Regarding the Removed Threads Referencing Baylissa Frederick

[[Co...]]

This has true meaning and I thank you for it, Jeff.

 

Please refer to my previous reply.

[[Si...]]

This will have to be a short reply. I will respond, specifically, from the counselling perspective, because this is the one I understand best.

 

A good counsellor does not need to understand the minutia of your medical condition. Good counselling is not about imparting great advice and sage truths. What good counselling is about is helping you explore your situation, for you to better understand yourself, and to find your own solutions to what ails you. The problem (from the perspective of counselling) is not so much withdrawal itself, but its psychological effects, how they mount up over time, and how you might better react to this stress. It is about reframing the problem and and having a sympathetic, non-judgemental ear. The unqualified and unpracticed in counselling will fall into all manner of traps, immediately and repeatedly. And, just like any other profession, some people - no matter their level of training - will never make good counsellors.

 

My point about professional indemnity insurance and professional oversight is that they are vitally important to protect people from charlatans, people who are 'qualified' but severely fall short of professionalism, and for recourse (and, potentially, compensation) when things go wrong. Every counsellor will have therapeutic relationships which go astray. A good counsellor will help you find a more suitable counsellor/therapist in such a situation. When there is actual wrongdoing by a counsellor, there had better be a process in place for the client to find recourse. This is not (practically) possible if the counsellor is not registered with a professional body with the necessary teeth to act in such situations.

 

By all means, take the risks you wish to take. But please, do not try to justify your risk-taking to other members.

Fair enough.

[[br...]]

 

I do understand that there are ethical problems that have cropped up between Baylissa and the general benzo community . Not underestimating all of that I do want to throw in a good word for Baylissa , a sort of not throwing the baby out with the bathwater .

 

Like most of us it took me a long time to realise that the prescribed benzo I was taking was actually the cause of my ill health . Again ,like most of I found help on the internet . Baylissa had posted an excellent little series of animated videos as well as supportive on line segments . I also found her books on amazon  and read them avidly through many pain filled wakeful nights. These tools helped me get through the first few intense months of withdrawal and for that I am deepy grateful .

 

 

[[Ju...]]

This has true meaning and I thank you for it, Jeff.

 

Please refer to my previous reply.

 

I was speaking to Jeff. If you wish to butt in though Colin, by all means. So are you a counselor or not? I mean you haven't really expanded on that. I went to college with a minor in psychology. I have shadowed a therapist. Am I counselor? No. I will give you advice as you felt the need to do so to Jeff. Get your facts straight. Moderate this site properly. Leave your ego at the log in.

[[...]]

Baylissa being more or less bullied out of this “community” is nothing less than a absolute tragedy.

[[Ju...]]

It truly is. We need her. I also need real answers to questions. I've never been this upset about this board before.

[[Co...]]

This has true meaning and I thank you for it, Jeff.

 

Please refer to my previous reply.

 

I was speaking to Jeff. If you wish to butt in though Colin, by all means. So are you a counselor or not? I mean you haven't really expanded on that. I went to college with a minor in psychology. I have shadowed a therapist. Am I counselor? No. I will give you advice as you felt the need to do so to Jeff. Get your facts straight. Moderate this site properly. Leave your ego at the log in.

 

What the hell is wrong with you? Since my reply there, you have subsequently replied to the thread where you originally asked this absurd question, and I must now distrust your intentions - you obviously have an agenda other than arriving at any truths. I'll quote my response to you here.

 

Colin out of interest - you are a therapist yes? Do you coach and or counsel patients in withdrawal and/or tapering?

 

I think as an administrator it is important for you to be impartial. As a therapist I think this is even more important. Especially with your personal views. Choosing to re-post a deleted message with a forward on how you personally feel about the content of the message - I’m wondering if you are a member of your governing body if this is inappropriate.

 

I did not find Baylissa’s response to Jaytay belittling at all.  I did not find it In appropriate. If someone is reporting an experience that was not actually factual or partly factual then a response is indeed warranted.

 

As a therapist are you a member of your governing body? As I’m wondering if it is indeed ethical to be putting your views on another therapist on a public forum, especially one such as this.

 

I find it interesting that posts about Baylissa were mostly all removed.  I did a search the day after with tthe word “Baylissa” & the only ones that came up were from 2012.  You choose to re-post deleted messages eyrh a forward by you on how you felt about them.  Some might say this was leading others as to how they “should” think. If you are going to re-post messages that members have chosen to personally delete with a forward by yourself on how you personally feel about it - there is a lot going on  with this & I would encourage you to discuss this with your therapist - as a therapist outsell I am sure you are in regular therapy as this is a requirement for practising therapists - at least in my country it is. I would also encourage you to discuss why you choose to re-post a members experience who had a not so positive experience with Baylissa but remove the threads and messages of people who did have positive experiences as you personally felt they were endorsements, 

 

From what I understand BB will be looking at sensorineural and/or deleting messages if the positive reports see don’t meet BB requirements.  If this is the case I would be saddened by this.  As this is the kind of authoritarian control I wound not expect on this forum.

 

I have an alias on this forum.  Does that make me disingenuous? I would say no.

 

I have been very clear in all my comments that I am not remotely qualified to be a counsellor. Only that I had received some limited training many years ago, so I have some understanding of the basic principles and have quite strong views (formed out out that training) about what is and what is not acceptable behaviour from a counsellor. Outside of training practice, I have never counselled anyone. Indeed, unless I am very mistaken, this is the first public mention I have made of this (I did make mention of this quite recently within the team area - it is just conceivable that I made similar comment publicly around the same time - if I did, I do not recall).

 

Many years ago (while running here) I advised a counsellor that I thought it a very bad idea for him/her to counsel while tapering/recovering. The counsellor took on board my concerns/suggestion and took time off. So, my views on this matter have been consistent.

