Globe: "Do women ever respond differently than men to prescription drugs?..."

[[Rx...]]

Pardon my quirky writing above and below the quote above.  I can't edit.

 

Not that I take back either of what I wrote above or below the quote, but my editing privileges were taken away from me as I corrected myself too often according to Administration here, so I could not include both writings neatly in one spot.  Hopefully, I will not be admonished by a moderator for sharing such.  If I am banned for mentioning such truth, so be it, but I think that would be quite harsh of any moderator/admin.

 

Oh, another edit here... Hopefully, I will not be admonished by a moderator/admin for sharing such, I meant to write.  Anyhow, for the record, my edits never affected the integrity of any posts.  I just edited to appear neater, correct typos or writing errors.  I understand the rules and do not need them written to me again, but I hope Admin understands I think it is only fair that I should be able to correct myself in follow-up posts since editing privileges were taken away.

[[me...]]

Everyone, please calm down and take a step back.  We allow polite discussion here, but as anyone who has been a member for long knows, political arguments are not allowed.  So please, tone it down.

 

 

RxDamaged,

 

Removing a member's ability to edit posts is not something we do often or without reason.  The same is true when we suspend a member's pm priveledges. These penalties are rare, and we do not discuss them on the forum, so if you'd like to discuss your moderation issues with us, please start a Helpdesk ticket so it can be done in private.  If you continue to discuss this publicly, you risk being put on post moderation.

 

 

 

Pardon my quirky writing above and below the quote above.  I can't edit.

 

Not that I take back either of what I wrote above or below the quote, but my editing privileges were taken away from me as I corrected myself too often according to Administration here, so I could not include both writings neatly in one spot.  Hopefully, I will not be admonished by a moderator for sharing such.  If I am banned for mentioning such truth, so be it, but I think that would be quite harsh of any moderator/admin.

 

Oh, another edit here... Hopefully, I will not be admonished by a moderator/admin for sharing such, I meant to write.  Anyhow, for the record, my edits never affected the integrity of any posts.  I just edited to appear neater, correct typos or writing errors.  I understand the rules and do not need them written to me again, but I hope Admin understands I think it is only fair that I should be able to correct myself in follow-up posts since editing privileges were taken away.

[[ho...]]

To Diana 23 regarding your writings:

 

]Your opinions have nothing to do with facts and in no way support this discussion, but sound more like whiney gripes attacking equal rights.

 

This type of sexist thinking and denial of it being a problem is what caused this entire issue in the first place. You are part of the problem, and you are blind to it. I really don't care about your opinions, they are yours and you can have them, but you don't get to make up facts.

 

Further, I'm not going to sit here and say nothing, because I'm actually scientifically educated and have researched this issue for years and have factual evidence to back it up. Not just making broad generalizations to broadcast my opinions on women's rights being a political agenda...  and I'm not going to continue to respond to you because it's a waste of my time. You will never hear me.

 

The truth is that the reason women's biological differences were not included in founding medical research was not BECAUSE of the feminist movement, it didn't even exist yet. This is what you are implying and it's absolutely sexist bs. You are shifting the blame of the scientific bias off of sexism back to women and this is wrong of you. The truth is we were considered 'inferior test subjects' by men, and women weren't even allowed much entry into science as a profession at the time because of this type of sexism. Guess what, because of the equal rights movement, we are now, and so I know more than you do. But your comments and responses show me that your male privilege can't handle that.

 

Enough with the "rights and struggle argument." Other than you're a "new age feminist," and the rest of us are buffoons, I have no idea what you're trying to state about medical care.  The idea studies are male biased is sexism is a political viewpoint, which you are entitled to hold, but it doesn't alter data. Men are easier test subjects due to absence of estrogen influences. Pharmaceutical companies are profit driven machines who want more product in the marketplace. Easier to generate studies if all are male, and between 20-40yo. Many are college students or low income/ homeless people. Just as all of us have been victimized by poor over site with SSRIs, opioids, etc., now the trans folks are also being misinformed.  The FDA is supposed to evaluate claims unbiasedly, but it receives a large portion of its budget off the "new drug" application fees. Perhaps you should direct your rage at all the politicians who line their pockets with Pharma lobbyists' funds.  Follow the money. 

