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Titration, Patents, and Fantastical Claims


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Re: http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=231829.msg2975666#msg2975666

 

For many years there were attempts to promote a particular unproven/untested set of titration protocols. Further, those promoting these methods were engaged in rubbishing completely standard (and effective for most) pill-splitting tapers and characterizing them as 'cut & suffer'. They even peppered posts at BenzoBuddies with such language - this is when I first intervened in this matter (January, 2013). Even though Jana Hill (the person behind the protocols) closed down her forum some years ago, there continue to be a small number of very vocal individuals who seek to promote her untested claims as somehow proven or guaranteed to work. Indeed, there has been a recent uptick in activity promoting her protocols both within and without BB. When there is any attempt at push-back, the rather extreme reaction (including threats of lawsuits) are rather illustrative of the problem. If this fails, then perhaps one of Hill's supporters will instead offer to purchase BB. No.

 

Jana Hill applied for a patent in 2012. As I suggested a short time later here at BB, the claims made in her patent were extremely flawed, some were even dangerous. Indeed, all twenty claims were rejected. Only with the help of the patent examiner (who apparently redrafted three claims for her) was a patent (with three claims) eventually allowed.

 

Hill seems to misunderstand (or wishes others to misunderstand) that because a patent is awarded, this somehow means that her protocols are: 1) tested and verified; and 2) are defensible. The award of a patent does NOT connote these things. A recent quote from Hill at the Benzodiazepine Information Coalition website:

 

Crazy Canuk , in his opening statement, says that he learned this taper protocol from its developer through BenzoDetoxRecovery. He states that he hopes that it’s okay to make his videos ostensibly describing it. It isn’t; it wasn’t.

 

Using the protocol incorrectly tarnishes its good name and places users at risk. He presents it incorrectly.

 

The authentic BenzoMicroTaper protocol USPTO 9301963 has a 13 year record of success. It is verified by the US patent office as novel( it was not previously available), needed, and understandable by” those practiced in the art”.

 

If The Coalition’s rules allow it, I will post the way that you can find the authentic BenzoMicroTaper . False versions now seem ubiquitous. A summary is available for the patients’ doctors. You can ask for it using the “reply” button.

 

J.Hill

 

Benzodiazepine Tapering Strategies and Solutions - Benzodiazepine Information Coalition

https://www.benzoinfo.com/2017/10/09/benzodiazepine-tapering-strategies-and-solutions/

 

Hill's statements that her method, "is verified by the US patent office as novel( it was not previously available), needed, and understandable by 'those practiced in the art'", is extremely misleading and disingenuous.

 

It is probably best for me to simply link to the patent and some information about patents:

 

https://patents.google.com/patent/US9301963B2/en

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Person_having_ordinary_skill_in_the_art

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novelty_(patent)

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inventive_step_and_non-obviousness

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prior_art

 

https://web.archive.org/web/20020608171456/http://www.geocities.com/benzobusters/winslow.htm

 

And for anyone who is particularly interested, and would like to compare, here is the original patent application (with the rejected 20 claims):

 

http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PG01&p=1&u=/netahtml/PTO/srchnum.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=20120322794.PGNR.&OS=DN/20120322794&RS=DN/20120322794

 

Further reading, including threats from Hill to doxx a BB member:

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=159823.0

 

There is a lot I could get into, but my time is limited - I'll leave it for readers to interpret (and discuss if they wish). But if any of you would prefer to read something a little more bite-sized, please check out the attached document*, which was supplied by Hill to the US Patent office in support of her appeal after the patent was initially rejected.** It is replete with nonsense, false claims, and utilization of quite extraordinary language.

 

* Available via the link at the foot of this post (with a small green paperclip image next to it).

 

** Please note: Jana Hill's personal details appear in the attached document. However, Hill long ago chose to make her name and location public knowledge (and again very recently through the media). And the attached document is a public record.

J.Hill-Amendment-Req.-Reconsideration-After-Non-Final-Reject-2015-03-11.pdf

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Ah. For those of you wondering where is the 'attached document' I referenced above, it is available as a link at the foot of that post (with a small green paperclip image next to it).
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Earlier this evening, I received a PM from a member who was 'concerned' that I was 'doxxing' (making public) Jana Hill's identity. Please note: Hill long ago chose to make her name and location publicly available (and reaffirmed these again very recently through the media); and the attached document is a public record.