 

The posts/threads were not deleted. They were removed for review by the team. Two threads (and then a third) were returned to the forum. No posts deleted by members were 'undeleted'. All this was made quite clear in my announcement.

 

Why would I be a member of the BACP (or similar) if I am not a counsellor and have never operated as counsellor?

 

I quoted one particular critical posts from a suspended thread because this was the opening post and the member Frederick chose to berate in public at this forum. Frederick knowingly did this with a former client - this was outrageous behavior.

 

The whole of your post is littered with errors which were completely avoidable from even a cursory reading of my announcement and my other recent posts from the past couple of days. It seems that you did read them, but were determined to find fault, resulting in your numerous errors. Just about everything you wrote there is completely incorrect.

[[br...]]

 

Colin . All of the issues surrounding ' Baylissa -gate ' are obviously causing dissension in our little community . I'm not disputing the facts that went into the decision making process to ban Baylissa  , but can we at least give her credit for the truly astonishing work she has done in a very neglected field . She had the ear of the much respected Dr Ashton for years , and has helped countless people survive the difficult recovery process . All of this should count for something in her favour . To keep the whole issue fair and to avoid the deep divisions in opinions I think that we need to see a more balanced view from you and the moderators .

 

 

[[Ju...]]

This has true meaning and I thank you for it, Jeff.

 

Please refer to my previous reply.

 

I was speaking to Jeff. If you wish to butt in though Colin, by all means. So are you a counselor or not? I mean you haven't really expanded on that. I went to college with a minor in psychology. I have shadowed a therapist. Am I counselor? No. I will give you advice as you felt the need to do so to Jeff. Get your facts straight. Moderate this site properly. Leave your ego at the log in.

 

What the hell is wrong with you? Since my reply there, you have subsequently replied to the thread where you originally asked this absurd question, and I must now distrust your intentions - you obviously have an agenda other than arriving at any truths. I'll quote my response to you here.

 

Colin out of interest - you are a therapist yes? Do you coach and or counsel patients in withdrawal and/or tapering?

 

I think as an administrator it is important for you to be impartial. As a therapist I think this is even more important. Especially with your personal views. Choosing to re-post a deleted message with a forward on how you personally feel about the content of the message - I’m wondering if you are a member of your governing body if this is inappropriate.

 

I did not find Baylissa’s response to Jaytay belittling at all.  I did not find it In appropriate. If someone is reporting an experience that was not actually factual or partly factual then a response is indeed warranted.

 

As a therapist are you a member of your governing body? As I’m wondering if it is indeed ethical to be putting your views on another therapist on a public forum, especially one such as this.

 

I find it interesting that posts about Baylissa were mostly all removed.  I did a search the day after with tthe word “Baylissa” & the only ones that came up were from 2012.  You choose to re-post deleted messages eyrh a forward by you on how you felt about them.  Some might say this was leading others as to how they “should” think. If you are going to re-post messages that members have chosen to personally delete with a forward by yourself on how you personally feel about it - there is a lot going on  with this & I would encourage you to discuss this with your therapist - as a therapist outsell I am sure you are in regular therapy as this is a requirement for practising therapists - at least in my country it is. I would also encourage you to discuss why you choose to re-post a members experience who had a not so positive experience with Baylissa but remove the threads and messages of people who did have positive experiences as you personally felt they were endorsements, 

 

From what I understand BB will be looking at sensorineural and/or deleting messages if the positive reports see don’t meet BB requirements.  If this is the case I would be saddened by this.  As this is the kind of authoritarian control I wound not expect on this forum.

 

I have an alias on this forum.  Does that make me disingenuous? I would say no.

 

I have been very clear in all my comments that I am not remotely qualified to be a counsellor. Only that I had received some limited training many years ago, so I have some understanding of the basic principles and have quite strong views (formed out out that training) about what is and what is not acceptable behaviour from a counsellor. Outside of training practice, I have never counselled anyone. Indeed, unless I am very mistaken, this is the first public mention I have made of this (I did make mention of this quite recently within the team area - it is just conceivable that I made similar comment publicly around the same time - if I did, I do not recall).

 

Many years ago (while running here) I advised a counsellor that I thought it a very bad idea for him/her to counsel while tapering/recovering. The counsellor took on board my concerns/suggestion and took time off. So, my views on this matter have been consistent.

 

The posts/threads were not deleted. They were removed for review by the team. Two threads (and then a third) were returned to the forum. No posts deleted by members were 'undeleted'. All this was made quite clear in my announcement.

 

Why would I be a member of the BACP (or similar) if I am not a counsellor and have never operated as counsellor?

 

I quoted one particular critical posts from a suspended thread because this was the opening post and the member Frederick chose to berate in public at this forum. Frederick knowingly did this with a former client - this was outrageous behavior.

 

The whole of your post is littered with errors which were completely avoidable from even a cursory reading of my announcement and my other recent posts from the past couple of days. It seems that you did read them, but were determined to find fault, resulting in your numerous errors. Just about everything you wrote there is completely incorrect.

 

So it's fine for you to berate someone? This would be because you aren't a professional correct? That makes it alright?

 

Listen, I had problems with this place long ago. I've seen how it operates. I've never said a word about it though. It made withdrawal more difficult with members telling me that I had candida. I lost 40 pounds and was very underweight for a very long time. Then I have Mast Cell Activation everyone says so now I am terrified of any medication. The same "success stories" floated around and were always few and far between.

