Watch this, we don’t all heal Aston says right here in the video!!

[[Wi...]]

jaso - 

 

 

We all have to seek out the support that we find most helpful. I don't spend much time on BenzoBuddies now except in my blog.  the only thing that traps me is the fact that my brain and body do not function properly and that has nothing to do with this forum or indeed any other support group I have been a member of.  Even when very protracted the aim is to keep moving forward .. life does not standstill for anyone.  But for those who are stuck, it is good to have somewhere to be open about that without fear of upsetting others.

 

I am glad for anyone who finds the kind of support in this mess that helps them hang in there. We all have the same fears, and we express them in our own ways....

 

I used to be terrified of being 'protracted', because of the way it's portrayed on here. Now that I'm nearing that point, I realise that I can re-frame and define it for myself. I'm trying to heal in a way that I never could before, by getting to know my body, working on lifestyle issues, past trauma, deficiencies, mindset, etc. So...I won't be 'protracted.' I will be 'healing deeply and completely' - for as long as it takes. 

[[lo...]]

The OP is fear-mongering.  I pointed out in my posts that the information/video is not news and there's no hidden agenda by some members here to hide this information.  There are many here though who may be harmed by fearful posts like this for obvious reasons.  It's completely counter-productive to recovery just like the heal/no heal debate and the BB invented "protracted member" division.

 

Exactly.

 

About 'protracted members': some simply take longer to heal - recovery is individual. The term 'protracted withdrawal' is artificial; it creates an arbitrary division that scares many, encourages a 'trapped' and helpless mindset, and stigmatizes others. Everyone, including those who take longer to heal, needs support and encouragement. Labelling/division is not conducive to recovery.

 

The protracted section allows protracted members to discuss openly their experiences without fear of upsetting those who are in the early stages, I for one am grateful for this section of the forum.  It is hard enough to be open about what is happening because of fear of being judged negatively.

 

It's not "protecting" you from judgement.  That's silly IMO.  People are going to judge you regardless of that label and I would argue even more so because of it.  It's a disservice to both "sides".  Re "upsetting those who are in the early stages," that's not happening either.  Certainly not as evidenced by this thread.  This is moving away from the topic of fear-mongering though.  I won't comment on it further here.

 

If people choose to judge that is their problem and not mine.  You are right people judge others all the time about anything and everything, it is a very common human failing. But I feel more comfortable expressing my views in the protracted section and not in the rest of the forum.  I don't care too much about labels .. I am over 6 years off the drugs, labels are irrelevant.  As for upsetting others I have been a member here for 5 years now and I speak of other discussions about this subject and not about this particular thread.

[[lo...]]

jaso - 

 

 

We all have to seek out the support that we find most helpful. I don't spend much time on BenzoBuddies now except in my blog.  the only thing that traps me is the fact that my brain and body do not function properly and that has nothing to do with this forum or indeed any other support group I have been a member of.  Even when very protracted the aim is to keep moving forward .. life does not standstill for anyone.  But for those who are stuck, it is good to have somewhere to be open about that without fear of upsetting others.

 

I am glad for anyone who finds the kind of support in this mess that helps them hang in there. We all have the same fears, and we express them in our own ways....

 

I used to be terrified of being 'protracted', because of the way it's portrayed on here. Now that I'm nearing that point, I realise that I can re-frame and define it for myself. I'm trying to heal in a way that I never could before, by getting to know my body, working on lifestyle issues, past trauma, deficiencies, mindset, etc. So...I won't be 'protracted.' I will be 'healing deeply and completely' - for as long as it takes. 

 

I was nearly protracted when I joined the forum, I had been too sick to use a computer for the first 14 months so I have no experience really of being anywhere else than the protracted section and cannot comment on what it is like to be here in the early stages of the process.  I had to cope with that alone.  I was never afraid of being protracted, just hoped like everyone else I would recover by 2 or maybe 3 years.  It didn't happen.  Such is life. 

[[Te...]]