 

https://www.westword.com/news/inside-cnn-benzos-report-with-lisa-ling-11498488

 

https://portal.uspto.gov/pair/PublicPair

 

'Choose type of number': (select) 'Document Identifier'

 

Enter Number: US 20120322794 A1

 

Click 'search'

 

Select 'Image File Wrapper' tab.

 

Bingo.

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Well. What do ya know. I just happened upon something from the BB archives.

 

Re: claim 3. per Hill's patent:

 

3. The method of claim 2, wherein the pre-taper plan includes removing any foods, drugs, and other environmental exposure affecting CYP450 enzyme activity that metabolizes the benzodiazepine.

 

https://patents.google.com/patent/US9301963B2/en

 

To protect the claim, it should not have been publicly disclosed prior to applying for the patent. From our archives:

 

It's true that there's no quick cure, but you're right. Every little thing can add up to giving us an edge.

 

Although a real change in diet is always best done gradually, some foods (and drugs too) are best dropped right away. Cruciferous vegetables and charbroiled meats are some of these. They induce the CYP 3A4 enzyme. This causes a quick loss of benzo levels and therefore increased W/D symptoms.

 

Our genetic variations of these enzymes make our responses vary. I found that these enzymes are strongly induced in my body. It was a big surprise. I had hit a benzo wall , and clearing these from my diet helped right away.

 

Antibiotics can do the same thing. Bactrim was my problem. I was on it for three weeks. You can imagine how bad the reaction was.

 

So moderation is usually the best way, but when a food or drug is working against us, moderation doesn't work.

Jana

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=5660.msg49999#msg49999

 

The above post is from 2007. The patent was filed in 2011.

 

I do not mean to elevate the claim, because it is nonsense. But apart from being utter drivel and dangerous to suggest that patients should give up other medicines purely to 'aid' benzodiazepine withdrawal, the notion already existed in the wild before Hill applied for the patent, and by her very own hand, no less. Thus, on the face of it, the claim is indefensible.

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I’ve known for years where Jana Hill lives.

 

And she does know many things about benzos. However, she is not the “genius “ that she thinks she is or describes herself as.

 

That is my opinion.

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I’ve known for years where Jana Hill lives.

 

And she does know many things about benzos. However, she is not the “genius “ that she thinks she is or describes herself as.

 

That is my opinion.

 

As a matter of interest, did you read the attached document in the opening post? I will probably get into its contents at at some stage. I found the claims bizarre, to say the least.

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I heard she reinstated.

 

Not according to Hill. And I have no reason to disbelieve her:

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=159823.msg2585690#msg2585690

 

Though, I never understood why her nose was so bent out of shape by the claim. Frankly, I had far greater concerns arising out of the content of that thread than whether or not Hill had reinstated - why would that be important? Post a correction, and move on. End of. Surely, reinstatement should be a personal decision (unless we treat benzodiazepine withdrawal as an article of faith - which I do not). Sometimes people need to reinstate, and for all kinds of good reasons. I have a real problem with people thinking that reinstatement implies some kind of failure. One of our BB Admins reinstated only a few months ago because of protracted problems with tinnitus. Tinnitus was impacting his life more than his prior use of benzodiazepines ever did. So, he made an informed, logical decision to reinstate. By reacting in a manner which suggests that the mere suggestion of reinstatement is some kind of slur, this negatively impacts all those who are just trying to be the best version of themselves they can. This is why I take such a tough stance against those who seek to spread general anti-psych medicine and anti-psychiatry propaganda - this kind of proselytizing has very real and negative effects upon those who rely upon such medicines and care. By all means debate these topics, because every profession and discipline can be improved, but do not throw out the baby with bath water. Do not tell other people what they must do in their personal health care.

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Yes,

 

When I was dealing with severe akathisia I asked people (here and elsewhere) what medications might help. Everyone told me the same thing, time. But there are actual medications that can be used. I haven no idea if they work, or if they would have worked for me, but I would have liked to have been able to decide before I reinstated and now have to do this all over again. Dogmatic responses are not helpful, and they mirror the responses many of us received from some of our doctors.

 

My current doctor actually told me that I should try one of these drugs for another issue, anhedonia. She then mentioned it could help with akathisia if mine returns. I thought that was depressingly funny given the timing. Also, she mentioned the main side-effect I'd have to look out for was "nymphomnia."

 

This would all be funny if it weren't so stupid, and it would be stupid if it weren't so horrible.

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I’ve known for years where Jana Hill lives.

