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Not sure if I should taper further feeling pathetic about all this


[Ta...]

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This is my first post on here so apologies for emptying out all that seems to be going on in my crazy head.

 

Have been on Ativan for 10 years (can’t remember dosage) before going to clonazepam for a further 8 years on 4, .5mg tablet at nite and 2 in the morning , I have also been on imipramine for 8 years and have been diagnosed as major depressive.

 

I have had my fair share of life upsets, being maliciously sued by some business partners who said they just wanted to see myself and my wife broken, been beaten unconscious by security guards f or the hell of it with my wife watching and even beaten up by police who then claimed I assaulted them.. and more so its been a life with a lot to deal with...

 

I decided last year to quit my meds and with my doctor tapered off imipramine and all was good my intention was to also do the clonazepan later as I didnt think it would be difficult. I felt that while on all the drugs I wasnt me my clonazepan dose was continually being increased to deal with anxiety and didn’t want to finish my life propped up with drugs. In January this year I started to taper the Clonazepan (I had managed to cease the morning dose over the preceding year without any side effects) so started to drop half a tablet ( my doctor was involved but he nor I understand what I now do from reading here on slow tapering or going off the anti-depressants last !!).

 

By the end of February I was down to one .5mg Clonazepam and have stayed there till now.

 

I am getting professional help from a clinic who helps people taper but I am told my symptoms are unusual which I don’t believe. they seem to think I should be feeling a lot better than I do every appt. I have to rate how I feel about my quality of life personal relationships etc and I generally rate them between 2 and 4. They don’t seem to think I should be tapering till I am at a 7 or feeling reasonable.

 

I have the usual, constant anxiety, stomach churning, heart palpitations inability to sleep i.e sleep then wake then sleep etc  just don’t want to get out of bed. I feel like my life is over , I constantly think about all thats happened to me and what its all lead to and how useless my life has been and now its all over there is no time left I have thought about ending it and how in detail but to be honest I doubt I will ever actually go there I think my life instincts for preservation are too strong. Although up until Feb I used to do a lot of walking I am experiencing sore knees all day, sore elbows and left hip discomfort, feels like the old body is packing up. Sometimes I think I am going insane my bran wont stop and unless I try to control it I can get carried away with how bad the future is we have no savings, don’t own our house my wife works to pay off debt we incurred from an old business we refused to put into receivership and decided we would borrow money to pay our debts.

 

I dont have a job although worked last week for a day which really boosted my confidence, I was able to contribute and enjoyed mixing with other people. I have no friends seems people dont like listening to people going thru stuff and have almost no social involvement I have to push to leave the house but I can do it. My wife struggles to cope and I hate how my trouble affects her, if she left me that would truly be the end as I love her dearly. My daughter 17yr doesn’t understand my anger and irritability ( and I am not happy about it but apologies don’t matter to her) and she is now going to leave home to get away from me which has made my wife and myself distraught, it doesn’t seem what I do I am causing pain to the people I love most.

 

My counsellor says I should be exercising 4 times a week but I have to push myself to do it which creates more stress and with my knees I don’t know if the exercise is causing more harm than good. Thinking I need to be doing stuff and pushing myself to do it seems to create more anxiety and the benefits seem very short lived.

 

I feel hopelessly lost no one I talk to seems to understand all this even the counsellor doesn't seem to understand the symptoms he wants me to have a medication review and maybe up the clonazepam which I am against. I know from reading here I should not have come off the antidepressants first but I dont want to go back and to be honest I don’t feel depressed if I wasn’t so anxious I am sure I would be heaps better.

 

Last year I walked  3 Caminos in Spain over 1000KM I felt strong now I am just a mental an physical mess and I feel like lifes over there is no future worthwhile, but I know staying on the benzo’s was no option with the ever increasing doses I just don’t get how the psychiatrist’s think they are good.

 

I dont think I cant get past all this until I am totally off the clonazepam and even then given I have had Ativan and clonazepan for 18 years will I ever be normal or somewhat anxiety free.

 

I am going to get a liquid  clonazepam and start the 10% taper every 2 weeks working with my counsellor. Does that sound like a good idea? I so want to be off this stuff and start the road to recovery.

 

I only recently discovered this forum but its helped me think maybe my symptoms are normal and maybe I can get better once I am off the clonazepam or maybe I will suffer some symptoms for however many years I have left. My apologies for such a long post I just dont have anyone to talk to about all this stuff sessions with my counsellor are limited to how I am going and when to taper not much of a counsellor really I am thinking of seeing a psychologist just so I can talk about all this.

