I'm so confused and a wreck

[[si...]]

hi brite - i hope things are going well for you and you are able to understand colin's tables.

[[br...]]

Thanks Silver. Actually I'm not doing so well Very anxious. I'm experiencing multiple health problems prior being placed on the klonopin which makes it even more difficult to taper. I'm trying to hang in there. I think I understand Colin's charts but I was curious why the increments for tapering was changed to 2 ml instead of 1 as originally?  How are you doing, Silver? 

[[si...]]

sometimes the tables need to be changed - it is very technical and errors are made - it is all way over my head so i don't know the answer - but i know it is not unusual for corrections to be made.

 

anxiety is part of withdrawals for some people - it is not unusual.

 

i am sleeping but often have a fear that i will not - so it is something i need to investigate further.  although things have improved greatly for me - sleep is still a challenge - or perhaps it is just the fear of not sleeping - i am not sure which.

[[Co...]]

Thanks Silver. Actually I'm not doing so well Very anxious. I'm experiencing multiple health problems prior being placed on the klonopin which makes it even more difficult to taper. I'm trying to hang in there. I think I understand Colin's charts but I was curious why the increments for tapering was changed to 2 ml instead of 1 as originally?  How are you doing, Silver? 

 

Hi,

 

The increments are not steady; they were never just 1ml, and are not now just 2ml. The amount cut changes according to which individual 1ml increment best fits the numbers that the formula creates. It is simply rounded to the nearest ml. Compare the two charts more closely.

 

The original (erroneous) table was based upon just 1.25 tablets as your starting dose, when it should have been 2.25 tablets. because 2.25 tablets is a higher dose, then the taper increments are proportionately larger. Taper rates are relative to the dose being taken. Cuts decrease in size as the dose decreases.

[[si...]]

 

thank you so much colin for the clarification

[[br...]]

Hi Colin. Yes thanks so much for the clarification. Sorry for my ignorance.  Silver, yeah I have the fear of not being able to sleep as well because I know how ill I feel when I don't sleep and it puts addtional stress to my adrenal glands which are already burned out.  The most sleep I"m able to get is 5 hours and not straight through.

[[si...]]

i learned eventually to adjust to 5 hours - i used to be scarred that i would think and look crazy - but i cut myself slack because i was doing something very good for myself - getting off benzo's.

 

the pressures we put on our selves is one of the hardest parts of withdrawal - it fans fear - and we all have that to deal with - so it sounds like you are on course kinda.

[[br...]]

Thanks for the support, Silver 

[[br...]]

Ok. I think I"m going to start the titration schedule that Colin had made up for me. I had to postpone it for personal reasons but I think I'm ready to start today or tommorrow. I do have a question and forgive me  cause I tend to lack common sense at times 

 

Ok so I have 100 ml cylinder and the first pill I''m going to titrate is .25 mg but my pills are in .5 mg increments. My questions is do I dry cut the .5mg in half and then crush and titrate from the .25 mg tablet?  Just checking if that's what I'm suppose to do.  Also My cylinder is so long that I cant reach with my syringe and remove the amount needed. Do you just pour out a ml or 2 out of the cylinder by eyeballing it?  I'm just conerned it won't be as accurate as using a ml syringe to remove the ammount. This is probably a silly question but I'm wondering how everyone else is doing it.

[[Co...]]

Hi Brite,

 

What dose are you on? What size are your tablets? Are all your tablets the same dose (or do you mix and match doses to obtain your daily dose).

 

Our method assumes that you titrate one whole tablet, and the table will indicate how much of this solution you should drink. The additional tablets can be taken separately, or crushed and added to the amount of liquid you will be drinking for that day (you do not add them to to full volume of milk).

 

You can pour out some of the milk into a beaker, and then use the syringe to fine tune the dose left in cylinder returning some of the milk using the syringe. If you require just a small amount of the liquid for your dose that day, then use the syringe to draw up the amount you require from the beaker and use this instead of the liquid in the cylinder.

[[el...]]

Brite, just wanted you to know I posted a reply to your melatonin question on thes thread.

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=7242.new#new

[[br...]]