 

I finally found Baylissa and she assured me that I will heal from this. I was beginning to believe it. That was a good feeling. Then because you allowed slander on this site, I do not have that feeling anymore. No, it should have never gotten this far. On this site a person can tell another to put their medication in water and take it differently than directed as well as hide the fact from their doctors. People can tell one another how to eat, live and tolerate symptoms. A person such as Baylissa gets treated unfairly though? I think you are correct about another agenda going on here. I think it's coming from over there though. I'm sorry, none of this makes sense to me. I am not alone either.

[[Ma...]]

People come on!

 

A professional gets money for the service. People in a self support forum don't.

A professional has to follow certain rules, given by laws and guidelines. People in a self support forum can do what they want.

A Professional has to act in a way everyone knows that he or she is a professional. People in a self support dont have too.

A professional can be sued, a self support forum not.

(Thats another reason why a professional shall show the real identity by the way and NOT use nic names or even more than one).

 

And my last advice is: Stop searching for people who will tell you that you will heal from this. Thats very much leading to disappointment or a new problem. No matter if it is Baylissa or any other person no one can tell you when you or if you will heal, or what you have to do to heal. It is your job to find out what you have to do.

 

[[Co...]]

So it's fine for you to berate someone? This would be because you aren't a professional correct? That makes it alright?

 

If you are being deliberately obtuse, ignoring readily available facts, and apparently willing to write any totally made up nonsense in furtherance of your agenda, then yes, absolutely you will be told this straight. But BB is a discussion board, not a psychotherapist's couch. And I don't go around the Net tracking down people to demand satisfaction. That would the person you are determined to defend, no matter her actions.

 

Listen, I had problems with this place long ago. I've seen how it operates. I've never said a word about it though. It made withdrawal more difficult with members telling me that I had candida. I lost 40 pounds and was very underweight for a very long time. Then I have Mast Cell Activation everyone says so now I am terrified of any medication. The same "success stories" floated around and were always few and far between.

 

If members ignore the rules, report their posts. You did do this, right? We do not have a large enough team to monitor every post ourselves. We reply upon members to report problems. It is the same with every other forum of any appreciable size.

 

I finally found Baylissa and she assured me that I will heal from this. I was beginning to believe it. That was a good feeling. Then because you allowed slander on this site, I do not have that feeling anymore. No, it should have never gotten this far. On this site a person can tell another to put their medication in water and take it differently than directed as well as hide the fact from their doctors. People can tell one another how to eat, live and tolerate symptoms. A person such as Baylissa gets treated unfairly though? I think you are correct about another agenda going on here. I think it's coming from over there though. I'm sorry, none of this makes sense to me. I am not alone either.

 

What we have is two people disagreeing about who said precisely what (in verbal communications, it would seem). I am not omnipotent. I was not there. So, I do not know the exact truth of those interactions any more than you do. But one of them is a counsellor/psychotherapist and decided to join forum for reasons other than those she stated in her introductory post. She then, knowingly, berated her former client and in public. What I would have expected Frederick to do would be to take these pretty minor comments on the chin. Failing this, contact her client privacy in a genuine effort to better understand why he feels this way about their interactions. It is not about Baylissa correcting what she feels is an inaccuracy, it is about her caring for her (former) client. Her focus is back to front. This is basic stuff. It really is. Or, failing the first two options, a third best (and I would suggest a very poor approach in the circumstances) would be for her to post some kind of limited, correction at her own website. The very last thing she should have done is what she actually did.

 

But this is old ground and you seem determined to not understand how inappropriate Frederick's actions were at this forum.

[[Be...]]

People come on!

 

A professional gets money for the service. People in a self support forum don't.

A professional has to follow certain rules, given by laws and guidelines. People in a self support forum can do what they want.

A Professional has to act in a way everyone knows that he or she is a professional. People in a self support dont have too.

A professional can be sued, a self support forum not.

(Thats another reason why a professional shall show the real identity by the way and NOT use nic names or even more than one).

 

And my last advice is: Stop searching for people who will tell you that you will heal from this. Thats very much leading to disappointment or a new problem. No matter if it is Baylissa or any other person no one can tell you when you or if you will heal, or what you have to do to heal. It is your job to find out what you have to do.

 

Oh DearGod, you just saved me from saying something I'd later regret and delete to JuustHere who falsely accused me of promoting the use of antihistamines and gabapentin in another thread, where I defended myself and said I did not believe I broke any rules, since I had done neither of these things, and Colin weighed in and said my post was fine, no rules broken, and we are allowed to mention meds meds prescribed by our provider, which is all I did in reply to Shayna. What we can't do is tell others they should be taking this or that med. Which I did not do.

 

This reply from you is so good, I think BB should save it and use it (with your permission of course). For some reason JuustHere and a few others keep wanting to beat this really quite dead horse. Colin, the admins and mods are likely exhausted from this, Pianogirl asked in the Baylissa thread if people would just move on and get back to doing what this board was meant for. So I guess JuustHere now is moving it over here and wanting to continue the argument. None of this is productive, does Pianogirl now have to ask the same thing here? Time to move on, this discussion has been run into the ground, Colin has explained his position ad nauseum. Can we please just stop it now?

[[Ju...]]

So it's fine for you to berate someone? This would be because you aren't a professional correct? That makes it alright?

 

If you are being deliberately obtuse, ignoring readily available facts, and apparently willing to write any totally made up nonsense in furtherance of your agenda, then yes, absolutely you will be told this straight. But BB is a discussion board, not a psychotherapist's couch. And I don't go around the Net tracking down people to demand satisfaction. That would the person you are determined to defend, no matter her actions.

 

Listen, I had problems with this place long ago. I've seen how it operates. I've never said a word about it though. It made withdrawal more difficult with members telling me that I had candida. I lost 40 pounds and was very underweight for a very long time. Then I have Mast Cell Activation everyone says so now I am terrified of any medication. The same "success stories" floated around and were always few and far between.