 

You wrote that you're "scientifically educated and have researched this issue for years" What are we discussing- women are better than men...they're different from men... a trans MtF is a woman?  You mix medical treatment up with rights. One is about physiology, the other is a legal definition.  Example: body dysmorphia can take many forms: A person who wants to amputate a limb because it's the source of all their psychological pain...a face surgery addict like MJ who destroyed his nose...a woman who has implants up to 45GGG breasts. Should anyone be allowed to continue to do surgery on these people just because they want it?  How are we evaluating what's OK?

 

Please provide a single article that supports the notion that treating someone who is biologically one sex with an overabundance of the opposite hormones doesn't cause physiological damages. We know it causes infertility short-term, we don't know about long term. Fact: Women (XX chromosome) have more estrogen receptors; an overabundance of estrogen, down regulates thyroid.  Thyroid acts on neuro receptors to soothe mood, and provide mental clarity.  What happens to the MtoF transgender's thyroid function due to the flood of estrogen?  Does anyone know?  An imbalance between estrogen and progesterone can have terrible effects on women like postpartum psychosis. What are the effects of testosterone on the FtM  long term? Could these interactions help to explain the astronomical suicide rates in transgenders? In Sweden where sex surgery has been performed for over 30yrs, a study was conducted on suicide prevalence in transgenders. The numbers were still at 40-55%, just like everywhere else.  It isn't society's opinion of them that drives this problem, it is internal.

 

Are you familiar with the Katoy of Thailand?  The parents are so poor in rural villages they not only sell daughters as young as 9yo into prostitution, but some give sons female hormones as young as age 5yo to turn them into "entertainers." These young men grow extremely tall for the average Thai because the estrogen prevents normal bone growth closure on the long bones. You can spot them a mile away as most are tall, and rail thin "girls". Most wind up in the sex trade, and suffer AIDS.  Many are now dying in their 40's and 50's of undiagnosed prostate cancer. Tell me again how giving puberty blocking hormones to 5 yo is scientifically sound.

 

You imply that anyone who disagrees with you is only doing so because they are "sexist', "misogynist," etc. Simple to label, isn't it. Believe or not, others can think differently from you...it's permitted.  Other than bad language on social media, etc. what actual steps are you doing to support others?  Do you roll up your sleeves in the muck and mire of real consequences:  Have you ever volunteered with a suicide hotline (real life or death situations)... an AIDS hospice(cleaning waste, vomit, etc)... gone to a women's prison (a den of mental illness and violence )? I'll wager not.  Fostering a kitten isn't quite the same thing.  Humans are infinitely complicated, and severe illness/death is a messy business. 

 

No one has ever said on this exchange that women or trans or homosexuals shouldn't receive appropriate medical care. What has been brought into question is denying someone's original birth sex in favor of an artificially created physiology due to the inherent biological differences. I've seen these practices for over 40 years. It harms the patient.  People have presented facts; you reject them, and then provide none.  You impugn others' character, yet inadvertently reveal your own. We can disagree, and still treat one another with compassion, and dignity.  Good luck with this "me versus them" attitude.

[[Rx...]]

No one has ever said on this exchange that women or trans or homosexuals shouldn't receive appropriate medical care. What has been brought into question is denying someone's original birth sex in favor of an artificially created physiology due to the inherent biological differences. I've seen these practices for over 40 years. It harms the patient.

 

I think it is important for society to question the safety.  I can't imagine what type of pain and longing someone must be going through to want to willingly become another sex as much as medically possible physiologically (or even wanting to willingly identify as another sex), as I can't relate being quite happy to be female as I am, but such people should be made aware of any and all great risks involved.