 

And she does know many things about benzos. However, she is not the “genius “ that she thinks she is or describes herself as.

 

That is my opinion.

 

As a matter of interest, did you read the attached document in the opening post? I will probably get into its contents at at some stage. I found the claims bizarre, to say the least.

 

Frankly Colin, there were so many links posted that I read, I can’t be sure sure which one you’re referring to.

 

If you mean the one with the paper clip attached, I couldn’t get it to download.

 

I’ve had some personal experience with Jana on the phone, and I found her to be very self centered and talk incessantly about herself and all of her numerous tapers along with other people involved with moderating forums. One particular night she called me, and I was unable to get in one word myself and i finally had to stop the “conversation” as it was past 2 am in the early morning.

 

I did join her forum just as I was learning about benzos, but I soon found out that “her way” was not necessarily “ my way” of tapering, nor did I think she was the expert she purported to be. It seemed to work for some, but certainly not for others. In fact, often times others there would talk on the phone to each other and discuss how dogmatic she was-essentially her way or the highway. 

 

I never have cared much for cruciferous vegetables, but I’m not obsessed with that. And I’ve never hesitated to take an antibiotic if it was necessary. If fact, I took  Bactrim myself for a bladder infection, and had no problems with it. As far as charbroiled meat, I’m not much of a meat eater, but I’ve certainly had it , also with no problems.

 

I really did get fed up with Jana for these reasons. The final straw for me was when I was unable to do her daily taper, and she told me I had a genetic defect because of that. And lastly, she called me a troll and banned me from her forum for no reason whatsoever other than what I would call paranoia. Other members did intervene to try and persuade her otherwise, but she refused to listen. It was not long after that her  forum “fell.”

 

I saw that some people were successful getting off benzos while on her forum, but I certainly do not know if they followed her protocol to the letter or just did what they found worked for them and placated her. She did require placating it seemed to me.

 

She certainly is not a doctor; benzo wise or not, and what in the world is a medical technical writer for heavens sake? I do not know.

 

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The practice of granting secret, esoteric wisdom that is accessible only to the elect through loyalty to a charismatic but flawed figure who dispenses their occult knowledge through personal revelatory insight while shunning and then casting out members of the group who do not practice exact adherence to a set of seemingly arbitrary dictates while still accruing a devoted coterie of followers, may or may not be applicable to this person, but it sure seems like the attributes one would ascribe to a cult.

 

We need a method (or probably many methods) of healing that is public and reproducible. That is one of the goals of working together. Perhaps one day a Benzo-savior will appear before us, ready to bath our minds in the waters of true healing, and we will all be:

 

"remade in the way that trees are are new,

made new again, when their leaves are new,

  pure and ready to ascend to the stars."

 

But until then, I feel like there is a lot of real work to do.

 

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I have only a couple of minutes - I will reply more fully later.

 

@Intend to be off Your browser should have some kind of button, probably top-right somewhere, where it will list your downloads. Click that and select the applicable downloaded document. If you still have problems, let me know and I'll get it to you some other way.

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Yes,

 

When I was dealing with severe akathisia I asked people (here and elsewhere) what medications might help. Everyone told me the same thing, time. But there are actual medications that can be used. I haven no idea if they work, or if they would have worked for me, but I would have liked to have been able to decide before I reinstated and now have to do this all over again. Dogmatic responses are not helpful, and they mirror the responses many of us received from some of our doctors.

 

My current doctor actually told me that I should try one of these drugs for another issue, anhedonia. She then mentioned it could help with akathisia if mine returns. I thought that was depressingly funny given the timing. Also, she mentioned the main side-effect I'd have to look out for was "nymphomnia."

 

This would all be funny if it weren't so stupid, and it would be stupid if it weren't so horrible.

 

Although it is rather understandable why some people suffering from side or withdrawal effects might wish to promote a very negative view of benzodiazepines (they should be banned, etc.), or even extend this to medicines more broadly, it doesn't really make sense. Medicine, by its very nature is inexact because there are differences in each of our personal physiologies. Medicines are necessarily a compromise, and since they do not naturally exist in bodies, it should be expected that there are side effects. Indeed, even naturally occurring chemicals produced by own bodies can fall out of kilter and poison us. So, it is always a question of balance; potential risks vs potential benefits. It is the nature of life for their to be unknowns, inexactitudes and risks.