 

If members ignore the rules, report their posts. You did do this, right? We do not have a large enough team to monitor every post ourselves. We reply upon members to report problems. It is the same with every other forum of any appreciable size.

 

I finally found Baylissa and she assured me that I will heal from this. I was beginning to believe it. That was a good feeling. Then because you allowed slander on this site, I do not have that feeling anymore. No, it should have never gotten this far. On this site a person can tell another to put their medication in water and take it differently than directed as well as hide the fact from their doctors. People can tell one another how to eat, live and tolerate symptoms. A person such as Baylissa gets treated unfairly though? I think you are correct about another agenda going on here. I think it's coming from over there though. I'm sorry, none of this makes sense to me. I am not alone either.

 

What we have is two people disagreeing about who said precisely what (in verbal communications, it would seem). I am not omnipotent. I was not there. So, I do not know the exact truth of those interactions any more than you do. But one of them is a counsellor/psychotherapist and decided to join forum for reasons other than those she stated in her introductory post. She then, knowingly, berated her former client and in public. What I would have expected Frederick to do would be to take these pretty minor comments on the chin. Failing this, contact her client privacy in a genuine effort to better understand why he feels this way about their interactions. It is not about Baylissa correcting what she feels is an inaccuracy, it is about her caring for her (former) client. Her focus is back to front. This is basic stuff. It really is. Or, failing the first two options, a third best (and I would suggest a very poor approach in the circumstances) would be for her to post some kind of limited, correction at her own website. The very last thing she should have done is what she actually did.

 

But this is old ground and you seem determined to not understand how inappropriate Frederick's actions were at this forum.

 

Interesting that you completely ignored the fact that people tell others to take their medication differently than prescribed and not to inform their doctors of what they're doing. I don't need to report that. You have an entire section on it. Colin, I used to think you were someone to fear. Now that I've pulled the curtain back at Oz, it's a reality check.

 

I have a video from Baylissa up. Yes, I am finished because she isn't worried about you or anyone one else. I'm not either. Good day.

[[Go...]]

Well.

 

If any forum members are unsure of what the phrase ‘Make A Mountain Out Of A Molehill’ means... then this announcement is exactly that.

 

Baylissa Frederick is one of the most amazing counsellor come therapists I have ever come across in my entire life, never mind just in the ‘Benzo Community’.

 

She’s also human, and has every right to defend attempts at defaming her character and/or directly correct misinformation written in print about her... anywhere... and including within this internet forum.

 

That is all she did here... nothing more... and she did it well.

 

Baylissa also did the same with the ‘Daily Mail’ newspaper in a court of law too, and in May of 2014 won her case against them... so please don’t think she’s some kind of pushover come charlatan, because she’s far from it.

 

Her character was/is clearly being defamed (or ‘slated off’, as we say here in Scotland) on many threads within the Benzobuddies forum here... I’ve fully read them all tonight.

 

It’s quite frankly seriously unacceptable on many levels.

 

Considering how many people she directly (and indirectly) keeps alive in the ‘Benzo Community’ on a near ‘minute by minute’ basis - every single day - I find this completely unnecessary negative behaviour towards her quite disturbing.

 

In short, she is being bullied... and it’s by no means kind.

 

Benzobuddies contributed greatly to saving my life many years ago when I was in the thick of my journey through ‘BWS’ and I am very grateful for that.

 

I’m also very grateful for Baylissa too, who carried me through the entire process - daily - for years... and for no financial payment whatsoever.

 

Nil.

 

Now, years later, in comparison to other counsellors and therapists out there, Baylissa’s fees are considerably less, and also let’s remember just how many counsellors/therapists (of which there are tens of thousands in the U.K. alone) have - real - and direct experience of ‘Benzodiazepine Withdrawal Syndrome’ themselves, and really understand it?

 

The answer is, about a handful do.

 

In fact most counsellors and therapists (amongst almost the entire medical profession) don’t even believe that ‘BWS’ even exists, and definitely not at the levels of the severely painful intensity it can get to... that’s for sure.

 

Baylissa Frederick is a massive positive within the ‘Benzo Community’... and that’s all there is to it.

 

We all have our part to play.

 

Anyways, I digress...

 

It was actually Professor Heather Ashton herself who directly encouraged/told Baylissa that she had a right as a counsellor come therapist to earn a living too... and that Baylissa was adequately qualified to do so in the field of ‘Benzodiazepine Withdrawal Syndrome’.

 

There is no testimonial in the entire world that is better than that.

 

None.

 

Baylissa Frederick is the kindest most generous person I have ever met in my entire life... and I have directly met her.

 

It’s saddening for me to hear (and now see) that the Benzobuddies ‘Admin Team’ (lead by Colin here) doesn’t really support a person who is in actual fact a pillar of the ‘BWS’ community.

 

So if they can’t support dear Baylissa here... then...

 

I will.

[[...]]

I pretty much left this forum over a year ago. I never found this site to be particularly helpful. I came back to read this thread. Colin’s words just reinforce my decision to leave.

 

I am healing. Soon this will be behind me. And I owe my life to Baylissa. She has been there for me every step of the way. The way she is being maligned here is disgusting.

 

I had planned to share my success story here, but as of today, after reading all this rubbish, I want nothing to do with benzo buddies.

 

I wish everyone healing. Believe it or not, if you allow your body heal naturally it does happen even if you are, like me, incredibly, tortuously sick for a long time.

[[...]]

How can a professional therapist/councellar write in a self support forum using a nick-name. And giving advice there.

In my country this is not allowed for a good reason, I find it really weird. The best way to respond would be on her official website or at a place where she would act in a way everyone knew from the beginning that it was her. It took a while until I finally understood that she wrote here under the name Gratefulbliss and I thank you Colin for clarifying the situation.