The power of your mind is incredible! We do heal we all heal!!! If somebody’s left with the few symptoms that are minor nobody even wants to talk about it because it means nothing! But the worst of the worst gets better and you have to keep instilling that in your mind no matter what!!! Say she got better I’m getting better she did it I’m doing it! He did it and got through all of that I’m going to do it start training your brain to heal and watch how fast you start feeling better you will start getting bigger windows and you’ll start realizing the true you is in there ! I promise you the power of your mind is absolutely incredible and you will heal remind yourself daily constantly ! ❤️

 

~ J

 

I believe absolutely in the power of the mind - and THANK YOU for your contribution, jaso! I am certainly feeling that much healing is taking place. From where I came from, it is indeed amazing how the body and brain heal. 

[[Fl...]]

Having said that, I think the evidence is very clear that everyone does heal to a great extent, if not 100%.

 

This is really all that needs to be said.

[[Fl...]]

To say someone doesn’t heal only because of pre-existing conditions they already had is an impossible assessment to make.

 

This is just an easy and convenient way to justify ongoing symptoms. Of course there is some truth to the idea but many of us are experiencing classic benzo neurological damage type symptoms that wouldn't even be on the radar of someone with garden variety anxiety or depression.

[[Ne...]]

What does protracted mean ? I don't understand ?

 

thanks

[[mo...]]

To say someone doesn’t heal only because of pre-existing conditions they already had is an impossible assessment to make.

 

This is just an easy and convenient way to justify ongoing symptoms. Of course there is some truth to the idea but many of us are experiencing classic benzo neurological damage type symptoms that wouldn't even be on the radar of someone with garden variety anxiety or depression.

 

Yes, I agree with this. Benzodiazepine withdrawal symptoms are unmatched by anything else I have ever heard of, experienced or seen.

 

I have government health insurance and I use county mental health, and I am not qualified to receive services any longer because my Dr. (PDOC) there and caseworker both agree that I am not mentally ill and am only experiencing withdrawal and PTSD. They are both very intelligent, thoughtful men and I can see in their eyes and body language and also know by what they've said in our interactions that they are worn out and exhausted by their positions in the medical/mental health care field. But they are trying to help, without outing themselves and getting themselves fired or worse because of the things they know about the corruption in their profession. I am entirely certain of my assessment of this due to my many interactions with them in the past. I even called my caseworker recently to ask him something, and he said that he thought I'd be working and have a full life and be married by now. He was sort of playing, but not really. He actually meant it. Pretty frustrating. I am now out of their system and can't be accepted back.

 

I believe benzodiazepines are carcinogenic and caused cancer and other hormonal and immune system related issues for me.

 

I have canceled all appointments and will not reschedule with my oncologist, because he will not recognize the fact that there is evidence that this may have been what has occurred. All those appointments do is stress my system out further, take up valuable time and exhaust me. There is also the potential that the scans they run are harmful to health. There are also studies to support this.

 

Right now I am trying to make an appointment with an optomitrist for hightened photosensitivity as a result of benzodiazepines. It's extreme. It drives me into massive waves, it's nearly unbearable and causes me to feel and act like I have lost my sanity. Hard to work on myself, or even excercise or eat properly because of how much of an assault sunlight is. It is like ice picks in my brain and it causes panic, dehydration, insomnia and even psychosis. It causes so much physical pain, it causes intense muscle contraction and stiffness. It's like being electrocuted--in a way.

 

I don't agree that the other brief quote you just posted from redevan, is really all there is to say about all of it though. I feel this discussion is important, all aspects and sides of it.

 

[[Fl...]]

That's why some on here have started their own, more positive threads for those, say, 18-30 months out and still in recovery. Even though I'm almost 'protracted' (a term I disagree with), I won't be posting on the 'protracted' board - I much prefer the tone of others where the focus is on moving forward.

 

Many of us post on the protracted board not because we wish to be separated but because once you get to a certain point the group starts to reject you.

 

In a way it is understandable- no one wants to believe that this can last for a long time, but it's still wrong for people to turn their backs on people who have had to deal with this for years on end.

[[Wi...]]

FG, I agree completely that turning one's back on those who take longer to heal, is sad and wrong. It comes from a place of fear - we all feel it, and we need to recognize it in ourselves and resist acting on it.