 

Appreciate peoples views on the taper given my counsellor things I should be a lot better before tapering further.

 

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I'm hoping that someone with more knowledge and experience than myself will chime in to offer support Talisker. 

 

Difficult to tease out what is depression, and what is withdrawal.  The symptoms you describe can be seen in withdrawal.  But also seen in depression. 

 

You say you have been diagnosed with major depression, which makes me reluctant to offer much in terms of advice.  I lack the skills.

 

Just want you to know that you will be understood here, and hope you continue to return.  Many, with greater skill than myself will be able to assist. 

 

Important not to rush things, Talisker. 

 

Welcome. 

 

Dee

 

 

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Welcome Talisker...

 

Im glad you found us too, this is too much to bear on ones own...

 

Have to run, but didnt want to read and not say Hi...

 

I think Dee summed things up taper wise, simply, but well..  -This isnt usually one to rush...

Your body should let you know what is the right speed, and with a bit of adjusting, you will get there...

 

Much of what you describe feeling seems very benzo and withdrawl like to me...

 

Wishing you better days...

:)

 

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Hi, just saying hello there.

 

I don't know what to say, but AD withdrawal can be brutal, too.  I don't know what is what with you (or for me!!).

 

Hate these drugs but I also wonder why not stay on if they do help (which I don't know if they do).  But no, escalating a lot is not so good... I wonder if the site Surviving Antidepressants would be useful?  I have always meant to check it out.  But am not suggesting to be anti-med since you were diagnosed with major depression.

 

Sorry don't have a lot to offer!

 

Welcome.

 

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I’ve had 2 doctors recommend swimming I/o walking as less stress in the pool. Also listen to guided meditations on YouTube for negative thinking, positive affirmations, insomnia, anxiety, intrusive thoughts. Have your counselor work with you to break negativity. Good luck!
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I think most of us can so relate to your post. I also feel like just giving up sometimes. I feel the same way about my body. It does feel like your body is just giving out. It helps to just come here and vent sometimes my friend.
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I completely understand where you are at.  I believe, based on my own previous experiences, that your physical pain is likely because you are not sleeping.  I have not been consistently on as long as you, was only PRN (about once per week) for many years until about 15 months ago.  In the last year, I was at one time up to 2 mg per day and have been at .5 since January.  Was on a PPI and coming off that over a month ago has caused me to have buzzing brain, dizziness, worsening anxiety, some akathasia, parasthesia, nauseated, some reflux issues.  It's hard to know what is what.....is this from just coming off the PPI, from anxiety (I know it's contributing) and will it settle, should I pick up and continue to taper now, or hold and hope it gets better.  I'm fearful of worsening symptoms or of them not getting better, which I know just adds to the problem.  I am having a hard time working because of this and I'm the breadwinner of 7 kids and husband (who homeschools them).  My concentration is terrible and it's hard to sit at a computer for long periods because of the restlessness.  I'm driving my husband crazy and I'm starting to get agitated a lot with my kids.  I truly wonder how we are going to get through this......but I'm starting to think the only way out of hell is to go through it. 

 

Is there a reason you do not want to be on the antidepressant?  Were you having major side effects with it?  I have major side effects from going up on SSRIs or I would increase mine as the doctor suggested.  However, for me, start up side effects are terrible, which is part of why I'm in this mess.  If the antidepressant will help you sleep, however, it may be worth it.  Have you tried anything different to help you get some sleep?  Trazadone perhaps (doesn't work for me).  That alone, if you can get more sleep, may help to ease a lot for you so you can do this, get through it. 

 

I do not believe a lot of doctors, psychologists, counselors believe all of the tolerance withdrawal symptoms.  I've gotten none to believe me but yet, I am finding them on all the benzo sites.  One psychiatric nurse practitioner believed me and told me just to go ahead and go off of them - I'm at a low enough dose, shouldn't be an issue.  BUT we know better! 

 

God bless you.  Hang in there. 

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Thanks everyone its great to have people somewhere to talk with I just don't have anyone here except my dear wife.

 

I honestly don't think my symptoms are depression related but maybe I am wrong there is so little known about the brain and all these mechanisms. The tricyclic AD I was was casuing some anxiety one of the reasons I was on a benzo and I just don't believe many people really need them not saying everyone but  I didn't feel at 100% on them hence I went off and while it wasn't great tapering off them it was nothing like getting of the benzo's.