 

For these reasons, we long ago introduced a policy document regarding these matters:

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=25837.0

 

And before we had a specific policy document, there was always a rule against imparting anti-doctor/medicine advice on the forum. When members fall into this trap, it is rather understandable, and somewhat forgivable. But when those who have apparently recovered and go on operate a 'support forum' do this, it is inexcusable and unforgivable.

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I’ve known for years where Jana Hill lives.

 

And she does know many things about benzos. However, she is not the “genius “ that she thinks she is or describes herself as.

 

That is my opinion.

 

As a matter of interest, did you read the attached document in the opening post? I will probably get into its contents at at some stage. I found the claims bizarre, to say the least.

 

Frankly Colin, there were so many links posted that I read, I can’t be sure sure which one you’re referring to.

 

If you mean the one with the paper clip attached, I couldn’t get it to download.

 

Yeah, that was the one. As per my previous comment, let me know if you continue to experience this problem and I'll get it to you another way.

 

I’ve had some personal experience with Jana on the phone, and I found her to be very self centered and talk incessantly about herself and all of her numerous tapers along with other people involved with moderating forums. One particular night she called me, and I was unable to get in one word myself and i finally had to stop the “conversation” as it was past 2 am in the early morning.

 

I've come across other comments along these lines before. It is one thing to thoughtfully and carefully use a personal experience to example/make a point; it is quite another to make this the norm. This is from some knowledge I have about the practice of counselling. But, of course, Jana is not a counsellor; nor was her use of personal anecdote a considered and unusual occurrence.

 

I did join her forum just as I was learning about benzos, but I soon found out that “her way” was not necessarily “ my way” of tapering, nor did I think she was the expert she purported to be. It seemed to work for some, but certainly not for others. In fact, often times others there would talk on the phone to each other and discuss how dogmatic she was-essentially her way or the highway.

 

Your body; your choice; your taper. It is not a difficult concept, is it.

 

You are not the only member of BB who was banned from her forum under rather odd circumstances. It is rare when we actually ban accounts from BB - it takes a really determined effort by the member, and if it should occur, it will come as no shock. We take the view that many members will not be acting themselves (for obvious reasons). So, we provide second and third chances (and more). And we will usually try other account restrictions before reaching for the ban button. One thing which never results in a ban from BB is simple disagreement with how BB operates, its rules, etc. Of course we expect members to abide by the rules, but they do not have to like them.

 

I never have cared much for cruciferous vegetables, but I’m not obsessed with that. And I’ve never hesitated to take an antibiotic if it was necessary. If fact, I took  Bactrim myself for a bladder infection, and had no problems with it. As far as charbroiled meat, I’m not much of a meat eater, but I’ve certainly had it , also with no problems.

 

I've not seen any figures about the effects of cruciferous vegetables and charred meats upon metabolisation of benzodiazepines. But appears to be a tiny effect compared to the ingestion of grapefruit juice (which affects many different medicines). I think maintaining a good and varied diet is probably more critical.

 

As for vital medicines - they never should be rejected simply because of their potential effects upon the metabolisation of benzodiazepines. Suggestions to the contrary are obnoxious to me. By all means discuss with your doctors suitable alternatives if you are concerned (the effects are real, after all), but not dying because of an infection is obviously of exponentially greater importance. And, there is basic lack of logic at play here. Hill suggests in her patent that patients should quit a whole wrath of medicines with potential effects upon the metabolisation of benzodiazepines. Even if we put aside the potential (and real) risks of stopping these meds, chronically administered medicines are not likely to cause great fluctuations in blood levels of benzodiazpines. One-off or short-term use might affect blood levels one way or the other (but this does not mean they should not be taken), but chronically administered medications are far less likely to have an impactful effect. We need to keep things in perspective. Blood levels vary between doses anyway. It is just the way it is. And not taking vital and/or life-saving medicines, and avoiding the ingestion of certain foods, will not prevent this.

 

I really did get fed up with Jana for these reasons. The final straw for me was when I was unable to do her daily taper, and she told me I had a genetic defect because of that. And lastly, she called me a troll and banned me from her forum for no reason whatsoever other than what I would call paranoia. Other members did intervene to try and persuade her otherwise, but she refused to listen. It was not long after that her  forum “fell.”

 

Again, you are not the first person to accuse Hill of 'diagnosing' her 'patients'. Nor are you the first person to report that her protocols did not work (and subsequently banned from her forum).

 

I saw that some people were successful getting off benzos while on her forum, but I certainly do not know if they followed her protocol to the letter or just did what they found worked for them and placated her. She did require placating it seemed to me.

