan now to go back on and see if you can pile a few more years of damage on top of this damage you are already feeling? What do you imagine that withdrawal is gonna feel like?

[[Ja...]]

Do you think I was kindled? I took this medicine 13 years ago on my mom died and didn’t have too much of a hard time coming off of it just a little shaky. I have lost over 47 pounds in the last six months. Is this a sign of kindling? I have no appetite at all.

 

Yes it is. This is exactly what kindling is. Every time you withdraw it is worse that the time before. The term comes from a phenomenon seen in alcohol withdrawal. So you can see how it stands to reason being that you have experienced this already that if you reinstate then next time could be even worse. I use the term could because nothing here is absolute but I would rate your chances at pretty high being you just said it has already happened to you.

[[Su...]]

Well, I know several people that are on benzos long term. I’m not saying I agree with it. I’m just saying if I could put off the pain and suffering for 10 years, when I’m a little older, and retired, it might be easier to deal with. So I guess my question is, if I would plan on going back on Ativan for another 10 years, to get my life back, Until I am at a better place to Taper, maybe it would make sense? I wonder how many people just do that.

 

Really just curious. It seems like I bet a lot that do. I can’t handle this. But I do understand what you’re saying. But what do you think about that? Do you know stories of people that I’ve done done just that?

[[Pa...]]

There seem to be many people in this world who can take the drug indefinitely without problems, there are also those who can eliminate them without much trouble but not for those of us who will suffer with benzodiazepine withdrawal syndrome. 

 

I don't know if it's genetics but this is the way it is for us, and if you're like us then its doubtful you'll be able to do what you hope to do.  You'll reach tolerance to the drug, have to go higher in dose until a doctor will no longer prescribe enough to keep you from feeling symptoms and you'll be right back where you are now, only as Jack37 says, most likely worse off.

 

You may not be like us and I hope you're not but from what I've seen of your situation thus far, I'm afraid you are.  I'm so very sorry for your pain.

 

 

[[Ja...]]

I’m trying to say this as lightly as I can and remember that I can not predict the future. I am just doing math here. You took benzos once and stopped with no problem. You took them again and tried to stop and have been in hell for four months. There are people who can take these drugs indefinitely and their body in unaffected. Logically speaking if you were one of those people you would not be so sick right now. My guess is that if you were to try what you are talking about with your personal withdrawal record here that you will be stuck on benzos permanently. I don’t mean happily ever after. I mean hitting severe tolerance withdrawal in a couple of years, feeling exactly like you feel right now but still on the drug. Coming off at that point? Probably not. I just don’t want to see you suffer unnecessarily. I’m not gonna say much more about. I’ve said everything I have to say on the issue. I would suggest you do some forum searches on kindling and maybe search “regret reinstating” or something like that so you understand the risks. Whatever you decide to do I hope it turns out to be the right choice for you. I am wishing you the best here.

[[or...]]

I just want to chime  in here with a note of caution. Summer, you imagine that you could go back on Ativan and then in 10 years when you feel "better" you could taper? I'll tell you what will happen in those 10 years. Most likely. Because it happened to me and so many others buddies here. In fact, it's what brought many of us us here. Tolerance. Eventually benzos stop working. And then you have the nasty choice of taking more to feel better or starting a taper.

 

I've cold-turkeyed xanax and it was miserable.  But only 6 months of misery. I had all the s/x you are talking about, but I persevered. And got to feeling well. Then, like a fool I went back on Ativan due to a life crisis. What a mess that was. I never ever felt better on the new benzo. I never "stabilized" ---  the interdose w/ds were horrible. Undoubtedly I was kindled. So you see? Going back on a benzo often does not work.

 

I urge you to think carefully about this. If I'd stayed off benzos after my xanax cold turkey instead of grabbing for another benzo, I could have saved myself about 5 years of hell. None of us has 5 years to sacrifice.

 

What you're experiencing WILL get better. And as Pamster suggests, try to distract yourself. We all had to do that. Write down your s/x -- what's getting better, what's the same,  what's new. And yes there will be new s/x. Expect the unexpected.

 

So that's all I have to say. Except for god's sake -- if you decide to start valium -- start it at the correct amount. 2.5 mgs. You will be in a serious world of hurt with 1 mg.

 

Good luck to you.

 

Katz

 

 

[[Su...]]

Thanks for the input. Yes I agree, I’m not sure why the doctor is saying 1 mg. My husband went to go pick it up but we were going to do the correct dose of 2.5 if we attempt. I just keep thinking that maybe if I go back on to taper really really really really slow, that I can least function enough to enjoy my life.

[[Su...]]

Well he got it, but right now my mental symptoms aren’t so bad. Just a physical ones. I can almost handle the physical ones not the mental. Any idea how long the mental ones will last? What I mean by mental is the intrusive thoughts and fear and almost paranoia.