[[Ca...]]

It can be a hard one to understand from the outside looking in... From what I have seen with a Gender Identity Disorder (GID) teen, pre and post medication, they already strongly identify as the other gender, and to them their body was "wrong".. -and had been from a very early age..

On top of being deaf and mute, the GID added to significant social difficulties and self harm issues for this person...

But as best I can tell, the medication or hormone modulation, has had a huge and positive effect on their overall quality of life..

 

Not to make light of it, but it gave a whole new meaning to the term "hormonal teenager", and as sceptical as I was at times, there is no denying the benifits once medication was innitiated... I imagine this would vary per situation, and when certain "choices" are made...

In this instance, I doubt any future complications could outweigh those benifts, but that isnt to say there wont be some complications to possibly contend with at some point in life..

I just hope the medical community can stay on point and up to task should the need arise.. And this is where my doubts would lay... Bias drug testing surely wont help any...

 

Sorry if a bit off topic in some aspects.. More to just highlight an extra layer of medicine testing perametres and delicacy that can be needed in some instances.. -Ones that would be very absent in single gender dominant testing..

 

[[Rx...]]

Wow.  Well, this thread has been interesting.  Back to my life now.  Been off BB quite awhile before popping back in yesterday and today.  I appreciated reading fair, informative, and helpful comments and receiving some very nice words personally via blog comments and via pms yesterday.  I do read comments word for word from the horse's mouths here, therefore do not rely upon others' reactions towards others here.  I really enjoy the feature of being able to click on a poster's name to the left in orange lettering if I want to peruse all their posts.  Quite a nice feature for getting to know others here better quickly.

 

Re Megan's words to me, I myself used to be an admin of a forum.  My forum was technically able to handle endless edits from individual posters without any further issues, but if this forum is not technically set up to handle such without further issues, I understand.

 

Peace and love all.   

[Guest [di...]]

*Sorry moderator, certain things triggered me and set me off. I found that handy ignore button and I took down my posts and will no longer respond to that side discussion. It's an important topic.

 

I would guess women do react differently, but I don't know why. MY moment of recognition was almost 7 years ago when I stumbled upon a study called "Women on Benzos", written by a Canadian. His study detailed every single thing that happened to me while on benzos. Frequent falls, broken bones, social and job problems, legal troubles and more. Reading that meant so much to me, because I had assumed that I was doing something very wrong, and had not considered the tie with my 30 year addiction to benzos. Reading that was my very first step towards recovering from benzos and ADs. I am so glad I stuck it out.

east

 

Anyways, eastcaost62 that's fascinating I would love to read that one and I'll try to find it. There is also research by Dr. George Koob (whom I've met and know colleagues of, he was the one who proved chemical dependency was an actual physiological illness, none of us would be here without his work! And they're still mostly treating us like psychological addicts).

 

It showed that progesterone levels affect the the sedative property of benzos. In other words, our naturally fluctuating progesterone levels affect how well the meds work. I've noticed at this point that during my taper, I can track my exact waves and windows and symptoms directly by my hormonal cycles. Men have some progesterone too but obviously, much much less and it's different but I wonder about how that affects them as well. I've read tons of women's posts noting links to our hormonal cycle.

 

There is this link from the W-BAD website. https://w-bad.org/bzdsandwomen/ where they discuss that and other things:

 

"Progesterone, allopregnanolone and many of their metabolites were found to be cross-tolerant with benzodiazepines, so fluctuating levels of these naturally occurring biochemicals can make for a bumpy ride for women during a benzodiazepine taper and recovery process." I wonder how many of us make this connection.

 

And also importantly, "An understanding that progesterone is a GABAergic biochemical which can have a withdrawal syndrome similar to BWS should be known. Some women may prefer to taper when they discontinue progesterone therapy." I now know why I'm intolerant of any drugs with progesterone.