 

Having said that, I've often been warned about the tone of many posts in the 'protracted' section. I've not found that to be the case with some of the other threads by technically 'protracted' folks - ones started by Sofa, for example - despite the fact that these people have also been at it a long time.

[[lo...]]

What does protracted mean ? I don't understand ?

 

thanks

 

It just means that people have been off the drugs 18 months or longer, that is all.  There is a separate protracted board which people can join if they wish.

[[...]]

I think the "tone" in protracted is to be expected.  After x amount of time deep in the trenches, one becomes extremely battle weary and disillusioned, and despair often runs rife.  Making the protracted board subscription only was the decision of the Team.  I believe at the time most protracted members disagreed with this decision.  I was one of the few who didn't disagree with it, in fact, if I had my way I'd have made it "by approval only" for various reasons, some for the benefit of protracted and some for the benefit of non-protracted.

 

Sofaking claims she is now fully recovered and prior to that for many, many months (years?) she's only been dealing with very rare two second blips so come on ...

 

 

I wish you peace, my friend.  I have completely recovered and, now that I can look back on the whole experience in my rear view mirror, my entire journey unfolded exactly as my initial post described the Four Phases.  If it hasn’t applied to your journey is there some reason you think it can’t possibly apply to others? 

 

[[Wi...]]

I think the "tone" in protracted is to be expected.  After x amount of time deep in the trenches, one becomes extremely battle weary and disillusioned, and despair often runs rife.  Making the protracted board subscription only was the decision of the Team. [...]

 

Sofaking claims she is now fully recovered and prior to that for many, many months (years?) she's only been dealing with very rare two second blips so come on ...

 

 

Those who join the 'protracted' section are, of course, free to express themselves there as they wish, seeing that it's subscription only. This thread, however, appears on the open forum....

 

As for the tone - I was literally disabled in 'protracted' AD withdrawal for more than 7 years...so yes, I know all about being in the trenches and despairing. And I stand by my post that mindset matters, mindfulness towards others matters - especially on an open forum.

 

Sofa's approach has always been encouraging (at least from the many threads I've read), as much as possible avoiding scaring others - even when she herself was still struggling badly, well into 'protracted' ('rare two second blips' - wow, way to go, minimizing someone else's extended withdrawal experience). I can name several others in 'protracted' of whom I can say the same. These are the folks that keep me going (in answer to the question in your signature about the difference a single person can make...).

 

I will step off this thread now - it's a waste of energy that could be better spent on more constructive things.

[[Te...]]

Give me one good reason why we should take the time of day to listen to THOSE WHO AREN'T HEALED say that you can't heal from benzos when we have many people writing their success stories. And a lot of people don't come back, for whatever reason, to say that they've healed.

 

I believe that, had Ashton done her studies today, she would have a different conclusion: The brain and body take a long time to heal, and saying that we don't all heal would NOT be valid.

 

Do you think she tracked people who were 5-10 years out? I doubt it seriously. I don't recall when she stopped tracking people, at what stage in their recovery, but for those of us who take quite a long time, we have to have faith in those who have come before us and who have survived and thrived. I've certainly had to go back and read success stories to give me some kind of faith to hang on to because once you get over a certain amount of years, yes, this is really tough. You need lots of resilience. And of course we don't want people to say "you can't heal." What's the point, then, of going on?

 

But since I can feel healing happening and can feel my anxiety lessening, that's all I need now to know that healing DOES happen. Never would I have thought before that my intense adrenaline surges and many ER visits and hospital stays would lead to healing. But it does.

 

 

[[no...]]

Not quite. She says we need to do more research.  She’s not God BTW.  And your post... this isn’t hidden information.

 

And anyway, what are you doing??  Why don’t you just go back on the medication or admit yourself for further evaluation or whatever you think will help?  I don’t see the point of your specific post here other than to scare others?  Do you want validation for what you’re going through or someone to talk you away from the idea you won’t get better?  Seems like it’s just fear mongering to me.