 

She tried doing this and was told to not use her real name. I feel like going into a lengthy post explaining what type of person Baylissa is, and the amount of time she has donated pro Bono to help over 13,000 people fir the last 15 years. But I won’t. But, frankly, it’s not worth it.

 

This site is a joke.

[[Ju...]]

How can a professional therapist/councellar write in a self support forum using a nick-name. And giving advice there.

In my country this is not allowed for a good reason, I find it really weird. The best way to respond would be on her official website or at a place where she would act in a way everyone knew from the beginning that it was her. It took a while until I finally understood that she wrote here under the name Gratefulbliss and I thank you Colin for clarifying the situation.

 

She tried doing this and was told to not use her real name. I feel like going into a lengthy post explaining what type of person Baylissa is, and the amount of time she has donated pro Bono to help over 13,000 people fir the last 15 years. But I won’t. But, frankly, it’s not worth it.

 

This site is a joke.

 

Knew it. That's why I could never get a straight answer from any of them.

[[...]]

Or if you have an undiagnosed underlying condition and are being surrounded by an overwhelmingly anti-“polydrugging” group mentality as well as a core message to sit around and wait for time to heal it you find yourself in a ridiculously dangerous situation. But glad it worked for you and your situation. It certainly didn’t work for me nor for several others I was in that group with but that’s why our journeys are all so individualized and there’s no blanket one size fits all answer.

 

Then make your choice and move on bro. But know this..Baylissa has never given medical advise. She’s made that perfectly clear. Her “tribe” may be more “anti medication” since..ah, you know, it nearly killed a lot of them?

 

Here’s some unsolicited advise. Take ownership of your life and stop crying on message boards.

 

[[Ju...]]

Or if you have an undiagnosed underlying condition and are being surrounded by an overwhelmingly anti-“polydrugging” group mentality as well as a core message to sit around and wait for time to heal it you find yourself in a ridiculously dangerous situation. But glad it worked for you and your situation. It certainly didn’t work for me nor for several others I was in that group with but that’s why our journeys are all so individualized and there’s no blanket one size fits all answer.

 

Please listen to the YouTube link I provided. She explains how she feels on everything. I think you were in a very dark place and sometimes that is a confusing place. I am definitely glad you are out of it now. It is terrible. Here is a situation like yours on this board. Interesting how this person was told these are typical symptoms http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=246214.0 I've seen no complaints about the advice given here.

[[...]]

There have been a few threads of late discussing Baylissa Fredrick. The threads were removed for review - not to protect the sensitivities of any particular psychotherapist or the views of a subset of our members. The Admins and I have now completed our review of the threads (including the posts self-deleted by individual members).

 

I wish to point out that individual members are responsible for the content they post at BB. If you overstep the line, you potentially open up yourself to legal action. To be clear, I am not suggesting that I think any of the content here was potentially libelous. But as I have explained, it is for each of you determine what is fair comment.

 

Our actual concerns about the threads were twofold: 1) that the threads were becoming overly heated; and 2) that members should generally adhere to BenzoBuddies' posting guidelines. We have determined that although things were getting a bit heated in some instances, members were in the main posting within guidelines.

 

Expression of views and robust debate are part and parcel of posting to just about any discussion board. We have no desire to curtail this. If it is OK for one person to wax lyrical about a particular service, then surely it is OK for another to express dissatisfaction with the same service.

 

JayTay0 was generally dissatisfied with the service she received. Her comments appear balanced and could not be described as a diatribe. There was nothing in her posts which could be construed as being in poor taste or vindictive. She was simply dissatisfied, expressed her views from her perspective, and explained her reasons.

 

Baylissa Frederick joined the forum a few days ago. It seems clear that she did this in response to a 'heads-up' from a member about the threads here which referenced her services. Here is a copy of Frederick's introductory message:

 

Hi, I took clonazepam for almost eight years and had a difficult time. I joined the forum to read through posts and to understand better the current thinking.

 

Thank you

 

7.5 years clonazepam (Rivotril)

Ashton crossover to Valium

 

The above introduction, expressing Frederick's reasons for joining the forum were clearly disingenuous. Honesty and transparency are very important qualities for a counsellor and these were lacking. She then went on (in another post) to address specific comments from JayTay0. Although she did not name her, Frederick's use of quotations within the same thread did indeed identify JayTay as the author of the quoted material. This public reaction, directly addressing JayTay was a very problematic action to take by a practicing psychotherapist. And all the more so given that Frederick was knowingly addressing, and in public a former client. Frankly, the Team and I are appalled.

 

The thread created by JayTay0 was very productive and useful. All participants had been respectful of each other, engaged genuinely and expressed empathy. It was a model discussion. That is, until Baylissa Frederick added her comments.

 

I think it would be useful for me to quote the opening post from JayTay:

 

I've been a part of the "online benzo community" for nearly a decade at this point and now coming up on one year post microtaper there are some things that I feel like I have more clarity on and wish that I could pass on to people still very much enveloped by their struggles that are hopefully helpful.

 

After becoming dependent on Ativan following the onset of panic attacks my introduction to the online benzo community was Baylissa Fredricks' book and Bloom in Wellness book. Over the years I attended her webinars, Q&A's, Zoom meetings, online chats and others and while she had the best intentions there are some pieces of advice that she gave to me and others that just are not sitting right with me and I wanted to address.