 

Of course, some will manage to get off without following any particular set of protocols. Although hellish (and I would not recommend as a standard aim), I withdraw from 4.5mg Rivitril (clonazepam) over six months. This was before I explored online anything to do with benzodaizepines. There is no way to reliably measure the success rates of Hill's members, not least because she was in the habit of banning those for whom the protocols did not work.

 

She certainly is not a doctor; benzo wise or not, and what in the world is a medical technical writer for heavens sake? I do not know.

 

Oh, such people do exist. I just see no evidence for Hill being effective at it. Quite the contrary (read the patent documentation, including the attachment).

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The practice of granting secret, esoteric wisdom that is accessible only to the elect through loyalty to a charismatic but flawed figure who dispenses their occult knowledge through personal revelatory insight while shunning and then casting out members of the group who do not practice exact adherence to a set of seemingly arbitrary dictates while still accruing a devoted coterie of followers, may or may not be applicable to this person, but it sure seems like the attributes one would ascribe to a cult.

 

We need a method (or probably many methods) of healing that is public and reproducible. That is one of the goals of working together. Perhaps one day a Benzo-savior will appear before us, ready to bath our minds in the waters of true healing, and we will all be:

 

"remade in the way that trees are are new,

made new again, when their leaves are new,

  pure and ready to ascend to the stars."

 

But until then, I feel like there is a lot of real work to do.

 

This.

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The practice of granting secret, esoteric wisdom that is accessible only to the elect through loyalty to a charismatic but flawed figure who dispenses their occult knowledge through personal revelatory insight while shunning ...

 

NAILED IT!

 

Thank you Colin, I got here this AM and saw "The touch of a Master's Hand" - like the much needed "Resources" section.

 

I'm new here, but it's not my first 'Detox'...  I couldn't have kicked "Benzo in the Liquid Form" (eToH) had there NOT been a well founded, universally applicable support structure - well in place when this bull wandered into the China Shoppe'.

 

They began in 1935. Even then a huge challenge was avoiding politics, religious "ownage" or Gossip Columns ... Got no clue how, with toxic anti-social @twitter & (cough) etc - I've got faith if anyone can pull it off in 21st Century - it's you folks.

 

Being seen as 'Anti-Vaxxers', or jousting under any banner might repel someone NEEDING help.

 

No words how GRATEFUL I was to find "Familiar Principles" such as Anonymity, firm but gentle boundaries, suggestions not "rules" (and we are NOT Dr's) etc. here @ BB.

 

Both "Well Founded Universal Groups" (there's one "other drugs" also) are woefully lacking, specifically to Benzo's. They're in GENUINE NEED of what you're working on.

 

THANK YOU

 

LC

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I have only a couple of minutes - I will reply more fully later.

 

@Intend to be off Your browser should have some kind of button, probably top-right somewhere, where it will list your downloads. Click that and select the applicable downloaded document. If you still have problems, let me know and I'll get it to you some other way.

 

Colin,

 

I have no idea where that button to click is. I’m on an iPad here, and I’ve downloaded things I never even realized.

 

This iPad is a newer one, and evidently I’ve downloaded w/o realizing. Yesterday, I got a call from a company called “Take The Lead” who said I’d downloaded “something” from them.

 

I can certainly try again to download the document we are referring to. Strange how all the other links worked perfect except that one. I’ll give it another shot as this iPad is touchy. And I mean temperamental.

 

 

 

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The practice of granting secret, esoteric wisdom that is accessible only to the elect through loyalty to a charismatic but flawed figure who dispenses their occult knowledge through personal revelatory insight while shunning ...

 

NAILED IT!

 

Thank you Colin, I got here this AM and saw "The touch of a Master's Hand" - like the much needed "Resources" section.

 

No, no. It is, frankly, a team effort: official team members, members, and some members privately chipping in with suggestions from time to time. I just like to make it appear that it is all down to me by posting the announcements! 8)

 

I'm new here, but it's not my first 'Detox'...  I couldn't have kicked "Benzo in the Liquid Form" (eToH) had there NOT been a well founded, universally applicable support structure - well in place when this bull wandered into the China Shoppe'.

 

Well, thank you for the acknowledgement of BB being a supportive space. We try.

 

They began in 1935. Even then a huge challenge was avoiding politics, religious "ownage" or Gossip Columns ... Got no clue how, with toxic anti-social @twitter & (cough) etc - I've got faith if anyone can pull it off in 21st Century - it's you folks.

