Did A Cold Turkey From Benzos Now Reinstated And Drugs Are Less Effectiveplzhelp

[[Ni...]]

Hey all, so I did a cold turkey from 17 mg of valium (1 Ativan equivalent of 10 mg of valium and 7 mg of valium) for 4 days and now the drugs are less effective as I reinstated.

 

How come this happens and what can I do to fix this? What is the mechanism behind it? Normally when I take ativan at 9 am I can stick it out easily till 5 pm when my next dosage is, but now I get withdrawal symptoms at around 1 pm. Also the Ativan would make me very sleepy and sedated, now it doesn't.

 

Your help is greatly appreciated!

[Guest [ba...]]

It will take a good week to build up the valium levels in your bloodstream again.  Really takes two weeks, but it's mostly there after one week.

[[Ni...]]

It will take a good week to build up the valium levels in your bloodstream again.  Really takes two weeks, but it's mostly there after one week.

What explains the Ativan being less effective?

[Guest [ak...]]

This happened to me, benzos never worked the same after my CT, I needed to get off, but I was always pushed to reinstate till they stopped working at all. And my gaba receptors are fried. Be careful with taking two benzos at the same time.

[[Tr...]]

Ashtons manual:

 

Reinstatement, updosing

 

A dilemma faced by some people in the process of benzodiazepine withdrawal, or after withdrawal, is what to do if they have intolerable symptoms which do not lessen after many weeks. If they are still taking benzodiazepines, should they increase the dose? If they have already withdrawn, should they reinstate benzodiazepines and start the withdrawal process again? This is a difficult situation which, like all benzodiazepine problems, depends to some degree on the circumstances and the individual, and there are no hard and fast rules.

 

Reinstatement after withdrawal? Many benzodiazepine users who find themselves in this position have withdrawn too quickly; some have undergone 'cold turkey'. They think that if they go back on benzodiazepines and start over again on a slower schedule they will be more successful. Unfortunately, things are not so simple. For reasons that are not clear, (but perhaps because the original experience of withdrawal has already sensitised the nervous system and heightened the level of anxiety) the original benzodiazepine dose often does not work the second time round. Some may find that only a higher dose partially alleviates their symptoms, and then they still have to go through a long withdrawal process again, which again may not be symptom-free.

 

Updosing during withdrawal? Some people hit a "sticky patch" during the course of benzodiazepine withdrawal. In many cases, staying on the same dose for a longer period (not more than a few weeks) before resuming the withdrawal schedule allows them to overcome this obstacle. However, increasing the dose until a longed-for plateau of 'stability' arrives is not a good strategy. The truth is that one never 'stabilises' on a given dose of benzodiazepine. The dose may be stable but withdrawal symptoms are not. It is better to grit one's teeth and continue the withdrawal. True recovery cannot really start until the drug is out of the system.

 

Pharmacologically, neither reinstating nor updosing is really rational. If withdrawal symptoms are still present, it means that the GABA/benzodiazepine receptors have not fully recovered (see above). Further benzodiazepines cause further down-regulation, strengthen the dependence, prolong withdrawal, delay recovery and may lead to protracted symptoms. In general, the longer the person remains on benzodiazepines the more difficult it is to withdraw. On the whole, anyone who remained benzodiazepine-free, or has remained on the same dose, for a number of weeks or months would be ill-advised to start again or to increase dosage. It would be better to devote the brain to solving individual symptoms and to finding sources of advice and support. Advice about how to deal with individual symptoms is given in the Manual (Chapter 3).

 

 

[Guest [ba...]]

Yes, reinstatements don't always work.  But it still takes a week for valium levels to mostly equilibrate following a change.  It may still not work as it did before, but give it some time to see.

 

Ativan would equilibrate much faster - just a day or two.

 

I tried to quit three times by c/t (I was doing Ativan at the time).  I reinstated the first two times within 48 and 72 hours (respectively) and the reinstatements seemed to work.  But I often read (and Ashton notes) that it doesn't always work.  I don't think anybody knows exactly why.

[[Ni...]]

Is there any way to resensitize the gaba receptors for the drugs to work? To reverse the tolerance?