 

 

also..16 months out doesn't always mean your body has had enough time to heal.  but yeah i agree with Seltzerer, it sounds awfully lot like you're looking to denigrate this place of support, like you're trying hard to say "see! i got proof! yall are worng! we don't heal!" etc. maybe you're over-reacting. we all do that sometimes but, thewre's a nicer way to say what  you have to say than the way you just did.

[[no...]]

I think one of the only ways to not get better is to seek out things to convince yourself you won’t. Why not seek out things to convince yourself you will instead? The brain is powerful.

 

[[no...]]

We all heal and I see no point of this post other than to try and convince yourself this is permanent or scare other people which I don't appreciate. Even at my worst I never posted stuff like this. I am 27 months off and finally starting to have some good days, I went line dancing last night! On Sunday I went to a bbq two and a half hours away and socialized for hours. At 16 months I was a shell of myself, literally terrified, bedbound, housebound, couldn't even go grocery shopping, I saw no true improvement until around the two year mark and I still have some healing to do. You are going to be ok you just need to distract yourself as much as you can and stay busy mentally doing things and be patient, Dr Wright a famous benzo specialist in Canada whom a few of my friends on here have seen has treated thousands of patients over the years and says true healing happens between 36 months-42 months and you are nowhere near that yet so hang on you're going to be ok

 

what a success story you are! line dancing!! socializing with people in real life in public at a bbq!! i dream of doing stuff like that, well, maybe vegan chili and a sweet potato instead of bbq lol but still! congrats to you!

[[no...]]

Some people do heal before the 36-42 month mark, it depends on how long you were on them and the dosage. You get better and better that time frame is to be 100% no setbacks no sensitivities life back to normal. I know when I was only 12 months or 16 months out that timeframe quite literally made me want to kill myself because I couldn’t imagine doing this one more day, I didn’t believe in healing anymore but I do now, I’m 75-80% better now and things will keep improving. It sucks it takes this long but we all do heal and I’ve accepted that now, fighting against a time frame doesn’t do anybody any good you just have to be patient. I lost everything from withdrawal, in severe debt, the respect of my family and friends and the ability to have a normal life; it sucks but what else can we do but hold on, I’m not going to take more poisonous crap or try to search for more reasons as to why I’m sick. It’s benzos, none of these symptoms were here before benzos so they have to go

 

[[ka...]]

I want you all to heal but I've already had my hell I want a little peace If I find another person dead I'm outta here I've lost to many to much If I wrote a book you'd all think it was fiction Just want to be positive and live 

[[no...]]

I see no evidence of anyone being 'abusive' or 'shaming'. Members are entitled to point out that they find a post unhelpful and needlessly upsetting when trying to focus on the reason they're here: recovery.

 

Sure, the jury is out on everyone healing '100%'. Withdrawal causes massive stress to the body and mind. Any huge, long-term stressor will create some major biochemical imbalances in the body. In most cases, the body seems to overcome these naturally, in time. In a small minority of cases, the body might need some help to re-balance/heal more - this is not evidence of permanent 'benzo damage'.

 

It's risky and inaccurate to assume that all, or even most, remaining symptoms are down to 'damage from benzos'.... Just because you were asymptomatic before withdrawal, does not mean you were healthy and without sub-clinical imbalances - which the biochemical stress of benzo use and withdrawal would certainly have amplified and unmasked.

 

There are obviously many underlying variables (pre-existing imbalances/deficiencies, unresolved traumas, lifestyle stressors, other medications, etc.) you'd need to account for 'scientifically' before stating that any or all remaining symptoms are down to 'benzo damage'.... That's logical and scientific.

 

But considering that, statistically, the vast majority of people do go on to live enjoyable lives - well, to me that's enough reason to focus on hope. That's not 'pretending there's no problem' - it's acknowledging that the problem will almost certainly improve enough that I will be functional, happy and (mostly) healed. And definitely much stronger, wiser, and more appreciative of every little thing in my life.

 

It's interesting that the posters of many 100%-success stories all say the same thing: at some point, it's best to stay off BB, as it's not conducive to healing. Some of these posters took a few years to heal, and yet you can see from their very limited number of posts that they mostly stayed away from this forum....