[[ea...]]

LOL!

I do have to laugh at your concern about spelling or punctuation. Are you a teacher of some sort? I doubt anyone noticed your tiny slip. I know I did not.

This is something a lot of us feel in wd. Overly worried or anxious we have done something wrong. I know this sort of stuff bothered me greatly a few years back. Now, I am just too old to worry about things like that. Benzos did age me as lot. And almost killed me.

Thank GOD they did not kill me.

east

[[La...]]

I agree and wish more was known about this. It seems to me that women seem to be hurt more by benzos than men.

I will never forget the day, almost 7 years ago, when I stumbled upon a study done by a Canadian doctor titled "Women and Benzos." In it she detailed the horrific things that can happen especially to women who take benzos. It was like reading my life's story: balance problems, falls, fractures, especially of the femur. Social and Legal problems. Trouble holding a job, trouble with relationships." ALL of that happened to me. And a lot more. That was my first enlightened moment in my journey off benzos, reading that study.

east

 

Hi eastcoast,

Was this the paper you were referring to?

 

http://bccewh.bc.ca/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/2003_Manufacturing-Addiction.pdf 

 

Manufacturing Addiction: The Over-Prescription of Benzodiazepines and Sleeping Pills to Women in Canada

 

Here's where I found it:

 

http://bccewh.bc.ca/2014/02/manufacturing-addiction-the-over-prescription-of-benzodiazepines-and-sleeping-pills-to-women-in-canada/

 

By the way, there's been LOTS of discussion around here about the difference between "addiction" and "dependence". In many cases, "dependence" is the more appropriate term to use. I'm not going to re-open that discussion here since it's been repeated numerous times. One needs only to do a search of BB to read further on the topic.

 

 

[Guest [Le...]]

Re Megan's words to me, I myself used to be an admin of a forum.  My forum was technically able to handle endless edits from individual posters without any further issues, but if this forum is not technically set up to handle such without further issues, I understand.

 

Peace and love all. 

 

Deleted as spamming:

Just had to pop back in because I should have written horses' mouths, not horse's mouths.  I don't judge others' punctuation errors, grammar errors, typos, spelling, or writing errors, just hard on myself and like to take pride in writing and presenting to the best of my ability.  Hopefully, my follow-up corrections do not annoy anyone.  If so, in defense of myself, I think there's much worse a person can do on a forum, so I hope I'm given a break by anyone perhaps annoyed.  I will do my best to proofread better before posting any further comments.  I do proof, but I miss things proofing sometimes.

 

RxDamaged, you have been repeatedly asked to stop litigating your loss of privileges on the open forum. Since you continue to air your grievances for all to see, then you can expect a response.

 

BenzoBuddies can of course handle edits. The problems occur when certain members repeatedly troll, accessorize with sock puppets, and then edit the trolling posts, for example (‘there’s much worse a person can do on a forum’). If you were actually a forum admin, then you would also know perfectly well that VPNs often ‘leak.’ Oops.

 

As Megan and the rest of us have explained many times, you (et al.) earned your collective loss of privileges. The continued snarky posting proclaiming your innocence further supports the rationale of not lifting the limitations.

 

You were also warned that if you did not let this alone you would be placed on Post Moderation.

 

Consider it done.

[Guest [di...]]

Thanks Lapis!

[[La...]]

My pleasure, diana23! I'm pretty sure that's the article that eastcoast is referring to. Maybe she'll jump back in here to confirm. 

[[Lo...]]

Men on Miltown

 

Tone, Andrea. The Age of Anxiety (p. 105). Basic Books. Kindle Edition.