[[or...]]

Do you understand that you will probably develop tolerance to your dose, be white-knuckling rotten s/x, longing for your next dose, and be faced with the prospect of having to increase just to keep the s/x at bay? Or maybe start a taper under far from ideal circumstances as the 2.5 mgs becomes 3 then 5 and maybe 10 and you say okay this it it . . . I'm tapering? Think of all the lost time. This exact thing happened to a buddy of mine.  Then it will be the benzo in  control and not you. The ideal slow taper you wish for? I think you're suffering from (with all due respect) magical thinking. Everyone wants their benzo mess to go away, but benzos have their own plans for us.

 

Anyhow, best to you.

 

Katz

 

 

[[or...]]

About this, Summer:

 

What I mean by mental is the intrusive thoughts and fear and almost paranoia.

 

No one can tell you how long. But unlike the physical s/x, you have some control over these. Coping techniques can be learned. You can tamp down your fear. Do you have a therapist? Mine helped me with my fear and anxiety so much. No, she didn't know anything about benzo w/d but she sure knew all about fear/panic/anxiety and intrusive thoughts. These are just feelings . . . and helping you with feeling is what therapists do. Not psychiatrists. Therapists.

 

Or you can learn to meditate. Or use the app Headspace. Or go to Youtube and find audios/videos to help you with panic and fear. Summer, there are so many things you yourself can do. I tried dozes of things . . . and many of them worked!

 

Congrats on not taking the valium. imo that's a road you won't come back from.

 

Now, what about being proactive with your fear and panic? Maybe others will chime in here with things that have worked for them.

 

Best,

 

Katz

[[Su...]]

The fear and intrusive thoughts come and go. Today they’re a little bit better than they have been. But the last few weeks have been really really tough with us. So I’m hoping that things will start to calm down a bit. The physical symptoms I can actually handle for the most part. I don’t really like the top of the head pressure burning feeling but that comes and goes. The burning skin is not good but it’s tolerable compared to the mental symptoms. The mental symptoms really put me over the edge. They are just so intense and the constant worry and fear and paranoia gets old after a while.

[[Jo...]]

Hi

You won't get any relief from 1 mg it's a baby dosage you better off without this dose or a higher dose if you can't take the pain maybe try 5 mg and if its too much lower the dose

[[or...]]

You won't get any relief from 1 mg it's a baby dosage you better off without this dose or a higher dose if you can't take the pain maybe try 5 mg and if its too much lower the dose

 

We've already told her that her equivalent dose of valium is 2.5 mgs. So she knows this.

 

And it's not helpful to opine that she'd be "better off" without this dose. Yeah, in a perfect world where she'd never taken it. But she's stuck on .25 mgs of xanax. Theref she is. What is she to do? Cold turkey?

 

As well, I don't think it's very responsible of you to prescribe a "higher dose" for her. (That she can then lower lol). We are here to help each other by sharing our experiences. You are not her doctor . . . nor are you sharing any personal experiences (or those of your buddies) with a "higher dose".

 

I don't know why you posted.

 

 

Katz

 

 

[[Ka...]]

Hi Summer,

 

I was also short term lorazepam user 1mg for 5 weeks, tapered 4 weeks and jumped almost 9 months ago.

 

All the symptoms you listed are very common, especially the head pressure and tinnitus. All the symptoms you feel are due to the brain healing and waking up all that suppressed GABA. So, try to think positive when feeling horrible, because that is a sign of healing.

 

I would not reinstate after 4 months off. You were on such a low dose for a very short time, and look how strong those pills were, causing months of symptoms 😔. Are you sure you want that poison back in your body? You might be back to square one. Eventually you will still have to jump again and might experience acute symptoms all over…

 

I would hang in there, you are probably closer to being healed than you think.

 

I am still experiencing windows and waves, never thought 9 months later I would still be dealing with this, but it is what it is….

 

Hope u have better days ahead.

 

Karla

 

 

[[Su...]]

I just talk to a pharmacist actually two of them, and they suggest for quality of life to go back on Valium 1 mg and be on it for a while then taper down from there when the time is right. I’m not sure if they know what they’re doing but I can’t function at all like this. I haven’t showered in weeks, I can’t take care of my family, I can’t go to work, and I’m just feel like I’m in a big brain fog the symptoms of tinnitus, burning skin, burning spine, or just too much. It’s even hard to leave the house. I have no appetite and haven’t been able to eat right. Basically had to force myself to eat and I’ve lost over 40 pounds. There’s got to be people that go back on the stuff for a while

[[or...]]

If you are going to reinstate, why not go back no the correct dose? 2.5 mgs of valium is the equivalent dose. The pharmacists you talked to are giving you incorrect information.

 

Here's a benzo calculator you can use if you don't believe what we are telling you, as you don't seem to

 

https://clincalc.com/Benzodiazepine/

 

Going back on a smaller than equivalent dose will not produce an easier taper.  I understand you long for a better quality of life, but imo you are not going to get it by doing what you plan.