 

Yes, I will almost certainly heal enough to live a full, meaningful life. I work hard to support my mind and body, in ways that make sense to me. (Your approach might be different.) No, I'm not denying the challenges or my fears - I admit I'm scared sh*tless, like everyone else. I'm not 'whistling past the graveyard', or 'trying to wish myself well'. I can't choose my current circumstances or the rate of my healing, but I can choose my actions and what I focus on. I choose to focus on healing.

wow thanks wildflower!

worded very eloquently and comprehensively.

i was gonna try to say this stuff but you said it so perfectly, there's no reason to try to improve on it hah! can't improve on perfection

 

"whistling past the graveyard"..well i guess redevan may be right on the fact that everybody'sscared (that means the majority of us here now who aren't finished with the healing process) that we might not heal but the facts support us healing if we put it in our minds to do so. who beats their cancer diagnosis/prognosis? the ones who know they will. who doesn't? the ones who believe they cant. i see this drug damage as the same as cancer as far as our mind set and out outlook or prognosis. for sure we got iatrogenic illness. but not written in stone does it say we cannot heal.

[[no...]]

The power of your mind is incredible! We do heal we all heal!!! If somebody’s left with the few symptoms that are minor nobody even wants to talk about it because it means nothing! But the worst of the worst gets better and you have to keep instilling that in your mind no matter what!!! Say she got better I’m getting better she did it I’m doing it! He did it and got through all of that I’m going to do it start training your brain to heal and watch how fast you start feeling better you will start getting bigger windows and you’ll start realizing the true you is in there ! I promise you the power of your mind is absolutely incredible and you will heal remind yourself daily constantly ! ❤️

 

~ J

 

yes. frikkin aye! YES!!

[[no...]]

jaso - 

 

 

We all have to seek out the support that we find most helpful. I don't spend much time on BenzoBuddies now except in my blog.  the only thing that traps me is the fact that my brain and body do not function properly and that has nothing to do with this forum or indeed any other support group I have been a member of.  Even when very protracted the aim is to keep moving forward .. life does not standstill for anyone.  But for those who are stuck, it is good to have somewhere to be open about that without fear of upsetting others.

 

I am glad for anyone who finds the kind of support in this mess that helps them hang in there. We all have the same fears, and we express them in our own ways....

 

I used to be terrified of being 'protracted', because of the way it's portrayed on here. Now that I'm nearing that point, I realise that I can re-frame and define it for myself. I'm trying to heal in a way that I never could before, by getting to know my body, working on lifestyle issues, past trauma, deficiencies, mindset, etc. So...I won't be 'protracted.' I will be 'healing deeply and completely' - for as long as it takes. 

 

this is so good...i'm stealing it!

[[ja...]]

The power of your mind is incredible! We do heal we all heal!!! If somebody’s left with the few symptoms that are minor nobody even wants to talk about it because it means nothing! But the worst of the worst gets better and you have to keep instilling that in your mind no matter what!!! Say she got better I’m getting better she did it I’m doing it! He did it and got through all of that I’m going to do it start training your brain to heal and watch how fast you start feeling better you will start getting bigger windows and you’ll start realizing the true you is in there ! I promise you the power of your mind is absolutely incredible and you will heal remind yourself daily constantly ! ❤️

 

~ J

 

yes. frikkin aye! YES!!

❤️❤️❤️

[[ja...]]

The power of your mind is incredible! We do heal we all heal!!! If somebody’s left with the few symptoms that are minor nobody even wants to talk about it because it means nothing! But the worst of the worst gets better and you have to keep instilling that in your mind no matter what!!! Say she got better I’m getting better she did it I’m doing it! He did it and got through all of that I’m going to do it start training your brain to heal and watch how fast you start feeling better you will start getting bigger windows and you’ll start realizing the true you is in there ! I promise you the power of your mind is absolutely incredible and you will heal remind yourself daily constantly ! ❤️

 

~ J

 

I believe absolutely in the power of the mind - and THANK YOU for your contribution, jaso! I am certainly feeling that much healing is taking place. From where I came from, it is indeed amazing how the body and brain heal. 

oh thank you!!! ❤️

That’s wonderful you are a Warrior!!!!!