 

The first of these is that isolation in withdrawal is not harmful. As my agoraphobia exploded and I was left unable to work, drive, see friends or even leave the house I really latched on to this and strived for the day that I would be benzo free and able to do all these things again. A year post taper I am able to enjoy these things which I really value but that isolation took a massive toll on my mental well being. I don't believe isolation is ever healthy for anyone in any situation and I honestly can't believe that someone who claims to be a therapist would advise anyone that it is. Connection is a core neccesity for survival for human beings. And it's my belief that insulated online communities just aren't enough to fulfil this need. I also think that while they can be supportive there is A LOT of fear mongering and ruminating which does not promote well being or advancement in recovery. It just keeps people stuck in a victim role sometimes for a very, very long time. Of course I was angry with my prescribers for not giving me informed consent or any sort of warning that these meds were addictive. I stayed angry for years and it didn't make my quality of life any better feeling helpless to do anything about it. It wasn't until I adopted a sense of radical acceptance that the past is the past, it happened, it's reality and no amount of ruminating is going to change that that I could begin to move forward even though it is something I still grapple with to this day.

 

The second is the whole notion of villifying "polydrugging". I get that we were all screwed over in one way or another by doctors and to take it a step further the pharmaceutical companies and the FDA. Having been unwittingly addicted to benzos I lost all faith in doctors and the system itself as I came to believe that they are just profiting off of suffering. This had me wanting to do all of this tapering and withdrawal process naturally with no adjunct meds. What that left me with was CONSTANT torturous looping obsessive thoughts. Baylissa used to preach that "mental symptoms are to be treated no differently than physical ones in terms of withdrawal" and I just cannot agree with this sentiment. In my case I not only had a lifelong panic/anxiety disorder in addition to substance abuse but I had undiagnosed OCD that I was just coping with naturally waiting for this "normal part of the benzo wd process" to go away. I did everything in my power to do that but I was in a BAD way and if I hadn't been so afraid of psych meds and being "polydrugged" my suffering could have been aleviated exponentionally if I hadn’t been indoctrinated with this anti psychiatry way of thinking. I see all over these forums that nothing you can take can ease withdrawal symptoms but for me as soon as I got properly diagnosed and medicated and TREATED for OCD the intensity and frequency of my intrusive thoughts became so much more manageable. This might not be the case for everyone but I would like to say to anyone suffering with these mental symptoms like looping, intrusive thoughts that it could be something that you need OCD specific treatment for like ERP exposure therapy. I did not know OCD could manifest in such a way as I only thought of it in the traditional form of someone counting or flicking ligh switches but it can also be "pure obsessive" or in the form of mental rituals. Rituals can take the form of such things as analyzing, worrying, ruminating and seeking reassurance. The online boards and "experts" like Baylissa and Jennifer Leigh became prime targets for me to seek reassurance on any number of issues which in the long run just fueled my obsessive OCD thought patterns. Their intentions are good I believe but they are just people who went through withdrawal and every person needs to be treated to their individual situations. We put so much stock into that pill that I believe we ignore things like our history, our genetics our environment, our social situation, etc. I had panic attacks and generalized anxiety dating back to my early childhood and my dad has them as well so being told that my anxiety would magically disappear after I got off Klonopin and "healed" never made sense to me and is not what happened in reality.

 

Which is also what I wanted to touch on in terms of this whole notion of "healing", that "time is the only healer", etc. I'm sorry but I just don't think this is true. Anyone in recovery from addiction of any kind is in need of physical, mental and spiritual healing. I used to get so mad when people would call me an "addict" and tell them I was tolerant and that I was different from anyone else addicted to substances like alcohol, meth, heroin, even given my history of being addicted to and abusing Adderall. I was in deep denial of my addiction and my mental illness as everything I was being told was to be attributed to benzos. At the end of the day it doesn't matter if I got addicted unwittingly. There are hundreds of thousands of people who unwittingly became addicted to opiates. What matters is how we recover. We can sit around and Google information on GABA receptors and glutamate and the HPA axis and whatever else all day everyday but is it helping our recovery? Is it moving us toward our values and our goals? Is it accomplishing anything positive in our lives? For me it wasn't, the influx of available information on the internet just added to my confusion and my fear. I don't understand what this magical "healing" date even means. I'm a year out and I am working and functioning and enjoying a lot of things I value in life again but I also still deal with intrusive thoughts and depression and anxiety every single day. My muscle pains and insomnia and ridiculously intense panic attacks from acute withdrawal (which still happened despite doing a long microtaper btw...in my experience and opinion it's unavoidable when our blood level drops to a certain point no matter what people say) are gone and have been for several months but I still deal with these mental symptoms that have been normalized online as part of the withdrawal process that will eventually heal. Well...for me they needed to be TREATED by medication and therapy, not seeking reassurance from Baylissa and the forums that these things would just heal in time.

 

These are just some things about the online community I felt I needed to get off my chest and I hope that someone still feeling lost, confused and stuck took them to heart.

 

And, advisedly, I also include a copy of Frederick's reply to JayTay:

 

Hello,

 

"The first of these is that isolation in withdrawal is not harmful".

 

This is Baylissa and I need to clarify statements made here that are misleading. I can categorically say that I have never ever told anyone that "isolation in withdrawal is not harmful". There are people who are isolated and have no choice. There are people who isolate themselves because they can't cope with the pressures of judgements from well-meaning family members, etc. Everyone's situation is different and having support and interaction goes a long way to enhancing the person's wellbeing. I have said that I was isolated during my withdrawal and felt it worked in my favor. This was not meant to be an endorsement of isolation as a good thing for people in withdrawal and those who have been supported by me over the years will attest to this.

 

 

"The second is the whole notion of villifying "polydrugging". I get that we were all screwed over in one way or another by doctors and to take it a step further the pharmaceutical companies and the FDA."