 

Does 1935 refer to AA?

 

I am no fan of Twitter either. I think the idea is great; the implantation - not so much. To be frank, I think it is a cesspool.

 

Being seen as 'Anti-Vaxxers', or jousting under any banner might repel someone NEEDING help.

 

I know a few members do not appreciate that we disallow that kind of content, but - and I am sorry if this offends them - anti-vaxxers are engaging in spreading conspiracy theory, nothing more. Although not wishing BB to be associated with conspiracy theory is good reason in of itself for us to disallow such content, it is actually more fundamental than this - I plain do not wish to provide a platform which encourages and/or promotes such thinking.

 

No words how GRATEFUL I was to find "Familiar Principles" such as Anonymity, firm but gentle boundaries, suggestions not "rules" (and we are NOT Dr's) etc. here @ BB.

 

Well, there are 'rules'. But I try, as far as possible, to keep them as unobtrusive as possible. In the main, the rules govern behaviour rather content (conspiracy theories being a notable exception). Having said that, I have not actually specified disallowing conspiracy theories in the rules - maybe I should. I try my best for BB to not be in the business of disseminating dogma of any kind. BB is not even a 'anti-benzo website'. Our Mission Statement:

 

Mission Statement

 

BenzoBuddies: an inclusive, nonjudgmental mutual-support environment for those who wish to withdraw from benzodiazepines.

 

Members of the BenzoBuddies community are encouraged to exchange ideas, information and support during the process of withdrawal and recovery.

 

Although outside of the immediate scope of BenzoBuddies, members are free to discuss their wider medical problems and needs as they relate to benzodiazepine use and withdrawal.

 

Taking or quitting any medicine—including benzodiazepines—should be a personal decision made in consultation with a suitably qualified medical practitioner.

 

Through a peer-support model, we strive to help members achieve their goals.

 

You will note, we do not specify what member goals should be. ;)

 

Both "Well Founded Universal Groups" (there's one "other drugs" also) are woefully lacking, specifically to Benzo's. They're in GENUINE NEED of what you're working on.

 

THANK YOU

 

LC

 

Ah. You have an esoteric writing style. I've scratched my head a few times, and made use of Google too when reading your above post. But have stumped with the above. You will need to elucidate. :)

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Ah. Instead of linking to a Wayback Machine archive version of the Winslow titration page from the long defunct BenzoBusters website, I mistakenly linked to the (long since gone) original webpage. I've updated the link in my opening post, and for convenience, here it is again:

 

https://web.archive.org/web/20020608171456/http://www.geocities.com/benzobusters/winslow.htm

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Downloads are generally handled quite differently. They generally do not pop up in a new window. I'll email it to you.

 

I can give you my email if that would work. Or you could pm me with the information. I’ve tried to download several times with no success. Just strange is the best way to put that.

 

 

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Downloads are generally handled quite differently. They generally do not pop up in a new window. I'll email it to you.

 

I can give you my email if that would work. Or you could pm me with the information. I’ve tried to download several times with no success. Just strange is the best way to put that.

 

Oh. I sent it earlier to the address you have associated with your BB account.

 

I'll catch you tomorrow.

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Downloads are generally handled quite differently. They generally do not pop up in a new window. I'll email it to you.

 

I can give you my email if that would work. Or you could pm me with the information. I’ve tried to download several times with no success. Just strange is the best way to put that.

 

 

 

Oh. I sent it earlier to the address you have associated with your BB account.

 

I'll catch you tomorrow.

 

Not sure what address that is, but I never got your message Colin. Is it in an archived area? I do see that members here can or could leave email addresses, but not anymore. Please do check tomorrow.

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Eaux, Faux pax...

 

Your response (is that British Standard ENGLISH?) rates more better than cog-fog allows at this hour  :o

 

Does 1935 refer to AA?

 

:-X  Astute inference  ;)  For "on topic" sake, I went with only the history relevant to BB challenges.

 

Ah. You have an esoteric writing style. I've scratched my head a few times, and made use of Google too when reading your above post. ---<etc>---

 

It's been a minute since I cracked Strunk & White; kind of you to say. I've skipped the IMPORTANT "meat" (e.g. why rules are a GOOD Thing) and such, will give it shot when my brain is back.

 

Please forgive alusions and vagaries. We're on an open channel, it's sometimes hard to convey a salient point without "stirring muck" needlessly

 

Kindest Vibes

LC

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