 

Yesterday gave me some reassurance that was the case i.e

So I have some zopiclone ( I didn't realize till today it's related to benzos which makes me wonder why I was given them) and I haven't taken any in ages but I had a group walk to do Saturday and had to be up by 7am so wanted to make sure I had a nite of reasonable rest. I took one and had a great sleep yes I actually slept first time in a long time I woke up with no anxiety I walked all day had a great time , just lots of knee pain. Got home in the afternoon and was energised even happy I did stuff I havnt been able to put my mind too since last year I thought wow this was what I used to feel like its bloody great.

 

No clearly what happened was the sleeping tablet put paid to my anxiety in a similar way to an appropriate benzo dose would it kinda inferred that what I am feeling every day is down to the anxiety, the crazy thoughts, my life being over complete lack of ability to focus etc etc.

 

Maybe also the sleep helped.

 

Last nite however as it the sleeping meds got out of my system I was hit with severe anxiety couldn't sleep an back to the usual maybe worse. This morning its all back .

 

After all this I dont think starting to taper yet will be a good thing I am far from being stable on the dose I am in fact I aint very good I cant continue with a life I feel is pointless and worthless.

 

SO I either stay where I am in the hope things will get better and at some point I can taper further or I increase my dose back up to a point I have some kind of stability.  I am at a loss as to which path to take or who I can ask doctors seem to have no idea I dont think  trying to get of benzo's and being given zopiclone is a good idea it gave me one good day but with consequences.

 

I know everyones experince is differnet to so how do I answer the question of whether to wait on my current dose or incease??

 

Thanks for the idea on the trazodone I will see if my doctor will give me a script I do think if I could get better sleep it would help. I have had SSRI's yes the initial phase on them is shocking and I never felt great on them all these anti-depressants mess with neurotransmitters and as my psychiatrist said last year they dont understand what causes depression or why the meds work so I refuse to go back to so many unknowns.

 

I have read a lot that significant exercise at least 4 times a week boosts GABA in the short term (confirmed via MRI) and that it likely has some long term benefits , I loved long distance walking (hiking) but with my knees ( most likely anxiety induced inflammation) I can't do this anymore. If I can't get the anxiety down and the inflammation, as a result, I would get back to significant exercise it seems about the only way aside from ensuring you have good gut health to naturally assist rebuild neurotransmitters.

 

Thanks for the support an help if anyone can throw any light on my hold or increase benzo dilemma I would be grateful.

 

Kindest regards and best wishes to all.

raymond

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Minda depends if your goal is to get off med, or feel better..??

Seems a dose increase will make things better.. A decent hold may see slower improvements happen -to a point, -probably.. And to start tapering could well see some degree of an increase in symptoms..

Well thats my take on it.. Tapering is a juggle between symptom intensity and speed...

 

You may have to consider alternate forms of exercise.. -If your lucky enough to be able to manage exercise that is..

 

Im very glad you understand the complications of many additional meds, supplements, etc.. That may be a big help..

 

Sorry if I sound "short" -my head hurts, and im texting..

 

:)

 

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Completely understand your quandry.  Before you give up, maybe try to see if you can get something to help you sleep that could make a big difference (there are several options - the trazadone, small dose seroquel, gabapentin even).....then you could possibly slowly titrate down.  I'm pretty impressed with how far you have come.  I was feeling interdose w/d at 1.5 mg and then now, tolerance w/d at .5 for sure.  The meds also impact my cognition as well, though I know the depression itself is also a factor.
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Completely understand your quandry.  Before you give up, maybe try to see if you can get something to help you sleep that could make a big difference (there are several options - the trazadone, small dose seroquel, gabapentin even).....then you could possibly slowly titrate down.  I'm pretty impressed with how far you have come.  I was feeling interdose w/d at 1.5 mg and then now, tolerance w/d at .5 for sure.  The meds also impact my cognition as well, though I know the depression itself is also a factor.

WOW thanks for the compliment they are few and far between nowadays so I appreciate someone thinking I am doing well :-)

 

I am thinking of maybe trying CBD as it seems it can help with sleep and inflammation if I could get back to walking I could really start to exercise and that would likely be a great help. It does seem there are only two areas you can really rebuild your neurotransmitters and thats by ensuring your diet is 100%  seems either a ketogenic or paleo diet is "perhaps" the best and lots of regular exercise.

 

I cant swim tried lessons a few years ago an I struggle with it, last year I walked over 2000KM completing 3 Caminos in Spain ( had zero knee pain too). Now cutting the benzo's my walking aint so good due to the knee pain. Which with all the walking I had been doing has to be linked and must be due to inflammation.