 

Never once have I objected to polydrugging. Not one in any webinar, Q and A, or private conversation have I ever told anyone to not take other drugs, to not take their adjunct medication, etc. The reason this is true is because it is not something I can say as a therapist. I also would never say it because I have worked with people who have need to take other drugs in order to taper off their medication and I have supported them every bit of the way. This is absolutely not something I do.

 

 

"Having been unwittingly addicted to benzos I lost all faith in doctors and the system itself as I came to believe that they are just profiting off of suffering. This had me wanting to do all of this tapering and withdrawal process naturally with no adjunct meds. What that left me with was CONSTANT torturous looping obsessive thoughts."

 

These are your own personal feelings and nothing to do with me. There are doctors who are very knowledgeable and know what they are doing. I always encourage my clients to see their doctors, get their diagnostics, etc.

 

"Baylissa used to preach that "mental symptoms are to be treated no differently than physical ones in terms of withdrawal" and I just cannot agree with this sentiment."

 

I do agree that I tell people to regard the mental symptoms no different to the physical, in terms of the cause. This does not include people who have pre-existing issues. My advice to people who have had anxiety and depression or who were prescribed the drugs for these issues, is that they will not know how much of what is happening is due to the pre-existing issue and how much is due to withdrawal. I let them know that the most important thing is to be "SAFE" and if they are not safe, they MUST immediately seek attention. If they are safe, they must treat the anxiety and depression with any coping tools that work for them - viz. mindfulness, grounding techniques, etc.  Please note that most of my clients have therapists who they work with and I also work with many of their therapist, explaining withdrawal. Very often we have 3-way sessions. What is written here is misleading.

 

I am glad you got treated and are okay. Many people need medication to get through life and if you are taking meds and are able to live your life fully, then well done and I am happy for you.

 

"The online boards and "experts" like Baylissa and Jennifer Leigh became prime targets for me to seek reassurance on any number of issues which in the long run just fueled my obsessive OCD thought patterns."

I need to clarify that I am not at all an expert and I am always learning. Everyone is biochemically different, with different histories, levels of emotional resilience, unresolved trauma, etc. I completely agree with you that every person needs to be treated individually, and this is why I refer people on if I think I can't help them. I think we're damned if we do, and damned if we don't. Because, ironically, the other people who do exactly what you are doing are the ones who I refer on, who get upset and then blame me for everything. Ah well...

 

I joined Benzo Buddies today to clarify a few things: I do not tell people to not take other meds. I do not tell people not to take supplements. I am very aware of all the research and all the "theories" about other causes of withdrawal or contributors to withdrawal issues, such as mold toxicity, Epstein Barr Virus (EBV), Lyme disease, mast cell activation syndrome (MCAS) and other histamine-related problems, leaky gut syndrome, chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS) or myalgic encephalomyelitis (ME), small intestinal bacterial overgrowth (SIBO), H pylori, candidiasis, mercury poisoning, other heavy metal poising, parasites infestation, vagus nerve inflammation, MTHFR mutation, myelin sheath damage, adrenaline exhaustion/fatigue, B12 and other deficiencies.

 

I have a great functional medicine doctor and I healed my thyroid naturally. I intermittent fast, do the ketogenic way of life for my dystonia and I take my fair share of supplements (a lot). I follow Dr Mark Hyman, Dr Perlmutter, Dr Axe, Dr Jason Fung... all of them. I believe food is medicine and that the gut is the second brain. During my most recent medical check, the doctor said I am 10 years younger in health than my age. All of this to say I am not "old school" and stuck in my views.

 

However, I am the person people seek out when they react to the different protocols, supplements, etc., and so I do not give medical advice because no one size fits all and, also, I am not qualified to do so. I will continue to encourage people to not give up and help in any way I can. What they choose to do while they await their healing is entirely up to them.

 

I wish everyone only the best. Healing, happiness and new beginnings... whatever that means for you.

 

Thank you and best regards

 

The Admins and I have decided to return the entire thread (from which the two quotes appear) to the forum with no redactions.

 

Although there is no legal requirement to do so, but given that Frederick practices independently, I would have expected that she was registered with one of the national professional organisations. I have checked the databases of both BACP and UKCP; Baylissa Frederick appears in neither. I have also checked her 'About Me' page at her website - she references no professional affiliation, supervision, or any oversight of her practice.

 

The Ethical Framework of the BACP might make for interesting reading for our members. The Framework is an excellent set of principles and guidance. They also provide a public register of members. They take violations of the Ethical Framework very seriously. I strongly recommend that members make use of the BACP Registry and similar high standard registries from other countries. (But be sure to not confuse BACP-type lists with with open directories where anyone can add their name for a small fee and with no effective ethical framework).

 

This spat has thrown up a few issues which requires the Team's consideration. We will review the appropriate rules over the next few days to see how they might be updated. But we do not wish to so hamstring members that they cannot discuss counselling services. A proper discussion of such services necessarily includes naming practitioners and providers. However, this is not a green light for members to post either diatribes or content akin to advertising copy. Again, I remind members that you are responsible for the words you use: keep your comments factual, or else framed as opinion based upon facts. No diatribes, and no overly promotional comment which reads like advertising. And, most importantly, the new rules expressly disallow member recommendations for counsellors who are not registered with a professional body, irrespective of their personal qualifications and/or experience.

 

In addition to restoring the Things I wish I had known and advice that I hadn't followed thread started by JayTay, we have also restored one of the 'Baylissa' threads (the one where members are mostly discussing themselves). The other 'Baylissa' thread (which read like advertising copy), the News re Baylissa on Chewing the Fat thread (which served only to direct members to other 'Baylissa' threads), and the Is consult with Baylissa helpful? thread (which also included many posts in the form of testimonials to Frederick's services) are not returned at this time.

 

We expect that members will have some questions and/or wish to comment, so this announcement is left open to replies.