 

My advice? Hang in there. Taper down from your xanax. Put up with the s/x . . . we all had to. And then they'll be over.

 

Summer, you seem think that 1 mg of valium will give you the longed-for "quality of life". I don't think it will. However, you have to go your own way. 

 

Best,

 

Katz

[[Su...]]

Hi. I have not been on the .25 Ativan for four months. I did it cold turkey and then went back on to taper but did it too quickly. I have not taken a benzo for four months.

[[Ha...]]

2.5mg might actually be too much. From my experience trying to reinstate I couldn't tolerate even 0.5mg valium. I think it depends how sensitised your CNS has become. I would air on the side of caution personally and start low. It's easier to increase your dose if tolerated than taking too much.

 

Also it was mentioned you had an adverse reaction to an AD. This is likely to be contributing to your symptoms. Again from personal experience an AD sent me into a whole new world of pain. If you go over to savingantidepressants there's information on this, it's actually not uncommon for people not in benzo WD to suffer from adverse reactions from anywhere between 3 months and a few years unfortunately.

 

These reactions also leave your CNS sensitive, so going with a low dose to"test" would be sensible IMHO

 

Edit: the post on adverse reactions

 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/5280-immediate-adverse-reactions-to-an-antidepressant-or-within-a-few-doses-how-long-for-recovery/

 

Also you might find this information on reinstatement useful. It's aimed at antidepressants, but covers how your CNS could be sensitised and why starting low is normally advised. It also covers how it may not work. I've been down the road you are heading and I'd personally try to wait it out. But it's your choice. Hopefully reading through some more information can help you

 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/7562-about-reinstating-and-stabilizing-to-reduce-withdrawal-symptoms/

 

 

[[or...]]

2.5mg might actually be too much.

 

I would follow a benzo conversion table. Ashton has a good one. I don't think freelancing with benzos is ever a good idea.

 

Look  Summer . . the danger of starting too low is this: you'll be expecting a long-acting benzo to "cover" for what a short acting benzo was doing. Valium takes a while to build up in your system, so it's not as though you'll get instant, equivalent relief. And if you start too low, what kind of relief can you expect when the valium evens out? You'll always be playing catch up.

 

I crossed from a short acting benzo (Ativan) to a long acting one (valium) and was extremely uncomfortable (panic, anxiety) as the valium tried valiantly to cover for the ativan. Finally things evened out, but it took weeks. And I crossed to the correct dose.

 

Hey, Summer, do what you want. You've had plenty of advice and several personal experiences.

 

Best,

 

Katz

[[Ha...]]

2.5mg might actually be too much.

 

I would follow a benzo conversion table. Ashton has a good one. I don't think freelancing with benzos is ever a good idea.

 

Look  Summer . . the danger of starting too low is this: you'll be expecting a long-acting benzo to "cover" for what a short acting benzo was doing. Valium takes a while to build up in your system, so it's not as though you'll get instant, equivalent relief. And if you start too low, what kind of relief can you expect when the valium evens out? You'll always be playing catch up.

 

I crossed from a short acting benzo (Ativan) to a long acting one (valium) and was extremely uncomfortable (panic, anxiety) as the valium tried valiantly to cover for the ativan. Finally things evened out, but it took weeks. And I crossed to the correct dose.

 

Hey, Summer, do what you want. You've had plenty of advice and several personal experiences.

 

Best,

 

Katz

 

The conversion table is used for crossover if I'm not mistaken. The OP is not crossing over, she has been off for 4 months, and not currently taking Xanax as you've previously stated. Reinstatement isn't as straight forward as just looking at a conversion table. I'm not "freelancing" with doses, I'm simply suggesting cautious approach

[[or...]]

Ashton's conversion table is conservative. The link I posted earlier is not for crossover and suggests a range of 2.5 mgs to 3.8.

 

I explained the danger of starting too low. I myself got seriously "in the weeds" at one point in my taper by following bad advice about equivalencies. That's all.

 

Caution is admirable . . . when it is based on science. (Oh, and I'm quite aware that she's not crossing over. Pulleeze).  And as a matter of fact Ashton's conversion table has nothing to do with crossovers . . . it's just a table that converts various benzos. It's here fyi:

 

https://www.benzo.org.uk/bzequiv.htm

 

Let's stop  arguing Having. You have your own ideas based on your experiences. I have mine (and I have some science on my side).

 

Only Summer can decide what's best for her. Let's let her do that.

 

K

 

I jus

[[Su...]]

Hi, I am completely off the benzo’s though. I have been off for four months. So I’m basically restarting. I guess I’m not understanding the whole conversion thing. But the doctor gave me was 1 mg. My husband wants me to start it right now or tonight. I want to but I’m scared