Hi Colin. Thanks for your response and your patience with me. Ok here is where I am rignt now. I have .5mg of Klonopin. I dry cut .5mg to .25 mg and take .25mg in the morning and afternoon. Then at night I take the full .5 mg of klonopin.

 

So you set up a schedule for me where I will be starting to titrate the .25 mg.  So are you saying that I should crush the .25mg tablet after dry cutting the .5 mg in half and drink the 23 ml in 100 ml cylinder? Or I crush the whole .5mg remove 27 ml of it from the cylinder?  It doesn't make a difference does it? Sorry for the confusion.

[[Co...]]

Hi It's late here, so I'll have to look at this again tomorrow.

 

The table is based upon a whole tablet being titrated - this does make a difference. Whole tablets are used for simplicity and accuracy. I'll look at your table tomorrow and get back to you.

[[br...]]

Hi Colin. I really need your help because I'm having a difficult time with the titration. This is my second day and it's really hard on me.  I'm still needing a little more clarification of my titration table.  Just to recap my doseage comes in .5 mg tablets.  I take .25 mg in the morning, .25mg in the afternnoon and .5 mg at night. I want to cut 10% per 14 days.

 

My titration schedule starts me on 24 ml, but should it be 49 ml instead because the .25 mg is half the dose of my tablets. If .5 mg is considered 100% of the dose and I would start tapering at 99 ml shouldn't the .25 mg start at 49 ml?  Could this be the reason why I am feeling so bad? I trying to understand the math so I'm sorry I keep asking questions.  You have no idea how much I appreciate your help.

[[Co...]]

Hi Brite,

 

OK, this is what I recommend (and frankly, it makes compiling the table far easier). Since you are taking two whole tablets per day, I will work up tablet that requires you to titrate one of these these tablets. I will have to recheck your details, but assuming you use a 100ml cylinder, you will work 100ml of the liquid each day (using one of the tablets), and remove liquid from the cylinder to leave the amount you should drink indicated by the table. You then add the second powdered tablet to this liquid. This means that you have liquid that contains all your dose for the day. You can divide this liquid into as many doses (and sizes) you wish over the day.

 

How does this sound?

[[br...]]

Hi Colin. Hmmmmm. I think if it's not too much trouble I prefer to titrate just one tablet at a time. This means first the .25 mg which is the morning does and then keep the .25 mg afternoon and .5mg dose as a dry tablet  until I'm done with the titration of the first tablet. Then continue titrating the second .25 mg until I'm done with that and so on. I was just wondering about whether I was suppose to start the first titration at 49 ml instead of 24 ml with the .25 mg dose or am I mistaken?

[[si...]]

hi brite colin is in england so he may have gone to bed now - he will be back on tomorrow - someone else may be by to help you.

 

i hope you sleep well tonight.

[[Co...]]

Hi Colin. Hmmmmm. I think if it's not too much trouble I prefer to titrate just one tablet at a time. This means first the .25 mg which is the morning does and then keep the .25 mg afternoon and .5mg dose as a dry tablet  until I'm done with the titration of the first tablet. Then continue titrating the second .25 mg until I'm done with that and so on. I was just wondering about whether I was suppose to start the first titration at 49 ml instead of 24 ml with the .25 mg dose or am I mistaken?

 

Hi,

 

You would be 'titration' just one tablet at a time - I'm just suggesting a way to easily divide your daily dose, into whatever sizes you wish, over the whole day. If you prefer, don't powder the second tablet, and simply split into quarters and take them as you wish over the day.

 

If you are set on titrating just a portion of tablet, I can do this, but it will have to to wait until tomorrow. The Excel spreadsheet is not designed for this, so I will have to tweak it, and will need to double check it. Am I to produse a tablet to titrate a half or quarter tablet? Please note, it is not as accurate to titrate fractions of tablets, as it is impossible to divide them precisely.

 

If, on the other hand, you mean titrate one whole tablet, and split the liquid over two doses, we are already pretty much on the same page.

 

When would you like the taper plan to start?

[[Ta...]]

My titration schedule starts me on 24 ml, but should it be 49 ml instead because the .25 mg is half the dose of my tablets. If .5 mg is considered 100% of the dose and I would start tapering at 99 ml shouldn't the .25 mg start at 49 ml?  Could this be the reason why I am feeling so bad? 