 

Edit: The Is consult with Baylissa helpful? thread has been reinstated by the Admins.

 

Oh you “searched the data bases” Colin?  Hahaha. You’re a clown.

[Guest [Se...]]

Yea and that anti medication sentiment literally nearly killed me not to mention what detoxing off benzos at my home did to me and my family so ya know I have some hard feelings about seeing it happen to others as well? But do you. You should see the faces of the people in AA when I tell them I detoxed from Klonopin at home. Listening to the advice of random people online. I’m not “crying” I come on here and I see this site littered with people suffering from mental symptoms and not getting any treatment because they’re being told to sit around and wait for them to go away and it’s ridiculously dangerous. I took ownership for my life when I became an active, HARD worker in my recovery and not just sitting around being tortured unnecessarily all day long.

 

And no treatment is not being told everything under the sun is because of benzo wd.

 

 

 

 

I just want to say I can validate what JayTayO is saying.  I was there everyday. I watched his unbelievable push out of hell suffering. I’ve seen more than a half a dozen just like him. Can we go ahead and agree that sitting with intrusive thoughts waiting and waiting and waiting to want to live, to heal? Wondering if any twinge is a new horrific symptom that’s going to be the end of my push. I can’t push anymore.

I do not believe it’s humane or humanly possible to sit thru benzo symptoms isolated like we are from family and friends  waiting to heal and afraid to try anything that it will make it worse.  Invariably there is no hope at this stage either. They are clinging onto life in whatever way they can.  On top they mislabel normal human physiology.

Ppl are dying trying to do this.  Benzo wd needs special attention to other effects such as ocd explosions, isolation, anxiety agoraphobia and lost hope.  If my life of falling apart in a crisis that usually means I’m going the wrong direction. Maybe it’s not benzo wd. Maybe it’s trauma from isolation. Or 24/7 intrusive thoughts. Or depression. Or .....

[[Ju...]]

I’m deleting my account. I can’t do this drama. I gotta move on with my life. If listening to Baylissa works for people then that’s great, keep doing whatever works. It was not at all conducive to my recovery. Be well.

 

Before you go, I wish you would listen to Baylissa. I honestly don't think you were in a good pace and got things confused. Also the link on this board that I provided. The person in your situation is being told to wait it out and I don't understand why you don't have a problem with this board if you thought Baylissa said the same thing.

[[Go...]]

... It was not at all conducive to my recovery...

 

^^^^^ ... No disrespect to you here, but according to your BB signature you never gave yourself nearly enough time (if any) to “recover”.

 

Instead, shortly after you finished your benzodiazepine taper, you then allowed the medical community to ‘diagnose’ your ‘Benzodiazepine Withdrawal’ symptoms as another ‘mental illness’.

 

Now you’re poly-drugged as a result.

 

That’s not really a “recovery”... you’re just back in it, but now with an SSRI Antidepressant and an Anticonvulsant instead.

 

Obviously I don’t know this as a 100% truth, but I’ve been around the ‘Psychiatric Drug Community’ long enough to recognise ‘the same old scene’.

 

None of this is Baylissa’s doing either... it’s yours.

[[Be...]]

I’m deleting my account. I can’t do this drama. I gotta move on with my life. If listening to Baylissa works for people then that’s great, keep doing whatever works. It was not at all conducive to my recovery. Be well.

 

 

I know how you feel, I replied to HopefullHeart and fluffernutter who both mentioned leaving, and said I understood their feelings, because I felt the same way. I support you, and Colins decision. These complainers that aren't happy should take a hike, if they can't stop beating this dead horse. Just don't pay any of these malcontents any mind. The decision made by admins is final, done, not reversable. Leave them to their complaining, you don't need to justify anything to any of them. They are acting like schoolyard bullies. I asked the mod staff to step in and perhaps one can add a message similar to what Pianogirl wrote on the Baylissa thread. Whatever you decide to do, I've got your back. Please PM me before you leave, if you do, so I can say goodbye.

[[Be...]]

Yea and that anti medication sentiment literally nearly killed me not to mention what detoxing off benzos at my home did to me and my family so ya know I have some hard feelings about seeing it happen to others as well? But do you. You should see the faces of the people in AA when I tell them I detoxed from Klonopin at home. Listening to the advice of random people online. I’m not “crying” I come on here and I see this site littered with people suffering from mental symptoms and not getting any treatment because they’re being told to sit around and wait for them to go away and it’s ridiculously dangerous. I took ownership for my life when I became an active, HARD worker in my recovery and not just sitting around being tortured unnecessarily all day long.

 

 

 

And no treatment is not being told everything under the sun is because of benzo wd.

 

 

 

 

I just want to say I can validate what JayTayO is saying.  I was there everyday. I watched his unbelievable push out of hell suffering. I’ve seen more than a half a dozen just like him. Can we go ahead and agree that sitting with intrusive thoughts waiting and waiting and waiting to want to live, to heal? Wondering if any twinge is a new horrific symptom that’s going to be the end of my push. I can’t push anymore.

I do not believe it’s humane or humanly possible to sit thru benzo symptoms isolated like we are from family and friends  waiting to heal and afraid to try anything that it will make it worse.  Invariably there is no hope at this stage either. They are clinging onto life in whatever way they can.  On top they mislabel normal human physiology.

Ppl are dying trying to do this.  Benzo wd needs special attention to other effects such as ocd explosions, isolation, anxiety agoraphobia and lost hope.  If my life of falling apart in a crisis that usually means I’m going the wrong direction. Maybe it’s not benzo wd. Maybe it’s trauma from isolation. Or 24/7 intrusive thoughts. Or depression. Or .....

 

Thank you for sharing this, it's just the validation JayTay needs.