 

I still feel withdrawal 5 hours after I took the Ativan, before my cold turkey I didn't feel this.

[[Tr...]]

Is there any way to resensitize the gaba receptors for the drugs to work? To reverse the tolerance?

 

I still feel withdrawal 5 hours after I took the Ativan, before my cold turkey I didn't feel this.

 

 

Our brains are too complicated, and there have been changes.

[[Ni...]]

Is there any way to resensitize the gaba receptors for the drugs to work? To reverse the tolerance?

 

I still feel withdrawal 5 hours after I took the Ativan, before my cold turkey I didn't feel this.

 

 

Our brains are too complicated, and there have been changes.

 

Surely there should be a way right?

[[Tr...]]

Is there any way to resensitize the gaba receptors for the drugs to work? To reverse the tolerance?

 

I still feel withdrawal 5 hours after I took the Ativan, before my cold turkey I didn't feel this.

 

 

Our brains are too complicated, and there have been changes.

 

Surely there should be a way right?

 

 

If there was a way, we wouldn't be sick.

[[Ni...]]

Is there any way to resensitize the gaba receptors for the drugs to work? To reverse the tolerance?

 

I still feel withdrawal 5 hours after I took the Ativan, before my cold turkey I didn't feel this.

 

 

Our brains are too complicated, and there have been changes.

 

Surely there should be a way right?

 

 

If there was a way, we wouldn't be sick.

N acetyl cysteine helps me avoid the Ativan's withdrawal symptoms that arise around 1 pm..

[[Ni...]]

I found this about fasoracetam:

 

Fasoracetam most likely sensitizes the receptor acutely since by being antagonized (by faso) it will take less of an agonist (like the GABA in your brain right now) to produce a shift in activity towards relief and anxiolysis (agonism). The WD is from your own GABA being weaker than both Phenibut and GHB, therefore when you run out, your GABA isn't cutting it anymore since you have built a tolerance at it's receptors. Since Fasoracetam provides antagonism of GABA-B, this can actually potentiate your own gaba (possibly). This is similar to the mechanism that Agmatine works by via being a weak NMDA antagonism. I do this with Opioids by taking known u-opioid antagonists with either Kratom, Tianetpine or Poppy seed tea. The result is almost always a slight increase in effects and elimination of any tolerance aquisition. Logically, this makes no sense since it's like (+1) + (-1) = +2, BUT you would not think that it would produce these effects looking at the math, in reality our body has feedback mechanisms that force you body to return to homeostasis and when you take an agonist+antagonist sometimes they block eachother, but sometimes they significantly potentiate the effects of the agonist, in the case of Faso and things like u-opioids, potentially even other things like CB1 ligands too (I used to put 95% curcumin on my MJ bowls and it did potentiate but also reduce cravings afterwards).

 

Source:

[[Ni...]]

The fasoracetam is only sensitizing the gaba b receptor though, I wonder if there is a substance that sensitizes the gaba a receptors.

[[Th...]]

There are no shortcuts, potions or pills that can get you past this symptom free.  The only way out is through the process of healing and recovery AFTER you are off of the drugs.  All Rx drugs, Benzos included, stop working given enough time.  Reinstating isn't working for you because you most likely reached tolerance?  Symptoms between doses are known as "Interdose WD symptoms"

 

Simply put, you're going to have to deal with some WD symptoms if you want to get off of the Ativan.  But it's all TEMPORARY.  It won't last forever. 

[[Ni...]]

There are no shortcuts, potions or pills that can get you past this symptom free.  The only way out is through the process of healing and recovery AFTER you are off of the drugs.  All Rx drugs, Benzos included, stop working given enough time.  Reinstating isn't working for you because you most likely reached tolerance?  Symptoms between doses are known as "Interdose WD symptoms"

 

Simply put, you're going to have to deal with some WD symptoms if you want to get off of the Ativan.  But it's all TEMPORARY.  It won't last forever.

I reached tolerance because of my cold turkey and I really need a way to reverse it...

[Guest [ba...]]