[[...]]

I think the "tone" in protracted is to be expected.  After x amount of time deep in the trenches, one becomes extremely battle weary and disillusioned, and despair often runs rife.  Making the protracted board subscription only was the decision of the Team. [...]

 

Sofaking claims she is now fully recovered and prior to that for many, many months (years?) she's only been dealing with very rare two second blips so come on ...

 

 

Those who join the 'protracted' section are, of course, free to express themselves there as they wish, seeing that it's subscription only. This thread, however, appears on the open forum....

 

As for the tone - I was literally disabled in 'protracted' AD withdrawal for more than 7 years...so yes, I know all about being in the trenches and despairing. And I stand by my post that mindset matters, mindfulness towards others matters - especially on an open forum.

 

Sofa's approach has always been encouraging (at least from the many threads I've read), as much as possible avoiding scaring others - even when she herself was still struggling badly, well into 'protracted' ('rare two second blips' - wow, way to go, minimizing someone else's extended withdrawal experience). I can name several others in 'protracted' of whom I can say the same. These are the folks that keep me going (in answer to the question in your signature about the difference a single person can make...).

 

I will step off this thread now - it's a waste of energy that could be better spent on more constructive things.

 

Yes, of course I agree "that mindset matters, mindfulness towards others matters - especially on an open forum".  Very much so, which is why you'll very rarely see me discussing my own symptoms on the open board and if/when I do, it's always very important for me to point out that I have very strong and very legitimate doubts as to whether my remaining symptoms are in any way, shape or form, related to my benzo use at all.  What I'm advocating for is honesty as the best policy.  There are many ways to be positive, optimistic, and encouraging, without resorting to blatant dishonesty.  As examples, see posts such as from Redevan, and also yours: There are obviously many underlying variables (pre-existing imbalances/deficiencies, unresolved traumas, lifestyle stressors, other medications, etc.) you'd need to account for 'scientifically' before stating that any or all remaining symptoms are down to 'benzo damage'.

 

That's my stand on this topic of "permanence".  There are no guarantees in life with *anything*, this "everybody heals" mantra is childish and irresponsible, IMO, and I think, from the get-go, everyone deserves to be treated and spoken to as the semi-intelligent adults we all are.  Not only would it put an end to these types of sensationalist threads (they're not going away any time soon), but I think it would give people a very rational and balanced perspective of the nature of "benzo withdrawal".

 

 

 

Sofa's approach has always been encouraging (at least from the many threads I've read), as much as possible avoiding scaring others - even when she herself was still struggling badly, well into 'protracted' ('rare two second blips' - wow, way to go, minimizing someone else's extended withdrawal experience). I can name several others in 'protracted' of whom I can say the same. These are the folks that keep me going (in answer to the question in your signature about the difference a single person can make...).

 

I will step off this thread now - it's a waste of energy that could be better spent on more constructive things.

 

To clarify.  I was quoting Sofaking verbatem, sorry for the confusion, see below:

 

 

WHERE I AM TODAY...

Little blips and spurts of maybe two little things that last for 2 seconds and only occur once in a great while.

 

That’s it.  That’s how much my body has healed.  If most people walked in my shoes, they would have considered themselves healed long ago.  Not me.  Come hell or high water, I’m not going to claim victory until every last damn symptom is GONE FOR GOOD.  Not one frigging symptom left.  100% recovered. 

 

Success stories are all relative.  Some people claim victory when the bulk of the nightmare is over.  Others write them when they are in an extended window.  Still others, like me, will wait until there is nothing left—AND I MEAN NOTHING.

 

I just want you all to know how miraculous our bodies are.  They can take us from utter chaos, suffering 24/7, to a few blips and spurts every so often that are barely noticeable. 

 

This is what’s happening to you.  Your body is healing you ever day.  These pills don’t cause permanent damage.  They cause a temporary imbalance that your body will correct completely in time.  Look where I was and where I am today. I’m pretty much healed...a couple of furballs pop up rarely and last for 2 seconds.  Wow.  Unbelievable.