 

If the CBd addresses the sleeping and joint pain maybe the exercise can get me to a stable point where I am at without going back up on clonazepam. What worrys me about increasing dose to try an get stable is what happens when I start to tolerate the dose I dont want to increase again....

 

Was truly amazed how I felt Saturday after the sleeping tablet Friday nite I seemed to view everything in a different light which really made me think most of my symptoms are one way or another related to the increase in anxiety from the clonazepam not due to any seperate depressive disorder. I felt motivated Saturday and so much more positive.

 

I will include the meds you suggested in my discussion with my doctor on CBD its only just got legalised in Australia so not sure how willing he will be to prescribe it.

 

Thanks for the help support and kind words.

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Just another thought......maybe if you do have to updose to stabilize, you could then start a more gradual titration back down (like DLMT).  For me, I don't even know if updosing would be helpful at this point.  I really feel like my whole CNS is just out of whack.  I've been off and on K several times over the years and that could be why, though I have had a fragile CNS for quite some time now.

 

Looking forward to hearing how you move forward.

 

God's blessings.

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Just another thought......maybe if you do have to updose to stabilize, you could then start a more gradual titration back down (like DLMT).  For me, I don't even know if updosing would be helpful at this point.  I really feel like my whole CNS is just out of whack.  I've been off and on K several times over the years and that could be why, though I have had a fragile CNS for quite some time now.

 

Looking forward to hearing how you move forward.

 

God's blessings.

Thank you for your comments, I am going to see if I can get something to help me sleep an hopefully to take down the inflammation in my knees so I can get back to walking (maybe CBD) failing that yes I am going to increase my dose by .25mg I did it 2  days ago and although my sleep wasn't better I did have feel a but better during the day. Its amazing how our thoughts change so much comming of these meds and we have to be careful that we understand the negativity lack of motivation is due to coming off the meds its not the way we need to always be. Unfortunately, my wife is having a hard time of being around my anxiety and she is struggling with it as is my daughter who at 17 cant understand why I just don't snap out of it and is saying she can't stand it and is going to leave home all this doesn't help. To see my anxiety ( even trying to breathe thru things) create issues with the people I love is difficult to take. I am very worried about my daughter, I am trying to get my wife to get some help and I am going to try an not confide in her so much. I love them both so much I honestly wonder whether I should have ever started to come off the benzo's or whether I should have waited till my daughter had left home in a year or so.

 

Anyway enough of that thanks again for your kind thoughts I so appreciate them.

Raymond

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It's definitely hard on our loved ones.  I haven't been on as long as you and knew it was a benzo and knew it was addictive and didn't intend to be on it regularly this long but it's happened and we are all trying to cope now.  I have so many regrets - trying to forgive myself and mentally build myself up.  I've had major depressive episodes before, going through hell, not sleeping for months and I just don't know that I can do that again.  But I know how terrible I feel now so can't stay in this "place" either.  Feels at times that the world is crumbling and it's been also hard on my husband mostly.  I'm trying to work through this, being the sole provider for my husband and our 7 kids.  Not sure if I can keep going but having 7 loud children in the house with me at all times if I quit isn't going to be a cake walk either. The medical issues going on have not made it easier. 

 

 

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This is my first post on here so apologies for emptying out all that seems to be going on in my crazy head.

 

Have been on Ativan for 10 years (can’t remember dosage) before going to clonazepam for a further 8 years on 4, .5mg tablet at nite and 2 in the morning , I have also been on imipramine for 8 years and have been diagnosed as major depressive.

 

I have had my fair share of life upsets, being maliciously sued by some business partners who said they just wanted to see myself and my wife broken, been beaten unconscious by security guards f or the hell of it with my wife watching and even beaten up by police who then claimed I assaulted them.. and more so its been a life with a lot to deal with...

 

I decided last year to quit my meds and with my doctor tapered off imipramine and all was good my intention was to also do the clonazepan later as I didnt think it would be difficult. I felt that while on all the drugs I wasnt me my clonazepan dose was continually being increased to deal with anxiety and didn’t want to finish my life propped up with drugs. In January this year I started to taper the Clonazepan (I had managed to cease the morning dose over the preceding year without any side effects) so started to drop half a tablet ( my doctor was involved but he nor I understand what I now do from reading here on slow tapering or going off the anti-depressants last !!).

 

By the end of February I was down to one .5mg Clonazepam and have stayed there till now.

 

I am getting professional help from a clinic who helps people taper but I am told my symptoms are unusual which I don’t believe. they seem to think I should be feeling a lot better than I do every appt. I have to rate how I feel about my quality of life personal relationships etc and I generally rate them between 2 and 4. They don’t seem to think I should be tapering till I am at a 7 or feeling reasonable.