There are no shortcuts, potions or pills that can get you past this symptom free.  The only way out is through the process of healing and recovery AFTER you are off of the drugs.  All Rx drugs, Benzos included, stop working given enough time.  Reinstating isn't working for you because you most likely reached tolerance?  Symptoms between doses are known as "Interdose WD symptoms"

 

Simply put, you're going to have to deal with some WD symptoms if you want to get off of the Ativan.  But it's all TEMPORARY.  It won't last forever.

I reached tolerance because of my cold turkey and I really need a way to reverse it...

 

The (simplified) way that I tend to look at this is that the shock of the c/t and re-instatement wounded you a bit.  That system isn't responding like it did previously.  You can give your body time to find it's own equilibrium or you can try to force it to some other equilibrium by using (unproven) drugs.  I invite you to make decisions that lead to healing, not further wounding.

[[Ni...]]

There are no shortcuts, potions or pills that can get you past this symptom free.  The only way out is through the process of healing and recovery AFTER you are off of the drugs.  All Rx drugs, Benzos included, stop working given enough time.  Reinstating isn't working for you because you most likely reached tolerance?  Symptoms between doses are known as "Interdose WD symptoms"

 

Simply put, you're going to have to deal with some WD symptoms if you want to get off of the Ativan.  But it's all TEMPORARY.  It won't last forever.

I reached tolerance because of my cold turkey and I really need a way to reverse it...

 

The (simplified) way that I tend to look at this is that the shock of the c/t and re-instatement wounded you a bit.  That system isn't responding like it did previously.  You can give your body time to find it's own equilibrium or you can try to force it to some other equilibrium by using (unproven) drugs.  I invite you to make decisions that lead to healing, not further wounding.

How do I heal?

[Guest [ba...]]

Time.

[[Ni...]]

Time.

So with time the drugs will become more effective again?

[Guest [ba...]]

I don't know if the drugs will become as effective again.  Probably not.  Most people see a slow decline in the effectiveness over time.  You may have sped up that process a bit.

 

I know you want a quick fix.  We all do.  However, it's the quick fix mindset that got most of us on this forum.  Sometimes there simply isn't a drug or supplement that fixes things.  Sometimes it simply takes time for the body to heal. 

 

I found therapy useful during this time.  In retrospect, I wish I had done therapy instead of ever starting those stupid pills, but therapy was going to take time and I wanted a quick fix.

[[Th...]]

There are no shortcuts, potions or pills that can get you past this symptom free.  The only way out is through the process of healing and recovery AFTER you are off of the drugs.  All Rx drugs, Benzos included, stop working given enough time.  Reinstating isn't working for you because you most likely reached tolerance?  Symptoms between doses are known as "Interdose WD symptoms"

 

Simply put, you're going to have to deal with some WD symptoms if you want to get off of the Ativan.  But it's all TEMPORARY.  It won't last forever.

I reached tolerance because of my cold turkey and I really need a way to reverse it...

 

A CT doesn't make you reach tolerance.  Tolerance is when the drug stops working at the current dose.  CT is quitting without tapering.  Doing a CT is not recommended as symptoms MAY be more intense and your WD MAY last longer?  Although it is all a guessing game.

 

There is NOTHING you can do to reverse this.  TIME is the only healer and unfortunately you can't speed up time. 

 

Acute WD is a period of time (usually 30-90 days for most) where symptoms may be intense.  This often happens from doing a CT and/or tapering off of a Benzo.

 

There is no way to know how long your symptoms might last or how intense they will be, but they will fade in intensity and slowly end. 

 

There is light at the end of the tunnel.  Since you already did a CT you are on your way to recovering and healing.

 

Putting more Benzos or other Rx drugs back into your body COULD greatly slow any progress or even reverse it?

 

I would avoid any more Rx drugs.  Let your body heal.  Your body knows how to repair itself. 

 

You can get past this.  Just let TIME do it's thing.

[[Ni...]]

There are no shortcuts, potions or pills that can get you past this symptom free.  The only way out is through the process of healing and recovery AFTER you are off of the drugs.  All Rx drugs, Benzos included, stop working given enough time.  Reinstating isn't working for you because you most likely reached tolerance?  Symptoms between doses are known as "Interdose WD symptoms"

 

Simply put, you're going to have to deal with some WD symptoms if you want to get off of the Ativan.  But it's all TEMPORARY.  It won't last forever.