 

Brite,

 

When the schedule was first made, you were taking .375 mg in am, then .25 mg and .5 mg in pm. That was the total of 1.125 mg or 2 and 1/4 tablet. So, the schedule starts with titrating the quarter of a tablet first (.125 mg), that's why it would be 24 (25) ml. After you drunk the liquid, you were still to take 2 full tablets, divided however you needed during the day.

I think that explains your questions about 24 ml. If you did this, the tapering would probably not be the cause of you feeling bad.

 

It seems that you are now down to 1 mg or 2 tablets total per day, right?

 

[[br...]]

Hi Colin sorry for the misunderstanding.  Ok I understand that I would use the whole .5mg tablet and crush that and place that in a 100 ml cylinder and then remove a certain amount, but since I'm currently on half that dose .25mg would I remove 51 ml of to start my titration at 49 ml instead of the 24 ml you had me on the previous schedule?  This is where my confusion lies.  

[[br...]]

Hi Tanya and Colin yeah sorry now I'm down to 1 mg taking the equivalent of 2 pills but in 3 dosages.  I cut the .5 mg in half and take .25 mg in the morning and .25mg in the afternoon. Then I take the whole .5 mg tablet at night.  So how would that change my titration schedule now? Am I correct that the first titration should now start at 49 ml instead of 24? I dont' get the math

 

My question is do I crush my .5mg tablet dissolve it in milk and top it off to 100 ml in the cylinder .Then do I remove 51 ml to have 49 ml left because isn't that going to be equal to 1/2 the .5mg dose minus 1 percent?  I'd like to reduce my .25 mg dosage by 1% every 5 out of 7 days?  Then my plan is to dry cut the afternoon dose to .25 mg and take the full .5mg night dose until I'm done with the morning taper. Next I will taper off the afternoon and I'm saving the night for last.  I want to start whenever you can complete the spreadsheet, Colin.  I'm really trying hard to understand this but I feel so dense about it.   

[[Co...]]

Hi Brite,

 

This is becoming very confused. You take two 0.5mg tablets per day, a total of 1mg - correct?

 

Is there any reason why you cannot take liquid over the whole day? If not, this makes things easier all round: both for me producing the table, and for you following it.

 

The reason for the strange starting amount for you before was that you were not taking a number of whole tablets per day: you were taking 2.25 tablets per day. Because the titration method titrates a whole tablet (not a quarter of a tablet), the first dose needed to reflect the three-quarters of a tablet that was not required. This means that you would take 25ml out of 100ml (a quarter of the liquid being equal to a quarter of a tablet), and the additional reduction of 1ml (down to 24ml) was your first cut. In your present situation, you are taking two whole tablets, and will titrate one of them. The starting point for the whole tablet is 100ml of course.

 

I don't understand your taper rate. Do you mean that you would like to reduce your dose 5% over one week? The spreadsheet automatically converts this to a daily rate.

[[br...]]

Ok so let me get this straight. You are saying that the .25 mg that I take in the morning and the .25 mg I take in afternoon which is half my .5 mg tablets should be combined into the .5mg dose then titrate that at a daily rate which comes out to 10% per 2 weeks.  Then I divide this titrated amount and take half in the morning and the other half in the afternoon?  I would store the milk with the klonopin in the fridge until it's time to drink the afternoon dose? I guess if this is the best way and it works for others we can do that. The taper rate is the standard sorry about the confusion on that. 

[[br...]]

Also how long can I store the klonopin in milk? It won't change the chemistry of the Klonopin if it's left in the milk for hours will it?  I say my second dose is afternnoon but it's acutally sort of more early evening.  I just didn't want to add to the confusion of how I take my doeses.  Then I take my nightime 3rd dose late at bedtime.  The reason I need to take the 2nd dose more towards the evening is because of my insomnia problem. Thanks for your help. I have been feeling really ill the last 2 days and couldn't sleep because I probably did the titration wrong starting at .24 ml when I'm now at a 1mg dose.

[[Co...]]

Hi Brite,

 

I'll get back to you tomorrow (I have a splitting headache right now), but just to say, benzos will keep fine in the milk. The limiting factor is how long the milk will keep!