 

The millions who found no reason to demur included women, children, and especially men: executives, athletes, doctors, and countless others who wanted to experience for themselves what the drug journalists and movie stars were raving about. Because anxiety was regarded as the root cause of many disorders (one psychiatrist suggested that “60 percent of all the patients who go to private physicians suffer not from organic diseases but from psychoneurotic conditions”), Miltown had a broad therapeutic range. Stress, anxiety, and tension were problems in their own right. But in the medical parlance of 1950s America they also explained disorders such as asthma, arthritis, bedwetting, colitis, dermatitis, headaches, insomnia, premenstrual tension, frigidity, and nymphomania.25 Partly for this reason, tranquilizers were used by overworked businessmen harried by office deadlines, virgin brides nervous about their honeymoons, petulant toddlers and teenagers, Americans fearful of nuclear annihilation, and a young farm housewife from Beaver Dam, Kentucky (population 1,349). Her peace pills, she said, gave her a coveted relaxed feeling in an era she considered to be “too fast.” Long before Ritalin was prescribed to children to treat hyperactivity and garrulous behavior, parents and pediatricians relied on tranquilizers to achieve the same result. A Palo Alto dentist used Miltown on children prone to fear or egregious hostility: the kind of kid who “wouldn’t think twice before biting off the dentist’s digit.” He instructed mothers to medicate aggressive children with Miltown an hour before the appointment. A Louisville truck driver, a self-professed “excitable type,” counted on Miltown to control the road rage he would experience whenever another driver cut in front of him. In the old days, he would retaliate: “cuss out the driver and perhaps run into his car.” But since he had been on Miltown, he had become a new man and a better driver: calmer, more controlled, and accident-free.26 This diversity in tranquilizer demography in the 1950s is an essential part of the Miltown story that has often been disregarded. The outpouring of critical newspaper and journal articles, television broadcasts, congressional investigations, and patient testimonials in the 1970s and 1980s encouraged many scholars to rewrite history according to a familiar heroes and villains narrative. Often the victims in this narrative of corporate greed and patient passivity are suburban housewives. “Mother’s little helpers,” wrote psychiatrist Peter Kramer in his important and acclaimed Listening to Prozac, were pills “popular and widely available in the fifties and early sixties that were used to keep women in their place, to make them comfortable in a setting that should have been uncomfortable, to encourage them to focus on tasks that did not matter.” Others have echoed this view, depicting tranquilizers as a medical technology hatched by men chiefly to pacify women—a less invasive but no less insidious measure of control than earlier “heroic” somatic treatments such as electroconvulsive therapy or lobotomy.27 A deeper look at the historical record shows that although a gendering of the tranquilizer market was clear by the late 1960s, when women accounted for two-thirds of the consumer market, it was not obvious to doctors, pharmaceutical executives, or patients in the 1950s. A focus on the overmedicated woman, an artifact of a different generation, has caused us to neglect how tranquilizers were initially marketed to and used by men. Pharmaceutical firms had no financial incentive to confine these drugs to women. Indeed, the surest path to profit was to position them as a panacea for all anxious Americans. In fact, at least in the beginning, tranquilizers were very much a man’s drug.28 Miltown’s fanatical following among businessmen in this decade earned it the nickname Executive Excedrin. Moreover, in popular and cultural representations, the picture of the typical user was male. In the Academy Award–winning film The Apartment, the male lead, C. C. “Bud” Baxter, a business associate in a New York office, takes prescription sedatives to ensure he is well rested for his day job. “How can I be efficient in the office if I don’t get enough sleep at night?” he asks. (The fact that Fran Kubelik, the emotionally distraught elevator operator, tries to overdose on Baxter’s pills does not detract from the fact that they were prescribed to Baxter and routinely used by him.) From the male patient’s perspective, there was no reason to feel embarrassed about taking tranquilizers or other prescription medicines. In the 1950s and beyond, the stigma of “mother’s little helper,” linking the feminization of prescription drug taking and societal decay, had not yet taken hold. In such a gender-neutral milieu, men remained avid users and often outspoken proponents, critical to stoking demand.

 

Tone, Andrea. The Age of Anxiety (pp. 105-107). Basic Books. Kindle Edition.