 

I have the usual, constant anxiety, stomach churning, heart palpitations inability to sleep i.e sleep then wake then sleep etc  just don’t want to get out of bed. I feel like my life is over , I constantly think about all thats happened to me and what its all lead to and how useless my life has been and now its all over there is no time left I have thought about ending it and how in detail but to be honest I doubt I will ever actually go there I think my life instincts for preservation are too strong. Although up until Feb I used to do a lot of walking I am experiencing sore knees all day, sore elbows and left hip discomfort, feels like the old body is packing up. Sometimes I think I am going insane my bran wont stop and unless I try to control it I can get carried away with how bad the future is we have no savings, don’t own our house my wife works to pay off debt we incurred from an old business we refused to put into receivership and decided we would borrow money to pay our debts.

 

I dont have a job although worked last week for a day which really boosted my confidence, I was able to contribute and enjoyed mixing with other people. I have no friends seems people dont like listening to people going thru stuff and have almost no social involvement I have to push to leave the house but I can do it. My wife struggles to cope and I hate how my trouble affects her, if she left me that would truly be the end as I love her dearly. My daughter 17yr doesn’t understand my anger and irritability ( and I am not happy about it but apologies don’t matter to her) and she is now going to leave home to get away from me which has made my wife and myself distraught, it doesn’t seem what I do I am causing pain to the people I love most.

 

My counsellor says I should be exercising 4 times a week but I have to push myself to do it which creates more stress and with my knees I don’t know if the exercise is causing more harm than good. Thinking I need to be doing stuff and pushing myself to do it seems to create more anxiety and the benefits seem very short lived.

 

I feel hopelessly lost no one I talk to seems to understand all this even the counsellor doesn't seem to understand the symptoms he wants me to have a medication review and maybe up the clonazepam which I am against. I know from reading here I should not have come off the antidepressants first but I dont want to go back and to be honest I don’t feel depressed if I wasn’t so anxious I am sure I would be heaps better.

 

Last year I walked  3 Caminos in Spain over 1000KM I felt strong now I am just a mental an physical mess and I feel like lifes over there is no future worthwhile, but I know staying on the benzo’s was no option with the ever increasing doses I just don’t get how the psychiatrist’s think they are good.

 

I dont think I cant get past all this until I am totally off the clonazepam and even then given I have had Ativan and clonazepan for 18 years will I ever be normal or somewhat anxiety free.

 

I am going to get a liquid  clonazepam and start the 10% taper every 2 weeks working with my counsellor. Does that sound like a good idea? I so want to be off this stuff and start the road to recovery.

 

I only recently discovered this forum but its helped me think maybe my symptoms are normal and maybe I can get better once I am off the clonazepam or maybe I will suffer some symptoms for however many years I have left. My apologies for such a long post I just dont have anyone to talk to about all this stuff sessions with my counsellor are limited to how I am going and when to taper not much of a counsellor really I am thinking of seeing a psychologist just so I can talk about all this.

 

Appreciate peoples views on the taper given my counsellor things I should be a lot better before tapering further.

 

Your symptoms are totally normal, Talisker. Taper slowly, listen to your body, holding the dose whenever you feel bad, don't trust doctors / counselors too much, and distract yourself because this is a slow process. It'll be OK in the end  :hug:

 

Edit: I agree exercise is key to healing and staying functional during the process. But you'll probably need to do a softer kind of exercise like yoga or Pilates.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I get you Talisker.  I have your symptoms and more, and for long time.

 

I may yet updose to see if I get relief but think it be like you and the ambien, if at all...  sigh...

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Talisker,

After 18 years on benzos it's totally normal to develop depression. The same happened to me. Slowly, you start having difficulty in dealing with stress and then end up being diagnosed with depression and given antidepressants. This is the normal story of people on psychoactive drugs. A few more years and meds, we'd be also on antipsychotics or mood stabilizers as so many people here.

 

There is a wide range of symptoms we can get while tapering. But the rule of thumb is always the same: listen to your body and hold your dose when you don't feel well until you feel better. It's also important to not let people that don't understand the process complicate our life.

 

You seem to have tapered rather fast: From 1.5mg to 0.5mg in two months. I think you do well to not wanting to updose. It's been a long time since you are on 0.5mg and, so, updosing may mess up the process. I would continue doing what you are doing, holding the dose, and when I felt well enough, I would proceed as you planed, cutting 10% every two weeks.

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