I reached tolerance because of my cold turkey and I really need a way to reverse it...

 

A CT doesn't make you reach tolerance.  Tolerance is when the drug stops working at the current dose.  CT is quitting without tapering.  Doing a CT is not recommended as symptoms MAY be more intense and your WD MAY last longer?  Although it is all a guessing game.

 

There is NOTHING you can do to reverse this.  TIME is the only healer and unfortunately you can't speed up time. 

 

Acute WD is a period of time (usually 30-90 days for most) where symptoms may be intense.  This often happens from doing a CT and/or tapering off of a Benzo.

 

There is no way to know how long your symptoms might last or how intense they will be, but they will fade in intensity and slowly end. 

 

There is light at the end of the tunnel.  Since you already did a CT you are on your way to recovering and healing.

 

Putting more Benzos or other Rx drugs back into your body COULD greatly slow any progress or even reverse it?

 

I would avoid any more Rx drugs.  Let your body heal.  Your body knows how to repair itself. 

 

You can get past this.  Just let TIME do it's thing.

According to the Ashton manual the CT causes the drugs to be less effective.. In other words you develop tolerance to them. I wonder why this is, wouldn't stopping them make your gaba receptors more sensitized to the benzos?

[[Th...]]

Not really...stopping a drug that already down regulated your GABA receptors wouldn't make them more sensitive to the drugs...in fact it would most likely be the opposite.  Think of it this way:  If a light bulb burns out, it's not more sensitive to electricity.  It doesn't work, so no matter how much electricity you push out to the light bulb, it won't light up.

 

GABA receptors are the same way.  After they are damaged, they don't respond to the same dose of a Benzo.  In fact, sometimes they don't even respond to much higher doses.  They are "burned out" like the light bulb.  The only difference is that GABA receptors, unlike a burned out light bulb, can heal and even regrow.  But again, time is the healer. 

 

I understand your logic in thinking that doing a CT and then being off Benzos for X amount of time would somehow make the Benzos start working again, but it's based on a faulty premise.

 

Once tolerance is reached, the drug stops working at that dose.  Then your only option is to increase the dose to get a similar effect from the drug.  That's why it's a dead end road.  You are always increasing the dose to get some relief. 

[[Ni...]]

Not really...stopping a drug that already down regulated your GABA receptors wouldn't make them more sensitive to the drugs...in fact it would most likely be the opposite.  Think of it this way:  If a light bulb burns out, it's not more sensitive to electricity.  It doesn't work, so no matter how much electricity you push out to the light bulb, it won't light up.

 

GABA receptors are the same way.  After they are damaged, they don't respond to the same dose of a Benzo.  In fact, sometimes they don't even respond to much higher doses.  They are "burned out" like the light bulb.  The only difference is that GABA receptors, unlike a burned out light bulb, can heal and even regrow.  But again, time is the healer. 

 

I understand your logic in thinking that doing a CT and then being off Benzos for X amount of time would somehow make the Benzos start working again, but it's based on a faulty premise.

 

Once tolerance is reached, the drug stops working at that dose.  Then your only option is to increase the dose to get a similar effect from the drug.  That's why it's a dead end road.  You are always increasing the dose to get some relief.

There's a probiotic that grew gaba receptors in mice it's called lactobacillus rhamnosus. What do you think of that?

[[Th...]]

Probiotics may or may not work for you, but would most likely only work in your GI Tract?  You have a lot of GABA receptors throughout your body with the most in your brain and GI tract.  Probiotics won't help your brain much and your down regulated GABA receptors in your brain are the reason for most of your symptoms.  GI Tract symptoms such as Benzo Belly, constipation, etc. result from down regulated GABA in your GI Tract.

 

I took Probiotics that contained the probiotic you mention (actually 25 different strains) and I didn't notice any improvement.  Again, there are no shortcuts, pills, potions, or probiotics that will speed up recovery.  Time is the only healer, unless you have some type of faith, then God can heal too.